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Mothim (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by SuperJOCKE, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Mothim

    [Overview]

    <p>Mothim is one of the Bug / Flying type Pokemon that has been made viable with the addition of Quiver Dance to his movepool. Mothim was overlooked last generation because of his mediocre stats; while his offensive stats are good, Mothim's middling Speed stat held him back, but now he has a move to remedy this flaw with. Mothim's movepool is also pretty shallow, but he gets the coverage he needs with only Bug Buzz, Air Slash, and Hidden Power thanks to the other new toy he got in BW: Tinted Lens. Tinted Lens doubles the power of all resisted moves, which means Mothim hits the majority of the tier hard with a powerful Bug Buzz, even if it's resisted. Mothim's typing is both a blessing as well as a curse; he has a nice 4x resistance to both Grass- and Fighting-type moves, as well as a 2x resistances to Bug-type moves, but Mothim has a crippling 4x weakness to Stealth Rock and Rock-type moves as well as a 2x weakness to the common Fire-, Ice-, Electric-, and Flying-type moves. Mothim also faces competition from Butterfree and Masquerain who got Quiver Dance as well; however, Mothim has qualities over both of them. Mothim has Tinted Lens and a higher Speed stat over Masquerain, Air Slash over Butterfree, and a much higher Special Attack stat over both Butterfree and Masquerain, making it a prime choice over the two if you prefer power over a sleep inducing move or Baton Pass + Intimidate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Water / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Tinted Lens
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the best Mothim can do, and the only thing he should really be doing. Quiver Dance will patch up Mothim's middling Speed, reaching a good number with only one boost, while also increasing his already good Special Attack. Bug Buzz is the most powerful move at Mothim's disposal and will hit the majority of the tier hard after a boost or two, coupled with Tinted Lens. Air Slash is a great secondary STAB move, backing up Bug Buzz. The final move depends on what you prefer. Substitute will ease setting up, and is the preferred choice. Substitute protects Mothim from status as well, something that will otherwise severely hinder his capabilities. However, Hidden Power Water or Hidden Power Ice can be used as well. Hidden Power Water will make short work of Camerupt, while Altaria can't withstand a Hidden Power Ice; both of them are hard for Mothim to take down with only Bug Buzz due to their specially defensive capabilities and powerful moves, and Hidden Power will ensure a OHKO on both of them. Hidden Power Ice will also do more damage to Golbat than either Bug Buzz and Air Slash.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Ground is an option for disposing of Probopass, Bastiodon, and Lairon, but it won't hit Camrupt as hard or Altaria at all, making it an inferior choice. Psychic will hit both Golbat and Haunter harder than Air Slash and Hidden Power Ice, respectively, making it a decent choice; however, it should be noted that at +1, Air Slash still OHKOes Haunter. Shadow Ball is also an option, still covering Haunter, while hitting Misdreavus harder than anything else, but it's inferior to any of the listed moves. The choice of item depends solely on whether you want more power or more survivability. If you end up going with Substitute, Leftovers is often the superior option as the move will take some amount of HP from Mothim. Leftovers also works great with the Special Defense boosts Mothim acquires from using Quiver Dance. A Timid nature is preferred when using Mothim, as it will make him outspeed Timid Choice Scarf Rotom-S at +2 Speed; however, a Modest nature will grant Mothim a great amount of extra power.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is a must when using Mothim, as his 4x weakness to Stealth Rock will easily hinder it from doing anything. Cryogonal is the best option at hand, being able to take care of most Ice- and Electric-types for Mothim. Entry hazards help a lot, as it will make some Pokemon easier to take down, while it can also make the opponent less prone to switch. Garbodor is clearly the best choice for setting up both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, not sharing any weaknesses with Mothim, but Cacturne is a good option for setting up Spikes as well. Cacturne can handle Rock-types for Mothim with relative ease, while Mothim returns the favor by being able to handle most Fighting-types threatening Cacturne. Regirock is an excellent choice for setting up Stealth Rock. Alongside setting up Stealth Rock, Regirock can also provide Thunder Wave support, which will ease setup for Mothim, while Regirock is also able to take care of Fire-, Ice-, Flying-, and to some extent Electric-types, for Mothim. Mothim can handle Fighting- and Grass-types for Regirock in return. Cleric support is also nice for any set-up sweeper, as Life Orb recoil and the Substitute will quickly drain Mothim's HP, and status will hinder his offensive capabilities. Lickilicky is often the superior choice, being able to use both Wish and Heal Bell while having great defensive attributes. Even though Mothim can hit Camerupt and Altaria, having something take care of both of them is always good; especially if Mothim is carrying Substitute. Gorebyss is a great choice, being able to hit them with a strong Surf or Ice Beam, respectively. Huntail is also an option if you want a mixed version. While Camerupt is a bane to Mothim, it can also help him a lot; Camerupt's ability to take on both Magmortar and Rotom-S is a great aid to any Mothim.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Mothim's other options are pretty scarce, especially with Tinted Lens limiting them. Giga Drain and Roost can be used to restore Mothim's HP, but the two moves can only be used with Swarm and the loss of Tinted Lens is not worth it. Energy Ball will hit Quagsire, as well as Carracosta and Regirock, harder than anything else, but Energy Ball doesn't provide any additional coverage. Silver Wind and Ominous Wind are both rather gimmicky options over Bug Buzz and Shadow Ball, respectively, but can raise Mothim's stats by one stage each. However, Mothim does need the power behind Bug Buzz, so it's not very wise to use Silver Wind over it; using these two moves alongside Bug Buzz, however, can prove useful on rare occasions. Signal Beam is also an option over Bug Buzz, being able to confuse the opponent, but the loss of power can be noticeable at times. Tailwind grants Mothim's team with a Speed boost for four turns, while Toxic can be used to break down certain Pokemon. It should be noted, however, as with Giga Drain and Roost, that Ominous Wind, Tailwind, and Signal Beam are illegal with Tinted Lens, making them even less viable. Choice Scarf and Choice Specs are also decent options, especially with Tinted Lens, but Quiver Dance is always the superior way to go with Mothim. He does have U-turn to abuse these two items with. Mothim also has an Attack stat equal to his Special Attack, but he has no strong physical moves at his disposal. The aforementioned U-turn, as well as Bug Bite, Aerial Ace, Acrobatics, and Return is all Mothim has, and the only way to increase Mothim's Attack stat is with the psuedo-Swords Dance combination of Psych Up and Swagger.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Tinted Lens makes it harder for certain Pokemon to switch in on Mothim, but it's far from impossible to beat him. Golbat has no problem switching in on unboosted attacks, while being able to easily break through Mothim with Brave Bird and Toxic. Golbat even has Whirlwind to phaze Mothim out, but it needs to be careful of a highly boosted Psychic or Hidden Power Ice. Rotom-S can survive a +1 Bug Buzz from Mothim, and proceed to KO him with Thunderbolt at +1 Special Defense if Mothim has suffered prior damage. Rotom-S will always outspeed Mothim at +1 Speed with Choice Scarf. The same goes for Magmortar; it can surive a +1 Bug Buzz, it outspeeds Mothim at +1 Speed with Choice Scarf, while being able to easily OHKO Mothim with Fire Blast. However, Magmortar needs to be careful switching in, especially when it's not using Choice Scarf, as without it Mothim will outspeed and KO Magmortar if it has switched in on a +1 Bug Buzz or Air Slash. Jynx needs to be extra careful switching in, but like the previous two, she outspeeds Mothim with Choice Scarf and can easily KO him with Ice Beam. Sturdy Golem, Gigalith, and Lairon can come in when a teammate has fainted or when Mothim is setting up, survive a hit, and proceed to OHKO Mothim with their Rock-type moves. Finally, Lickilicky, Cryogonal, and Regice are hard for Mothim to take down without multiple boosts, due to their high Special Defense stats.</p>
  2. 49

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    Hp Ice also hits Rotom-S btw, kinda thought that might deserve mention, as otherwise he is sorta a pain to deal with
  3. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    I don't see the use in Shadow Ball, Misdreavus can't really do anything to Mothim, especially if Mothim has substitute. In my opinion, it fits better in OO. Psychic doesn't seem that great either, but it does quite a bit of damage to Golbat, which is more notable that you could hit with Psychic than Haunter, because as you said: Haunter is already OHKO'd by Air Slash.

    I'd like to see Lickilicky, Cryogonal, and Regice in the counters section. All of them can tank Mothim's hits very well and Lickilicky + Cryogonal both have recovery as well.

    supporting calcs (open)

    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Tinted Lens Mothim (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 248HP/8SpDef Leftovers Regice (Neutral): 34% - 40% (124 - 147 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Tinted Lens Mothim (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Cryogonal (Neutral): 51% - 61% (177 - 210 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Quite a bit of damage, but Cryogonal KO's back and can heal lost HP)

    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Tinted Lens Mothim (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Cloud Nine Lickilicky (Neutral): 56% - 66% (238 - 282 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Similar to Cryogonal, but has to be a tad more careful as it can't OHKO back.)
  4. Steamroll

    Steamroll Tasty
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    Hahahaha, Beautifly... Hahahaha, I can guarantee Beautifly is a last ditch effort. Beyond that, yeah DTC's mentions of Licki, Cryo ((O_o holy fuck it's good for something besides spinning!)) and Regice should be put in C/C.

    QC 1/3


  5. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Fine, I'll put them in C&C, but only as checks, not counters cause they aren't.

    Gonna keep Shadow Ball in AC too, and mention that Psychic hits Golbat too. You're being awfully picky about a skeleton DTC. It's not like this is a written thing. I've done enough analyses to know what I'm doing y'know.

    @col49 True, but it only hits Rotom-S slightly harder than Bug Buzz (neutral Bug Buzz 135, SE HP Ice 140).

    EDIT:

    Should've read the calcs a bit more carefully. DTC, the standard Lickilicky runs 252/112/144 with Careful. This means it's not even 3HKOed by a +1 Bugg Buzz from Timid Mothim. The most common Cryogonal runs 252/252 with Calm, meaning neither it will be 3HKOed at +1. Regice, however, is correct.

    See, if you're going to post a counterarugument or something along the line, provide correct and relevant information.
  6. tennisace

    tennisace Tastes like farm league drama
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    agree with steamroll
  7. 49

    49
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    tented lens derp, forgot. if thats the case, no hp ground=probes+bastiodon (to a degree) in checks and counters. A +1 LO-boosted Hp Water isn't even a 2HKO a standard Probester after SR.
  8. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    I usually use a different Lickilicky EV spread each time depending on the needs for my team, so I never knew what the "standard" was, I apologise for that.

    Cryogonal I did just to show you how much physically defensive Cryogonal takes from Bug Buzz. Both are good sets.

    Also, sorry about being so picky.
  9. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
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    I always use 252 HP / 252 SpD for Lickilicky. I dunno what you guys are doing. .___.

    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  10. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Ok, this is written and ready for GP checks.

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    Do it for it Swedish Mothim, ja, ok! (Stereotyping my own people ;.;)
  11. shnen

    shnen שוני
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  12. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    O ja.

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    GP Approved 1/2
  13. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    first amateur check :P

    [Overview]

    <p>Mothim is one of the Bug / Flying type Pokemon that has been made viable with the addition of Quiver Dance to his movepool. Mothim was overlooked last gen because of his mediocre stats; while his offensive stats are good, Mothim's middling Speed stat held him back, but now he has a move to remedy this flaw with. Mothim's movepool is also pretty shallow, but he gets the coverage he needs with only Bug Buzz, Air Slash, and Hidden Power thanks to the other new toy he got in BW: Tinted Lens. Tinted Lens doubles the power of all resisted moves, which means Mothim hits the majority of the tier hard with a powerful Bug Buzz, even if it's resisted. Mothim's typing is also both a blessing as well as a curse at the same time; he has a nice 4x resistance to both Grass- and Fighting-type moves, as well as a 2x resistances to Bug-type moves, but Mothim has a crippling 4x weakness to Stealth Rock as well as a 2x weakness to the common Fire-, Ice-, Electric-, and Flying-type moves. Mothim also faces competition from Butterfree and Masquerain who got Quiver Dance as well; however, Mothim has qualities over both of them. Mothim has Tinted Lens and a higher Speed stat over Masquerain, Air Slash over Butterfree, and a much higher Special Attack stat over both Butterfree and Masquerain, making it a prime choice over the two if you prefer power over a sleep inducing move or Baton Pass + Intimidate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Water / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Tinted Lens
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the best Mothim can do, and the only thing he should really be doing. Quiver Dance will patch up Mothim's middling Speed, reaching a good number with only one boost, while also increasing his already good Special Attack. Bug Buzz is the most powerful move at Mothim's disposal and will hit the majority of the tier hard after a boost or two, coupled with Tinted Lens. Air Slash is a great secondary STAB move, backing up Bug Buzz. The final move depends on what you prefer. Substitute will ease setting up, and is the preferred choice. Substitute protects Mothim from status as well, something that will otherwise severly hinder his capabilities otherwise. However, Hidden Power Water or Hidden Power Ice can be used as well. Hidden Power Water will make short work of Camerupt, while Altaria can't withstand a Hidden Power Ice; both of them are hard for Mothim to take down with only Bug Buzz due to their specially defensive capabilities and powerful moves, and Hidden Power will ensure a OHKO on both of them. Hidden Power Ice will also do more damage to Golbat than either Bug Buzz and Air Slash.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Ground is an option for disposing of Probopass, Bastiodon, and Lairon, but it won't hit Camrupt as hard or Altaria at all, making it an inferior choice. Giga Drain and Roost can be used to restore Mothim's HP, but the two moves can only be used with Swarm and the loss of Tinted Lens is not usually is not (preferential, but if you outright say it's not worth it, it shouldn't merit an AC mention) worth it. Psychic will hit both Golbat and Haunter harder than Air Slash and Hidden Power Ice, respectively, making it a decent choice; however, it should be noted that at +1, Air Slash still OHKOes Haunter. Shadow Ball is also an option, still covering Haunter, while hitting Misdreavus harder than anything else, but it's inferior to any of the listed moves. The choice of item depends solely on if whether you want more power or more surviability. If you end up going with Substitute, Leftovers is often the superior option as the move will take some ammount of HP from Mothim. Leftovers also works great with the Special Defense boosts Mothim acquires from using Quiver Dance. A Timid nature is prefered when using Mothim, as it will make him outspeed Timid Choice Scarf Rotom-S at +2 Speed; however, a Modest nature will grant Mothim a great amount of extra power.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is a must when using Mothim, as his 4x weakness to Stealth Rock will easily hinder it from doing anything. Cryogonal is the best option at hand, being able to take care of most Ice- and Electric-types for Mothim. Entry hazards help a lot, as it will make some Pokemon easier to take down, while it can also make the opponent less prone of switching to switch. Garbodor is clearly the best choice for setting up both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, not sharing any weaknesses with Mothim, but Cacturne is a good option for setting up Spikes as well. Cacturne can handle Rock-types for Mothim with relative ease, while Mothim returns the favor by being able to handle most Fighting-types threatening Cacturne. Regirock is an excellent choice for setting up Stealth Rock. Alongside setting up Stealth Rock, Regirock can also provide Thunder Wave support, which will ease setup for Mothim, while Regirock is also able to take care of Fire-, Ice-, Flying-, and to some extent Electric-types, for Mothim. Mothim can handle Fighting- and Grass-types for Regirock in return. Cleric support is also nice for any set-up (I don't think you need the hypen, not 100% sure though) sweeper, as Life Orb recoil and the Substitute will quickly drain Mothim's HP and status will hinder his offensive capabilities. Lickilicky is often the superior choice, being able to use both Wish and Heal Bell while having great defensive attributes. Even though Mothim can hit Camerupt and Altaria, having something take care of both of them is always good; especially if Mothim is carrying Substitute. Gorebyss is a great choice, being able to hit them with a strong Surf or Ice Beam, respectively. Huntail is also an option if you want a mixed version. While Camerupt is a bane to Mothim, it can also help him a lot; Camerupt's ability to take on both Magmortar and Rotom-S is a great aid to any Mothim.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Mothim's other options are pretty scarce, especially with Tinted Lens limiting them. Energy Ball will hit Quagsire, as well as Carracosta and Regirock, harder than anything else, but Energy Ball doesn't provide any additional coverage. Silver Wind and Ominous Wind are both rather gimmicky options over Bug Buzz and Shadow Ball, repsectively, but can raise Mothim's stats by one stage each. However, Mothim does need the power behind Bug Buzz, so it's not very wise to use Silver Wind over it; using these two moves alongside Bug Buzz, however, can prove useful on rare occasions. Signal Beam is also an option over Bug Buzz, being able to confuse the opponent, but the loss of power can be noticeable at times. Tailwind grants Mothim's team with a Speed boost for four turns, while Toxic can be used to break down certain Pokemon. It should be noted, however, as with Giga Drain and Roost, that Ominous Wind, Tailwind, and Signal Beam are illegal with Tinted Lens, making them even less viable. Choice Scarf and Choice Specs are also decent options, especially with Tinted Lens, but Quiver Dance is always the superior way to go with Mothim. He does have U-turn to abuse these two items with. Mothim also has an Attack stat equal to his Special Attack, but he has no strong physical moves at his disposal. The aforementioned U-turn, as well as Bug Bite, Aerial Ace, Acrobatics, and Return is all Mothim has, and the only way to increase Mothim's Attack stat is with the psuedo-Swords Dance combination of Psych Up and Swagger.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Tinted Lens makes it harder for certain Pokemon to switch in on Mothim, but it's far from impossible to beat him. Golbat has no problem switching in on unboosted attacks, while being able to easily break through Mothim with Brave Bird and Toxic. Golbat even has Whirlwind to phaze Mothim out, but it needs to be careful of a highly boosted Psychic and or Hidden Power Ice. Rotom-S can survive a +1 Bug Buzz from Mothim, and proceed to KO him with Thunderbolt at +1 Special Defense if Mothim has suffered prior damage. Rotom-S will always outspeed Mothim at +1 Speed with Choice Scarf. The same goes for Magmortar; it can surive a +1 Bug Buzz, it outspeeds Mothim at +1 Speed with Choice Scarf, while being able to easily OHKO Mothim with Fire Blast. However, Magmortar needs to be careful switching in, especially when it's not using Choice Scarf, as without it Mothim will outspeed and KO Magmortar if it has switched in on a +1 Bug Buzz or Air Slash. Jynx needs to be extra careful switching in, but like the previous two, she outspeeds Mothim with Choice Scarf and can easily KO him with Ice Beam. Sturdy Golem, Gigalith, and Lairon can come in when a teammate has fainted or when Mothim is setting up, survive a hit, and proceed to OHKO Mothim with their Rock-type moves. Finally, Lickilicky, Cryogonal, and Regice are hard for Mothim to take down without multiple boosts, due to their high Special Defense stats.</p>

    Very nice analysis, SuperJOCKE! Great work :)
  14. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Ugh, stamping this on behalf of sandshrewz... Lazy...

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    GP Approved 2/2
  15. Oglemi

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