Monotype Viability Rankings

[Swede]

This week's Pokemon:

Gastrodon: A necessary Pokemon on any serious Ground team, Storm Drain allows it to not only absorb Water attacks (a dreaded scenario for Ground) but to raise its special attack, allowing for moves such as Scald and Earth Power to hit well and hard. Ice neutrality is also a nice bonus, and the fact that it can be switched in to counter many offensive threats such as Keldeo (not running sub), Kyurem-B, and non-Grass Knot Greninja makes it a very reliable option, and gives it very unique presence on Ground mono. While Grass attacks are a sore spot, there are at least a few decent Ground Mons that can switch in to take a Giga Drain or Grass Knot. Toxic + Recover stall is another role Gastro can perform if needed, though shouldn't be set up on for the fact that it won't take +2 neutral hits well, and is too slow to Recover quickly enough to keep the stall going when attacked with powerful hits.

It will mainly be taken advantage of by anything that has Grass moves or uses sub, but it fills its advantageous role on Ground very well, and for that reason I'm going to give it A Rank.

I'm not well versed with Crobat and Lanturn, so I'll pass on those for now unless I get some better knowledge and experience with them.

I did some little stuff with Crobat, so I'll offer my two cents.

Crobat: Perhaps Poison's fastest (and most frail) viable Pokemon out there, Crobat can perform two useful roles as an Anti-Lead (access to one of the fastest Taunts in the Meta, strong attacks in Brave Bird and Superfang, and disrupt with quick Confuse Ray and Roost) and Offensive Pivot (switching in on Ground attacks and either Brave-Birding or U-Turning). Because it's pure offensive capabilities are generally limited to Brave Bird (with considerable recoil) and Cross Poison (not really recommended as Pokemon such as Sniper Drapion can better take advantage of it, it won't counter its weaknesses or generally provide more damage than Brave Bird), there's no point in considering it as a sweeper in any sort. It can also defog, which is certainly nice (even though as AFD pointed out Skuntank is available and can block Psychic, it can't do much else but Sucker Punch and generally isn't worth a spot in itself on a team of only six).

In the case of dealing with Electric and Rock types, the best remedy would be to Nidoking, Nidoqueen, or Venusaur with fast U-Turn, so it definitely can be covered by its teammates (same applies to Psychic with Drapion). It's ability Infiltrator is decent to get past subs and the occasional Reflect, while Inner Focus is generally useless as it will outspeed almost anything with flinch chance (besides Fake Out, making it a good M-Cham counter).

My main gripe with Crobat is that it is frail as heck and is susceptible to almost all hard-hitting neutral attackers, making it tough to enter in as Pivot without the assurance that it resists or is immune, and has the problem of Stealth Rock if Tentacruel isn't an option to get rid of them. Common Offensive Pokemon like Terrakion, Tyranitar, Greninja, and Latios give it problems, three of which can outspeed U-Turn and need to be properly handled by teammates.

Overall, I'd consider Crobat to be a solid Poison addition that can perform two great roles, but needs some hazard support (Pivot) and max speed to get the job done. Does it play a good role against Psychic and Ground? Yes. Does it influence the metagame? Yes. Does it fill a ton of roles? No. Is it predictable? Perhaps. Does it define the metagame? No. For these reasons I give Crobat A Rank.

Shoutout to the Smog Issue 8 and Clearly for advice/ideas on what to say.

 

[n64lord]

Reserving Bronzong, Jolteon, and Machamp.

 

[scpinion]

Week 2:

This will end on October 4th

Things to think about while ranking:
​

-Does this Pokemon need to stay, move up, or down?
-How does this Pokemon fare in the metagame?
-What is this Pokemon walled by? Can your teammates successfully check / counter it?
-What is this Pokemon's role. Is it outclassed by other Pokemon? Is this role useful for its type?
-Is its ability beneficial? Do other Pokemon outclass it?

This Week's Pokemon!

(Ground) Gastrodon (Currently B Rank)
Orignal Post

(Poison) Crobat (Currently S Rank)
Original Post

(Water) Lanturn (Currently A Tier)
Original Post
​

​

Gastrodon (Ground): A rank. Most of the relevant arguments for moving Gastrodon up have already been listed out in previous posts. Most importantly, it is the bulkiest of the water immunities and has access to reliable recovery. I think we all agree B rank is too low for something so valuable to a ground team; however, the question is A or S rank.

S rank is meant for pokemon that define the metagame and Gastrodon is certainly not a metagame defining 'mon. At no point does one think "I should really make sure I have a good answer to Gastrodon for when I play ground teams". We're more worried about the Hippo, Exca, Lando-I and Garchomp (of these, only Lando-I is currently S-rank). While in the type matchup it is meant to counter, Gastro often ends up being set-up bait for a Gyarados to sweep the rest of the team.

Furthermore, I have watched many of DM35's matches, one of the best ground users in our community, over the last month or so. During the matches, I often joked about how often he foddered Gastrodon just to offer a safe switch for something else on his team. Something that routinely takes the role of first 'mon foddered off doesn't warrant the prestigious S rank.

Finally, I liken Gastrodon's role on a Ground team to that of Torkoal on Fire a team. It is chosen because the type has essentially no other options for the much-needed support it provides. As a community, we restricted Torkoal to A rank. I see no reason to move Gastrodon beyond A rank as well, especially given it does not even have the "uniqueness" factor that Torkoal does.


Crobat (Poison): A/B rank. I do not have enough experience playing with, or against, Crobat to make an informed decision of the specific ranking, but I am confident it is not S rank. Thus, I will abstain from the A/B discussion, but will contribute should there be a significant debate on whether it is S rank.


Lanturn (Water): A rank. Lanturn is right at home in A rank alongside the multitude of other options Water teams have to form their defensive core. Sae's post on Lanturn contains all the relevant facts on Lanturn's usefulness: Electric immunity, large HP stat, no 4x grass weakness, etc. Water teams require an electric immunity to be successful and Lanturn is one of the 3 main options, Swampert and Quagsire being the others. While each share the common, primary role of an electric immunity, they serve vastly different ancillary roles, which prevents any from distinguishing itself in a significant manner over the others. Your play style and team build will dictate their usefulness, so each should share the same rank. S rank is too high because each requires support to be successful, while B rank is too low b/c of the importance of an electric immunity w/ other useful characteristics.

 

[all falls down]

I'm making a list partially as a reference for myself for Pokemon that should move ranks(I will make posts for a lot of these).

Feel free to comment on if you agree with any of these

Pokemon That Should Move

Deoxys-S S->A
Garchomp (dragon) S->A EDIT: Garchomp can stay S
Cinccino A->C
Ambipom A->C
Mega Medicham (fighting) A->S
Lucario (fighting) A->B
Honchkrow (flying) A->B
Nidoking (poison) A->B EDIT: Nidoking can stay A
Excadrill (ground) A->S
Durant (steel) A->B
Politoed A->B
Electivire A->B
Slowbro(psychic) A->S
Azumarill (fairy) A->S
Furfou B->D
Xatu (flying) B->D
Venomoth (poison) B->C
Gastrodon (ground) B->A
Volcarona (bug) B->A
Mega Heracross (bug) B->A
Sourgiest-super (ghost) B->D EDIT: B->C
Slurpuff B->D
Poliwrath (fighting) C->D
Sawk (fighting) C->D
Murkrow (flying) C->D
Crobat (flying) C->D
Torterra (ground) C->D
Sandslash C->D
Qwilfish (water) C->D
Gorebyss C->D
Wobboffet D->C
Swadloon D->UNLISTED

 

[Acast]

I'm making a list partially as a reference for myself for Pokemon that should move ranks(I will make posts for a lot of these).

Feel free to comment on if you agree with any of these

Pokemon That Should Move

Deoxys-S S->A
Garchomp (dragon) S->A
Cinccino A->C
Ambipom A->C
Mega Medicham (fighting) A->S
Lucario (fighting) A->B
Honchkrow (flying) A->B
Nidoking (poison) A->B
Excadrill (ground) A->S
Durant (steel) A->B
Politoed A->B
Electivire A->B
Slowbro(psychic) A->S
Azumarill (fairy) A->S
Furfou B->D
Xatu (flying) B->D
Venomoth (poison) B->C
Gastrodon (ground) B->A
Volcarona (bug) B->A
Mega Heracross (bug) B->A
Sourgiest-super (ghost) B->D
Slurpuff B->D
Poliwrath (fighting) C->D
Sawk (fighting) C->D
Murkrow (flying) C->D
Crobat (flying) C->D
Torterra (ground) C->D
Sandslash C->D
Qwilfish (water) C->D
Gorebyss C->D
Wobboffet D->C
Swadloon D->UNLISTED

I agree with all of your changes except for these three:

-Electivire
Probably the best physical attacker Electric has and one of the only ways for Electric to get around bulky Normal teams. It should stay A rank.

-Gastrodon (Ground)
I agree that it should be raised in rank, but I think A might be too low. Gastrodon's Water immunity is invaluable to Ground. It's more deserving of S rank.

-Gourgeist (Ghost)
We already discussed Gourgeist at length a while ago and I think we more or less agreed that it should be C rank. Here was my last post regarding Gourgeist's ranking

I admit I might have aimed a little bit too high on Gourgeist, but I am adamant that it is not D rank. (In Grass I admit it's E rank, but we're talking about on Ghost). I can live with C but if we are going to be placing Gourgeist any lower than C, it won't be with my agreement. Yes, Gourgeist does take a bit more skill and experience to use than Trevenant does, but once you know how to use it, Gourgeist can and does do better than Trevenant as the Grass/Ghost type of the team. The only reason I'm willing to lower it to C is because of Sae's point about this being for new battlers. If you're a new battler, Trevenant is undeniably easier to use, but I stand firm that with some experience, Gourgeist plays the role of a wall much better than Trevenant ever could.

 

[all falls down]

I agree with all of your changes except for these three:


-Electivire
Probably the best physical attacker Electric has and one of the only ways for Electric to get around bulky Normal teams. It should stay A rank.

-Gastrodon (Ground)
I agree that it should be raised in rank, but I think A might be too low. Gastrodon's Water immunity is invaluable to Ground. It's more deserving of S rank.

-Gourgeist (Ghost)
We already discussed Gourgeist at length a while ago and I think we more or less agreed that it should be C rank. Here was my last post regarding Gourgeist's ranking

Ah right I forgot about Gourgeist, I'll edit that. Gastrodon is one of the Pokemon of the week, so I'll see where the next few posts leaves us for it.

For Electivire though,

Electivire is actually very weak, and your point of it getting around bulky Normal teams is questionable;
252 Atk Life Orb Electivire Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 143-169 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Electivire Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

As it can't even 2HKO Porygon with a damage-boosting item and a high BP Super Effective move, not to mention that Cross Chop is as accurate as Stone Edge, It really doesn't help with the Normal situation.

What does really help vs the Normal situation is pokemon with knock off (Eelektross and Thundurus), and I'm inclined to put Electivire in B rank because while it is one of the few physical attackers Electric has, it is quite bad of a Pokemon as it is both frail and weak offensively, and knocking off a troublesome wall's item is generally a more effective and permanent solution to the problem.

((Without Eviolite)

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey: 328-388 (46.5 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey: 320-377 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 37.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 619-728 (87.9 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Eelektross Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 328-386 (46.5 - 54.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Porygon2: 358-422 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Eelektross Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Porygon2: 128-152 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Anttya]

I'm making a list partially as a reference for myself for Pokemon that should move ranks(I will make posts for a lot of these).

Feel free to comment on if you agree with any of these

Pokemon That Should Move

Deoxys-S S->A
Garchomp (dragon) S->A
Cinccino A->C
Ambipom A->C
Mega Medicham (fighting) A->S
Lucario (fighting) A->B
Honchkrow (flying) A->B
Nidoking (poison) A->B
Excadrill (ground) A->S
Durant (steel) A->B
Politoed A->B
Electivire A->B
Slowbro(psychic) A->S
Azumarill (fairy) A->S
Furfou B->D
Xatu (flying) B->D
Venomoth (poison) B->C
Gastrodon (ground) B->A
Volcarona (bug) B->A
Mega Heracross (bug) B->A
Sourgiest-super (ghost) B->D EDIT: B->C
Slurpuff B->D
Poliwrath (fighting) C->D
Sawk (fighting) C->D
Murkrow (flying) C->D
Crobat (flying) C->D
Torterra (ground) C->D
Sandslash C->D
Qwilfish (water) C->D
Gorebyss C->D
Wobboffet D->C
Swadloon D->UNLISTED

Garchomp (Ground)

I agree w/ most of these, but why should Garchomp (Dragon) move down? It's Dragon's best Fairy killer since EQ hits almost as hard as Iron Head, and it gets STAB to hit Klefiki / Mawile. (It gets a T-wave immunity along the way as well, and Chomp as the bulk to live a Sucker Punch.) Garchomp is also the fastest viable scarf Dragon aside from Latios (they usually run Specs anyways) so it helps immensely w/ Dragon vs Dragon matchups.

I think it should be S Rank because of those reasons

Furfrou

I can agree w/ Furfrou moving down, but I feel like D's a little too harsh. It has its own niches and it does them extremely well. It's a pretty good solution against Physical teams such as Ground and Fighting since it will almost always set up a Cotton Guard before the opponent can attack.

I think C Rank would be a better rank for Furfrou.

Slurpuff

Slurpuff's a gimmick, but once you set it up it's extremely hard to stop. Fairy gets Screens as well so you can have an easier time setting up.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 334-394 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's not impressive, but not every team has access to something as bulky as Mew / Slowbro / Skarm. But Slurpuff is almost always used as a late game sweeper. Either way, Mew / Slowbro can't do anything to Slurpuff since it can get being a Substitute and Scald fails to break it in one hit w/ Light Screen.

I think it should be moved down, but not to D rank. I think C Rank would be good.

Nidoking (Poison)

Why move Nidoking down? Nidoking alone can 6-0 Defensive Steel Monotypes w/ a combination of Flamethrower and Earth Power. Ice Beam and Sludge Wave 2HKOs the OP Togekiss / Zapdos / Skarmory core, and Earth Power hits Defensive Charizard-X. A scarf can also be attached to it to get surprise kills on stuff like Landorus and Greninja.
Personally, I think Nidoking's kinda anti-meta and it's good at its job. It's just a slower Lando-I but w/ more coverage.

I think Nidoking should stay at A Rank

I'm fine w/ Volcarona being A rank, but at the same time I feel like it should be B Rank.

I can always give out more arguments if need be, I'm just too lazy to type them all out atm

 

[all falls down]

EDIT: SORRY FOR MY HUGE POST ;-;

Garchomp (Ground)

I agree w/ most of these, but why should Garchomp (Dragon) move down? It's Dragon's best Fairy killer since EQ hits almost as hard as Iron Head, and it gets STAB to hit Klefiki / Mawile. (It gets a T-wave immunity along the way as well, and Chomp as the bulk to live a Sucker Punch.) Garchomp is also the fastest viable scarf Dragon aside from Latios (they usually run Specs anyways) so it helps immensely w/ Dragon vs Dragon matchups.

I think it should be S Rank because of those reasons

Furfrou

I can agree w/ Furfrou moving down, but I feel like D's a little too harsh. It has its own niches and it does them extremely well. It's a pretty good solution against Physical teams such as Ground and Fighting since it will almost always set up a Cotton Guard before the opponent can attack.

I think C Rank would be a better rank for Furfrou.

Slurpuff

Slurpuff's a gimmick, but once you set it up it's extremely hard to stop. Fairy gets Screens as well so you can have an easier time setting up.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 334-394 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's not impressive, but not every team has access to something as bulky as Mew / Slowbro / Skarm. But Slurpuff is almost always used as a late game sweeper. Either way, Mew / Slowbro can't do anything to Slurpuff since it can get being a Substitute and Scald fails to break it in one hit w/ Light Screen.

I think it should be moved down, but not to D rank. I think C Rank would be good.

Nidoking (Poison)

Why move Nidoking down? Nidoking alone can 6-0 Defensive Steel Monotypes w/ a combination of Flamethrower and Earth Power. Ice Beam and Sludge Wave 2HKOs the OP Togekiss / Zapdos / Skarmory core, and Earth Power hits Defensive Charizard-X. A scarf can also be attached to it to get surprise kills on stuff like Landorus and Greninja.
Personally, I think Nidoking's kinda anti-meta and it's good at its job. It's just a slower Lando-I but w/ more coverage.

I think Nidoking should stay at A Rank

I'm fine w/ Volcarona being A rank, but at the same time I feel like it should be B Rank.

I can always give out more arguments if need be, I'm just too lazy to type them all out atm

I'll work backwords

Nidoking (Poison)
Nidoking does have good coverage, but it also has that poor speed and poor bulk (Pokemon with both of these traits usually have huge problems). Its speed really stops it from being A rank in my opinion because it can easily get outsped and OHKOd by many things on both Steel and Flying, like Excadrill, Charizard, Landorus, and more, allowing it to be easily revenge killed. With its bad defensive stats, it really can't switch in on anything aside from a resisted or immunized move, meaning that it won't be much of a help aside from against the monotypes you listed, along with Fairy. And even fairy can revenge kill if its weakened with Mawile or Azumarill, or scarfed Gardevoir.

Poison does need a stealth rock user, but Nidoqueen is usually preferred because of its better bulk, and bulky Nidoqueen can help form a core with other poison Pokemon, and having Nidoking and Nidoqueen on the same team is usually redundant.

Nidoking, while having good coverage, cannot keep up with the metagame well enough to belong to A rank, and so I think it should be B Rank.

Slurpuff
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are outclassed in almost every single way. These Pokemon are only used for one of their moves, or for their typing / ability. Even so, they are generally second rate Pokemon meaning that they can be only brought in once or twice to perform their role. These Pokemon rarely adapt to the metagame.

Looking at this explanation of D rank, Slurpuff fits perfectly. It has outclassed as a calm minder to the countless other Pokemon on Fairy teams that can calm mind (Gardevoir, Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon, Clefable, Florges...), all of whom also have the bulk and coverage to boot. As a belly drummer or just physical attacker, Slurpuff is outclassed by Azumarill and Mawile. You might say that Azumarill relies on priority , but Slurpuff relies on play rough because of its awful physical coverage, and Azumarill's aqua jet is stronger anyways, along with Azumarill's impressive coverage and ability to hit hard right off the bat. It will find very very few opportunities to set up because of its terrible bulk, and it is walled by every steel type pokemon that exists, along with a majority of fire types and poison types because of its mono fairy attacking; unSTAB return simply does not hit hard enough. Because of this, it can be very easily revenge killed.

Looking at the D-Rank definiton once more, "these Pokemon are only used for one of their moves, or for their typing / ability." This also ties in perfectly because Slurpuff is only used for Unburden and Belly drum.

This brings me to the final point of the explanation of D rank; "second rate Pokemon meaning that they can be only brought in once or twice to perform their role" its role is to belly drum and attempt a sweep, it can only do this once, and it can certainly not revenge killer or do anything else besides this gimmick.

Slurpuff is a bad Pokemon in OU monotype, and I believe it shouldn't go higher than D Rank.


Furfrou
You say it has its niches and performs well in them -- What exactly are these niches?

Porygon2 is better in nearly every way as a physically defensive wall, all while having good special attack with amazing boltbeam coverage that can both wall and dish out damage to many monotypes. Miltank is another superior physically defensive wall, having a niche of being able to sponge Victini's v-create because of thick fat as an added benefit, along with setting the stealth rocks near unique to normal monotypes. Furfrou also has no reliable recovery, which is a pretty big deal to be an effective wall.

Furfrou fits the "These Pokemon are only used for one of their moves, or for their typing / ability." description because it is only used for Fur Coat and a gimmicky Cotton Guard. Porygon2 can switch into moves much better with its superior bulk, with the added benefit of the occasional Trace troll (e.g flash fire Chandelure, intimidate users).

Furfrou is just outclassed and is usually just used for amusement with troll sets of Cotton guard, so I think it belongs in D Rank.

Garchomp (Ground)
Nearly every dragon gets earthquake. Nearly every dragon gets either poison jab or iron head. Garchomp may help slightly in a fairy matchup, but I don't think that it should put it to S rank by itself. S rank is the highest rank reserved for the stars of the metagame. Garchomp is good, and is probably the most common scarf user on a Dragon team, but it has many problems. For one, it shares the terrible 4x ice weakness that dragon monotypes loathe and build teams to avoid having, and secondly it is walled by the big threats to dragon monotypes: skarmory, slowbro, mew, and porygon2.

Don't get me wrong, Garchomp is a great Pokemon, but I just don't think that it defines the metagame at all, you dont have the slighest thought of it in teambuilding nor can it be easily switched in. Garchomp for A Rank. It's really late as I type this so I know I'm missing a lot of things in my arguments, I'll probably add more to this tomorrow.

 

[Acast]

Don't get me wrong, Garchomp is a great Pokemon, but I just don't think that it defines the metagame at all, you dont have the slighest thought of it in teambuilding nor can it be easily switched in. Garchomp for A Rank. It's really late as I type this so I know I'm missing a lot of things in my arguments, I'll probably add more to this tomorrow.

Ok I'm sorry but I'm a little bit baffled at this. People don't consider Scarfchomp when team building? What kind of metagame are you playing in? Scarfchomp is iconic. It's one of the scarf users that all other scarf users are compared to along with Terrakion and, to a lesser extent, Keldeo. It's one of the reasons to run Scarf Greninja. You also claim that it can't be easily switched in. It has 108/95/85 defenses. That's better than Zapdos which is actually used as a wall. Of course it won't be switching in on any ice moves but it could definitely take a dazzling gleam from an unboosted opponent and then KO in return.
I'm not strongly for or against lowering Garchomp's rank to A, but the arguments you've made so far are extremely flawed.

EDIT: Also, Garchomp is the only viable Dragon with STAB Earthquake. That's a big deal.

 

[Sae]

I'd actually quote your thread AFD , but I'm on my iPad as I type this and it's lagging me so I can't format with all the text.

In response to Nidoking (Poison):
If speed were the main issue with using Nidoking, then Scolipede is always an option as a partner. Useable for both being able to SubPass into Nidoking, setup hazards, or go LO to beat Psychic types, this really helps Nidoking in terms of sweeping and gaining momentum. If you can get Nidoking to +2 speed it outruns the Scarf Metagame which is all that it really has to deal with. If the issue is about bulk, Scarf Excadrill is checked well enough by a Mega Venusaur or Amoonguss as a partner allowing Nidoking to just come in hit something, and then pivot into Mega Venusaur. Weezing allows you to check MegaZard X if you can prevent it from getting to +2 allowing you to preserve a potent sweeper. Ant then the Landorus argument...um is this even a fair argument for Nidoking when there is no true check/counter to Landorus-I on Poison?

Yet Nidoking is able to function well against these matchups by being able to gain basically a free KO. Nidoking just needs to get a safe switch into something like Skarm, Ferrothorn, or Heatran against Steel teams and then proceeds to get a free KO essentially. The ability to automatically dismantle the Steel Defensive walls is kind of a big deal, and then it can safely switch into Mega Venusaur for the incoming revenge check from Excadrill. In terms of Flying, it can outrun most Zapdos since they're mainly walls (can be argued that Zapdos can Roost stall but with SR up that may not always happen), it still beats Skarm, it outruns Dragonite and can kill if there's any prior damage, and it lives non-stab HP ice anyway so it's just enough bulk to get another kill of those things. Again the ability to dismantle an entire type's defensive core for free as there is no safe switch into it thanks to its amazing coverage is phenomenal for a type mainly used for its devensive tanks.

Now is there any Pokemon on Poison that can dismantle's the defensive cores of its weaknesses like Nidoking? If you can say yes, then by all means call it B rank. However, are they truly viable? It is for this reason I'll have to call it A rank. I'll change my vote though if anyone can prove to me if any Poison mon can do this effectively.

In response to Slurpuff (Fairy):

Okay so let's go through the list of physical Fairy types: Azumarill, Mawile, and then maybe diancie for its diamond storm but...


Well okay Fairy doesn't really use anything besides these two mons for physical offense, which could mean some newer guys would try and find the next physical thing that's viable because you know 3 physical attackers, 3 special attackers train of thought. Then Slurpuff might get some usage. Quite frankly though on Fairy it has no real point since Klefki already has Prankster Twave for Speed issues and sets up screens so Unburden isn't necessary, and yeah CM sets are all outclassed. Honestly Granbull has more function than Slurpuff, but you wouldn't see me rank that. So in terms of viability this makes Slurpuff C- but where would I round it? Sorry Ant but like I said with Acast, skill doesn't determine viability. Just because you can setup with it frequently doesn't mean everyone can lol. Slurpuff D-rank.

In response to Garchomp (Dragon):

Nope I'm gonna agree with Ant on this, not really just because it's the most potent physical Scarf to beat weaknesses, but also because it is the best Stealth Rocker Dragon has. It outclasses Druddigon with lead SR because of overall speed and power it brings to the table as well they both have the same ability in Rough Skin so there's no niche lost there. Combine that with potentially LO sets with Fire Blast, SD sets that still scare the shit out of most teams, etc. and you have one of the most diverse mons in what it brings to the table for Dragons as well as against the meta. Honestly I can somewhat agree with that when people try to counter dragon, Garchomp isn't the main problem since it's slower than Latios and it's 4x weak to ice. Still people will probably recognize that Garchomp is gonna be on like most Dragon teams meaning they still have to learn to deal with the various sets that it does.


Again prove me wrong and I'll gladly trade arguments until we come up with the ideal solution, but as it stands there is nothing stopping Garchomp from being S rank οn dragon. Maybe ground though...



In response to Furfrou (Normal),

Furfrou's main niche is to tank fighting type teams that spam Close Combat and Ground teams with EQ like Ant said. Does it outperform Staraptor though? In some ways I guess. Since Staraptor has to save a slot for Defog and Brave Bird, Furfrou gets to use that slot for Toxic to outstall stuff. They trade Roost/Rest for recovery and they trade Intimidate/Fur Coat for abilities. Key difference is: Furfrou can afford to switch in and tank hits while getting Cotton Guard up while Staraptor takes SR damage while being forced to Defog. So in terms of your more reliable Physical Wall, it'd be Furfrou. This means you get a solid special wall in Chansey, a solid physical wall in Furfrou, and then Porygon 2 can be a mix wall or either depending on your team's construction. Could a player probably just use Pory 2 instead as the physical wall? Pory 2 won't be able to take on Fighting teams, but anything neutral it can. Staraptor can BB fighting teams too so most people wouldn't even need to use Furfrou in the first place and Meloetta gets some stab to deal with threats and can Dazzling Gleam Scrafty also.

So do I think Furfrou is D rank? No. Do I think Furfrou is B rank? No. Would I put it in C-rank by default ? Eh I guess but I can lean towards D rank so I'm gonna abstain on this one.

 

[all falls down]

Ok you guys have persuaded me on Garchomp(ground) and Nidoking(poison), but my point still stands about Furfrou.

Sae Sae

"Furfrou can afford to switch in and tank hits while getting Cotton Guard up while Staraptor takes SR damage while being forced to Defog. So in terms of your more reliable Physical Wall, it'd be Furfrou."

I disagree with this statement in that Porygon-2, Staraptor, and Miltank are all more reliable than Furfrou because they can actually repeatedly switch in on moves and perform their role as a wall better with their access to reliable recovery (recover, roost, and milk drink respectively), along with having more significant niches; Staraptor has defog and still hits hard without any investment, Porygon-2 has Trace which can work very well defensively along with eviolite, BoltBeam coverage and a good special attack for a wall(105), and finally Miltank has access to stealth rock along with a very interesting ability in Thick Fat that can greatly help against the fire matchup by sponging sun-boosted physical fire moves. All Furfrou has is similar bulk, and a gimmicky Cotton Guard set.

Porygon-2 and Staraptor shine in particular due to their ability to dish out damage while still being defensive. A pokemon like Furfou with a pitiful attack stat of 80 and bad coverage, it will take forever to kill any Pokemon with no investment, and without any recovery it is easily worn down to status, phazing, and other Pokemon taunting and setting up. Furfrou may get Cotton Guard, but there is a reason that defense boosting moves aren't used often, especially on Pokemon without reliable recovery. Furfrou's only effective means of doing considerable damage is with Toxic, and this will take a lot of time to get rid of other Pokemon, allowing the other player to do basically whatever they want.

I strongly believe that Furfrou should stay in D Rank.

 

[Sae]

Ok you guys have persuaded me on Garchomp(ground) and Nidoking(poison), but my point still stands about Furfrou.

Sae Sae

"Furfrou can afford to switch in and tank hits while getting Cotton Guard up while Staraptor takes SR damage while being forced to Defog. So in terms of your more reliable Physical Wall, it'd be Furfrou."

I disagree with this statement in that Porygon-2, Staraptor, and Miltank are all more reliable than Furfrou because they can actually repeatedly switch in on moves and perform their role as a wall better with their access to reliable recovery (recover, roost, and milk drink respectively), along with having more significant niches; Staraptor has defog and still hits hard without any investment, Porygon-2 has Trace which can work very well defensively along with eviolite, BoltBeam coverage and a good special attack for a wall(105), and finally Miltank has access to stealth rock along with a very interesting ability in Thick Fat that can greatly help against the fire matchup by sponging sun-boosted physical fire moves. All Furfrou has is similar bulk, and a gimmicky Cotton Guard set.

Porygon-2 and Staraptor shine in particular due to their ability to dish out damage while still being defensive. A pokemon like Furfou with a pitiful attack stat of 80 and bad coverage, it will take forever to kill any Pokemon with no investment, and without any recovery it is easily worn down to status, phazing, and other Pokemon taunting and setting up. Furfrou may get Cotton Guard, but there is a reason that defense boosting moves aren't used often, especially on Pokemon without reliable recovery. Furfrou's only effective means of doing considerable damage is with Toxic, and this will take a lot of time to get rid of other Pokemon, allowing the other player to do basically whatever they want.

I strongly believe that Furfrou should stay in D Rank.

Okay I can actually reply to a quote now that I'm on a comp.

In response to Furfrou (Normal),

Furfrou's main niche is to tank fighting type teams that spam Close Combat and Ground teams with EQ like Ant said. Does it outperform Staraptor though? In some ways I guess. Since Staraptor has to save a slot for Defog and Brave Bird, Furfrou gets to use that slot for Toxic to outstall stuff. They trade Roost/Rest for recovery and they trade Intimidate/Fur Coat for abilities. Key difference is: Furfrou can afford to switch in and tank hits while getting Cotton Guard up while Staraptor takes SR damage while being forced to Defog. So in terms of your more reliable Physical Wall, it'd be Furfrou. This means you get a solid special wall in Chansey, a solid physical wall in Furfrou, and then Porygon 2 can be a mix wall or either depending on your team's construction. Could a player probably just use Pory 2 instead as the physical wall? Pory 2 won't be able to take on Fighting teams, but anything neutral it can. Staraptor can BB fighting teams too so most people wouldn't even need to use Furfrou in the first place and Meloetta gets some stab to deal with threats and can Dazzling Gleam Scrafty also.

So do I think Furfrou is D rank? No. Do I think Furfrou is B rank? No. Would I put it in C-rank by default ? Eh I guess but I can lean towards D rank so I'm gonna abstain on this one.

I never said that I thought that Furfrou was the better wall/tank. I probably should have bolded it in the original quote and restated it but I was referring to it being able to tank fighting type moves if given a free switch to setup (which was in my first sentence, but yeah my bad for not making that clear). In general: yes Staraptor, Miltank, and Porygon2 are better walls. I was only mentioning how neither Pory2 nor Miltank can be the tank Normal needs against Fighting types using Close Combat.

• 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 192-226 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 76-91 (21.4 - 25.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
• -1 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 118-139 (31.6 - 37.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 3HKO
  • -1 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 198-234 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 204-240 (54.5 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  
• 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Miltank: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah from these calcs none can safely switch into Terrakion. However, let's examine this as if it was a free switch.

• Furfrou doesn't die after two CC even after max damage rolls (that is 89.5% damage) meaning that it'll only die if there is SR up after two max damage rolls which is highly unlikely and without leftovers. First turn 63.9% followed by a Cotton Guard, Terrakion repeats, and now Furfrou can Rest up and do what it needs to do.
• Staraptor takes a bit more than 30% and gets proceeded to barely live from a Stone Edge next turn. This leaves Staraptor the option of A) BB and sack itself, B) Roost up and pray for a miss, or C) defog and sack. If it's there to Defog, well it's already dead since it just switched into SR. Not much else to say there.
• Porygon2 with Eviolite can also live Terrakion in two hits thanks to Recover. However, if you're still forced to Recover, you'll notice that the damage calc shows it losing more than 50% guaranteed meaning Terrakion in this case could just keep going for it while the Porygon 2 has to either go for a PP stall with Recover(which is probably manageable but not really an ideal solution since this is heavily dependent on low damage rolls), attack and go for Discharge para (not too bad an option especially after some CC spec def drops if timed correctly), or just get off a Toxic. Not really the most ideal options there.
• Miltank can't tank two no matter what it does unless it's the Curse set, and even then the turn you use to setup means Terrakion beats it.

So again, Furfrou has a niche in that it is able to tackle physical fighting types which is Normal's only weakness. Too bad nothing really prevents Keldeo from sweeping, but hey that's not the niche of this mon. Idk the ability to check it's types only weakness rather effectively after Keldeo is gone is pretty big so I still want to abstain my vote but I don't think it is D rank, and yet you're right outside of this matchup it is really limited and thus doesn't perform the ideal rank of C. It's pretty much that middle ground tbh. If there was a perfect world I'd place it C- rank rather than D+ but neither are available...

 

[Freeroamer]

Gastrodon for A Rank

Ok I was really torn on this one, I've had a lot of experience with Gastrodon, and I've generally found it's difficult to use really well as it tends to be safe switch fodder in a lot of matches, unable to keep up with the fast paced game that Ground normally brings. Also it's really difficult to EV to any one specific use, as you want a physically defensive spread to better take on Keldeo and Gyarados to an extent, but then this reduces your ability to switch in on threats such as Latios and Meloetta, who could even run Grass coverage to beat you anyway! This would normally put it lower down, but after considering that we are ranking pokemon by what they bring to their individual types, it is clear that Gastro has to be at least A. Even with it's faults, it brings unparalleled special walling to Ground and provides a safe switchin and shuts down a lot of threats that aren't running Grass coverage, as well as bringing the great immunity to Water.

Lanturn for A Rank

A lot of what needs to be said already has been, but I'll just add that Lanturn is mandatory on stall based and very prominent on bulky balance Water archetypes, both of which are premier style in the current metagame, the ability to be able to absorb special attacks, heal status and provide an effective pivot as well as the great immunity means it's a cinch for A Rank.

Also, as it looks like it's sticking around, does anyone have any objection to me reserving Gene for Bug?

 

[Anttya]

Gastrodon for A Rank

Ok I was really torn on this one, I've had a lot of experience with Gastrodon, and I've generally found it's difficult to use really well as it tends to be safe switch fodder in a lot of matches, unable to keep up with the fast paced game that Ground normally brings. Also it's really difficult to EV to any one specific use, as you want a physically defensive spread to better take on Keldeo and Gyarados to an extent, but then this reduces your ability to switch in on threats such as Latios and Meloetta, who could even run Grass coverage to beat you anyway! This would normally put it lower down, but after considering that we are ranking pokemon by what they bring to their individual types, it is clear that Gastro has to be at least A. Even with it's faults, it brings unparalleled special walling to Ground and provides a safe switchin and shuts down a lot of threats that aren't running Grass coverage, as well as bringing the great immunity to Water.

Lanturn for A Rank

A lot of what needs to be said already has been, but I'll just add that Lanturn is mandatory on stall based and very prominent on bulky balance Water archetypes, both of which are premier style in the current metagame, the ability to be able to absorb special attacks, heal status and provide an effective pivot as well as the great immunity means it's a cinch for A Rank.

Also, as it looks like it's sticking around, does anyone have any objection to me reserving Gene for Bug?

Go for it :]

Edit: Since Nani's going to be busy for the month, the recent unbans will stay for a little longer. Feel free to write Shaymin-S and Kyurem-W writeups. They'll be removed if they're banned tho :[

 

[Freeroamer]

Genesect for Ban S Rank (Bug)

Scarf Sets

Special-Based Mixed Scarf
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz / Flamethrower / Flash Cannon / Hidden Power Ground

Physical Scarf
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Blaze Kick
- Explosion / X-Scissor

Details: The infamous scarf sets Genesect is best known for, able to pivot out of unfavourable situations with it's decently powerful U-Turn, especially from the Physical set. The other moves give it great revenge killing potential, with the special set getting access to BoltBeam while Iron Head and Blaze Kick ruin many pokemon from the Physical set. The last slot on the special scarf is a decision between a STAB that comes off your invested stat and doesn't force you to switch out, more excellent coverage from Flamethrower or if you really hate Heatran, a chance to catch it on the switch with Hidden Power Ground. On the Physical set, Explosion quite literally lets Genesect go out with a bang, and hits quite hard if Download boosted while also simultaneously giving something a free switch in. X-Scissor can be useful for late-game sweeps or if you just don't want to be forced out by your Bug STAB. Full Speed and attacking stat investment for both sets, standard scarf EV spread.

Specs Set

Specs Bug
Genesect @ Choice Specs
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower / Flash Cannon / Hidden Power Ground
- Thunderbolt / Flamethrower / Flash Cannon / Hidden Power Ground

Details: Arguably the hardest hitting set Genesect can carry, this packs excellent power and coverage, and if allied with Sticky Web support, can be a terror to play against. U-Turn as always provides the pivot move that racks up hazard damage and keeps momentum. Bug Buzz is more important here than on the Scarf set, as boosted by specs, full investment and a potential Download boost, it can decimate entire teams. The last two slots are for your deciding, with BoltBeam being preferred for the best coverage. Full investment in both Speed and Special Attack with a Speed boosting nature as is standard for a Specs spread.

Band Set

Band Bug
Genesect @ Choice Band
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Blaze Kick
- Explosion

Details: A force to be reckoned with, this set has the strongest U-Turn out of any set Gene can carry, and as well as being a momentum grabber, can actually deal some potent damage. The next two slots are the standard physical options for Genesect, with Iron Head providing secondary STAB and Blaze Kick providing the best coverage. A Banded and Download boosted Explosion hits ridiculously hard and is a great way to punch a hole in a wall your team needs gone.

+1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 390-459 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

welp.

Speed Boosting Sets

Physical Based Speed Booster
Genesect @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Download
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Shift Gear
- Iron Head
- Blaze Kick
- X-Scissor / Extreme Speed / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt

Special Based Speed Booster
Genesect @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Download
EVs: 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt / Flash Cannon / Flamethrower / Hidden Power Ground
- Ice Beam / Flash Cannon / Flamethrower / Hidden Power Ground

Details: These sets take a different route to utilising Genesect, mainly by attempting to boost it's decent 99 Base Speed so it can engineer a sweep. The speed boosting moves double Genesect's speed to frightening levels, making it very hard to revenge kill, especially with it's excellent defensive typing which means it is weak to 0 priority moves. The options are fairly standard for the special set, however as U-Turn and Explosion are both seemingly counter-productive on the physical booster, a special move is an option to be ran, eg. Ice Beam can hit unsuspecting Landorus-T, Mandibuzz and Gliscor hoping to wall you.

EV spreads: For the special set, the given EVs outspeed scarfed Lati@s after a boost, with maximum Special Attack investment for damage output with the rest going into HP for some extra bulk to set up with. If you run Flamethrower, running enough Speed to outspeed Excadrill under sand is an option, in that case a spread of 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe does the job.

For the physical set, the given EVs outspeed Excadrill under sand after a boost, so you can remove it with Blaze Kick. If running one of the special moves, some or all of the HP EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to increase output.

Other Options: Pretty much everything has already been covered, Douse Drive can be an option to hit Heatran hard, but Genesect is already strapped for moveslots and HP Ground off the Specs set does the job equally well.

Explanation: A recent unban under the new Monotype Tiering system, Genesect has taken to life in the metagame like a duck to water. Capable of running many sets, all of them effective at their job, it's quite hard to predict exactly what it's going to throw at you, especially with it's tendency to spam U-Turn early game to scout the opponent's reaction and keep momentum for it's team. However it isn't all perfect, as Genesect carries what is now quite a disappointing base 99 Speed for an offensive pokemon, often necessitating either a Scarf or Webs support in order to do it's job. While it has a great Defensive typing, it is too frail to really make use of it, with the only real advantage being that it doesn't fear priority all that much. Still, it is definitely one of the premier threats in the metagame, and something every team must have an answer for.

Why S Rank? So many sets, so good at utilising them too, I don't think anyone would argue against it lol

EDIT: Just something I forgot to mention above, any set with Shift Gear, Blaze Kick or Extreme Speed must run a Hasty nature as it's event locked.

 

[Swede]

Lanturn:

Because everyone has already given the most relevant reasoning for Lanturn to stay A Rank, I'll try not to sound like an echo and simply state that if Lanturn had access to Wish, I'd seriously consider it for S Rank, and that it is a perfect compliment to Gyarados in that both cover each other's weaknesses. And now to sound like an echo, Lanturn has great HP and good Sp. Defense, Electric immunity, can reliably use Heal Bell, and has status-spreading abilities with Toxic and Thunder Wave. Also, a pretty decent special movepool that includes rarer moves such as Dazzling Gleam and Signal Beam that most viable Water 'mons don't have access to (that is, if you decide not to go for bulk-focused set and try some special moves too).

Physical Ground and Grass moves will take advantage of it, though as mentioned earlier Gyarados can switch in if available. Lanturn can't fill too many roles and doesn't require teams to make the effort of trying to counter it when in the building process, so Lanturn fits well in A Rank.

 

[Anttya]

We will talk about Scizor (Bug and S Rank), Mega Scizor (Bug and S Rank) and Torkoal (Fire and A Rank) for Week 3. Voting for Week 2 will officially end tomorrow so get in your votes. Feel free to start writing for Week 3 tho :]

Some things to think about:

- How do these Pokemon contribute to the team? Is it outclassed by something else?
- Does this Pokemon's STAB help against unfavorable matchups?
- Is this Pokemon metagame defining. Would you make sure your team has a check / counter to it?

You do not have to answer these questions. They're just here to help for newer voters ^^

 

[videogambeas1]

gastrodon vote

Gastrodon (ground)

Gastrodon has decent bulk one of best counters to Water types. Overall it is a staple one every single ground team. Overall it hleps ground too much by giving it an immunity to a common offensive type that is weak to with recovery. It main reason it is used over Seismitoad is because Gastro has reliable recovery in form of recover. reliable is a good option but Gastrodon has more bulk and reliable is better with unaware. My vote is Gastrodon goes up to A Rank. My Vote A rank

crobat vote

Crobat (poison)

Idk why it got S Rank imo it is frail and can defog which Tentacruel can rapid spin. Also i do not see it on every poison team for a reason because although it gives a ground immunity Weezing also gives it too which has access to moves like Wil-o-Wisp. The choice sets are interesting but often Nidoking can do the role better. The only reason that i would use it is for taunt and u-turn. U-turn is only niche it has the meta and taunt can be used by Skunktank. It also is weak to common types such as ice and electric. My vote is Crobat goes B rank for being a fast taunter and defog (which Tentacruel can get rid of hazards). My Vote B Rank

Lantrun vote

Lanturn (water)

Lanturn brings a heal and electric immunity to water which is very helpful.Overall the bulk it has is great at 125/58/76. Overall the special defense stat is biggest and most likely to be ev trained in. The support it provides with heal bell and t-wave is great for water and is used on most bulky water teams. Overall i propose Lanturn stays A Rank for support it provides for bulky water teams. My Vote A rank

changes i think should be made

Falls has mentioned a lot of major changes i wanted Thanks All Falls Down for that but i have a few more
Armaldo (bug) B---->A
Thundurus (Flying) S--->A
Other than those falls mentioned the other ones

 

[DoW]

View attachment 26583Carbink for C Rank (Fairy)
Carbink for C Rank (Rock)

Carbink @ Light Clay
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 88 SDef / 252 HP / 168 Def
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Explosion

Its a suicide lead that is all its good at its not really good at anthing else its stats are garbage, but it can set up dual screens, and can wall quite a bit.

Sorry if this post is 16 pages too late, but I was looking through the rankings and saw this. While Carbink had a niche at the start of gen 6, diancie coming along changed that. There are two reasons to use Carbink over Diancie: 1) You already have diancie (which not only causes a horrific steel weakness between the two of them but also makes you ask "what are you using diancie for then?") or 2) You reeeeally dislike foul play, and want it to do 5% rather than 15%. Seriously though, more explosion more better.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are outclassed in almost every single way

For this reason, I think it fits D rank well.

 

[Tyke]

I did some little stuff with Crobat, so I'll offer my two cents.

Crobat: Perhaps Poison's fastest (and most frail) viable Pokemon out there, Crobat can perform two useful roles as an Anti-Lead (access to one of the fastest Taunts in the Meta, strong attacks in Brave Bird and Superfang, and disrupt with quick Confuse Ray and Roost) and Offensive Pivot (switching in on Ground attacks and either Brave-Birding or U-Turning). Because it's pure offensive capabilities are generally limited to Brave Bird (with considerable recoil) and Cross Poison (not really recommended as Pokemon such as Sniper Drapion can better take advantage of it, it won't counter its weaknesses or generally provide more damage than Brave Bird), there's no point in considering it as a sweeper in any sort. It can also defog, which is certainly nice (even though as AFD pointed out Skuntank is available and can block Psychic, it can't do much else but Sucker Punch and generally isn't worth a spot in itself on a team of only six).

In the case of dealing with Electric and Rock types, the best remedy would be to Nidoking, Nidoqueen, or Venusaur with fast U-Turn, so it definitely can be covered by its teammates (same applies to Psychic with Drapion). It's ability Infiltrator is decent to get past subs and the occasional Reflect, while Inner Focus is generally useless as it will outspeed almost anything with flinch chance (besides Fake Out, making it a good M-Cham counter).

My main gripe with Crobat is that it is frail as heck and is susceptible to almost all hard-hitting neutral attackers, making it tough to enter in as Pivot without the assurance that it resists or is immune, and has the problem of Stealth Rock if Tentacruel isn't an option to get rid of them. Common Offensive Pokemon like Terrakion, Tyranitar, Greninja, and Latios give it problems, three of which can outspeed U-Turn and need to be properly handled by teammates.

Overall, I'd consider Crobat to be a solid Poison addition that can perform two great roles, but needs some hazard support (Pivot) and max speed to get the job done. Does it play a good role against Psychic and Ground? Yes. Does it influence the metagame? Yes. Does it fill a ton of roles? No. Is it predictable? Perhaps. Does it define the metagame? No. For these reasons I give Crobat A Rank.

Shoutout to the Smog Issue 8 and Clearly for advice/ideas on what to say.

I agree.

Crobat's movepool is good, and brave bird is enough to dispose of many threats like Greninja, Sub/Keldeo, etc. Taunt/U-turn/Defog makes it a good pivot as well.

 

[TourGuyde]

Is it too late to make a write up for a pokemon to suggest. If it is not too late, I wanna try and reserve Stunfisk for Electric.

 

[Freeroamer]

I think Scizor-Mega should move down to A Rank as they are far from essential on Bug teams, in particular I feel the Mega has to move down as I am yet to see it perform so much better than it's base forme in any role that it's not worth using Pinsir or even Heracross for your Mega slot. I ranked Heracross as B mainly on the size of the opportunity cost of using it as the Mega over Pinsir, who I feel offers much more in the majority of matchups compared to either Scizor or Heracross, particularly in a Fire matchup, one of the worst Bug can come across. I feel Scizor falls into the same trap here, although it does have utility in that it offers powerful priority and can run a good physically defensive defogger set if you're not running Webs, allowing for a different build of Bug team.

Regarding the base forme, I'm not even sure what that does in Monotype anymore, it has been so long since I've seen one, either that or it hasn't really caused me any problems. Outside of possibly being the best Fairy killer in Monotype(and even that is questionable as it's Bullet Punch only hits Azu and Maw neutrally), admittedly not a great matchup for Bug, it doesn't really offer that much to Bug teams to make up for the massive Fire weakness it gives you, as well as having bad synergy with Genesect who is pretty much a staple on Bug teams at the moment. For these reasons, I'm going to suggest Scizor move down to B Rank, although I am open to arguments about this.

I think Torkoal should stay A Rank purely because the niche it fills on Fire is so large, being the only viable hazard remover who isn't 4x weak to rocks, while it'd love recovery obviously, it doesn't have a bad moveset to do it's job with either, Lava Plume / Rocks / Spin / Yawn pretty much always gets the job done.

 

[Acast]

Is it too late to make a write up for a pokemon to suggest. If it is not too late, I wanna try and reserve Stunfisk for Electric.

It's definitely not too late. As long as the Pokemon you are reserving has not been reserved yet, you're more than welcome to do a write up for it. (I just checked and Stunfisk has not yet been reserved for Electric, so you're fine.)

 

[Fortune]

Reserving Meowstic-M for Psychic.

 

[Dillon~]

CROBAT (POISON) -> A RANK

I think this pokemon should be B rank in poison because: It really doesn't get that many good STAB moves, you have cross poison, poison fang, and that's about it with Poison type STAB. With flying type STAB you really only get BraveBird, and even with that, your moveset would be Cross Poison/ Brave Bird/ U-Turn/ Toxic (???).