Gen 1 Monotype RBY

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Captain Evil, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Captain Evil

    Captain Evil

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    Inspired by the recent "abnormal RBY", I got this idea about competitive RBY with teams consisting of six Pokémon of the same type. Obviously, you would almost certainly see an awful lot of teams consisting of Alakazam, Exeggutor, Starmie, Jynx, Slowbro and Hypno, but I believe there would be competition from Normal-type teams and perhaps Water-type teams as well.

    What would a good Normal or a good Water team be like, and are there other types that could potentially prove themselves viable?
  2. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Tauros/Chansey/Snorlax/Persian/Clefable/Dodrio

    Or something like that. Maybe Kanga over Dodrio.

    First 3 are all you really need, though.

    Water would be p. bad tbqh.

    EDIT: I guess if you wanted to give mono-water a go, it'd look something like Slowbro/Starmie/Lapras/Cloyster/Tentacruel/Gyarados. Maybe Kingler over Tentacruel or Gyarados. Good luck not dying to Zapdos, though.
  3. magic9mushroom

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    Monotype Psychic is the strongest, without a shadow of a doubt. Mewtwo/Mew/Exeggutor/Slowbro/Starmie with either Zam or Jynx in the last slot. That's a decent Ubers team even without the monotype restriction.

    If we're banning Mewtwo and Mew, then it comes down to Normal, Poison, Flying, and... probably still Psychic.

    Mono-Normal is pretty much as Jorgen said. Give Chansey and Clefable Sing so you can sleep.

    Mono-Poison is about abusing Poison's massive dual-type coverage. Victreebel, Nidoking, Gengar, Tentacruel gives you some pretty balanced coverage except against Psychic, and gets you two sleepers (of which one is fast and one reliable) as well as two Wrappers. You'd probably also want Weezing for Boom.

    Monotype Flying is pretty simple - you get all three legendary birds, plus Dragonite. Dodrio's got one nasty Hyper Beam, and maybe add Butterfree for sleeping.

    Monotype Psychic is, again, pretty simple, since without Ubers there are only 7 to choose from and Mr. Mime is terrible.
  4. Captain Evil

    Captain Evil

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    Zapdos won't be that much of a problem, I think, as Electric teams would be virtually nonexistent and Flying teams rather uncommon. However, as magic9mushroom states, a Flying team might well work.
  5. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I might have misunderstood the OP, I was assuming this was something where you make a monotype team to compete with standards. A whole monotype metagame isn't really something I've ever considered in RBY, especially since there's a huge disparity between the ability of Psychic/Normal-type Pokemon to stand up to anything the game has to offer relative to Pokemon of any other type.
  6. Longfellow

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    Ice also sounds decent.
  7. SSJDennis

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    Ground can be done. Nidoking, Dugtrio, Golem, Marowak, Rhydon and Sandslash? Dugtrio and Nidoking should take care of Water types I guess. Or was Nidoking mono poison back in the day? Even Nidoqueen can come along. Thunderbolt FTW?
  8. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    There are only 5 Ice-types - Lapras, Cloyster, Dewgong, Jynx, and Articuno.

    Exeggutor counters your team. It hits every single pokemon with a SE STAB attack, and the only one that can do anything back is Nidoking with an unSTABbed Ice Beam. Likewise, Starmie hits everything for SE with STAB Surf and outspeeds everything but Dugtrio. Heck, even a Flying team could kill them off with Articuno and Surf Dragonite, or a Poison team with Surf Tentacruel.
  9. Longfellow

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    Only five Pokémon isn't a problem—just bring five Pokémon.
  10. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
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    We used to play mono-rby with Psychic and Normal banned. It leaves you basically choosing between Poison, Water and Electric.

    Electric loses to heavily anti-electric Poison, Poison can kinda go either way, but it will probably lose to Starmie anyway, and trying to beat Water with Poison hurts your ability to beat Electric, which wasnt exactly a free win at the best of times. Ground is an even more anti-electric/water weak poison, and Rock is a much worse Ground. Grass isnt really good enough, though maybe with wrap it might have a bit more to it. Ice is Water except that it loses to Water, plus it only has 5 pokemon. Dragon and Ghost dont require a lot of explanation. Flying loses to electric and doesnt really have an advantage against anything else. Fire and Bug are fire and bug. Fighting doesnt really beat anything seeing as how Normal is banned.

    Maybe banning Electric could level things a bit. Or UU mono might level the playing field a bit. Certainly would make Psychic bad.

    In terms of OU, Psychic and Normal can do this easily.
  11. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Isn't Flying the only type that has Pokemon with Normal STAB?
  12. Longfellow

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    Yes, Dodrio exists. Not sure what you're getting at; Dodrio's good but it wouldn't be decisive in most matchups, which would either hew in Flying's favor because of Gyarados/Dragonite/Articuno/Zapdos's elementals or in the opposing team's favor because of weaknesses to Boltbeam.
  13. Nyara

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    I could rather ban Water/Psychic (Slowbro/Starmie) AND Kadabra/Alakazam rather than ban all Psychic types, Psychic is strong, but Poison and Figthers can have chances to win against them without Starmie/Slowbro and Kadabra/Alakazam, but at the same time they are still able to pull a strong play.

    Water's without Slowbro and Starmie could have been more balanced, too.

    The issue with the Normal Type have an easy fix, to; just ban Hyper Beam/Slash for them; they can still Double-Edge and Body Slam you, but that's far from being broken. Chansey can be really annoying to any type, but even those types without any strong physical attacker can just status it and PP stall it.

    With those minimal, yet effective changes, a monotype metagame is totally viable.

    For example even Fire types can overcome Water types with the enough luck and team play as long Starmie and Slowbro are not over there.

    Bugs are kinda weak, but can pull some things, Scyther and Pinsir mantains them usable (Scyther can clean the mess without problem, Pinsir with the support of it's pals can really wreak havoc); you're also having Spore, Sleep Powder, and Stun Powder support, so, you can play around it.

    Electrics are strong mostly thanks to Zapdos, but Zapdos is it's only thing to mantain them alive, and taking in account you can paralize or sleep him, then it's make Electrics pals a lot more easier to handle. Jolteon is also an issue, but it's paper thin defenses show up with strength.

    Figthers are just 5 (6 with Machoke), but they can play around, Hitmonlee outspeeds almost any not flying/electric team and can really leave dents on anything, while Machamp can take a hit or two and can say hello with Rock Slide, Hitmochan can help you to Body Slam things for Machamp, Poliwrath is there for extra coverage and for the sleep, and Primeape outspeed almost anything without need of paralize, and Machoke is a mini-Machamp that can work with paralize support.

    Fire have some issues, but they can play around without any major trouble, Charizard and Moltres are it's main prime forces, Moltres can just Fire Spin sweep, while Charizard can setup Sword Dance and sweep. Ninetales and Magmar can Confuse Ray things and punch back, Arcanine have great stats and can use them against anything neutral or even aim for the burn or paralize and defend itself even stronger with Reflect. Rapidash can aim for a Fire Spin support or sweep and support with Body Slam, and Flareon can take any hit, and stricke back with an strong STAB or Hyper Beam/Body Slam, and it can use Quick Attack to finish off weak things, too.

    Flying have great things, Zapdos, Articuno and Moltres, and even Dragonite, that's pretty much all, but Zapdos is the unique thing you'll have to worry, anyway, just paralize or Agility on the face of Dragonite, Moltres and Articuno fails at random Rock Slides and Thunderbolts, and that's pretty much. Aerodactyl is there to counter Normal types, and Gyarados to keep some types at the bay, you can even use Dodrio, Charizard, or Scyther as supporters, and you have a sleep shoot with Butterfree, too.

    Grass strugles hard, they do at least have Exeggutor and Parasect; the first can counter so many things, while the second can give you a free sleep. Tangela can help Exeggutor to wall better some threats, and while there're not fast plants at all, almost all of them can use Stun Powder to win the advantage against key threats like the legendary birds.

    Ground is nice, Dugtrio can check Moltres and Articuno like a king, and Zapdos can't do anything at all, you have Golem and Rhydon, and you can sweep with Sandlash, and support a lot with the Nidos. The problem is this team struggles hard and badly against water, and they don't do a very good job against Grass, Fire, Ice, and Psychic.

    Ice is... well, excelent, mixed, you have Articuno, some Water / Ice pals, and Jynx. It's problem's is against Electric and Fire, as they can't do too much at all about them. Lapras and Articuno should be used with too much care as they are the key members from Ice. They do ok or good against all the other types.

    Normal with my propositions could still be really good, as Tauro's Body Slam stricke hard, and Snorlax is Snorlax, and Chansey is Chansey, but without Slash and Hyper Beam, they may have problems to stricked with enough power to some threats, still, they had all what is needed to overcome each type, but you need an extra plan for Electrics, specially Zapdos, as you need to take hits and stricke back hard.

    Poison had too much variety, and with Psychic somewhat debuffed, they can stricke back with the enough team play, Tentacruel and Gengar are vital as they outspeed a huge number of threats, and you have an awesome mixed bag of options, just try to carry a Nido for Zapdos.

    Psychic, still strong, and Abra will be your main cleanner most of the time, take use of the Sleep with Jynx, try to mantain alive Hypno and Exeggutor, as they are your principal walls, and try to end fast your opponent, beware of paralisis and Zapdos; Thunder Wave or Sleep it with Hypno.

    Rock is a mixed experience, you had Golem and Rhydon, and they are good to counter and check some types, Kabutops and Omastar makes you not-so-weak to Water and Ice, so, beware of how you use them, Aerodactyl is your best cleanner, and is your best option against Grass, and Onix can aim for a Bind Sweep... or just Explode, yeah, just Explode it.

    Water without Starmie/Slowbro feels bad, but they can still do huge things against almost any type, it's main concern is Electric, they really have problems against them, try to Body Slam them to the oblivion, it's mostly your unique chance, and try to use for good your sleep. They do also have problems against Zapdos, so, if you have a flying team, try to beat Zapdos at any cost.

    Well... that's what I seen about each type if that meta ends to happen, Electric and Flying have the most powerful offerts as Electric only fears to Earthquakes and can stricke hard and fast to almost any type not called Rock/Ground, while Flying had the legendary birds and Dragonite, fear. Normals are still good along with Rock, Poison, and Psychic for it's good variety and ways to handle at some degree any type, but they are not masters against something, too. The other types can also have chances against almost any type, and are pretty decent with the suggested bans, but Grass is at the end really loyal to it's resistance/strongs, as they have almost no chance against what they are weak, and they have great chance against what they are strong.
  14. SHUCKLE MAN

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    For a Rock team I think Graveler is a better option than Onix, especially if Bind is banned.
  15. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Why would Bind be banned?

    (Protip: Bind Onix is terrible anyway. 70% accuracy, terrible Attack and no STAB on Bind, 2HKOed or OHKOed by every specialist in existence, no Agility or Thunder Wave...)
  16. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados

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    It may be banned because some tournaments ban wrap moves, as no one likes playing against them :P
  17. Nyara

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    Oh, yeah, Graveler sounds a lot better than Onix, I did forgot about him for a second.
  18. magic9mushroom

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    Well, to be more precise, no-one likes to play against a set-up and un-statused AgiliWrap Dragonite if they don't have Gengar, and because some don't recognise Wrap as a legitimate tactic, they don't bother to defend against it and then whine about it when that scenario occurs.
  19. Nyara

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    1. Wrap is a bug. But with a single difference; is a bug of a bug, that can multiply it's power with other bug, in other words, with AgiliWrap Dragonite, you're abussing of 3 bugs at the same time, that's a bit different as it's the unique combination of 3 bugs at the same time, so, you can even see it so glitched that is similar to use a glitchmon like Missigno, and stuff.

    2. Some people doesn't care about those bugs, but even then, AgiliWrap doesn't have "surefire counters", the unique things inmune to it are Gengar/Haunter/Gastly, and they CAN'T beat Dragonite 1vs1 unless you reserve your Sleep Clause for it, and if you fail a single hypnosis (40% of chance), you losed the game. Paralize? Somewhat, but Agility neutralizes the drop of speed. Hard hitters? Only Jynx and Lapras can make it suffer, but they suffer a lot by hands of Dragonite, and they have to double-switch with him as they can't switch-in. Explode? He survive weak explosions, and can just switch-out with the strongers. Sleep? Your unique way to "check" it, 60-75% chance, but Dragonite can just switch-out, make a partner absorb the sleep, and claim it's autowin. So, yeah, if you call "bother to defend against Wrap" by using a team of 6 strong exploders as your unique way to avoid the high chance of autolose, or praying for a miss (low chance), then I don't know, good luck? Paralysis still help a bunch, but even with that, Dragonite can still K.O at least 1 or 2 Pokémon with not need of high luck, and with Wrap allowed, you can just use a second wrapper like Agiliwrap Dragonair, and most probably sweep.

    Even Mewtwo lose at the hands of Agiliwrap Dragonite, and Mewtwo is not able to "suresweep" always as Dragonite can with minimal luck, so, Agiliwrap Dragonite is even stronger than the uber, I think that's more than enough for a ban. It's just "I push the victory button, and I have a 75%+ chance of autowin, yay", so, it's not even healthy, as it's hardly different from things like the OHKO moves (protip: Wrap is stronger).

    3. Wrap moves without Agility are far from being broken on it's own, as you can just switch between faster Pokémon and aiming for the miss, and then punish him, but they are still strong. And it's variants are far from being broken, too, as your chances to sweep are pretty shaky, and it's users are not as great, powerful, or fast, but AgiliMoltres is almost as dangerous than AgiliDragonite, but with less chance of success (still high).
  20. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    The hell?

    Dragonite has what, a 4-5HKO with Blizzard vs. a guaranteed 4HKO with Night Shade?

    Thunder Wave is still a more-than-1for1 trade in moves.

    Lapras can't switch into Dragonite? Lapras switches into Dragonite just fine. So does Cloyster.

    Point me to where I said "sleep checks Dragonite"...?

    (I mean, obviously it does, but Sleep Clause makes it irrelevant as you pointed out.)

    Or, y'know, use Rhydon and PP-stall it, or have Gengar and hit it with something to put it in 3HKO range as it sets up, or fake it into Hyper Beaming Cloyster, or hit it with paralysis as it sets up and then Rest or Recover-loop it?

    (I've successfully walled Dragonite with Withdraw Slowbro before. That was kinda hilarious.)

    Dragonite doesn't switch into much besides Snorlax or Goldon, and even those aren't completely safe.

    Have you actually ever used Dragonite against a good player? I have, and it's almost as hard to use as Slowbro. The main difference is that crappy players still generally have a clue about how to beat Slowbro, while they just sit there and die to Dragonite. As you clearly do.

    Cloyster's good, being basically an RBY U-turner, but it's not very threatening on its own.

    Your mention of AgiliSpin Moltres as a credible sweeper threat has just made you lose all credibility, btw. :P
  21. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados

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    I've never seen anybody defend wrap as much as you do. It *is* glitched in RBY, and so is Agility when combined with paralysis, so not sure why you're attacking Nyara for pointing that out. Either way, this is getting off-topic; you could probably start a thread for "Is wrap a legit strategy?" and people could go on all day about it there.
  22. Borat

    Borat

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    Dude just stop.
  23. Nyara

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    Just for ending the thread, what is different on Wrap of OHKO moves, multi-sleeping (no sleep clause), and evasion moves? I'll just leave that there, I agree 100% if OHKO moves are not banned, sleep clause is not active, and evasion moves are allowed, Wrap should also be allowed, but they aren't, and that's for it's huge gamebreaking mechanics based just on luck. Now, if you want to answer that, create a new topic here, because you're derailing this one.

    Oh, well.
  24. magic9mushroom

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    I made a new thread, but someone merged it into SQSA. I have no clue why.
  25. Dre89

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    To person who said wrap is a bug, there are a lot of buys in RBY that we still play with.

    Aginite is soft countered by gengar or goldom, and is hard countered by the combination of the two. Being countered by two OU pokemon automatically makes it much less of a threat than say tauros or snorlax and therefore not banworthy.

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