Move Equality (Playable) Whirlpool, Fire Spin, Infestation & Sand Tomb are now banned (see post 193)

Code:
{
        name: "Move Equality",
        section: "Other Metagames",
        ruleset: ['Pokemon', 'Standard', 'Team Preview', 'Swagger Clause', 'Baton Pass Clause'],
        banlist: ['Uber', 'Soul Dew', 'Gengarite', 'Kangaskhanite', 'Lucarionite', 'Salamencite', 'Metagrossite', 'Landorus', 'Mud Slap', 'Keldeo'],
        onModifyMove: function (move, pokemon) {
            //Account for all moves affected by minimize, terrains/weathers, or two-turn moves (besides earthquake and dragon rush as they're already 100 BP)
            var forbid = ['stomp', 'steamroller', 'bodyslam', 'flyingpress', 'phantomforce', 'shadowforce'];
            if (!move.priority && !move.basePowerCallback && !move.onBasePower && move.basePower && move.category !== 'Status' && forbid.indexOf(move.id) === -1) move.basePower = 100;
            if (!move.priority && move.multihit) {
                if (typeof(move.multihit) === 'number') {
                    move.basePower = 100/move.multihit;
                } else {
                    move.basePower = 100/move.multihit[1];
                }
            }
            if (move.type === 'Flying' && move.category !== 'Status') move.basePower = 100;
        }
    },
Code:
{
        name: "Move Equality 1v1",
        section: "OM of the Month",
        ruleset: ['Pokemon', 'Standard', 'Team Preview', 'Swagger Clause', 'Baton Pass Clause'],
        banlist: ['Uber', 'Soul Dew', 'Gengarite', 'Kangaskhanite', 'Lucarionite', 'Salamencite', 'Metagrossite', 'Landorus', 'Mud Slap', 'Keldeo'],
        onModifyMove: function (move, pokemon) {
            //Account for all moves affected by minimize, terrains/weathers, or two-turn moves (besides earthquake and dragon rush as they're already 100 BP)
            var forbid = ['stomp', 'steamroller', 'bodyslam', 'flyingpress', 'phantomforce', 'shadowforce'];
            if (!move.priority && !move.basePowerCallback && !move.onBasePower && move.basePower && move.category !== 'Status' && forbid.indexOf(move.id) === -1) move.basePower = 100;
            if (!move.priority && move.multihit) {
                if (typeof(move.multihit) === 'number') {
                    move.basePower = 100/move.multihit;
                } else {
                    move.basePower = 100/move.multihit[1];
                }
            }
            if (move.type === 'Flying' && move.category !== 'Status') move.basePower = 100;
        },
        validateTeam: function (team, format) {
            if (team.length > 3) return ['You may only bring up to three Pokémon.'];
        },
        onBegin: function () {
            this.p1.pokemon = this.p1.pokemon.slice(0, 1);
            this.p1.pokemonLeft = this.p1.pokemon.length;
            this.p2.pokemon = this.p2.pokemon.slice(0, 1);
            this.p2.pokemonLeft = this.p2.pokemon.length;
        }
    },
Updated with Keldeo bans
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Just thought I'd post here as noone is in the room atm, but signups for a tourney are on in the chatroom on PerfectPokemon Showdown (perfectpokemonshowdown.psim.us/moveequality) and it'll be starting whenever I get enough players/feel like starting it (basically, you're safe for a few hours). The winner of the tourney will get roomvoice (if they don't have it already) and they will be added to the move equality council (unless its me, in which case whoever is the runner up will get the place instead). In the future, I hope to host lots of tourneys (some with certain teambuilding themes - these may be standard, such as monotype/monocolour/nfe, or they may be unorthodox, such as fairytale or spooky) and they will all come with promotions attatched (1 tourney win nets you voice, 3 nets you driver, 5 and onwards nets you anything you want in the roomintro for 2 days) - so make sure to hang around in the chatrooms so that you can get in on these.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Last night's tourney had to be canceled due to me being made to come off earlier than I aniticipated, so it has been re-scheduled for today (same server). Once again, in the future, keep the servers running in the background if you are interested in playing as I will be hosting these regularly for anyone interested.
 
Bug report, dunno if it's fixed in the most recent code update or not: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-moveequality-3630
Go! these r stop signs (Alakazam)!
Turn 16

these r stop signs used Confusion!
It's super effective! The opposing Keldeo lost 43% of its health!
It's super effective! The opposing Keldeo lost 38% of its health!
Hit 2 times!

The opposing Keldeo fainted!
★Akumeoy: w-what
★Ult player: Wait
★Ult player: what just happened
★Akumeoy: i don't know
★Akumeoy: confusion is a naturally 50bp move so maybe it was coded as two 50bp hits?

Ult player sent out Beedrill (Beedrill-Mega)!
Turn 17
★Ult player: Maybe
★Akumeoy: but it would do way more damage if it was really 50bp, unless you're running a bulky spread

The opposing Beedrill used Fell Stinger!
It's super effective! these r stop signs hung on using its Focus Sash!
these r stop signs lost 99% of its health!

these r stop signs used Confusion!
It's super effective! The opposing Beedrill lost 20% of its health!
Hit 1 time!

The opposing Beedrill fainted!

It seems to think that Alakazam's Confusion is a multi-hit move.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Bug report, dunno if it's fixed in the most recent code update or not: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-moveequality-3630
Go! these r stop signs (Alakazam)!
Turn 16

these r stop signs used Confusion!
It's super effective! The opposing Keldeo lost 43% of its health!
It's super effective! The opposing Keldeo lost 38% of its health!
Hit 2 times!

The opposing Keldeo fainted!
★Akumeoy: w-what
★Ult player: Wait
★Ult player: what just happened
★Akumeoy: i don't know
★Akumeoy: confusion is a naturally 50bp move so maybe it was coded as two 50bp hits?

Ult player sent out Beedrill (Beedrill-Mega)!
Turn 17
★Ult player: Maybe
★Akumeoy: but it would do way more damage if it was really 50bp, unless you're running a bulky spread

The opposing Beedrill used Fell Stinger!
It's super effective! these r stop signs hung on using its Focus Sash!
these r stop signs lost 99% of its health!

these r stop signs used Confusion!
It's super effective! The opposing Beedrill lost 20% of its health!
Hit 1 time!

The opposing Beedrill fainted!

It seems to think that Alakazam's Confusion is a multi-hit move.
I'm on PerfectPokemon Showdown now. Come online and we'll test to see whether its just Aqua's code or of this is on the PP server as well.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
It's an issue on Aqua. Going to reset files tonight as there've been strange things happening (Tier Shift boosts in random OMs, a change from Universal in this).
 
Bug report, dunno if it's fixed in the most recent code update or not: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-moveequality-3630
Go! these r stop signs (Alakazam)!
Turn 16

these r stop signs used Confusion!
It's super effective! The opposing Keldeo lost 43% of its health!
It's super effective! The opposing Keldeo lost 38% of its health!
Hit 2 times!

The opposing Keldeo fainted!
★Akumeoy: w-what
★Ult player: Wait
★Ult player: what just happened
★Akumeoy: i don't know
★Akumeoy: confusion is a naturally 50bp move so maybe it was coded as two 50bp hits?

Ult player sent out Beedrill (Beedrill-Mega)!
Turn 17
★Ult player: Maybe
★Akumeoy: but it would do way more damage if it was really 50bp, unless you're running a bulky spread

The opposing Beedrill used Fell Stinger!
It's super effective! these r stop signs hung on using its Focus Sash!
these r stop signs lost 99% of its health!

these r stop signs used Confusion!
It's super effective! The opposing Beedrill lost 20% of its health!
Hit 1 time!

The opposing Beedrill fainted!

It seems to think that Alakazam's Confusion is a multi-hit move.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/perfectpokemonshowdown-moveequality-3721

Seems to work on the PP server - that's the most recently updated one
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Me and Akumeoy just had a few matches, and we very quickly found out that PuP Dragonite destroys souls

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/perfectpokemonshowdown-moveequality-3723

This wasn't the first game, and I am now kinda terrified by anything with PuP. IDK if this is on the replay or not, but there is a little talk at the end about mons and moves. I've got a log of it in case it isn't in the replay:
★Tiger Drive: Damn that Dragonite is terrifying
★Tiger Drive: So much stuff is so much better now oml
★Akumeoy: i did give it plenty of team support
★Tiger Drive: true
★Akumeoy: switch-ins to all its stoppers, save, like, kyub
★Tiger Drive: Kyu-B can't switch in tho
★Akumeoy: true
★Tiger Drive: and it just dies at, like, +1/2
★Akumeoy: but it does murder most of my team
★Tiger Drive: to E-Speed
★Tiger Drive: tru
★Akumeoy: scizor is the closest i have to an answer
★Tiger Drive: *plots his counterteaming method for the tourney*
★Tiger Drive: XD
★Akumeoy: lel
★Akumeoy: i have a different team for the tourney
★Akumeoy: though i'm slightly wishing i would have used that for the casual battles because this one seems really strong
PerfectPKMNMatt192 joined.
★Tiger Drive: yeah this is terrifying XD
~PerfectPKMNMatt192: pup drag lololol
★Akumeoy: it kicks ass
★Tiger Drive: that thing is broken hello
★Tiger Drive: XD
★Tiger Drive: *supremely hard to beat
★Tiger Drive: no borked tho
★Tiger Drive: ... maybe
PerfectPKMNMatt192 left.
★Tiger Drive: This shows how scary PuP is in general
★Akumeoy: i'm content with letting power-up punch stay in the tier unless people figure out how to abuse it to make stuff broken
★Tiger Drive: Yeah
★Tiger Drive: Same here, but it is a possible future suspect
★Tiger Drive: it seems very likely that it'll get out of hand on certain 'mons
★Akumeoy: perhaps
★Tiger Drive: Lop, maybe
★Tiger Drive: 135 speed
★Akumeoy: lop could be scary
★Tiger Drive: STAB
★Tiger Drive: Scrappy
★Tiger Drive: I need to build around this now XD
★Tiger Drive: this sounds god-like
★Akumeoy: glad i'm running so many fighting resists
★Tiger Drive: Return hits them all!
★Tiger Drive: MWAHAHAHA!
★Tiger Drive: or whatever normal move
★Tiger Drive: idek what's in its movepool
★Akumeoy: i'm pretty sure lop can only set up on heatran and maybe megasaur here
★Tiger Drive: Yeah
★Tiger Drive: pair it with a self-KO-er/a trapper/slow voltturner and it could be scary tho
★Akumeoy: though heatran does actually live one from full health and puts it in espeed range with lava plume
★Tiger Drive: What's the calc?
★Tiger Drive: (for Lava)
★Akumeoy: 0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 141-166 (52 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
★Akumeoy: i'm pretty sure that's espeed range
★Akumeoy: 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lopunny: 103-122 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
★Akumeoy: apparently not, but it's definitely PuP range, and it can live a hit if its multiscale is intact
★Tiger Drive: Yeah
★Akumeoy: idk i'd consider this team prepared for mega lop so long as it doesn't switch in on a heatran with prior damage
★Tiger Drive: rocks prolly does the trick then
★Akumeoy: 's what starmie is for :)
★Tiger Drive: XD
★Akumeoy: do you have any golurk replays? i wanna see how it pans out.
★Tiger Drive: Not ATM, but I can very easily modify my golurk team so it doesn't have keld
★Akumeoy: cool
★Akumeoy: i have stuff to do though
★Akumeoy: so you'll have to find someone else to play
★Tiger Drive: k
★Tiger Drive: golurk isn't that good on the team tbh
★Akumeoy: i feel like it needs speed control and a substitute to really kick ass
★Akumeoy: scolipede could be a good partner?
★Tiger Drive: Scoli or Webs
★Tiger Drive: it kinda suffers as a spinblocker tbh
★Tiger Drive: being weak to starmie and being ohkoed by LO Exca's bulldoze isn't exactly that helpful
★Akumeoy: true
★Tiger Drive: Its powerful as hell tho
★Tiger Drive: 125+Iron Fist Shadow Punch has so few switch-ins its insane
★Akumeoy: except normal types
★Akumeoy: but that's what coverage is for
★Tiger Drive: yeah
★Tiger Drive: Drain Punch annihilates them
★Akumeoy: or PuP
★Tiger Drive: ^
★Tiger Drive: if AV, use Drain Punch. If band, use PuP
★Akumeoy: if you have good speed control, i'd even suggest life orb
★Tiger Drive: if ur LO don't use PuP. Ur longevity ain't good enough for it.
★Tiger Drive: LO benefits from not having 11 attacks
★Tiger Drive: if it doesn't get hit
★Tiger Drive: (not likely)
★Tiger Drive: actually u could
★Tiger Drive: +1 Shadow Punch'll hurt
★Tiger Drive: its so slow tho
★Akumeoy: yeah but consider: an Adamant LO PuP + Shadow Punch + Ice Punch + Bulldoze, at +1, 2HKOs everything
★Tiger Drive: iirc it needs opp to be -2 to outpace a load of stuff
★Tiger Drive: yeah
★Tiger Drive: it'll hurt a lot
★Tiger Drive: something I've messed around with a bit is spell tag
★Tiger Drive: it didn't end up that well...
★Akumeoy: yeah i can imagine
★Akumeoy: especially with wanting to spam PuP
★Tiger Drive: too weak on anything other than S-Punch and not bulky enough
★Akumeoy: anyways i g2g
★Tiger Drive: l8r

tl;dr: the key talk after the matches was on the topic of PuP. He feels that it'll be fine unless people find ways of abusing it to be broken (I agree with him for now), but the key issue is that it seems like it'd be very easy to abuse. Therefore, the current key topic of discussion will is PuP. What uses it well? How do teams take advantage of it? However, the most important question that needs to be answered over the next few days is this: is it broken? If you play in any of the upcoming tourneys (including the one today), make a point of messing around with it and trying out counter-measures to its abuse so that we can get a more accurate idea of its effect on the metagame.

edit: another thought about PuP is that it makes it basically impossible for stall (full or semi) to thrive due to it turning basically anything with access to it (most (not all) physical attackers) into a stallbreaker without even realising what they're doing. This mandates that Coffagrigus and/or Shedinja is basically vital to the success of any stall team (Mummy gets rid of Scrappy, good physical bulk etc.), and even before consideration of that it is debatable as to whether the playstyle is even viable with PuP running around. While without PuP full stall would still have trouble, semistall would become a legitimate option due to its slight offensive presence.

Akumeoy whenever you get back could you post an importable of the Dnite set u used? IDK what the specifics (e.g. EVs, coverage etc.) were, and it'd be helpful for people to see what was used in the replay (that sh*t is threatening as hell).
 
Last edited:

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
OK plz nerf pup, tbh kanga wouldn't have been too too broken (probably still too good for OU though) if it didn't have this move, it's an attacking Sharpen that has a great offensive typing and 100 base power. Ferrothorn? Lol. Skarmory? If I'm slower you can't roost. And it just gets stronger and stronger over time. Fell stinger bee is one thing, but this is far more broken. Please change it to 40 power.
 
Akumeoy whenever you get back could you post an importable of the Dnite set u used? IDK what the specifics(e.g. EVs, coverage etc.) were, and it'd be helpful for people to see what was used in the replay (that sh*t is threatening as hell).
Standard DD Nite with PuP as its coverage move.

RHYME VIGILANTE (Dragonite) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Power-Up Punch
- Extreme Speed

Not the most creative thing on the planet, but it works.

At the risk of stating the obvious: I feel like the key feature of Power-Up Punch that makes it defining is that it combines boosting without sacrificing offensive pressure, which we know from Linked (Boost+Attack was probably the best strategy in the tier) and Serperior (which is A- in OU on the basis of Leaf Storm becoming Nasty Plot, despite being NU material in all other respects) to be a seriously deadly combination. Power-Up Punch is exactly as powerful as any other physical Fighting-type move, and is slightly worse at boosting than Dragon Dance, but it's the matter of doing both at the same time that gives the opponent little breathing room and makes prediction so much easier.

Offense can apply offensive pressure to force the opponent to use other moves, or revenge kill easily. Balance can run any number of things to tank PuPs and hit back. Stall has very little chance of doing good in this meta between full-power trapping moves and generally higher power in general, so PuP doesn't make a whole lot of difference. I don't feel like any otherwise-viable playstyles suffer too much from it, so it's a question of whether it's overcentralizing, rather than overpowered.

OK plz nerf pup, tbh kanga wouldn't have been too too broken (probably still too good for OU though) if it didn't have this move, it's an attacking Sharpen that has a great offensive typing and 100 base power. Ferrothorn? Lol. Skarmory? If I'm slower you can't roost. And it just gets stronger and stronger over time. Fell stinger bee is one thing, but this is far more broken. Please change it to 40 power.
Given that this is an OM and not a Pet Mod, if 100bp Power-Up Punch is found to be unhealthy, I'd rather just ban the move than make an unwarranted mechanics exception for it.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Yeah. I'm not making an exception for PuP. Either it stays with 100 BP or it gets banned alongside Mud Slap.

edit: if you're interested as to how semistall would work in the meta, I've built a semistall team that attempts to fend against the current meta trends. I did some brainstorming with Akumeoy in the chatroom (without him knowing I was secretly planning a team to unleash upon the thread >:D) and this is what I came up with:
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulldoze
- Waterfall
- Curse
- Recover

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Baton Pass / Swords Dance
- Bug Bite
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Taunt / Knock Off

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Fire Spin / Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Toxic

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Timid Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Dragon Breath
- Wish

Wobbuffet @ Custap Berry / Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 52 HP / 232 Def / 224 SpD
Bold Nature
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Encore
- Destiny Bond

The reason Wobbuffet is being used over Gothitelle is simple: it is more useful given the heavily offensive nature of the metagame in conjunction with how it thrives v.s. offense. Curse Gastro is there as a wincon late-game, although CroCune is an option if you want something with Scald. Shedinja is actually rather good in the meta due to it being immune to a large number of extremely good moves, including PuP (even with Scrappy/Foresight), Scald, Icy Wind and a wide range of hidden powers. The reasoning behind the Sable spread is because it does basically the same stuff as in singles (never 2HKOed by Balloontran's Lava Plume, able to take on Lando-T reasonably effectively etc.), and I chose WishFog 'mence over Skarmory due to the team's notable lack of reliable recovery within key defensive 'mons (Tran, Wobbuffet). A lot of these are ported from OU and still apply in this meta (e.g. Mence outpaces jolly diggs, Wobb takes Bisharp's Knock Off etc.).

edit: Fixed Shedinja so that it can only have either SD or BP.
 
Last edited:
Yeah. I'm not making an exception for PuP. Either it stays with 100 BP or it gets banned alongside Mud Slap.

edit: if you're interested as to how semistall would work in the meta, I've built a semistall team that attempts to fend against the current meta trends. I did some brainstorming with Akumeoy in the chatroom (without him knowing I was secretly planning a team to unleash upon the thread >:D) and this is what I came up with:
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulldoze
- Waterfall
- Curse
- Recover

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Baton Pass / Shadow Sneak
- Bug Bite
- Will-O-Wisp
- Swords Dance

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Taunt / Knock Off

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Fire Spin / Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Toxic

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Timid Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Dragon Breath
- Wish

Wobbuffet @ Custap Berry / Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 52 HP / 232 Def / 224 SpD
Bold Nature
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Encore
- Destiny Bond

The reason Wobbuffet is being used over Gothitelle is simple: it is more useful given the heavily offensive nature of the metagame in conjunction with how it thrives v.s. offense. Curse Gastro is there as a wincon late-game, although CroCune is an option if you want something with Scald. Shedinja is actually rather good in the meta due to it being immune to a large number of extremely good moves, including PuP (even with Scrappy/Foresight), Scald, Icy Wind and a wide range of hidden powers. The reasoning behind the Sable spread is because it does basically the same stuff as in singles (never 2HKOed by Balloontran's Lava Plume, able to take on Lando-T reasonably effectively etc.), and I chose WishFog 'mence over Skarmory due to the team's notable lack of reliable recovery within key defensive 'mons (Tran, Wobbuffet). A lot of these are ported from OU and still apply in this meta (e.g. Mence outpaces jolly diggs, Wobb takes Bisharp's Knock Off etc.).
Note that Swords Dance and Baton Pass are incompatible. Sad, I know.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Note that Swords Dance and Baton Pass are incompatible. Sad, I know.
RIP in pepperoni :[

Edited to account for this. Basically, the difference is that it will always carry Shadow Sneak as opposed to SD.
==============================================================================
Anyway, the tourney system I have ATM isn't working. At all. Therefore, I am changing the system to make it more welcoming to more players.

There will be a weekly tourney at 8 PM BST (7 PM GMT) in the chatroom at http://perfectpokemonshowdown.psim.us/moveequality. However, as IDK what times people are available, I am letting you all decide which day to host the tourney on (Saturday or Sunday). There are pros and cons to each, and I don't know what patterns people have due to different households/countries/occupations etc. - which is why I am giving you the choice rather than being a dictator. That and so that I can put you into a false sense of security in order to slowly start controlling your lives as the dictator I actually am >:D. To vote, simply pick a choice in the strawpoll below (it is set to check for IP addresses so don't try voting multiple times) and sit back and wait.

http://strawpoll.me/5625938

Signups for these tourneys will be open for the entirety of the 7 days before the tournament, so feel free to sign up on the server at any point during the week, and I will be making a league table of players - using their average position (as a decimal) in such a way so that lowest score is in the highest position - to get an idea as to whom to watch out for in the tourneys and to give the top players bragging rights that uses data from the previous 10 tourneys so as to give newer players a shot at hitting the top, and the winner of that week's tournament is allowed to put whatever they want (within reason) in the room intro for the week. Also, to sweeten the deal, any player who ever obtains a position score of under 0.300 will be permanently given room voice*, and any player who ever obtains a score of under 0.200 will receive a permanent room driver status*.
*Both of these are subject to relief, so don't be a f*ckwad if you get promoted as I or any other member of room/global staff will not hesitate to relieve you of your power if you are.
 
Last edited:

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Off topic real quick, but I've added Matt_192's banner to the OP as the "artwork"because Typhlito's computer is out of action (he's my artist of choice) and the image he made cracks me up. Sure its a little outdated (Keldeo's Troll form is in the pic and the Golurk hype still existed), but its still funny and it has my dream of seeing Excadrill ride a bulldozer on it.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
*sighs at the tied vote*

Ok, as there was a tie, I'm just going to make it bi-weekly. The tournament will take place every saturday and sunday at 6 PM GMT. The sunday tourney will have all of the time between the end of the saturday tourney(s) and the start of the sunday tourney, and vice versa for the saturday tournament. The first one will be tomorrow (Sunday) at 6 PM GMT, so use that time to prepare your teams etc.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Two things:
  • Signups for the roomtour are open on the PP server. (please come on I want there to be some players :[)
  • I have promoted Akumeoy to room driver on said server as I've not had many people on the server and he has been the only one that I've had any major discussions with. I needed more room staff anyway so that there can be more toruneys, and he felt like he was aware of strats and problems etc. in the meta, making him a good candidate for the position. I hope to have the honour of promoting more people in the future, and I want to encourage activity on the server.
Also, I'd like to see more discussion on PuP and semi-trapping moves. I encourage people to play the meta so that this thread doesn't fill with theorymon about the move, and if anyone wants a game just send me a PM on either Aqua or perfectpokemonshowdown.psim.us/moveequality (I'll be on the username Tiger Drive) and I'll happily play any time if I'm online (I'll try to be online whenever I'm home).
 
Last edited:
With some brief testing, I think rain can be a powerful playstyle. Thoughts:
  • Waterfall and Scald, the most common Water moves used on rain teams, got a 25% power boost. Additionally, Hydro Pump has become redundant, freeing up a moveslot for Specially-inclined Water-types.
  • Ferrothorn and Chansey are much less viable now. The rise of Physical Fighting-type coverage and the decline (death?) of stall limits options for fighting against rain.
  • As a result, Omastar got a lot better. Only needing to run one Water STAB in Scald, it has room for three of Ancient Power, Earth Power, Ice Beam, and Hidden Power Grass, which let you basically pick and choose what non-special-sponge things you want to deal heavy damage to.
  • Mega Swampert gets access to Power-Up Punch, and additionally has its Ice Punch boosted substantially. It's largely unwallable outside of bulky Water-types and Mega Venusaur.
  • Kabutops doesn't gain much other than what's already been listed, though it does prefer Rock Smash to Low Kick and Smack Down to Stone Edge.
In some battles with gamer boy, I also found out that sun is strong, with Char Y and Venusaur getting serious boosts from this meta as well.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Posting to welcome Akumeoy to the Move Equality council. I've been talking to and playing matches with him more and he has definitely proven that he knows this meta better than most of the people I know, so I felt that he would be a great addition to the team. With this promotion also comes the promotion to roommod. Congratulations!
=============================================================================================
In the match that he talked about above, we ended up discussing the effect of partial-trapping moves. We both agreed that some of them (those with insane distribution+100% accuracy in conjunction with a wide range of alternative attacks without their presence in the meta; those with unhealthy strategies attatched to them) were completely unhealthy with no real benefits attatched to their presence. As a result, we discussed the pros and cons of all of them and decided to do the following:

Quickban:
  • Whirlpool (insane distribution, all Pokémon with access to it have very viable alternative options, all viable Pokémon with access become plain unhealthy with the move)
  • Fire Spin (insane distribution, all Pokémon with access to it have very viable alternative options, all viable Pokémon with access become plain unhealthy with the move)
  • Infestation (insane distribution, 100% accuracy, all Pokémon with access to it have very viable alternative options, all Pokémon with access become plain unhealthy with the move)
  • Sand Tomb (Sand Tomb Gliscor is AIDS)
Leave legal:
  • Bind (poor distribution, most users make better use of other moves, provides a small number of Pokémon a niche to the point of being healthy for diversity)
  • Wrap (poor distribution, provides a small number of Pokémon (namely Milotic) with a niche to the point of being healthy for diversity)
  • Magma Storm (poor distribution, provides a healthy niche for Heatran)
  • Clamp (poor distribution, improves Cloyster's niche and gives Barbaracle a niche)
These should be put into effect immediately. Matt_192 Snaquaza can you implement these bans onto your servers?

Please also note that Power-Up Punch is still up for discussion.
=====================================================================================
As an aside, here's the replay of sun being good:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/perfectpokemonshowdown-moveequality-3773

This is the match between me and Akumeoy that he mentions in his previous post. Char-Y+Duggy is a dangerous combo in the meta, and Charizard's increased diversity could allow for sets beyond the one I used (but ignore Fire Spin); however, Charizard has a plethora of very viable options available to make zard y very dangerous to a wider array of teams.
 
Last edited:
Whirlpool and Fire Spin are 85% accuracy, actually.

Magma Storm is literally identical to in Standard, so it's not like it would make sense to ban it anyway.

I haven't been playing Move Equality enough to have a strong opinion on Power Up Punch, and in particular on whether there's a few Pokemon that are broken with it or if it's just fundamentally unhealthy. I need to get back to it, honestly.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Whirlpool and Fire Spin are 85% accuracy, actually.
Oh my bad. Their distribution is insane enough to warrant a ban though, as basically everything that gets the moves and is viable just become plain unhealthy to fight against with them while having viable alternatives (see: Scald, Incinerate, Lava Plume etc.). Will adjust the points accordingly tho, so thanks for pointing it out I swear I never miss with these moves
 
More sets.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 S

Darmanitan @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Bulldoze
- Rock Smash
- Zen Headbutt


Darmanitan got 140 base Attack and Sheer Force. Its low powered moves have side effects! Which means it got boosted. So walls, good luck facing this.
Just keep Rock Smash, bulldoze, flame charge rock tomb. If it receives a solo Speed pass from scolipede, God have mercy on the metagames
 
I think Fell Stinger is probably the biggest threat around- all non evasion moves(aerial ace, shock wave, magical leaf, FAIRY WIND would bloody murder- Talonflame sweep, steel wing can b more of a threat. But draining kiss tho...
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I think Fell Stinger is probably the biggest threat around- all non evasion moves(aerial ace, shock wave, magical leaf, FAIRY WIND would bloody murder- Talonflame sweep, steel wing can b more of a threat. But draining kiss tho...
Nah. PuP is the most threatening thing in the meta ATM. Beedrill, while very good with Fell Stinger, often prefers to run U-turn to provide support to its teammates. The standard set is U-Turn+Poison Sting+Drill Run (KOs Tran)/KOff (utility)/Pursuit (traps psychics which it forces out)+Protect. However, if you opt for Fell Stinger, a viable set to run is Fell Stinger+Drill Run+Protect+Poison Sting/Twineedle (2 100 BP hits after STAB Adaptability)/U-Turn. Most of the stuff that gets Fariy Wind prefers another move, be it Moonblast (has that nasty 30% SpA drop rate), Draining Kiss or Pixilate-boosted attack. Often the moves which ignore the accuracy check are made redundant by things with higher PP, such as Wing Attack, Peck etc., or moves with helpful effects e.g. Pluck. Talon really doesn't need Steel Wing; it has low accuracy and means sacrificing roost or Natural Gift. Band sucks, and that is the only set where it sees any use.

Draining Kiss is spectacularly good, but its distribution is an issue. Klefki is the only user which has made a splash so far, although Aromatisse could see some use on fatter teams - and it gives Clefable serious competition as the premier fat fairy due to Draining Kiss+a more specialised stat spread.

edit: I've messed around a bit in the teambuilder and I've thought of something which helps patch up the key problems with Golurk; it hits plenty hard enough anyway with Shadow Punch+Bulldoze+PuP anyway, it is too slow/frail to make good use of AV (even with Iron Fist-boosted Drain Punch) and it is too slow to use Scarf effectively (starmie outpaces fml) so I thought I'd slap sash on it. It takes good advantage of its typing (immune to Volt Switch/Charge Beam/Nuzzle, immune to Secret Power/Fake Out etc.), allows it to semi-reliably lay rocks and allows it to guarantee a hit, allowing it to break something, set up on forced switches and still attack and take better advantage of Bulldoze due to living a hit. Gonna mess with it more later and will hopefully report back w/ results.
 
Last edited:
This metagame looks really cool can't wait to try it out. Quick question is there viability ranking of what's good.
Not yet, but you should get a solid idea of what to prepare for by skimming the thread, particularly the last few pages.

In general, setup sweepers are unusually good, stall has trouble because coverage moves are so good, Power-Up Punch is a menace on many Physical attackers. Special attackers get much better Hidden Powers at their disposal, some Physical attackers love buffed Elemental Punches/Fangs. Knock Off, because it doesn't get a boost, isn't as much of a threat as it is in OU, though utility-focused builds might still run it.

Basically, if something is kept out of OU by its low-BP moves, it could see use here; if something is already good in OU despite its low-power moves, it'll be a lot better. If something rides on the power of its moves to be good in OU (cough-Victini-cough), it has to either adapt or get out.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top