Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[Questro]

How do Water teams fare against Bug teams? Galvantula, Forretress setting up on your electric/ground resist (Lanturn, Swampert, Rotom-W fares best but it's not that common on Water imo), Pinsir can break your defensive core pretty easily without Rotom (Slowbro + Alo are one time checks), while it's not that easy to Revenge Kill (Keldeo's weak to Quick Attack, Greninja can get KO'ed at +2), and Volc can do a clean sweep without an Aqua Jet user.

Anyone have a successful replay from a Water team beating Bug? Tips/Preferred Pokemon? Thanks

 

[RedsCharizard]

How do Water teams fare against Bug teams? Galvantula, Forretress setting up on your electric/ground resist (Lanturn, Swampert, Rotom-W fares best but it's not that common on Water imo), Pinsir can break your defensive core pretty easily without Rotom (Slowbro + Alo are one time checks), while it's not that easy to Revenge Kill (Keldeo's weak to Quick Attack, Greninja can get KO'ed at +2), and Volc can do a clean sweep without an Aqua Jet user.

Anyone have a successful replay from a Water team beating Bug? Tips/Preferred Pokemon? Thanks

I can say that bug has a 46.8% chance of beating Water according to the matchup tables on the website.

I suppose Empoleon can help water beat bug, as it does neutralize Forretress, being able to Defog away hazards, drop scalds and set up Stealth Rocks itself. However, Galvantula has no clean switches, since it likes to carry Energy Ball - essentially, if it gets a free switch, something has to die with its electric and grass coverage. Your priority is to break the sash as soon as you possibly can and try to get in an offensive check. With Volcarona, well... you said it yourself: Aqua Jet. Or really, any physical check would work.
As for Mega Pinsir, well... if it gets a free SD, it's all over. You could try to run things like Rocky Helmet Slowbro with Thunder Wave, but that's about it...

 

[scpinion]

How do Water teams fare against Bug teams? Galvantula, Forretress setting up on your electric/ground resist (Lanturn, Swampert, Rotom-W fares best but it's not that common on Water imo), Pinsir can break your defensive core pretty easily without Rotom (Slowbro + Alo are one time checks), while it's not that easy to Revenge Kill (Keldeo's weak to Quick Attack, Greninja can get KO'ed at +2), and Volc can do a clean sweep without an Aqua Jet user.

Anyone have a successful replay from a Water team beating Bug? Tips/Preferred Pokemon? Thanks

I'm not on my computer so I don't have any of my replay links rn. I'll try to remember to edit them in here.

I find I'm most successful when I play very aggressively against bug teams. I normally lead Greninja and u-turn out, or if you don't have u-turn you at least force them to chose between killing Ninja and setting webs. My Ninja builds aren't typically the biggest threat to bug so I don't mind losing it. Regardless of what they chose to do, the sash is gone on galvantula, so you can KO it w/o trouble. Leading a slow, passive 'mon is a great way to lose.

If they set webs, clear them; you'll lose in the end game if they remain up. Finally, set rocks if at all possible and pressure the spinner w/ something that can just setup in their face (Gyara, Manaphy, CM Keldeo, etc.).

I'm sure this isn't the only way to win, but it is what I prefer to do.

 

[Zane0144]

I have to say water has been much more threatening to bug ever since that darn mega swampert made swift swim teams (more)viable

 

[Questro]

So, trying to make MonoGrass work again after Skymin has been banned. The toughest part, I think, is using Mega Venusaur. It's so critical to how Grass teams can function if you're using balanced Grass, but with Skymin gone, I feel like it's being overloaded again.

What have people found to be some of the better sets for M-Venus on Grass teams?

I've tried Amnesia sets, Curse sets, HP Rock sets for Volcarona (someone please help me find a better check/counter), Standard Defensive...?

 

[Monotip]

So, trying to make MonoGrass work again after Skymin has been banned. The toughest part, I think, is using Mega Venusaur. It's so critical to how Grass teams can function if you're using balanced Grass, but with Skymin gone, I feel like it's being overloaded again.

What have people found to be some of the better sets for M-Venus on Grass teams?

I've tried Amnesia sets, Curse sets, HP Rock sets for Volcarona (someone please help me find a better check/counter), Standard Defensive...?

Specially defensive Cradily is somewhat of a check to Volcarona. I've seen mixed attacking giga drain/earthquake/hp fire/synthesis Venusaur do a decent job as a member of grass. Aside from a few areas I'd say the Sprite Gallery will generally contain the information that you need to use a type, although it may take some digging to understand some things.

 

[Ashaury]

As a fairy user I would like to say fairy got nerfed really hard after the mega mawile ban.
And well, its really obvious, fairy needs a lot of fire coverage to beat not just steel, another types like grass and bug, those are really a big threat for this type.
Sadly, fairy isn't one of the best types anymore and thats a shame, we cant blame Mega Metagross, we are going to blame the dependency of the this type to Mega Mawile :)

 

[Zane0144]

Where are you lacking in fire coverage when you have clefable and togekiss?

 

[ArVaDa-]

I really enjoy the type analysis page. I don't know why I get such a kick out of seeing which pokes have moved up or down for a particular month, but I also like finding the grey columns, the ones in which that poke has been in that position of usage the entire time.

I've noticed a few mons, like volcarona on bug, are regular 1st place finishers and keep the number 1 column, but the grey columns I like the most are the ones that are not 1st place. I like them because I honestly can't explain them. Golurk and gyarados have taken the #5 position for ghost and water respectively for every single month, and I have a hard time figuring out why. It is easy to see sometimes who will win, like Usain Bolt winning the 100m dash. Predicting the guy who will come in 5th place so solidly is a bit stranger to me for some reason haha.

 

[Fírnen]

First, sorry for my bad English, i don't speak this language very well.

Second, according to the ban (it was a long time i know) of M-Gallade for Psychic, Genesect for steel...
Why M-Zard X was never been suspected for Flying type?
Honnestly, we know all that this Pokemon can't be checked by all type and he's always here without being suspected.
I don't understand to be honnest.

Just let talk together about it.

 

[Acast]

First, sorry for my bad English, i don't speak this language very well.

Second, according to the ban (it was a long time i know) of M-Gallade for Psychic, Genesect for steel...
Why M-Zard X was never been suspected for Flying type?
Honnestly, we know all that this Pokemon can't be checked by all type and he's always here without being suspected.
I don't understand to be honnest.

Just let talk together about it.

We HAVE talked about this before. I understand that Charizard X is a huge threat to many types, but it has been discussed here many times and I believe we decided to re-visit Charizard X once Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye's bans have been decided. Metagross and Sableye are more important right now.

 

[Monotip]

We HAVE talked about this before. I understand that Charizard X is a huge threat to many types, but it has been discussed here many times and I believe we decided to re-visit Charizard X once Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye's bans have been decided. Metagross and Sableye are more important right now.

I think Greninja was also before Charizard in line.

 

[pokecole]

First, sorry for my bad English, i don't speak this language very well.

Second, according to the ban (it was a long time i know) of M-Gallade for Psychic, Genesect for steel...
Why M-Zard X was never been suspected for Flying type?
Honnestly, we know all that this Pokemon can't be checked by all type and he's always here without being suspected.
I don't understand to be honnest.

Just let talk together about it.

We have talked about it before, but the issue is still the same with or without it.
Mega charizard is just one threat that flying has at its disposal. They could just as easily throw in mega gyarados or mega altaria and do the same thing, which is destroying certain types and being bulky and able to recover. The only thing these two don't have the mega char does is the ability to use will-o-wisp which doesn't really hurt that much, seeing as the type has access to some of the best walls in the game. It just wouldn't do enough.

 

[Zane0144]

Eh, Mega Zard X does more that just will-o-wisp. It also provides a strong attacker in conjuntion with a type that takes nuetral damage from Ice and resists Electric. Two of flying's gravest weaknesses that are not covered by either M-altaria(only covers electric) or m-gyrados(only covers ice). As well as only gaining a weakness to ground which is easily covered by everything else on the team. I suppose you could say that it doesnt cover rock like alt and gyra, but rock isn't the best attacking type and isn't as common as bolt-beam

I know we aren't supposed to discuss it yet, but don't pass it off like its less of a threat than it is.

 

[Ashaury]

Where are you lacking in fire coverage when you have clefable and togekiss?

Yeah, and thats not enough to beat mega scizor and other threats :] because clefable or togekiss cant take a bp from scizor or a meteor smash from mega-metagross.

 

[Monotip]

Yeah, and thats not enough to beat mega scizor and other threats :] because clefable or togekiss cant take a bp from scizor or a meteor smash from mega-metagross.

Admittedly you'd be fine if Mega Metagross were gone. And they can survive (barely) given the right spreads.

 

[DoW]

Fairy is ALWAYS going to have to sack at least one Pokemon to stop Scizor, that's pretty much guaranteed.

If Rocks are up at all, Scizor is going to decimate a Fairy Team if it gets off a SINGLE Swords Dance. Steel has plenty of viable Rock Setters, that's not an issue.

+2 252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 324-384 (86.6 - 102.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's a 100% Defensive Togekiss.

+1 0 SpA Togekiss Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 304-360 (88.3 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (Download would be the only offensive option here)

If that Togekiss isn't 100% Defensive, Scizor walks all over it after SD is up. It relies on Paralysis proccing to win, as it can't abuse Paraflinch even with Serene Grace, it's all on Paralysis, as Scizor would always move before Togekiss unless it uses ExtremeSpeed for some reason.

0 SpA Clefable Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 168-200 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Mega Scizor also walks all over Clefable. The same goes with all other Scizor variants, it's either a 2HKO, or Scizor can set up SD and make itself even scarier on the first turn. Even Modest Clefable can't 1HKO a normal Scizor, and if it goes for 252 HP/Special Attack, it's getting 1HKOed, or has a 30% or more chance of being 1HKOed by anything but an unboosted, non-Choice Band normal Scizor.

Both Clefable and Togekiss have flamethrower ?_?
That's not to say it's easy to deal with, but at least easier.

 

[Ramplestilskin]

To be honest I think MScizor can pretty easily decimate Fairy or Ice teams, because it has a good bulk, access to Sword Dance and a pretty strong priority almost similar to Talonflame's ability to sweep teams (and the exact same reason why Talonflame was banned in the first place). However there's so many things that need to be banned in my own opinion (Genesect even on bug, MSable on Dark, MMetagross, ZardX, Greninja etc.) that I don't really know if my opinion is good or not right now (ie I can't say this is totally unbiased)

 

[Ashaury]

Fairy is ALWAYS going to have to sack at least one Pokemon to stop Scizor, that's pretty much guaranteed.

If Rocks are up at all, Scizor is going to decimate a Fairy Team if it gets off a SINGLE Swords Dance. Steel has plenty of viable Rock Setters, that's not an issue.

+2 252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 324-384 (86.6 - 102.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's a 100% Defensive Togekiss.

+1 0 SpA Togekiss Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 304-360 (88.3 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (Download would be the only offensive option here)

If that Togekiss isn't 100% Defensive, Scizor walks all over it after SD is up. It relies on Paralysis proccing to win, as it can't abuse Paraflinch even with Serene Grace, it's all on Paralysis, as Scizor would always move before Togekiss unless it uses ExtremeSpeed for some reason.

0 SpA Clefable Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 168-200 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Mega Scizor also walks all over Clefable. The same goes with all other Scizor variants, it's either a 2HKO, or Scizor can set up SD and make itself even scarier on the first turn. Even Modest Clefable can't 1HKO a normal Scizor, and if it goes for 252 HP/Special Attack, it's getting 1HKOed, or has a 30% or more chance of being 1HKOed by anything but an unboosted, non-Choice Band normal Scizor.

No dude, not really. Foul play klefki is the answer to mega scizor.
You actually dont need to sac 1 mon.

 

[Ashaury]

Admittedly you'd be fine if Mega Metagross were gone. And they can survive (barely) given the right spreads.

Fairy will be fine if mega mawile gets unbanned! but yeah, thats not going to happen x3

 

[Monotip]

Fairy is ALWAYS going to have to sack at least one Pokemon to stop Scizor, that's pretty much guaranteed.

If Rocks are up at all, Scizor is going to decimate a Fairy Team if it gets off a SINGLE Swords Dance. Steel has plenty of viable Rock Setters, that's not an issue.

+2 252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 324-384 (86.6 - 102.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's a 100% Defensive Togekiss.

+1 0 SpA Togekiss Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 304-360 (88.3 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (Download would be the only offensive option here)

If that Togekiss isn't 100% Defensive, Scizor walks all over it after SD is up. It relies on Paralysis proccing to win, as it can't abuse Paraflinch even with Serene Grace, it's all on Paralysis, as Scizor would always move before Togekiss unless it uses ExtremeSpeed for some reason.

0 SpA Clefable Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 168-200 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Mega Scizor also walks all over Clefable. The same goes with all other Scizor variants, it's either a 2HKO, or Scizor can set up SD and make itself even scarier on the first turn. Even Modest Clefable can't 1HKO a normal Scizor, and if it goes for 252 HP/Special Attack, it's getting 1HKOed, or has a 30% or more chance of being 1HKOed by anything but an unboosted, non-Choice Band normal Scizor.

HP fire Togekiss? what? And what are you talking about with download? It doesn't get download, and it learns flamethrower and fire blast. The same goes for Clefable.

Also: 0 SpA Life Orb Clefable Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Scizor: 333-395 (97 - 115.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Calm Mind Life Orb is actually pretty good, and this is assuming a bulky sd Scizor-mega. Furthermore, magic guard makes sash/counter Clefable a legitimate option. Additionally, when considering the fairy type, it is very possible that Klefki has set up Reflect, which also gives Togekiss and Clefable even better chances of survival.

 

[TM93]

This is what I get for posting when tired. Disregard my stupidity earlier.

Edit: I do want to sincerely apologize that I overlooked something painfully obvious. I honestly don't know how half of that came to mind.

 

[all falls down]

Honestly Fairy vs Steel will still be hard without Metagross, because in some ways Scizor hurts it even more (although Scizor is much more managable) as Klefki would take a clean 60% from a boosted Bullet Punch, so playing well and weakening it beforehand or trapping it with Magnezone will still make the Fairy team struggle.

But like I said, Scizor is still pretty killable, as things like Clefable and Togekiss can live bullet punches behind screens and easily OHKO or severely cripple Scizor, and yeah Klefki always has the option to use foul play. There's also the option to use unaware Clefable to ensure that it always checks Scizor. Without Metagross, the Fairy player has a good chance to win if they play well and weaken the team to the point where Belly Drum Azumarill can clean up the game, and there's always the possibility of Scarf Togekiss or Stallbreaker Togekiss to sweep as well.

 

[Fírnen]

For the last discussion about M-Zard X, i didn't see it, apologize.
The thing is he is such a pain for a type who doesn't need to be good (like say before, M-Altaria and Gyarados have one weakness of flying type as resistance, M-Zard X has 2 + Wow or +2 DD is just unstoppable).

 

[mullin]

My argument for my grenninja should stay in the tiers is simple. Yes it can ko many things in the tier yes it is unpredictable but so are most sets.Ape for example is a very good mixed a tacked thus making it unpredictable does that mean it should be banned.
The current meta is sandrush the speed of grenninja let's dark deal with it much better. And from personal experience water is less able to hit it hard. Greninja had coverage for things that water has had issues with such as mega venasure ferrothorne and if it stays mega metagross. It is one of the few checks or counters for these in the tier. It does not take any hits and has zero form of recover and relies on constant switches in order to get a decent match up.
As for mega metagross the ban makes no sense with the current meta of ground and flying. It hits hard and has some good defense but where it falls is it cannot take any special hits and zero recovery.

Sorry about the spelling I am using my phone