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Moltres

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by TheArchangle, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. TheArchangle

    TheArchangle

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    Moltres
    Meet Moltres, the worlds most underrated phoenix. Hidden under all other fire types, namely Charizard, a fire/flying brother in arms is slowly making its emergence into the scene. While it may seem like there's no point to use Moltres over Charizard you will soon see why. Boasting nice base stats and a good offensive and defensive move-pool Moltres can be a major threat to any unprepared team, bring your stealth rocks or else the battle will be over before you know it because the fire phoenix is making its move.

    Base Stats: 90 HP/100 ATK/90 DEF/125 Sp.Atk/85 Sp.Def/90 SPE
    Base Stat Total: 580

    Typing: Fire/Flying
    Weaknesses:Rock 400% Water 200% Electric 200%

    Abilities:
    Pressure: The standard ability of legendary pokemon, not a bad ability, helpful especially on sub-roost sets for PP stalling
    Flame Body(Not Available: Great ability, when released will be #1 on all offensive sets as the burn chance will cripple physical threats.

    Moves by level up
    Show Hide

    Notable moves in Bold
    —Wing Attack
    — Ember
    8 Fire Spin
    15 Agility
    22 Endure
    29 Ancientpower
    36 Flamethrower
    43 Safeguard
    50 Air Slash
    57 Roost
    64 Heat Wave
    71 Solarbeam
    78 Sky Attack
    85 Sunny Day
    92 Hurricane


    Moves learned by TM/HM
    Show Hide

    Notable moves in Bold
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 Solarbeam
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM37 Sandstorm
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Flame Charge
    TM44 Rest
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat
    TM58 Sky Drop
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM61 Will-o-wisp
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Pluck
    TM89 U-turn
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    HM02 Fly


    Move Tutor Moves
    Show Hide
    Tailwind
    I only put in Tailwind because he naturally learns all the other moves


    Pros
    Huge offensive threat- Moltres's 125 Base Sp.Atk in combination with a strong offensive move-pool(containing good stabs in Fire Blast and Hurricane plus Solar Beam for sun teams) allows Moltres to reek havoc on on unprepared team with the sun backing it up and with Hurricane it can still perform in the rain.

    Good Bulk- Moltres packs respectable 90/90/85 defenses in combination with a good defensive movepool in Substitue, Toxic and Wil-O-Wisp in combination with a great recovery move in the form of Roost and phasing capabilities in roar allow Moltres to use sub/stall sets, also it lets you know that at full HP moltres will rarely be OHKO'd by non super effective moves(unless SR damage has been taken).

    Comfortable in rain- Moltres packs something every other fire type dreams it had, STAB Hurricane. Volcarona has Hurricane, it's not STAB. Charizard has Flying STAB but does it have Hurricane? No. It has Air Slash. Most people don't realize it but a Hurricane from Moltres is just as powerful as Tornadus I and I think we all know how potent that is. In addition to this, Moltres's Fire Blast should still OHKO the most common Rain wall, Ferrothorn.

    Cons
    STEALTH ROCKS
    This is Moltres's biggest flaw BY FAR. If it wasn't for a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock I believe that Moltres would be in OU. The fact that Moltres take 50% damage when switching in to SR is crippling but not game ending. All this means is that Moltres will require spin/magic bounce support. This isn't a major problem because if used in Sun you should never be without Spin support.

    Weakness to priority- Simple. Moltres is owned by priority namely Aqua Jet, this makes Moltres easily revenge killed lowering its overall effectiveness and sweeping capabilities.

    Middling Speed- Moltres has a base 90 speed, while base 90 is not bad, it's not good either. It's right in the middle allowing it to be out-sped by major threats, this is easily fixed by the Choice Scarf turning Moltres into a dangerous revenge killer. All in all, not a major problem, but a problem.

    Possible Sets

    Choice
    Moltres @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
    4DEF/252Sp.Atk/252SPE
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    Fire Blast
    Hurricane/Air Slash
    HP Grass/ Solar Beam (only on sun teams)
    U-Turn

    If you pick choice specs you will see the raw, off the charts power of Moltres destroying everything in its path, especially if it has sun support. If you pick scarf then Moltres because a potent revenge killer dealing huge damage and checking many threats.

    StallTres
    Moltres @ Leftovers
    248HP/36DEF/224SPE
    Nature: Timid
    Substitute
    Roost
    Toxic
    Flamethrower

    A set most people won't see coming, SubRoost Moltres is extremely dangerous. While when it comes to stalling like this while Moltres may not be your best choice, how well it catches foes off guard is the main key. Also, with a little prediction you can nail incoming steels with a flamethrower.

    Sweeper
    Moltres @ Life Orb/ Leftovers/ Expert Belt (?)
    Timid/Modest
    Fire Blast
    Hurricane/Air Slash
    HP Grass/Solar Beam (only on sun)
    Roost/Flame Charge/HP Fighting (?)

    This set abuses Moltres's abilities to run through a team. You can take the full offensive approach with a life orb, go a little defensive with leftovers, or run the EBelt. With the EBelt you must realize that this set reaches it's highest level of effectiveness under the sun where Solar Beam becomes viable allowing you to use HP Fighting for Heatran who normally walls Moltres. On other sets Flame Charge can be used to up Moltres's speed from it's average levels to off the charts letting him out-speed most of the tier. Instead, you can run Roost allowing Moltres to recover after its taken to much damage.

    Conclusion
    What do you guys think of Moltres in OU? Do you think it will get any use with the help of the all-mighty Ninetails backing it up with permanent sun or will SR still be such a crippling flaw to the point were Moltres is worthless?
  2. Ames

    Ames

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    I used Moltres a lot at the beginning of BW2 with a rain team and can safely say that, at the time, it was brutally effective.

    If you play it like rain Volc with a magic bouncer or spinner it can generally take out at least one pokemon due to its sheer power. I personally found its most effective set to be:

    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Modest, 252 SpA 252 Spe
    -Agility
    -Fire Blast
    -Hurricane
    -HP Water/Roost

    HP Water might seem a bit odd but it lets you smack Heatran with a pseudo-stab. HP Ground or Grass are other options but I personally liked Water the most.

    Another set which I only tested breifly but could be rather potent is:

    Moltres @ Petaya Berry
    Modest, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
    -Substitute
    -Agility
    -Hurricane
    -Fire Blast

    This set functions similarly to sub Petaya Empoleon in the rain, except with the most powerful Hurricane in the game to throw around. The idea behind it is to take advantage of that horrible stealth rock weakness which actually helps take you down to half health, allowing you to activate the Petaya berry with only 1 substitute (sorry I can't recall the IVs and EVs needed for the pinch berry number) then hit Agility and sweep with ludicrous power.

    Again, these were both functioning exceptionally on a rain team with some support. I think that he is just another outclassed fire type on a sun team.
  3. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    I remember using Moltres in early BW2. I still have the team, I think, although I have stopped using it. The set was:

    Moltres @ Sharp Beak / Leftovers / Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
    Nature: Modest
    - Substitute
    - Fire Blast
    - Hurricane
    - Roost

    Plays like a bulkier rain Volc. You can check a stack of threats with this, like Breloom, Toxicroak and others. Basically, you can either stall your opponent out through SubRoost, or you can just outright kill them with Hurricane or Fire Blast.
  4. bubbly

    bubbly

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    What.

    Anyway yeah, SubRoost Hurricane Moltres was nice at the dawn of BW2. It might still be viable, it checks Genesect pretty well without being Dugtrio fodder, but with 90% of teams being Genesect based it's increasingly hard to keep SR off. I really don't see why it would be useable over Volcarona in this meta.
  5. LordAlpaca

    LordAlpaca

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    To be honest, Volcarona still seems the better pick except for no STAB on Hurricane and worse defence. The best use I can see for it is a counter for rain on a sun team (and vice versa). If you have to use, defensive roles like SubRoost are really outclassed by Zapdos and even Kyurem. Offensive LO seems to be its best bet.
  6. Haunter

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    The real question is: why use it over Tornadus\Volcarona? Game Freak had to give it regenerator as its dream world ability, then it could have probably seen some use.
  7. KurashiDragon

    KurashiDragon

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    Well Moltres has other options than Tornadus in rain. It can also function well outside of weather which for some reason Tornadus can only ever dream of doing.

    As for Volcarona, apart from stab hurricane in the rain I got nothing. Really, the most major difference between the two from what I can see is Butterfly dance. Moltres really has no options to set up apart from subPetaya for a set up sweep. Moltres really doesn't get any love anymore. At least it's not articuno.
  8. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    If you want to abuse Moltres, I think Agility is the way to go. The common flaw with Volcarona (besides the obvious SR weak) is that even after a single Quiver Dance, Scarf Landorus and Terrakion can still outspeed, as well as other scarfers if you forgo Bulk. Agility Moltres lets you get that extra speed boost, making it much more difficult to revenge kill, although you are less stronger / bulkier than Volcaroan as a trade off.
  9. Haunter

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    Well, Tornadus has access to heat wave so it can function as a good lure for Jirachi even on sun teams and can always act as a check for opposing rain teams.
    If I had to run a gimmick sweeper then I'd probably prefer agility\hurricane\hp ground\ice beam Articuno in rain because of its better SpD and the loss of the weakness to fire moves. Unfortunately stealth rock really killed both Moltres and Articuno.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Moltres's advantages over Volcarona are way better physical bulk, to the point that he can actually be a pivot for physical Fighting/Bug/Steel attacks while using an offensive ev spread, 50% more power when using Hurricane (due to STAB), and the ability to pp stall things it can't beat with Pressure.

    This and Agility...

    If i were to use a set i would use the offensive Modest LO one with Hurricane, Fire Blast, Sub, Roost and LO in rain. Standard Hurricane resists and SpD walls are all 2hkoed after SR or PP stalled out of their dangerous moves with SubRoost except from the blobs. Standard Lefties Rotom-W is always 2hkoed by Hurricane after SR, SpD Jirachi is 2hkoed by Fire Blast, SpD Skarmory is easily 2hkoed by Hurricane + Fire Blast and Physically Defensive is OHKOed by Fire Blast, Jolteon and Thundurus-T are 2hkoed by any move w/o SR, Metagross is 2hkoed by Hurricane + Fire Blast, Gastrodon is 2hkoed by Hurricane, SpD Heatran is 4hkoed after SR by Hurricane (w/o Protect factored in) and he can't do anything back except from phazing you, max HP Latias is 2hkoed by Hurricane after SR, even if he uses CM the next turn, Jellicent and Tentacruel are 2hkoed by Hurricane and this is it i think. (all these calcs assume rain up).

    Not to mention that Moltres can counter QD Rain Volcarona if SR isn't up, and Volcarona in sun too probably.

    Here are some calcs:

    - +1 Lefties Modest Volcarona Hurricane vs 4 SpD Moltres: 78.5 - 92.52%. (by using 48 HP evs you always live after taking LO damage and a Hurricane)

    - LO Moltres Hurricane vs +1 4 SpD Volcarona: 111.89 - 131.83%

    - LO Moltres Hurricane vs +2 4 SpD Volcarona: 84.88 - 100.32%
  11. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Whatever the potential of offensive moltres, I think the subtoxic set is by far its most dangerous. A player named Mewten used a team featuring subtoxic moltres in DW, and it is SO much better than it seems on paper. Part of what makes it so hard to beat is that fire is an incredible STAB on a toxic-stalling, just as ground-typing makes gliscor such a great toxic staller. Moltres's bulk is pretty incredible though actually--a physically defensive spread can be EVed to survive a +1 tbolt from genesect, for example. it obviously requires RS support, but as was stated in the OP that's not too hard to provide. Flame Body is also a really cool bonus, since a cycle of sub + roost gives the opponent's physical attacker a ton of opportunities to get burnt. I really recommend that people try it out--it's very hard to beat without letting 1 or more of your pokes be crippled.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    ^ When Moltres is behind a Sub, Flame Body can't activate, just sayin'.

    And i am not really sure about SubToxic Moltres. DW and BW2 OU are very different metagames, and in theory this set doesn't have many things going for it. Heatran, Tentacruel, Gliscor in rain, Rotom-W, Terrakion, Latios and Starmie literally don't give a fuck about it, and this is only from the top 20. Heatran, Tentacruel and Gliscor in rain obviously wall you, Rotom-W doesn't care about Toxic that much as it has Pain Split, and can use Volt Switch to break the Sub and then go to something else faster that beats Moltres (many pokes), Terrakion and Latios don't care about Toxic that much, resist Flamethrower and can OHKO with moves like SE and Surf / Thunder, while Starmie has Natural Cure for Toxic, and Tbolt to break your Sub, which means that you can't pp stall his Hydro Pump.

    If you want more counters, there are also RestTalk Gyarados, Refresh CM Latias and CM Reuniclus, while Keldeo is an exellent check.
  13. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Sry for double posting but i have some news...

    I tested offensive SubLO Moltres and Specs Moltres and i can definitely say that Specs is better (the set i used was Modest Specs with Max Spa / Max Spe and Hurricane / Fire Blast / U-turn / Sleep Talk or HP Ground or HP Fight for Tyranitar and Heatran respectively). This is true for 3 reasons. First of all Moltres detests residual damage, if this wasn't clear already, so losing 10% with each attack definitely makes Moltres sadder. While yes he has Roost he doesn't get many chances to use it, meaning that SR + LO + Sub build up wayyyy too fast. The second reason is that Moltres really needs the extra power to score some OHKO-2HKOes. For example offensive Heatran takes 46.13 - 54.48% from a Modest Specs Hurricane, sure 2HKO after SR, while outspeeding Timid Heatran by 1 point, while with LO you only deal 39.93 - 47.36%, having only a 3.13% chance to 2HKO, so it will get up SR up most of the times, making your life harder. Another example is against offensive Modest Volcarona with Lefties and Hurricane (Rain Volcarona) which Moltres is supposed to check. +1 Hurricane does 79.12 - 93.14% to Moltres so he survives a hit from full health. Let's see what he can do back... LO Moltres does 111.89 - 131.83% to a +1 Volcarona or 84.88 - 100.32% to a +2 Volcarona. So if Volcarona decides to use Quiver Dance twice, which he will if you lack a priority user, he can tank a Hurricane and then kill you back with its own Hurricane at +2. Even if Volcarona doesn't go for a second QD and uses Hurricane after just one boost, you have a chance of dying from your own LO recoil. But with Specs you guaranteed survive even after killing Volcarona, and you do manage to kill her most of the times. Here is how much a Specs Hurricane does vs a +2 Volcarona: 97.1 - 114.46%, 81.25% chance to OHKO. Not bad huh? The 3rd reason is that Moltres 2HKOes most of the meta with just Hurricane, and Fire Blast is only needed to snipe the pokes that you can't kill with Hurricane such as Jirachi and Metagross and to murder Sun teams. So switching moves is not really needed, so no real reason to use LO over Specs.

    Now that i am done explaining why Specs is better than LO on Moltres let me explain Moltres's purpose. It is best used as a wallbreaker in rain teams, where very little things can take it's attacks. Except from being an excellent wallbreaker, he is an awesome asset for rain teams against Sun teams. Most members on sun teams cannot hurt Moltres much, while he can usually OHKO-2HKO any of their pokes, except from Heatran with just Fire Blast. Finally he is a good check to many dangerous threats, such as HP Rock-less Volcarona (HP Rock was used on 5% of all sets), Venusaur (the only thing that scares you is +2 Sludge Bomb, so the only Venu you fear is Sludge Bomb Venu with Growth), Lucario and Scizor, as long as you keep SR off the field.

    I also want to test out Agility Moltres in Sun as he seems an excellent cleaner for Sun teams in theory. I am talking about this set: Modest with Life Orb, 252 SpA / 252 Spe, Agility, Fire Blast, Solarbeam, HP Ice. Familiar with TR Victini? Agility Moltres plays the same more or less, except with less bulk to set-up, serious SR weakness and inability to hurt other weather inducers except from Hippo (which Victini struggles against, so this is a plus for Moltres), which means that before you sweep with him, it is necessary to remove them. But what it has over TR Victini is that he outspeeds everything after an Agility (Victini still gets undersped by some mons even after one use of V-Create such as Slowbro, Ferrothorn and Reuniclus), does not have only 4 turns to sweep, is less prone to priority (V-Create kills your defenses), and can OHKO threats that Victini cannot, such as Jellicent, Gastrodon, Vaporeon and bulky Landorus-T. Tbh i believe that it will be kind of inferior to TR Victini but i still want to test it to be sure...
  14. Tobes

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    So I've been messing around with Specs Moltres, and I must say I sorely underestimated it. I still have doubts about just how viable it is (and I wouldn't go so far as to say it's better than LO yet), but the raw power is hard to ignore. Specs Modest Hurricane is just ludicrously powerful. It's been doing things like 2HKOing Specially Defensive Jellicent and Skarmory. Specs Moltres is incredibly menacing for slow teams to switch into, since the only really safe switches available to them are Heatran and Blissey / Chansey, the former of which does not like a U-turn into Dugtrio or straight-up Hidden Power Ground / Water. It also provides a quick answer to threats Tornadus-T doesn't like dealing with, such as Scizor, and to a lesser extent Ferrothorn and Mamoswine, as well as threats rain doesn't like in general, such as Volcarona. So it's exceeded my expectations (which were admittedly low) in that it is not at all useless and quite, quite powerful.

    However, Moltres is not easy to fit on a team, and can be a liability against faster teams. For one thing, it automatically requires rain and a spinner, so that's three team slots already taken. Furthermore Dugtrio support is really beneficial to Moltres, removing Tyranitar (a nice thing about Moltres is that it can just flat-out nuke Hippowdon with Fire Blast if it tries to switch the weather), Heatran, and Terrakion that would trouble it. Dugtrio support is even important for disuading Scarf Genesect from using Thunderbolt against Moltres, which is the only common move it has that actually threatens Moltres. So that would be four slots already used, leaving you with only two to cover the many defensive weaknesses. Moltres needs a relatively very high amount of team support to function. Its typing means it can have trouble switching into things, and its low Speed means it's forced out by a lot of things. Against fast teams, especially fast rain teams, it is rarely going to attack and will usually be sponging U-turns before getting foddered, unless the opponent has a slow pivot like Forrtress or Ferrothorn that can be taken advantage of. And this isn't even touching on the 4x Stealth Rock weakness, which is a humongous pain in the ass. Generally a 4x SR weak Pokemon needs to win you the game to be worth using (see: Volcarona). Specs Moltres falls short of this. It's useful in its specific niche and is a superb special nuke, but it is usually not going to win a game on its own. Because of Moltres you need to spin in suboptimal situations if it's below 50% health (sometimes you feel like you need to even when it's at full) if you want to keep it around, and spinning in a suboptimal situation usually has consequences or an opportunity cost. Spinning just to remove Stealth Rock and only Stealth Rock can be quite impractical. Again, when you take the risk in a suboptimal situation for such a relatively low reward, you want to be doing it for something that can win the game, such as Dragonite or Volcarona. Moltres is not something like Tornadus-T, who detests Stealth Rock but is not neutered by it and does not require a suboptimal Rapid Spin in order for you to keep using it, and it is not like Volcarona or Dragonite in that removing Stealth Rock can open up an opportunity to win the game. Moltres's typing, unfortunately, prevents it from even taking advantage of said typing to effortlessly sponge U-turns if Stealth Rock is up.

    I'm waiting on Flame Body Moltres, which is hilarious for switching into Genesects and Scizors. As far as the Hidden Power choice goes, Hidden Power Ground or Water are probably the safest bets, but Grass and Ice could be considerable for Rotom-W and Multiscale Dragonite, respectively.
  15. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

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    i wonder how well moltres could do on a duel weather team with sun and rain?
  16. HabibsHotDogs

    HabibsHotDogs

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    I agree with the agility + hurricane movesets.

    I posted an agility sweeping set a while ago: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4329741#post4329741

    The advantages moltres has over volcarona is that it can check more threats, and after 1 turn of set-up has more speed and the same power hurricane (actually 10% more thanks to modest nature, assuming timid volcarona).

    Oh, not to mention a lot of moltres' hard counters can be dealt with by using dugtrio
  17. Pocket

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    Tobes, I think Specs Moltres isn't as Rain (or weather) dependent as you make it seem. Remember that it does have that powerful STAB Fire Blast outside of Rain. Without Rain, Hurricane still has an accuracy of Focus Blast, which is passable for a powerful coverage move to complement Fire Blast. Only Sun makes Hurricane a liability, but then Moltres should be nuking everything with its powered up Fire Blast anyways!

    Good find, though - I'm glad people like you and alexwolf are finding innovative ways to use Moltres of all things in OU xD
  18. Tobes

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    70% accuracy is acceptable for a coverage move, not so much for a spamming move. When using Specs Moltres your gameplan should be a) Spam Hurricane b) do something that makes it easier for you to spam Hurricane, i.e. Fire Blast a Jirachi or U-turn out of a Tyranitar. 70% accuracy is horrible when the move is being used very often (there's a reason nobody runs Thunder or Blizzard without the corresponding weather). A 30% chance of a miss is just unacceptable. Ever tried to land a Tornadus-T Hurricane against a Hippowdon? It's like that, but against every Pokemon. If you want to run Hurricane Moltres, you need rain. It has enough issues as is without poor accuracy for its most important move.

    As for Sun, I question Moltres's viability outside of Agility. I sincerely doubt Specs Sun Moltres is at all viable.

    P.S. alexwolf did most of the discovering, I just dicked around with it on ladder and wrote my observations.
  19. Pocket

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    That's what I'm saying, Tobes - you have Fire Blast to spam, so you don't need Rain for a perfectly accurate Hurricane
  20. Haunter

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    It's not like fire blast is a reliable move to spam. And if you're going to spam fire blast then why use Moltres in the first place, when stuff like Infernape and Volcarona is available?
  21. alexwolf

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    Yeah Specs Moltres is only viable in rain, as Fire Blast is walled by a lot of pokes, and Hurricane needs perfect accuracy to be abused.
  22. Camisado

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    I think Scarf is a lot more viable than Specs. Moltres is something you bring in mid-late game, take Stealth Rock damage once if you couldn't keep it on the field, and then just bulldoze with Hurricane/ Fire Blast/ Flamethrower depending on which weather facilitates it most.It's natural bulk and typing means few priorities are able to 2hko.

    While it shouldn't be coming in more than once or twice, having U-Turn as a filler makes it playable in the lead position vs Genesect or something.

    I think Moltres is very able in the OU environment, and I'd go as far as saying running answers to Stealth Rock aren't even mandatory to get the full effect of it if played correctly. There's not a lot of other Pokes with Moltres' stats that excel in both Rain and Sun.
  23. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    I would use Moltres with Tornadus. Let me explain: as everyone know, Moltres and Tornadus can both learn hurricane, and what does hurricane hit? Jirachi and some Blissey or Chansey, mainly. The combination of Moltres and Tornadus can destroy the similiar counter with simple hits of hurricane. Also, Moltres can learn Fire Blast and it can scare some Jirachi and Tornadus can learn Superpower and Taunt to scare Blissey and Chansey.

    In short: more hurricane user in the same team are fearful in theory. I will try in practice

    EDIT: Yes, I agree life orb and choice specs are a better choices
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Alexander i have already tried the combo of Specs Moltres and LO Tornadus-T and it is a good one. Many of Moltres's checks and counters such as Ttar, Heatran, Chansey and Blissey are beaten by Taunt Tornadus-T, so just U-turn out and profit. Also Moltres can roast any Jirachi / Metagross / Skarmory / Bronzong who are looking to wall Torn-T, and can again come in safely with U-turn. I think that those 2 together are unwallable in OU (could be wrong though).

    And never use Scarf. It sucks. You can't 2hko Jirachi in rain with Fire Blast (and Moltres wants rain to function), you can't 2hko offensive Heatran and Lefties Rotom-W with Hurricane and you lose a ton of power, while gaining a very mediocre revenge killer. There are so much better scarfers out there so no real reason to use Scarf Moltres over any of them. But Specs has a clear niche so stick to that...
  25. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

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    i have found giving moltress hurricane and fire blast on a non weather team works pretty well, the reason being is moltress is freee to pick and chose what stab it uses on what weather and be free to take advantage of the weather the opponent takes up if your team dose not desire a weather inducer. flying hits grass, fighting bug , 2 of which fire hits already and the later of which is balanced by the fact most fighting types bar kedldeo either are neautral and would fial to be koed by hurricane such as terrakion, are weak to fire normally, lucario and breloom and or can't do shit to moltress infernape w/o stone edge with keldeo who for some reason is very rarely used atm being the only exception.

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