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Molti Soli

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Mazz, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    MOLTI SOLI
    "Many Suns" - An RMT by Pokemazter and PDC

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction

    Sun is one of the hardest weathers to sustain in this current metagame. Rain teams carry a plethora of threats, such as Keldeo, Tornadus-Therian, or Gyarados. Sand brings residual damage that quickly and effectively wears out a Sun team, all while packing threats such as Landorus, Reuniclus, or Terrakion. However, despite being the hardest of the main weathers to maintain, Sun teams pack the hardest punch, and this team is no exception. "Molti Soli" carries sweepers that if given the chance to, will decimate an entire team rather quickly. The team relies on two bringers of Sun, Ninetales and Rotom-W, to give Volcarona and Sawsbuck room to set up and rampage against opponents.

    This team was built during my time being tutored by PDC, during Round 64, and incorporates many of the tricks he taught me, such as using lure sets and Pokemon not commonly seen in the Overused tier to win weather wars and break through top-tier threats such as Dragonite and Terrakion. "Molti Soli" takes a different approach to Sun teams, not relying on common threats such as Venusaur, Lilligant, or Dragonite to provide offense, and by bringing more overall bulk to the table than that of other Sun teams.​

    Teambuilding Process
    1.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As mentioned, this variant of the team had been more than relatively successful, and hadn't required any major changes. It took an original concept, ran with it, and did what it did best. The two Pokemon that made this version stand out were a Sunny Day Trapper Heatran and Claydol, Pokemon not commonly seen in the Rain-plagued Overused tier. However, that super-uniqueness would come to an end, because after 26 hours of being up in the RMT section, changes were made, seeing the likes of Heatran and Claydol replaced for Rotom-W, which I didn't know could learn Sunny Day, and Donphan, a more reliable spinner that can still handle Terrakion.​

    2.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As mentioned, Donphan and Rotom-W had been put onto the team in place of Heatran and Claydol. This is the current version, having had great success on my testing alt of Pokemazter_Test. The paralysis support brought to the table by Rotom-W and Donphan's ability to beat spinblockers is exceptionally useful, which definitely set this variant of my team apart from the former version. With these changes, I feel this team is more capable of handling the suspect ladder and Sand Veil Garchomp than before. Thanks Smogon!​

    In-Depth

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Drought
    252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Roar
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power Fighting

    The crux of a Sun team, Ninetales' job is typically limited to getting sun up and burning slow, physically-offensive threats (provided Will-O-Wisp doesn't miss). Once that job is done, Ninetales heads back to the bench to allow for Sawsbuck, Heatran, or Volcarona to begin a sweep. Unlike most Sun teams, I very rarely lead with Ninetales, which is part of the team's strategy. Deoxys-D typically takes on Tyranitar leads, and Heatran challenges Politoed leads. Ninetales only leads if the opponent lacks a weather setter, or is using a Hail team. Ninetales is obviously irreplaceable, as this team wouldn't be a Sun team without it.

    Roar, replacing Substitute and suggested by DestinyUnkown and gr8stard, has proven its usefulness by abusing the multiple layers of hazards set by Deoxys-D. With the passive damage from the hazards and Will-O-Wisp, many bulky Pokemon become extensively weakened or KO'd before I need to attack them. Will-O-wisp, as mentioned, burns many of the physical threats found in the OU tier, giving my sweepers more room to breathe, not fearing being revenge killed or shat on mid-setup. Flamethrower allows Ninetales to provide some offence to the team, crisping the likes of Ferrothorn, Scizor, Breloom, or Magnezone. Hidden Power Fighting is yet to see any actual use, as Ninetales is rarely going one-on-one with Tyranitar.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W, Sawsbuck
    [​IMG]: Donphan
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W, Sawsbuck​


    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-D @ Fighting Gem
    Pressure
    160 HP / 4 Def / 92 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Superpower


    Probably the most anti-meta Pokemon on the team, Deoxys-D practically guarantees that my team will win the weather war against a Tyranitar-based Sand team. Most of those teams see Deoxys-D, and leave their Tyranitar out because Crunch 2HKOs and will prevent me from stacking more than a layer of hazards. What they don't know, is that with that investment and a Fighting Gem, that all non-Chople Berry Tyranitar are OHKOd once I press the Superpower button. Nifty, hey? I get to set hazards, and I win a weather war. Overall, a solid day at the office.

    Stealth Rock and Spikes serve their obvious purpose on Deoxys-D. They turn many unboosted 2HKOs from Sawsbuck and Volcarona into OHKOs. They also break any stray Focus Sashes and Sturdy abilities that would otherwise prevent a direct OHKO. The residual damage also quickly brings the opponent to the ground, as many a game have been won by having my opponent switch into full hazards when it only has 30% of its HP remaining. Taunt is also rather self-explanatory. This variant of Deoxys typically outspeeds most of the common hazards layers and a wide variety of set up sweepers. This gives me more room to lay hazards and possibly bring in a different Pokemon. Superpower is what makes this set anti-meta, as mentioned above. It takes an opposing Tyranitar lead, shits on it, and practically wins me the match. Big shout-out to PDC, my tutor, as he gave me this set, and it hasn't failed me yet.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]: nothing as of right now
    [​IMG]: Sawsbuck
    [​IMG]: Volcarona, Ninetales​


    [​IMG]
    Donpan @ Lum Berry
    Sturdy
    128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Assurance
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stone Edge


    Donphan replaces Claydol, as suggested by Pocket, as it does the job as a spinner better, being capable of beating spinblockers while still maintaining the ability to somewhat handle Terrakion and Dragonite. I was initially against using Donphan over Claydol, as mentioned when Claydol was still on the team, but now, I'm loving having the added offensive pressure brought by Donphan. So far, Donphan has been exceptionally worthwhile to have on the team, and is currently my favourite spinner.

    Earthquake is a great move, powered by STAB and Donphan's base 120 Attack stat. It does a lot of damage to things that decide to switch in on Donphan, and absolutely crushes those that hold a weakness to Ground-type attacks. Assurance adds to the team's "uniqueness", beating all the common spinblockers if they decide to switch in on a predicted Rapid Spin. Spaking of which, Rapid Spin keeps the field clear of all forms of entry hazards - Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes. Unlike Claydol however, Donphan is not immune to Toxic Spikes, which is one of a few downfalls to using Donphan. Stone Edge is providing extra coverage alongside Earthquake and Assurance, allowing Donphan to hit Dragonite and other Flying-types for super effective damage.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W, Sawsbuck
    [​IMG]: Volcarona, Ninetales, Sawsbuck
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W, Ninetales​


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Levitate
    252 HP / 100 SpA / 28 SpD / 128 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Sunny Day
    - Thunder Wave


    The "second sun" of the team, suggested by Asterat, Pocket, and gr8stard. To be honest, I had no idea Rotom-W was capable of learning Sunny Day. That discovery gives a whole new meaning to Rotom-W's ability to provide momentum for the team. This variant of haunted washing machine takes on a bulkier role, slowing Scarfed and naturally fast threats so that the rest of my team may outspeed them whilst unboosted while bringing some offense to the table. Rotom-W also patches up my glaring weakness to powerful Water-type attacks, meaning I no longer have to rely on Sawsbuck to take them.

    Volt Switch is one of the momentum-providing moves on Rotom-W, as it deals strong damage thanks to STAB, while giving me the opportunity to switch to an ally to give myself a desirable matchup. Hydro Pump rounds off Rotom-W's STAB, and gives me a very solid hit outside of the effects of Sun. Sunny Day is Rotom'W's second momentum-providing move, as it really plays with opposing Politoed and other weather setters, as nobody expects it. Thunder Wave rounds off Rotom-W's supporting capabilities, slowing the likes of Choice Scarf Terrakion or other fast Pokemon commonly found in the tier so that my sweepers, Sawsbuck and Volcarona can outspeed them, regardless of any boosts the two may have previously required. I'm still relatively bewildered that this thing actually gets Sunny Day.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]: Volcarona, Ninetales, Sawsbuck​


    [​IMG]
    Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
    Chlorophyll
    112 HP / 248 Atk / 148 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Double-Edge
    - Horn Leech
    - Jump Kick


    The only Pokemon on the team that stands between my team and being walled by the Pink Blobs, Sawsbuck was the weather-abuser of choice. I'm relatively surprised by this thing, as it hits like a truck once boosted by Swords Dance. With Chlorophyll, it gets really fast too, being outsped by only gimmicky things like Choice Scarf Jolteon or Pokemon that have gathered enough Speed boosts. Not many teams are relatively prepared for Sawsbuck, which gives this team all the more of a surprise factor.

    Swords Dance is Sawsbuck's main claim to fame. Most people switch to a Steel-type such as Ferrothorn or Heatran when I bring Sawsbuck out, only to eat a +2 Jump Kick and deal with me laughing my ass off at them. Double-Edge was chosen over Return as one of Sawsbuck's STAB moves of choice as it does more in the long run that Return ever would. Hell, it has a way to restore its HP, so why not? Speaking of which, Horn Leech also provides STAB for Sawsbuck, draining most of the opponent's HP after a Swords Dance, keeping the deer healthy. Jump Kick, as mentioned, allows Sawsbuck to bypass Steel-types that would attempt to block a sweep. Sawsbuck needs to be on more Sun teams, as it can do so much to the opposing team in a short span of time.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]: Deoxys-D, Volcarona
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W, Ninetales
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W, Volcarona, Ninetales
    [​IMG]: Volcarona, Ninetales
    [​IMG]: Donphan​


    [​IMG]
    Volcarona @ Charcoal
    Flame Body
    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fire Blast
    - Bug Buzz
    - Hidden Power Ground


    The cleaner of the team, Volcarona typically doesn't see much use until the late-game where it can effortlessly set up and effectively beat an opponent. PDC had to work with me a lot on how to use Volcarona, as I was always wanting to get it out earlier in the game, which was one of my flaws as a battler - wasting my sweepers. Volcarona tends to live up to its name "Volcabroken", as it causes a lot of hell in and out of Sun after two or three Quiver Dances. It gets really fast, really bulky, and deadly powerful very quickly, and has been the sole reason as to why I've won a considerable number of games.

    Quiver Dance is Volcarona's crux, as without it, I might as well just be using Charizard. It allows for Volcarona to quickly boost its two special stats and its Speed, turning it into a rather violent sweeper and cleaner. Once backed by two or three Quiver Dances, Fire Blast and Bug Buzz tend to get spammed a lot, as both STAB moves tend to blast through whatever they touch. Hidden Power Ground is handy in case I run into an opposing Heatran that is okay with stomaching a +3 or +4 Bug Buzz. Getting that surprise KO against Heatran swings a lot of momentum for the team, as it's then free to spam Fire-type attacks without worrying about something absorbing them.

    Synergy:
    [​IMG]: Donphan
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W, Sawsbuck
    [​IMG]: Rotom-W​

    Conclusion

    Thanks to PDC's tutoring, I've noticed that I'm a much better battler today than when I had signed up for Round 64, as I know hold the knowledge needed to succeed in this ever-changing metagame. This team has had a lot of success (by my standards), reaching 1833 and beyond on the Pokemon Showdown! ladder three times, peaking at 1867. "Molti Solii" is a very high-risk, high-reward team that has been very fun to play with. My next challenge with this team is to take on the suspect ladder and see how it fares against Garchomp teams. Thanks for the read and rate!​

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. PDC

    PDC toll due
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    Haha, this was one of the best Sun Teams I've ever built..

    Not much to say here, but I suggest moving the 56 SDef EVs on Heatran to 56 HP EVs to help take hits overall a bit better. You should also run 164 HP / 92 Atk / 252 Spe to give Deo-D the maximum speed to Taunt other Deo-D ( or at least speed tie ) and also Taunt stuff like Jolly Luke. You could also try Shed Shell on Ninetails to help vs Dugtrio + Torn - T.

    Great team luvdisc. Nice to see you've come so far.
  3. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    Thanks. I'm pretty sure we had discussed those EV changes on a previous date. Changed them.
  4. asterat

    asterat

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    Your biggest problem is the lack of a bulky water resist. Or two in general. Solution: use SpD rotom-w over heatran. It still beats lots of rain dudes. Something like 248 HP/8 SpA/252 SpD should work with a calm nature

    EDIT: was the I say nay nay in claydol's description a John pinnete reference?
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I like this team, Pokemazter :) I've recently been testing Deo-D Sun offense myself, which I feel more people should try out. Sawsbuck is also an underappreciated chlorophyll sweeper - it's like the perfect revenge killer for Sun teams.

    I see some flaws, though. For one, you have no answer to powerful Water moves. Pokemon like Politoed or Keldeo can really harass this team. You could sac Deo-D of course, but Politoed can come in multiple times on Ninetales, and then you're forced to let something die. Sawsbuck certainly wont enjoy taking Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps or chance a Scald burn. I understand that Heatran is meant to lure and destroy Politoed, but the opponent may not make it so easy for you. At the very least, bringing in Ninetales to summon sun would be a huge risk and a liability.

    I also don't like how your Heatran is walled by opposing Heatran - if you don't have Dugtrio, Earth Power is mandatory.

    A slighter issue is that a combination of Scarf Landorus / Terrakion and Mamoswine / Scizor can check this team (as well as most Sun teams) badly.

    Here are the solutions I thought up - Bulky Starmie and Rotom-W over Claydol and Heatran.

    Starmie provides you with not only the same fighting-resist and spin support as Claydol, but also the crucial Water resist. With heavy investment in bulk, it can absorb such hits quite comfortably, or at least long enough for your Sun Sweepers to clean up.

    Replacing Claydol for Starmie means you lose a crucial immunity to EQ; thus Rotom-W fits in here nicely. Rotom-W provides this team with additional water resistance, and its momentum-grabbing Volt Switch pairs it nicely with your Sun Sweepers. It can also easily set up Sunny Day for the team, just like Heatran. Another major advantage for using Rotom-W is that Rock Polish Sheer Force Landorus that shits on most Sun teams cant dump on this team. Surprisingly Rotom-W makes a good fit on a Sun team :)

    Now that I told you the overall game plan, here are the actual sets.

    [​IMG]Starmie @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
    Timid | 252 HP / 252 Spe
    ~ Psyshock
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ HP Fire / Scald
    ~ Rapid Spin


    One major issue from removing Claydol and Heatran are dragons become more threatening. Thankfully, with Deoxys-D's hazards and the godly revenge-killing capabilities of Sawsbuck, you should be fine, but limiting set-up opportunities is ideal. Thus we have Ice Beam on this bulky Starmie. Psyshock prevents Gengar from spinblocking, as well as letting Starmie check Terrakion, Breloom, and Keldeo. HP Fire is nice to OHKO Scizor / Genesect looking to trap or U-turn on Starmie, and it also 2-shots Ferrothorn that comes in to Spikes. Scald is still good for burns, especially when Starmie is pitted against Tyranitar, but hopefully Deoxys-D eliminated TTar before then.

    [​IMG]Rotom-W @ Leftovers | Levitate
    Modest | 252 HP / 100 SpA / 28 SpD / 128 Spe
    ~ Volt Switch
    ~ Sunny Day
    ~ Will-O-Wisp
    ~ Hydro Pump


    Volt Switch and Sunny Day grab momentum; Wisp can be useful for burning Dragon-types thinking that they can set up on Rotom-W Gor against Water-types that dares to stay in on Rotom-W. Hydro Pump is nice for nailing Heatran, Hippowdon, Landorus, Gliscor, etc.

    The suggested EV spread is only a template that you may decide to tweak as you wish. I gave it enough Speed to beat Modest Politoed and Adamant Breloom, some SpA investment, and rest in HP / SpD.

    Thanks for the nice read, and best of future success to this team!

    EDIT: Oh yea, and definitely keep HP Ground on Volcarona if you're not using Dugtrio to trap Heatran. Volcarona can technically beat offensive Heatran with HP Rock, but specially defensive ones will still beat it. Plus Terrakion would even be a bigger pain.

    I suggest Fire Blast over Fiery Dance. That extra 50% boost in power paired with Sun's blessing will allow Volcarona to OHKO Dragonite, Gyarados, and Salamence after SR. Volcarona may want to go Timid to avoid Salamence from revenge-killing it. In that case holding Charcoal would provide more than enough boost to still knock out those mons.

    Don't use SolarBeam on Ninetales without Sunny Day on the same set. Your SubWisp Ninetales is intriguing, and I would keep HP Fighting.
  6. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Cool team, it looks pretty solid. I don't have much to say since Pocket has already covered most things, but I wanted to point out that if you are going with the changes suggested by Pocket, you will become much more weaker to Volcarona (as you can only prey on hazards being up to stop it). Something you could try to help with this problem is using Roar instead of Substitute, as Ninetales can take a hit from Volcarona and phaze it out, making it take hazard damage. Roar is also useful for racking up more hazard damage, which can help winning the weather war, too (you can Roar Politoed or Hippowdon as they try to switch in)
  7. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Just a short nitpick, take 4 EVs out of Deo-D's HP and into Def, so Genesect gets a Special Attack boost - since U-turn is way more common. I really like this team a lot o: However, does substitute actually work on Ninetales? I've never had success with it, especially with SR flying around. If it works for you, keep it, but I would just think Sunny Day would be a billion times better. It seems as if you've had more success with it than I have. Anyways, I'm going to second Pocket's suggestions. It does mean you miss out of trapper Heatran, which is a real shame, but I think it will better help the team.


    Luvdic'ed
  8. gr8astard

    gr8astard The Based Lord? My balls!!
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    I second DestinyUnknown's suggestion of using roar Ninetales as it not only helps you deal with Volcarona better, but also CM Latias, especially SubCM--if it gets a CM up Volcarona might not make it in time to stop Latias' rampage. It also allows you to stop things like SubSD/Double Boost Terrakion, Lum DDNite or Rock Polish Landorus from setting up (once you win the weather war, of course). More obscure sets like Sub Heatran can also be dealt easily this way.
    I am also a big fan of Rotom-W in sun teams as Pocket suggested, as it provides great utility and momentum in winning the weather war. However, I think you should keep Claydol over Starmie, as you stated yourself how Terrakion could be a huge problem if you don't have sun up. A psyshock from bulky Starmie won't be able to KO Terrakion anyway, making it an unreliable check to Terrakion.
    Finally, I just realize that you had Reflect on Claydol, which you admitted to be not so useful. Why not try HP Fire over it? I didn't do any calcs but I imagine it should be able to 2HKO Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory and Genesect. While I know you can easily deal with these threats (given that it is a sun team), I believe they all pose great annoyance to your team. Genesect can obviously keep spamming U-turn giving the opponent switch advantage, so catching it on the switch with HP Fire should severely limit its survivability with hazards up. Ferrothorn normally can stay in without fear on Claydol and continuously spam leech seed and hazards while you lose health, the same with Forretress. HP Fire is a nice surprise factor that can quickly eliminate these threats. Finally, Forretress and Skarmory are the few pokemon that can still wall a boosted Sawsbuck, therefore I think weakening these unsuspecting threats with Claydol's HP Fire would be much more beneficial than keeping Reflect.
  9. Haunter

    Haunter 100% avocado
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    Just a nitpick: it's "Molti Soli" as we use to put the adjective before the noun. Good team, I don't see any glaring weakness. I wouldn't remove Claydol, or Terrakion will become very hard to deal with since it can just spam stone edges that are gonna hurt even coming from a scarf set. Deoxys looks more like a suicide lead and has no recovery so it's not gonna help.
  10. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I mean he does have Sawsbuck to revenge Volcarona, but I do agree that Volcarona becomes more dangerous without Heatran. One easy fix is replacing Will-O-Wisp for Thunder Wave on Rotom-W. This will provide you with yet another emergency measure against Volcarona.

    I personally would try my suggestions out, but if you do see a glaring weakness to Scarf Terrakion, you can try Donphan over Starmie. It can be EV'd to be faster than Jellicent and threaten to 2HKO it with Assurance + EQ and help of hazards.

    [​IMG]Donphan @ Leftovers / Lum | Sturdy
    Adamant | 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Assurance
    ~ Rapid Spin
    ~ Stone Edge / Roar


    Assurance double in power if the opponent takes some sort of damage before the move is performed. This includes Jellicent switching in on Donphan and taking hazards damage. Entry hazards laid by Deoxys-D, a boosted super-effective Assurance, followed by Earthquake should put an end to Jellicent. Gengar dies to Assurance on the switch. Lum is nice to remove Wisp burns from Prankster Sableye and go for the surprise kill.
  11. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Nice and innovative team, me likes :D

    However there is something i don't like. Sub is the worst move one could use on Ninetales. You are already using the shittier weather starter, why handicap yourslef even more, by sacrificing 25% of her so precious health, when you can already do what Sub allows you to (burn physical attackers and Politoed, aka common Tales switch-ins), with some semi-decent prediction. It is totally counter-productive.

    Sunny Day on the other hand is a very hand move, that allows you to keep momentum whenever the opponent bring in their weather inducer, which is something that offensive teams love. With sun up Ninetales can also somewhat threaten Ttar with HP Fighting. For example it does 45.26 - 53.68% to CBTar, and 32.67 - 38.61% to Mixed Ttar, which is not bad at all, and can help with the weather wars quite a bit.

    Using Sunny Day on Ninetales will also help you with the Politoed (and water weakness in general) weakness you have, as you no longer have to sac something every time he comes in.

    Hope i helped, wish you the best ;D
  12. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    Mile-long post here.

    Rotom-W's been suggested elsewheres (below), so I figure I may as well run it. I'll probably use the spread Pocket suggested however, as I find it more immediately appealing.

    And yes, yes it was. Thank you for picking up on that. Thanks for the rate!

    Alright. To start this off, thanks for the compliment. PDC deserves most of the credit, as he basically built the team (using Deoxys-D was my idea though!). Next up, I will be implementing the suggestion of Rotom-W over Heatran, there seems to be enough favour towards that change. I'll most likely use the suggestion of Thunder Wave over Will-O-Wisp, as you also suggested further on. However, I'm not exactly big on using both Starmie and Rotom-W on a sun team, and will instead try the Donphan set you posted. The use of Assurance really caught my eye. It still gives me an answer to Terrakion (sorta), and Donphan's just cool in general. I'm exceptionally curious to your suggestion regarding Volcarona, as I've never actually considered the use of Charcoal. It definitely won't hurt to test the set. Thanks for the rate!

    I like this suggestion, and combined with what gr8stard and alexwolf added, I can see Roar being of much more utility than Substitute. I'll make that change. Thanks for the rate!

    The only issue I have with this suggestion is the scenario that Genesect comes out when Deoxys-D is at low HP, and then decides to abuse my lower HP. Rock Polish variants (do these even exist in OU? It did me a lot of good in DW) would also take a lot of advantage from that. I'll test it, as you said U-Turn is typically more common. Thanks for the rate!

    Claydol is currently being "replaced", by the Donphan set suggested by Pocket. It leaves me more vulnerablet o Close Combat, but holds more merit as a spinner than Claydol does. However, if I decide to go against using Donphan, then the HP Fire suggestion you've given me will definitely be used, as it makes winning against those mentioned Pokemon much easier. Thanks for the rate!

    Yeah, that's PDC's handywork with the title there. I'll see if I can fix that up a bit. Thanks for the compliment and rate!

    Those suggestions are currently being tested, with the Rotom-W suggestion being fully implemented. Thanks again!

    I'm currently testing Roar in place of Substitute. If I find that using it isn't as practical as I had hoped for, then I'll be sure to use Sunny Day in its place. Thanks for the rate!
  13. Pocket

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    Thanks for responding back, Pokemazter :) Just a reminder, though; Charcoal is meant to be used with Fire Blast; it wont help you get those KOs if Volcarona is running Fiery Dance.
  14. Mazz

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    I caught onto that, and am currently using Fire Blast over Fiery Dance.
  15. feriokun

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    Just thought I would mention: Under you checks in Sawsbuck you forgot to mention he is weak to poison and Donpan helps in the synergy department as he resist it. :) (I know it's not common but just figured I would mention it)
  16. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    And so I did. Thanks.
  17. Real World Order

    Real World Order

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    Use Return over Double-Edge on Sawsbuck. The recoil gets to be hard to handle especially against stall. Besides +4 Return OHKOs Dragonite through Multiscale if it's offencive.
  18. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Without giving you a proper rate, you have very little way of dealing with opposing Fire-types. Apart from revenge killing with Sawsbuck, you have absolutely no way of switching into offensive Heatrans (which I'd just send out at every opportunity, click Fire Blast and watch something die horribly), or opposing Volcaronas, or opposing Infernapes, or even opposing Victinis, Darmantians and Chandelures. I would suggesting investing on a Flash Fire Pokemon or something of the sort, or even a Kingdra to dick rain teams with (plus that 4x Fire resistance)
  19. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
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    Hi

    This is a cool team, however, most Dragon types will be nearly impossible to beat for your team if you're facing a decent player. Dragon Dance Dragonite with ExtremeSpeed, Calm Mind Latias, Choice Specs Latios, etc. can all cause incredible damage to your team. You have no Dragon resist to tank their Draco Meteor/Outrage, while you give them plenty of occasions to set up and switch in, Dragonite sets up on Volcarona rather easily, SubCM Latias will set up on Rotom-W as it can't do anything to it unless you catch it on the switch with Thunder Wave, and Latios can come in on it too if it uses any other move, as well as coming in on Donphan using Earthquake or Rapid Spin, or Ninetales as it doesn't really mind any of its moves. While you can Roar it, Politoed or worse, Tyranitar could be dragged in which would mean bad news for the rest of your team. Honestly I think that dropping Rotom-W for Genesect would do a lot for your team. First of all, you lose one easy switch in for Dragon types, which is nice, and you gain a great check to nearly all of the common Dragons in the metagame. Genesect will ensure your team keeps some Speed outside of Sun which is always useful if you are outside of Sun, seeing you don't carry Dugtrio. Finally, Genesect will also be able to benefit from Sun with boosted Flamethrowers which gives it a powerful option for late game sweeps, making it useful all throughout the match, be it early game with U-turn or revenge killing stuff.

    I would change Donphan's moveset a bit as I feel it could be more effective. The two Ghost types in OU at the moment are Gengar and Jellicent, which already take a lot of damage from Donphan's other moves. Jellicent hates Earthquake, it gets 2HKOed by it after Stealth Rock OR Spikes. Gengar, on the other hand, will take a ton of damage from Head Smash, which should go over Stone Edge for its higher base power, while the recoil could be annoying, it gives Donphan much more firepower which will end up being much more useful. Finally, you can use Ice Shard over Assurance since you won't really need it, since an emergency option against weakened Dragonite or Landorus is always great, and priority in general is just good.

    This is a cool team, I like it n_n. Here's the set you should use:
    Genesect (open)

    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Download
    Hasty
    EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
    ~U-turn
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Flamethrower


    Good luck!
  20. sora13

    sora13

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    Hi, this is a very nice sun team and I just would like to point out a suggestion that may be personal preference, but is still quite vaild. I think a Lum Berry on Volcarona would be great as it can avoid status like Toxic and Thunder Wave, and it can even use it as a set-up turn. So many people rely on Toxic to beat Volcarona, and by throwing that option down the drain you put the opponent in a extremely tough position. Personally I find that a +1 sun boosted Fire Blast pretty much decimates everything it needs to, even resists like Gyara and Salamence, so I find Charcoal a bit superfluous. Lum Berry opens up set-up situations that weren't there before.

    Go ahead and try it out. If you don't like it, then you can always go back to Charcoal, but Lum berry is quite the useful item.
  21. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    I don't understand why you are using Stone Edge over Ice Shard. donphan will not always be at a healthy amount of hp against dragons and you may need the priority to finish them off. And with Assurance and Ice shard you will be able to handle Gengar a lot better. Relying on Stone Edge's shaky accuracy is gonna cost you. I understand that they may fear you to have Ice Shard, but once they see your moveset or discover you don't have it, it's going to be tough to handle their dragons.
  22. asterat

    asterat

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    I am struggling with the purpose of assurance on donphan. Head smash hits Gengar harder, and earthquake and head smash hit jellicent harder. It also should pretty much always have ice shard to revenge (sheer force) landorus. I also think it might be worth your while to try out leftovers, they help you tank hits better.

    This team really will struggle with stall, so I think you migh want to try growth venusaur over sawsbuck. I know you want this team to be unique, but you also want to succeed, no? Sawsbuck (and deoxys superpower although much less) are your answers to The pink blobs of doom. However they are pretty unwieldy and are almost always used in conjunction with other bulky pokemon, like forretress or skarmory. Not to mention genesect is everywhere right now, which doesn't help it. Growth venusaur is only fully walled by heatran and forms a nice offensive duo with volcarona, as well as removing toxic spikes. Because this leaves heatran a massive threat to your team, you can use HP ground on ninetales. It won't do much, but it will do more than HP fighting. In a 1 v 1 with Tyranitar you are probably better off will-o-wisping anyways. Not to mention donphan laughs at most Tyranitars while claydol was weak to crunch.

    Bulkier donphan might help, as your current set is always 2HKOed by Terrakion scarf CC after a layer of spikes.

    Changes:
    Donphan:
    Ice Shard>Assurance
    Head Smash>Stone Edge
    Leftovers>Lum Berry
    Ninetales:
    HP ground>HP fighting
    Venusaur>Sawsbuck
    New Rotom EVs: 248 HP/36 SpA/220 SpD, calm nature (explanation below)
    bulky donphan>offensive donphan

    Do what you want with venusaur, I think a standard Growth/Giga Drain/HP fire/Sludge Bomb set will do though. Life orb is preferred but you could use a bulky set which does break stall a little better due to its durability.

    Also with volcarona and venusaur rotom outspeeding breloom is uneccesary. Also 36 SpA with neutral nature is enough to always OHKO Thundurus-T after a LO in rain. Without significant SpD investment and a calm nature, Rotom will fall to rain teams easily, especially without pain split. I recommend 248 HP/36 SpA/224 SpD to take hits better.
  23. PDC

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    Keep Heatran and Claydol.

    Hell, Genesect is a good choice too. But if you dump Tran you lose your dragon resist and Volcarona counter. You can adjust it slightly obviously, but you should keep Heatran. Claydol is an even better check to Dragons and the strong ground and fighting types

    You could even try Toxic on Claydol to help defeat Jellicent, or even Psychic.
  24. peng

    peng

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    I'm gonna disagree with the Rotom-W suggestion; using a mon thats practically useless in your own weather purely to beat opposing Rain isn't massively worth it, especially considering that Sun generally matches up well against Rain already. I definitely think you should go back to Magma Storm + Sunny Day Heatran because at the moment you lack a steel type and have basically no way of even touching a dragon outside of Sawsbuck in sun.

    I also really prefer Claydol to Donphan on this team purely for the Close Combat resistance; Terrakion is a massive douche to you if you keep Donphan considering Deoxys-D, your best check, will likely be down in the early turns of the game as you get up hazards, or at least incredibly crippled.

    I've been using a similar Deoxys-D set for a while too, albeit with a different EV spread. However, I'd like to recommend Low Kick over Superpower, as Low Kick has 120 base power (same as superpower) against pretty much everything you are targeting it with: Tyranitar, Heatran, Terrakion, Mamoswine, etc. The benefit is that after you Low Kick Tyranitar turn 1, you have a better chance of getting up hazards of subsequent turns because you haven't lowered your defense.

    Cool team, gl.

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