Does anybody have a Blue Orb user that can make offensive use of the rain? (Aside from Kyogre, obviously.) I mean, come on, the ability to completely neuter a Red Orb user is sweet, but that can't be all you can do with it.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Ladder Mix and Mega
- Thread starter Imperator Romanum
- Start date
Gyarados
So I checked all the Thunder abusers, and some noteable blue-orb users that can be offensive with things like Thunder while gaining a benefit from dodging Fire attacks are Rotom-Mow (Leaf Storm, Thunder, Coverage), and Galvantula (Only super effective damage taken from rock)
Some other Pokemon can abuse water coverage with Thunder or Hurricane too if you already have someone that uses Pidgeotite or something.
Hurricane abusers also include pokemon like Articuno, Shiftry, Whimsicott, Volcarona, Vivillon
Raikou @ Blue Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Weather Ball
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Calm Mind
So I just thought of this when battling someone and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it before, but Scizorite Infernape could be somewhat viable
Look at all these moves he can use: Mach Punch, Fake Out, Flame Charge, Power-Up Punch, Rock Tomb, Acrobatics, Aerial Ace, Bulldoze, Double Kick, Dual Chop, Feint, Flame Wheel for physical moves, and Vacuum Wave and any Hidden Power for special moves.
Here's an example set:
Infernape @ Scizorite
Ability: Iron Fist ---> Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch/Fake Out
- Swords Dance/Power-Up Punch
- Flame Charge/Flame Wheel/Flare Blitz
- Rock Tomb
Look at all these moves he can use: Mach Punch, Fake Out, Flame Charge, Power-Up Punch, Rock Tomb, Acrobatics, Aerial Ace, Bulldoze, Double Kick, Dual Chop, Feint, Flame Wheel for physical moves, and Vacuum Wave and any Hidden Power for special moves.
Here's an example set:
Infernape @ Scizorite
Ability: Iron Fist ---> Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch/Fake Out
- Swords Dance/Power-Up Punch
- Flame Charge/Flame Wheel/Flare Blitz
- Rock Tomb
A Random Duck
Banned deucer.
I have to say this OM was incredibly fun to play, with all of the innovation and everything. I'll share an underrated(imo) set that has won me a few games.
Haxorus @ Altarianite
Dragon -> Dragon/Fairy
Ability: Rivalry -> Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Facade
- filler
While not a sweeper, this cleans up really well. Once you get rid of any -ate speeders and weaken your opp's physical walls, send this monster in, mega and dd up, and (most of the time) it's gg. Altarianite gives Haxorus +40 in attack, maxing out at a whopping 520 with an Adamant nature. I chose Facade>return/frustration as he can't hold a lum berry anymore(thus susceptible to burns), Earthquake for the steel/poison/fire types, and honestly those were the only moves I needed. I had Low Kick in the last slot, but again, it was not needed so it can be a filler.
Haxorus @ Altarianite
Dragon -> Dragon/Fairy
Ability: Rivalry -> Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Facade
- filler
While not a sweeper, this cleans up really well. Once you get rid of any -ate speeders and weaken your opp's physical walls, send this monster in, mega and dd up, and (most of the time) it's gg. Altarianite gives Haxorus +40 in attack, maxing out at a whopping 520 with an Adamant nature. I chose Facade>return/frustration as he can't hold a lum berry anymore(thus susceptible to burns), Earthquake for the steel/poison/fire types, and honestly those were the only moves I needed. I had Low Kick in the last slot, but again, it was not needed so it can be a filler.
Last edited:
You sure it's not still on the main server under challenge?
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
almost every omotm beforehand has had the same fate, even really popular ones failed to get a "challenge" option. i highly doubt this om will be an exception.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Instead of just a vague one liner or set, how about you make a set and then explain it? When I saw jordanthejq12's question the first thing I thought of was Starmie.
Starmie @ Blue Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock / Rapid Spin
Starmie can effectively abuse the rain provided by Blue Orb, as well as the 30 SpA. It appreciates the boost to its STAB Hydro Pump making it hit incredibly hard. Thunder is next, having 100% accuracy in Rain and providing strong coverage, hitting Water-ypes that resist Hydro Pump hard. Ice Beam completes the pseudo BoltBeam combo and hits the Grass-Types the first two attacks can't. Psyshock is an option in your final slot to hit special walls harder, whereas Rapid Spin provides excellent team support. While Blue Orb doesn't boost speed, Starmie has great speed to begin with, outspeeding almost every month that hasn't mega evolved and some that have, such as Latiasite Heatran and Lucarionite Hoopa-U.
Heliolisk @ Blue Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Surf
- Volt Switch
- Hyper Voice
Heliolisk is another solid offensive abuser of Blue Orb. Similarly Starmie, it has pretty good initial speed and decent coverage. Thunder is 100% accurate, and a strong STAB. Surf is boosted by rain to become a pseudo-STAB and hitting Ground-types. Volt Switch is used for momentum, and Hyper Voice is an alternate STAB hitting mons like Sceptilite Water-types (Manaphy on the turn it Mega evos, Milotic, and Slowking for the most part).
Landorus-T @ Blue Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish / U-Turn
- Swords Dance / Superpower
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
Finally, we have Lando-T. It completely walls Primal Groudon, even if it runs Thunder/bolt as a lure for Skarmory. EdgeQuake is basically mandatory and provides excellent coverage. I personally prefer DoubleDance after that, as it is an excellent cleaner with 195 Atk. Superpower is an option over SD however, to bop mons like Heatran. U-Turn can be used if you don't wantneed it to be a cleaner, and allows you to pivot out, retaining momentum. The only combo I would not advise is SD/U-Turn, as if you are dedicated a slot to set up, you generally want to stay in. I invented this particular set after I lost to BJ's team and his stupid Thunderbolt PDon lure that neutered my Skarmory >.<
So yeah, these are what I thought of, although Raikou is a cool one as well. Most of the time, you will find that the mon you want to give Blue Orb to must be either very fast or have a way to boost its speed if you want it to turn out well offensively, as Blue Orb doesn't grant any speed. Jeez this turned out longer than I expected lol have fun :]
Starmie @ Blue Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock / Rapid Spin
Starmie can effectively abuse the rain provided by Blue Orb, as well as the 30 SpA. It appreciates the boost to its STAB Hydro Pump making it hit incredibly hard. Thunder is next, having 100% accuracy in Rain and providing strong coverage, hitting Water-ypes that resist Hydro Pump hard. Ice Beam completes the pseudo BoltBeam combo and hits the Grass-Types the first two attacks can't. Psyshock is an option in your final slot to hit special walls harder, whereas Rapid Spin provides excellent team support. While Blue Orb doesn't boost speed, Starmie has great speed to begin with, outspeeding almost every month that hasn't mega evolved and some that have, such as Latiasite Heatran and Lucarionite Hoopa-U.
Heliolisk @ Blue Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Surf
- Volt Switch
- Hyper Voice
Heliolisk is another solid offensive abuser of Blue Orb. Similarly Starmie, it has pretty good initial speed and decent coverage. Thunder is 100% accurate, and a strong STAB. Surf is boosted by rain to become a pseudo-STAB and hitting Ground-types. Volt Switch is used for momentum, and Hyper Voice is an alternate STAB hitting mons like Sceptilite Water-types (Manaphy on the turn it Mega evos, Milotic, and Slowking for the most part).
Landorus-T @ Blue Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish / U-Turn
- Swords Dance / Superpower
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
Finally, we have Lando-T. It completely walls Primal Groudon, even if it runs Thunder/bolt as a lure for Skarmory. EdgeQuake is basically mandatory and provides excellent coverage. I personally prefer DoubleDance after that, as it is an excellent cleaner with 195 Atk. Superpower is an option over SD however, to bop mons like Heatran. U-Turn can be used if you don't wantneed it to be a cleaner, and allows you to pivot out, retaining momentum. The only combo I would not advise is SD/U-Turn, as if you are dedicated a slot to set up, you generally want to stay in. I invented this particular set after I lost to BJ's team and his stupid Thunderbolt PDon lure that neutered my Skarmory >.<
So yeah, these are what I thought of, although Raikou is a cool one as well. Most of the time, you will find that the mon you want to give Blue Orb to must be either very fast or have a way to boost its speed if you want it to turn out well offensively, as Blue Orb doesn't grant any speed. Jeez this turned out longer than I expected lol have fun :]
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
252 SpA Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 271-319 (67 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 214-253 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 120-142 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Starmie Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 143-169 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- 84.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 99-117 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Starmie Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 143-169 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- 84.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
honestly, i think pidgeottite is just way better for starmie, i mean sure, you have a slightly stronger hydro pump otherwise, but id take THREE super strong accurate moves over 1 super strong with a chance to miss one moderately strong, and one meh. 35 spc attack is a lot. and the additional speed pidgeottite gives helps more too. honestly, id argue that since hydro pump will be hitting more then rain boosted hydro(dont forget the 80 accuracy, the 15% extra power blue orb gives is kinda redundant, and its not like starmie cant tank fire type attacks already. blue orb is just generally better for pokemon who are physically based, a wall, or mixed, as 99% of the time, pidgeottite is just better.
Tbh, I don't think Gyarados needs a lot of explanation. It gets +50 Atk and permanent rain, meaning it is a nuke after a boost. It is fast enough to do some damage to offense after a boost, and powerful enough to function well against stall.
Lcass4919, I actually heard talk of this today, and people were actually saying that a lot have actually stayed as a challenge option on the main server. That's why I am asking.
Last edited:
Raikou @ Pinsirite
Ability: Pressure
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Volt Switch
- Frustration
- Aura Sphere
90/115/95/125/120/135 when mega evolve.
Although gimmick, but it is very good at taking care of weak opposing pokemon.
DIE ANOTHER DAY (Staraptor) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack
85/180/80/50/60/130 when mega evolve.
(I use Adamant nature because i have Tailwind user as support)
Normal/Flying changes to Normal/Fighting when mega evolve.
This staraptor sure is good if you know how to use it properly. You can choose to mega evolve or not, depending on the opposing team you face.
Close Combat is for Blissey, as it does about 65% to 90% to Slowbronite/Sablenite Blissey. Quick Attack is preferred to outspeed slow pokemon with priority move (excluding extremespeed)
Ability: Pressure
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Volt Switch
- Frustration
- Aura Sphere
90/115/95/125/120/135 when mega evolve.
Although gimmick, but it is very good at taking care of weak opposing pokemon.
DIE ANOTHER DAY (Staraptor) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack
85/180/80/50/60/130 when mega evolve.
(I use Adamant nature because i have Tailwind user as support)
Normal/Flying changes to Normal/Fighting when mega evolve.
This staraptor sure is good if you know how to use it properly. You can choose to mega evolve or not, depending on the opposing team you face.
Close Combat is for Blissey, as it does about 65% to 90% to Slowbronite/Sablenite Blissey. Quick Attack is preferred to outspeed slow pokemon with priority move (excluding extremespeed)
Last edited:
wow that actually sounds worst
it's like spore, only good pokes get it
Honestly, I've used Hypnosis with No Guard a lot, but I don't think it's OP, mostly due to the Sleep Clause. Although it's annoying that you may have to sack a 'mon to it, there are also Magic Bouncers, like you've said, which hinder it a lot. While I wouldn't mind it too much if it got banned, I don't feel like saying that it's uncompetitive is a good argument. The only "luck-based" factor with it is the sleep turns, which isn't that bad honestly, and can easily go in your favor. Rather try to argue how it breaks Pokemon by allowing them to set up, or cripple a counter so they can get past them. You could think it's as uncompetitive as Baton Pass, as that was often called uncompetitive as well, but its hardly as if you can't counterplay. If you pay attention you can choose what it sleeps, and it can only sleep one Pokemon.
Ditto^
Anyways, here's a cool set I came up with. It seems outclassed at first, to say the least, but it has some unique perks that make it worthwhile.
Weavile @ Lucarionite
Ability: pressure
Jolly Nature
Icicle crash
Night slash / Knock off
Low Kick / Ice Shard
Swords Dance / Ice Shard
On the surface, this set seems completely outclassed by glalitite, however, upon further examination, it is actually just a different. First of all, Lucarionite gives an additional 2 points of speed, which is way bigger than it sounds as each point in speed makes a difference, whereas with attack this isn't always the case, second, your night slash is way stronger, and third, the 15 less special attack means you can put it in more useful places- defense in this case. This comes at the cost of a significantly weaker ice stab, no refrigerate fake out, and a tiny bit of attack. This makes it better suited to a sweeper than glalitite, which is a much better revenge killer or all out attacker. The moves can be adjusted, and unfortunately it has a decent amount of 4mss, as it wants to have all of the moves above, and has to choose 4. Sadly, weavile doesn't learn sucker punch, which frankly makes 0 sense, but I don't think it's exactly necessary to sweep. Tho it would be nice as a better option than night slash.
Anyways, here's a cool set I came up with. It seems outclassed at first, to say the least, but it has some unique perks that make it worthwhile.
Weavile @ Lucarionite
Ability: pressure
Jolly Nature
Icicle crash
Night slash / Knock off
Low Kick / Ice Shard
Swords Dance / Ice Shard
On the surface, this set seems completely outclassed by glalitite, however, upon further examination, it is actually just a different. First of all, Lucarionite gives an additional 2 points of speed, which is way bigger than it sounds as each point in speed makes a difference, whereas with attack this isn't always the case, second, your night slash is way stronger, and third, the 15 less special attack means you can put it in more useful places- defense in this case. This comes at the cost of a significantly weaker ice stab, no refrigerate fake out, and a tiny bit of attack. This makes it better suited to a sweeper than glalitite, which is a much better revenge killer or all out attacker. The moves can be adjusted, and unfortunately it has a decent amount of 4mss, as it wants to have all of the moves above, and has to choose 4. Sadly, weavile doesn't learn sucker punch, which frankly makes 0 sense, but I don't think it's exactly necessary to sweep. Tho it would be nice as a better option than night slash.
For anyone unclear about why the ice stab is significantly weaker (like me at first), note that it's not because of the abilities. (Refrigerate gives a 1.3x boost to ice attacks, which together with the 1.5x boost given to any STAB attack is 1.3x 1.5x ~= 2.0x. Adaptability "makes your stabs 2.0x instead of 1.5x", so it's a 1.3x boost in any case; same as a life orb.)
Both abilities gives the same multipliers, but Icicle Crash still only has 85 base power as opposed to return's 102 (that's a 102 / 85 = 1.2x increase in itself), and that's why the ice stab is significantly weaker.
The true utility of Pixilate / Refrigirate / Aerilate over Adaptability is that there's a
Last edited:
Sorry I couldn't be so detailed guys, I wrote all of it up with a huge showcase and whatnot but apparently smogon just went ahead and deleted all of it.
Anyways, here's my team. Feel free to use it as a Sample team, I peaked 1 and 2 at the same time and went undefeated for 35 battles, basically it is undefeated. I didn't lose with this team once outside of DQing, from what I remember.
Cobalion @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
Manaphy @ Absolite
Ability: Hydration
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Tail Glow
Zygarde @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
Happiness: 0
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
Arceus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Thunder
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
Anyways, here's my team. Feel free to use it as a Sample team, I peaked 1 and 2 at the same time and went undefeated for 35 battles, basically it is undefeated. I didn't lose with this team once outside of DQing, from what I remember.
Cobalion @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
Manaphy @ Absolite
Ability: Hydration
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Tail Glow
Zygarde @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
Happiness: 0
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
Arceus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Thunder
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
I love this metagame. It's such a blast. This team right here is so fun and is somehow undefeated. Don't ask me why. xD
Zangoose @ Lopunnite
Ability: Immunity
Happiness: 255
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Hypnosis
- Focus Blast
Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Howl
- Stone Edge
Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Surf
Vaporeon @ Aggronite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Ice Beam / Protect (I switch them from time to time)
Landorus-T @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Return
- U-Turn
Zangoose @ Lopunnite
Ability: Immunity
Happiness: 255
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Hypnosis
- Focus Blast
Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Howl
- Stone Edge
Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Surf
Vaporeon @ Aggronite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Ice Beam / Protect (I switch them from time to time)
Landorus-T @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Return
- U-Turn
I wasn't kidding about Heliolisk being A-.
I would say S because it did centralize the meta after I posted my RMT, everyone changed their team to be able to deal with Heliolisk, but A- is the bare minimum Heliolisk deserves.
Here is the set you should all be using:
Heliolisk @ Sceptilite
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 76 HP / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
Heliolisk's "gimmick" is he doesn't get hit by anything. He is immune to any move that isn't priority that comes from a Pokemon with less than base 134 Speed which doesn't have Mold Breaker or a Sceptilite of its own. This includes Defog, Toxic, Will-o-wisp, Whirlwind, Roar, Dragon Tail and Rapid Spin. Heliolisk is the only thing that can Block Rapid Spin and Defog in one turn. It is the only reliable spin blocker thanks to Aerialate/Pixilate/Refrigerate being able to turn rapid spin to a different type. By the way, Aerialate/Pixilate/Refrigerate activate before Electrify, so they don't hit through it. Less than half of (A- to S) can even hit this thing at all. By my count 45.0549% of Pokemon+Stone Combos ranked between A- and S can expect to hit Heliolisk at all.
A common example of something this set does is to ruin Sablenite Suicune, sounds impossible right? Well, if you run Heliolisk, you're more likely to win the matchup than to lose it, you just spam protect and electrify until your opponent realizes they're going to run out of PP, then you start predicting scalds to get up to +6, then you just have to find one turn where your opponent doesn't pick scald and there, 2hko, done.
So I recommend moving it up in viability to S. Basically, if your team isn't prepared for Heliolisk, you're going to lose.
I would say S because it did centralize the meta after I posted my RMT, everyone changed their team to be able to deal with Heliolisk, but A- is the bare minimum Heliolisk deserves.
Here is the set you should all be using:
Heliolisk @ Sceptilite
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 76 HP / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
Heliolisk's "gimmick" is he doesn't get hit by anything. He is immune to any move that isn't priority that comes from a Pokemon with less than base 134 Speed which doesn't have Mold Breaker or a Sceptilite of its own. This includes Defog, Toxic, Will-o-wisp, Whirlwind, Roar, Dragon Tail and Rapid Spin. Heliolisk is the only thing that can Block Rapid Spin and Defog in one turn. It is the only reliable spin blocker thanks to Aerialate/Pixilate/Refrigerate being able to turn rapid spin to a different type. By the way, Aerialate/Pixilate/Refrigerate activate before Electrify, so they don't hit through it. Less than half of (A- to S) can even hit this thing at all. By my count 45.0549% of Pokemon+Stone Combos ranked between A- and S can expect to hit Heliolisk at all.
A common example of something this set does is to ruin Sablenite Suicune, sounds impossible right? Well, if you run Heliolisk, you're more likely to win the matchup than to lose it, you just spam protect and electrify until your opponent realizes they're going to run out of PP, then you start predicting scalds to get up to +6, then you just have to find one turn where your opponent doesn't pick scald and there, 2hko, done.
So I recommend moving it up in viability to S. Basically, if your team isn't prepared for Heliolisk, you're going to lose.
Offence espeed/outspeed, stall laughs in its face. It's not going near S, I don't think it's A- either. We vited because it wss uncompetitive, not broken. Klefki was S when Swgaplay was banned
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Honestly, while it doesn't deserve S rank, I do think A- has some serious consideration considering how it shits in so many mons' faces 1v1. Its an amazing cleaner against offense and absolutely decimates balanced and stall teams. I got to test it at the very end of the ladder and I was unpleasantly surprised that the thing was still in the tier, and I think the council should seriously reconsider banning it because it is very unhealthy. Please test it before you negatively respond to this. I would've never imagined it to be more than a gimmick but as soon as I started testing it was very apparent it was broken.