Tournament Monotype Winter Premier Discussion Thread [See Post #132 for draft date and time]

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I love how your post is not only inaccurate (Miyo was not in GoD), but you love to focus all your might and energy into roasting me lmao. See you in the winter seasonals grand final...oh wait, you're out :) (I don't even plan on joining this, but I've been laughing my ass off reading some of the stuff on here)

P.S. It's Stunfisk the Unbelievably Great to you
relax baby GoD ;w; so tiny, its just a joke dont take it so personal
 
+1 on this. I did the same thing with OMPL, I knew like two people from the OM community but I tried out, expressed interest, proved my knowledge of the meta and got on a team. People weren't happy that I got in over proven monotype players but it's because they didn't show any interest and just assumed they'd be drafted without talking to anyone. By the end of the tournament I had only played one match but I won that, I had fun with my team and now a lot of people in the community are aware of me.
Soooo true my mans. You have to make the conscious decision to get your name out there and get better. Make people know you exist. You can do this in many ways, whether it be just getting to know already established mono players and having them share their knowledge (in turn increasing yours), prove your skill through success in tournaments,and being more active in the places on forums people pay attention to, such as, dropping sample teams and meta discussion. If you don’t get drafted this time around, build yourself up and do everything you can to make it next time. It’s all up to you. GL frens~

(I’m on the same journey as all of you, I just got a head start :])
bro you just have to post memes to get drafted, that's what this thread is for
 
What are the community's thoughts on Mono OMs this WPL?

We've got Mono Ubers, Mono LC, Mono AAA, and STABmono; all of which have been pretty underplayed this generation thus far. There's a lot of untested ground and room for innovation and surprises, especially with the new toys introduced recently in USUM.

So I'm curious, which of the mono OMs do you all feel will be the most interesting to build for and/or spectate?
 
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Mostly interested to see what everyone's going to make up for STABmons and AAA.
Those two surprisingly seem like the most balanced out of the four, as every type can pull off some crazy lures to threats at any time, potentially turning a match around completely which can make it fun to watch.
I mean, in STABmons even Ice now has reliable Steel checks (Blue flare Rotom for example).

In the meanwhile, LC has like 8 or 9 useable types max. out of the 18, whereas Ubers has about 6 (thanks Xerneas and Ghost).
EDIT: Except if your username is thimo. Only then you can bring sticky web Grass in ubers and win.
 
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I'm pretty excited for LC, some types like fairy, dragon and fire got Defog, so they may rise in viability which is nice for the OM, since it was a bit stale. Ubers and Threat will be fun to watch/play as well because of the new stuff implemented.
 
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Mostly interested to see what everyone's going to make up for STABmons and AAA.
Those two surprisingly seem like the most balanced out of the four, as every type can pull off some crazy lures to threats at any time, potentially turning a match around completely which can make it fun to watch.
I mean, in STABmons even Ice now has reliable Steel checks (Blue flare Rotom for example).

In the meanwhile, LC has like 8 or 9 useable types max. out of the 18, whereas Ubers has about 6 (thanks Xerneas and Ghost).
EDIT: Except if your username is thimo. Only then you can bring sticky web Grass in ubers and win.
I don't agree with this in the slightest. How can you call stabmons one of the most balanced of the four? Stabmons has astronomically different advantages between types. Not every type has access to good moves nor does every type have the best dual type combinations to take advantage of stabmons. Sure you have Blue flare rotom-ice, but what's stopping that from being KOd by scarf excadrill then being swept by gear grind scizor or any other offensive pokemon on steel? Ice is 100% not a worthwhile type in stabmons in a tournament setting especially when you have pokemon like head smash choice band aerodactyle, or tail glow araquanid to deal with when combined with amazing support options.

Furthermore how is lc unbalanced? You have arguably 15 "usable" types in general, about 10 of which are worth using in a tournament setting. That's a huge number of variance and things to prepare for. You could make this same comparison to regular monotype, there's a bunch of usable types but not all are worth using in a tournament setting without planning a cteam. Fighting isn't hardly as broken as everyone makes it out to be, if you prepare your team correctly and have means of beating it, then it's really not that difficult. If you go in with no means of beating scraggy or any other bulky fighting type, then of course you're going to lose.

I can't say much about ubers, as that's how that meta is. Not every type is viable, nor would any amount of bans make more types extremely viable (even if xerneas and marshadow are banned).
 
Sniped by my co-OM homie :(

Like Moosical said, there are only 9-10 "tournament worthy" types in LC, but those are pretty well balanced against one another. For well built teams, there are very few overwhelmingly lopsided matchups and most of everything has healthy counterplay. I'd argue it's the most balanced and diverse of the Mono OMs, frankly.

Conversely, I'd say STABmons only has a handful of tournament worthy types due to the overwhelming strength of a few types (chiefly Flying) and limited broad counterplay for a great deal of offensive and defensive threats in the metagame (band aero, tail glow araquanid, etc). That's not to say it won't be fun to build for or spectate, or that these threats are impossible to adapt to, but I'd hardly call STABmono "balanced", even relative to other mono OMs. That's to be expected considering how fresh it is.
 
Tbh, I've always been a fan of Monotype Ubers; I used to play Ubers myself and honestly love the fact that you have to prepare for the vast power creep the tier has to offer, and seeing it under Monotype rules makes it very interesting when teambuilding. However in general, WPL looks to be a great starting point for the development and refinement of all the Mono OM's, and I'm really excited to see the tech that players will bring to the table.
 

MMagma

formerly Lostallhopedreams
Yeah Ubers was my favorite tier in gen 6(before heavily getting into monotype in gen 7) with the big legends being playable and the power of these mons. It was real interesting for me to actually build mono ubers and see all the different threats that the uber mons brought for the table for each type. Ghost is one of the types that really benefit from the mons it gets in ubers (Aegislash, Gengar-M, Marshadow and Lunala). Fairy gets Xerneas which can nuke a lot of mons with the power herb set, or Z-Geo which can be paired up with the tapus and mage. Psychic also gets Lele back, and gets mewtwo (regular or mega) which is a great also since psychic terrain can be longer since the terrain extender can be used. I really am looking forward towards the mono uber matches because it is one OM I am really interested in and just seeing what strategies people bring.
 
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I don't agree with this in the slightest. How can you call stabmons one of the most balanced of the four? Stabmons has astronomically different advantages between types. Not every type has access to good moves nor does every type have the best dual type combinations to take advantage of stabmons. Sure you have Blue flare rotom-ice, but what's stopping that from being KOd by scarf excadrill then being swept by gear grind scizor or any other offensive pokemon on steel? Ice is 100% not a worthwhile type in stabmons in a tournament setting especially when you have pokemon like head smash choice band aerodactyle, or tail glow araquanid to deal with when combined with amazing support options.

Furthermore how is lc unbalanced? You have arguably 15 "usable" types in general, about 10 of which are worth using in a tournament setting. That's a huge number of variance and things to prepare for. You could make this same comparison to regular monotype, there's a bunch of usable types but not all are worth using in a tournament setting without planning a cteam. Fighting isn't hardly as broken as everyone makes it out to be, if you prepare your team correctly and have means of beating it, then it's really not that difficult. If you go in with no means of beating scraggy or any other bulky fighting type, then of course you're going to lose.

I can't say much about ubers, as that's how that meta is. Not every type is viable, nor would any amount of bans make more types extremely viable (even if xerneas and marshadow are banned).
Yeah I probably should've worded my opinion on LC more carefully. Your points about cteaming are valid. I guess it is similiar to regular monotype in terms of how balanced it is.
(My LC player sentiment of Abra and Diglett being on shit types kicking up again)

It's just that, as I personally feel it, in Mono LC when you start with the general 15 usable types and take away 5 unviable types for the meta, you're not left with 10 types that at least have mostly balanced matchups among eachother.
Of those 10 viable tournament types left, every one of them has like at least two 'team preview wins' against other top 10 types. So it feels like much more of a RPS game than regular mono imo.
What are your thoughts on Mono LC matchups torkool?

Then again, this is also very true in Mono ubers. Even more so. However, I do think banning Marshadow frees up Steel and Psychic a lot, while not damaging Ghost too much. Except naturally the steel matchup itself and maybe the Dark matchup.

And, and I admit I'm gonna have to take an L on this one, in STABmons too.
Rotom-Frost probably wasn't the best example to give, but you're right that Flying and Water might be a big problem in STABmons. It is indeed a very new tier so I probably shouldn't put conclusions out there yet.
Gonna be fun to see what people build to counter Water and Flying though.

At least we can all be excited for AAA. Saw a game Eien played and man that was stally. Thoughts on that tier?
 
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It's just that, as I personally feel it, in Mono LC when you start with the general 15 usable types and take away 5 unviable types for the meta, you're not left with 10 types that at least have mostly balanced matchups among eachother.
Of those 10 viable tournament types left, every one of them has like at least two 'team preview wins' against other top 10 types. So it feels like much more of a RPS game than regular mono imo.
What are your thoughts on Mono LC matchups torkool?
I think you're over-exaggerating just a bit here, unless you want to name what each matchup automatically wins. Sure sun grass auto-wins vs water, shellder water auto-wins vs flying, and fighting auto-wins vs ice, but I can't think of two per type that are so heavily lopsided that you win by team preview like you claim. For example, ghost can beat dark (though it is difficult), dark can (easily) beat fighting, normal can also (easily) beat fighting. If you're building a monotype lc team, you should be running sets and Pokemon that can handle types that threaten you, much like you do in regular monotype. I so often see people running regular LC sets ala the smogon analyses that plain don't work in monotype lc because they don't offer enough coverage.

While I don't think it's nearly as balanced as regular monotype is, it's an OM with limited team options, it's hardly unbalanced.

Basically my thoughts are exactly what Tyke said
Tyke said:
Like Moosical said, there are only 9-10 "tournament worthy" types in LC, but those are pretty well balanced against one another. For well built teams, there are very few overwhelmingly lopsided matchups and most of everything has healthy counterplay.
I agree in regards to banning Xerneas and Marshadow, but for different reasons. Xerneas limits team building to a huge extent to where if you don't have a dedicated means of beating it, you actually do lose at team preview most of the time. This restricts team building, and moreover which types are viable. Marshadow, on the other hand, is one of the contributing factors that makes ghost overly strong. While it does heavily pressure Psychic and Steel type, neither of those types are severely limited in viability due to Marshadow, and banning it would only make those good types even better. My point earlier was more that, if we ban these two Pokemon, unviable types aren't going to suddenly become better. The bans would free up team-building and allow for more broader sets/checks, but the type variety wouldn't expand that much (in my opinion), so it's not really a great comparison to say LC.

In regards to AAA, I think it's in a good place as is right now. There isn't too much that I would change, however, that being said, there isn't thaaaat much type variety there either. Some types (Steel, Flying, Psychic, etc) have such good Pokemon to abuse a new ability, and definitely soar above the others. If anything, I'd say it's in the same boat as LC where only 10 types (guessing, not a factual number) are usable for a tournament, while a handful more are usable in general.
 
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Yeah I probably should've worded my opinion on LC more carefully. Your points about cteaming are valid. I guess it is similiar to regular monotype in terms of how balanced it is.
(My LC player sentiment of Abra and Diglett being on shit types kicking up again)

It's just that, as I personally feel it, in Mono LC when you start with the general 15 usable types and take away 5 unviable types for the meta, you're not left with 10 types that at least have mostly balanced matchups among eachother.
Of those 10 viable tournament types left, every one of them has like at least two 'team preview wins' against other top 10 types. So it feels like much more of a RPS game than regular mono imo.
What are your thoughts on Mono LC matchups torkool?

Then again, this is also very true in Mono ubers. Even more so. However, I do think banning Marshadow frees up Steel and Psychic a lot, while not damaging Ghost too much. Except naturally the steel matchup itself and maybe the Dark matchup.

And, and I admit I'm gonna have to take an L on this one, in STABmons too.
Rotom-Frost probably wasn't the best example to give, but you're right that Flying and Water might be a big problem in STABmons. It is indeed a very new tier so I probably shouldn't put conclusions out there yet.
Gonna be fun to see what people build to counter Water and Flying though.

At least we can all be excited for AAA. Saw a game Eien played and man that was stally. Thoughts on that tier?

Aaa is really cool, honestly I think the potential for innovation is the greatest and even garbage types will have a chance to shine with the right builder(smub psychic terrain jynx lol). Steel will definitely be a huge bring with mons like ferro, Tran, and skarm getting better defensive abilities to go along with their already great typing. Looking forward to seeing all the cool stuff people come up with.
 
I definitely agree that AAA and STABmons could bring a lot of diversity in terms of types and team comps. I haven't really explored STABmons as much as the other OMs, but I definitely look forward to it. I'm obviously also looking forward to Ubers(with xern and marsh banned) and LC, especially since I think they're the more developed of the OMs in terms of type viability. Overall really excited for these OMs to appear in WPL
 
I like playing mono ubers a lot definitely my favourite to play. Although that's kinda biased since Ghost is top tier. My favourite to spectate would probably be monothreat or aaa.
 
So i will apologize for derailing this convo a bit but i wanted to actually talk about something that has been on my mind the last few weeks concerning MWP and the manager selections as well. Ive talked to about 10 people over this time who have all uttered something along the lines of "I dont think I'll get drafted cuz woa hates me" or "All of mono staff is WoA so everything is unfair".

Im honestly ridiculously tired of hearing this as a reason you wont get drafted or wont get picked as manager. All of the managers and nearly everyone that will get to play in this tournament is more then qualified to do so. If you think anyone in that group of players(WoA) isnt deserving in some way of the position they have whether its staff, a manager position or just getting drafted then let me hear it. I personally am in the group myself but im a pretty fair guy when it comes to people being undeserving and im pretty sure everyone in this group one way or another has proved themselves by either posting positive things consistently for at least a few years now or having continuous success not only in monotype tournaments but tournaments of all different tiers. WoA is generally just a group of the players who have been friends and have been playing for a long time so it makes sense why they are very good, and because they are good they tend to be staff and top players picked for tournaments. Theres no bias in it we are just old and when we eventually quit we will need a new group of strong top players to pick up where we leave off.

I want to explain some flawed logic when it comes to thinking what you have to do to become part of these tournaments. For ex wincon peaked ladder last year and thought he was a shoe in for mpl which in actuality is just wrong. Do you think if you peak the ou ladder you going to play in spl? It doesnt really work like that. This is the wrong way to measure your skill, the ladder is a poor metric of high level skill so let me be frank: if you think topping the ladder or getting a high gxe makes you a top player, you need to get rid of that mentality immediately. The ladder does NOT take priority over forum tours and is generally best for simply testing out teams or having fun.

To get picked for these type of tournaments you have to work hard to hone your skills and knowledge as a player, you have to be good to the point were people cant ignore you. Posting in threads and making valid points is another way to show people you know what your talking about. Alot of players should take a hard look at yourselves as players and ask "Do I actually deserve to get drafted? Have I done everything I can to prove to others that I will be successful? If your answer is no then keep working hard, but dont blame others for your incompetence because its an easy cop out then facing the truth that you still have to work harder to be as good as the other players.

So I wont end this negatively good news is I can tell you how to prove yourself to others and how to continue improving. Seasonals are a great way to impress others, along with MLT. In my own experience I ran into a player by the name of Leru during an Oras seasonal last year and he won the bo3 in three but he outplayed me nearly every game in games I felt i played extremely well in to begin with. A few months later we had the monopl draft and he was a player in the back of my mind that i wanted to get he just stuck out to me. Jase Duken is another player that did this as well to me. Even though i beat him in our series he played extremely well and I still remember them and I picked him for my monopl team as well. Leru is in WoA, Jase is not but this is a perfect example of making yourself remembered, I have no doubt that both these dudes have spent a good amount of time practicing and playing to leave that strong of an impression and I encourage you all to do the same.
 
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