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Mr Mime (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by jc104, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    [Overview]

    <p>In almost all situations, Mr. Mime is a very poor choice in OU. In terms of stats, ability, and movepool, Alakazam and Espeon are almost completely superior. However, Mr. Mime's ability, Soundproof, gives it a niche on full Baton Pass teams, as it gives Mr. Mime immunity to Perish Song and Roar. In fact, it's the only Pokemon with access to both Soundproof and Baton Pass, and therefore the only good answer to Perish Song that Baton Pass teams have.</p>

    <p>In some ways, Mr. Mime fits very well onto a Baton Pass team. Its movepool for Baton Passing is exceptional, including Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, and Barrier for boosting; Taunt and Encore for support; and of course the obligatory Substitute and Baton Pass. Mr. Mime's Special Defense is also excellent, so in conjunction with Calm Mind, Mr. Mime can wall almost every special attacker. However, Mr. Mime's Psychic typing is far from ideal, bearing in mind that Espeon is mandatory for Baton Pass teams, and Mew and Celebi are also very strong Baton Passers. Mr. Mime's physical frailty is a severe drawback, and only further compounds the weaknesses of Espeon. Altogether, though, Mr. Mime is a reasonable Baton Passer even when there is no threat of Perish Song, and as such is a staple on dedicated Baton Pass teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Encore
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Soundproof
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is designed for use on full Baton Pass teams, acting as a special wall and Calm Mind passer. Mr. Mime can boost its already excellent Special Defense even higher through the use of Calm Mind, preventing most special attackers from breaking its Substitutes. Keeping a Substitute up is absolutely critical to Baton Pass teams, as it protects them from critical hits, moves such as Trick and Thunder Wave, and for that matter any unexpected attacking move. Be warned that you still need to watch out for Dragon Tail, as it is often strong enough to break Mr Mime's Substitutes. Encore is the preferred option in the last slot, as it gives your team an answer to setup sweepers, and can be used to prevent unwanted moves such as Taunt. With the opponent locked in, Mr. Mime and its teammates should find it very easy to set up boosts.</p>

    <p>The main reason to use this set is that Mr. Mime's ability, Soundproof, provides an answer to Perish Song, a move that otherwise almost completely counters Baton Pass teams. To clarify, Mr. Mime is immune to the move itself, rather than to the Perish counts, which it can still receive, pass on, and succumb to. This is not a problem, though, as Mr. Mime deals with the most common Perish Song users, Politoed and Celebi, rather well. You'll need to switch into them before fully knowing their sets fully, but Mr. Mime can take even a Choice Specs Politoed's Hydro Pump at full health and Baton Pass back out again. Soundproof also gives immunity to Roar, which helps to take some pressure off Espeon (a fixture on Baton Pass teams), and Bug Buzz, which helps a lot against Volcarona. Mr. Mime is a surprisingly good answer to it, as Mr. Mime can Encore Volcarona into Quiver Dance and take its Fire attacks reasonably well.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread on this set is very simple&mdash;Special Defense is maximized so that Mr. Mime can set up against special attackers, while its Defense is not even worth salvaging. Every bit of that Special Defense is needed to take a Choice Specs Politoed's Hydro Pump in the rain. Mr. Mime's base 90 Speed is adequate without investment after a few Speed boosts from Ninjask or an Agility passer. A number of alternative moves are also available. Although Calm Mind is the preferred boosting move, as it helps to wall special attackers, which include the most common Perish Song users, Barrier is also a reasonable option, turning an appalling defensive stat into an appealing one. You can even use both Calm Mind and Barrier at the expense of Encore. Nasty Plot is not such a good option, as it leaves Mr. Mime's Substitutes easily breakable, even leaving it vulnerable to Politoed and Celebi. Taunt is very similar to Encore&mdash;it prevents moves such as Whirlwind and opposing Taunt, as well as stopping setup sweepers, albeit less effectively. It's also helpful to carry an attacking move sometimes. If your Baton Pass chain is about to be broken, launching a powerful, boosted move is a great idea. Sometimes you just want to remove a Pokemon that could be a problem later in the game, and having an attacking move helps with this. Although Psychic and Psyshock do come with STAB, troublesome Pokemon are immune to them, including Tyranitar and especially Sableye. Thunderbolt hits Politoed hard and does great damage to Sableye and Tornadus, which threaten to break your chain with priority Taunt. Thunder is similar, but trades general reliability for a powerful hit on Politoed and Tornadus. Still, too many Pokemon are immune to Electric, which prevents Mr. Mime from sweeping effectively.</p>

    <p>Mr. Mime should always be used on a full Baton Pass team, which means that its teammates are somewhat inflexible. Espeon is absolutely compulsory, as its ability, Magic Bounce, protects the team from Taunt, Encore, and phazing moves. It also makes a great receiver thanks to Stored Power. Although stacking up physically frail Psychic-types might not seem ideal, Espeon is too important. Next, you should be looking for something to pass Speed boosts. Ninjask is the best choice, as it can reliably pass at least +3 Speed, even in the face of Taunt, thanks to Mental Herb. Vaporeon is a really solid choice for Baton Pass, thanks to its good stats and large Substitutes; it can pass Acid Armor or perhaps Aqua Ring to the rest of the team too. A Scizor or Mawile is also a good option, providing lots of resistances, good physical walling ability, and Iron Defense boosts for the team. </p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>If you are considering Mr. Mime for anything other than a Baton Pass team, you are better off using Alakazam instead, as it's stronger, faster, and has Magic Guard. There are a few lesser options that weren't mentioned for the Baton Passer set, though. Hypnosis, Thunder Wave, and Confuse Ray can cause general disruption and provide setup opportunities. Other attacking options are available, such as Signal Beam and Hidden Power, if you want an attack nothing is immune to, but they won't be as generally strong as Psychic and Thunderbolt .</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Countering Mr. Mime on its own is not at all difficult. After all, the set listed doesn't even have any attacking moves. Countering full Baton Pass teams is another matter entirely. Just slapping any old Taunt, Roar, or Perish Song user isn't going to cut it. However, using a phazer or Taunt user that can heavily damage Espeon (and Mr. Mime) is still very helpful. A Taunt or Roar Tyranitar, for example, will beat Baton Pass teams almost single-handedly. Even Skarmory and Hippowdon can do good damage to Espeon with Brave Bird and Earthquake respectively&mdash;it might not go down the first time, but it will go down eventually. Priority Taunt users, such as Sableye and Tornadus, are also pretty much full stops to Baton Pass teams, especially if they can come in on a Pokemon with no attacking moves like the given Mr. Mime set. Some setup sweepers can boost alongside the Baton Passers and emerge victorious, although Mr. Mime's Encore can be problematic for them; good examples include Swords Dance Scizor, Dragon Dance Dragonite, and Quiver Dance Volcarona. Make sure to attack Mr. Mime if it comes in rather than continuing to boost. Cloyster performs strongly against Baton Pass teams thanks to its strong setup move and ability to break through Substitutes with Icicle Spear. However, it has major problems with Vaporeon, which is present on most Baton Pass teams. Lastly, Haze is a move that serves almost no purpose other than to completely counter Baton Pass teams&mdash;if you really need it, it's there.</p>


    • Failing all of that, just hope that baton pass doesn't show up, and when it does, label the opponent cheap and ragequit. Works well for me.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I think Mr. Mime should not try to set too many boosts alone - it's quite a fragile mon. You want to minimize the time Mr. Mime out in the field, and quickly baton pass to more bulky BP mons like Vaporeon, etc.

    Therefore, I think Barrier is NOT worth the fourth slot - Scizor or Vaporeon are better for setting up Defense boosts. Mr. Mime is more notable for its disruption moves, such as Encore, Taunt, or even Hypnosis / T-Wave to cut off whatever anti-bp measure the opponent may possess.
  3. tehy

    tehy

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    I think Pocket has a point, but I'd slash Barrier after CM. I specifically remember a BP team user complaining he had no good Defense boosters, and he didn't want to use 'Zor or Vappy. He was using Mew for something else. Meanwhile, Calm Mind is a lot easier to pass. Sure, CM makes your sweep quicker, but still, it's an option. After all, Mr. Mime's purpose is just to boost while rejecting Perish Songs (And roars, if it comes to that.)

    Edit: Ooh, he gets taunt? Nice.

    Also, does he learn stored power? I feel like that's usually better than psychic, since you usually have a few boosts before you go to Mr. Mime. But you might go really early instead of espeon, so it's not totally better, I suppose.

    And I think that if you're using mr. Mime but not espeon, you might consider just using Espeon>mime. Taunt and whirlwind are worse than Psong Imo;I suppose the opposite argument could be made but eh.
  4. ginganinja

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    Personally, I would prefer the last slot to look something like the following

    Taunt / Encore / Psychic (or something).

    The reason I prize Taunt so high is that it shuts down many of the common ways of beating Baton Pass (such as setting up, Taunting or phazing with Whirlwind) and this is invaluable. Sure, you have Espeon to prevent Taunt and phazing moves and shit, however there WILL be times Espeon is a risky switch in (will they attack the Espeon or use the phazing move) and its times like that where Taunt is very valuable, shutting down attempts to win. Encore is also good for also shutting down stat boosters (you potentially need something like Roar Vaporoen tho if force them out) and can score free boosting oppotunities, but requires the move to be used first which makes Taunt slightly better IMO. Psychic is in the third and final slot so you can do something if you got Taunted or something but I think the third slot is pretty flexible anyway.
  5. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Yeah I like the look of Taunt. Taunting Roar and stuff from Skarmory is always nice, and Espeon isn't the best teammate for Mr Mime.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
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    I don't think a boosting move like Calm Mind is too much of a requirement on this set for the reasons posted above me. IMO Mr. Mime is more of an "in-between" for Baton Pass chains for the predictable Perish Song user coming your way, so it only needs to set up Substitute (maybe Taunt a little) then get the heck out of there for something that can set up on Celebi/Politoed/whatever.
  7. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Look, espeon is a compulsory pokemon on a full baton pass team. If you think espeon is too bad a teammate for mr mime, I honestly think you should reject this immediately. I don't value taunt so highly because Mr Mime is very similar to espeon - where the opponent could attack espeon instead of phazing, they could equally attack mr mime as it taunts with a very similar effect. I suppose it matters if espeon is already weakened or somehow dead.

    It's worth mentioning that the boosting moves are there largely for walling stuff - preventing the opponent breaking your subs is important. It's also good to have something to do while sitting in front of a politoed that might use perish song (well, not if you use taunt I suppose). After one CM, it can't break the subs with scald.

    And it doesnt learn stored power as far as I can tell.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    That's why I personally prefer Encore, since Mr. Mime can lock the Pokemon into a terrible move and render it set-up bait. Encore > Taunt imho.
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    jc is right, both Espeon as a teammate and Calm Mind are musts. Espeon should be on every full baton pass team, and Calm Mind gives Mr.Mime something to do when coming in to block Perish Song from Celebi and Politoed, both of which use special attacks. Both Encore and Taunt are very useful on the set, but due to the Speed boosts Mr.Mime will have and the fact that stat-up boosters are very dangerous for baton pass teams, i think that Encore is a bit more useful than Taunt.
  10. Bossness

    Bossness

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    And I agree with Pocket. I have used Baton Pass a lot. It is funny when you can lock your opponent into Roar/Toxic(blocked by substitute)/Swords Dance (Eg Garchomp)/Bug Buzz(from Volcarona). Encore also gives you a free turn to Calm Mind/Substitute and can stop boosting sweepers (you can Baton Pass to Vaporeon afterwards and roar them out; Mr. Mime should be faster after it has received the Speed Boosts from Ninjask). Mention that Smeargle's Ingrain lets it use Substitute indefinitely(i.e until PP runs out) if Mr. Mime's Substitute it broken in two or more hits.
  11. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Speaking of the above, it may be worth just a little mention that Soundproof makes the mime immune to said Volcarona's Bug Buzz, since that's a mechanic not many people are aware of, and actually makes Mr Mime a great "pass-in" to Volcarona.
  12. ginganinja

    ginganinja Call me and I'll come
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    Hi QC finally got together and discussed this (Lavos / yee / Pocket / me). and decided that Encore should be the primary move on Mr Mime. Taunt, Psychic and Barrier all drop to AC as Encore is really one of the things that Mr Mime uses to differentiate itself from other CMers.

    Technically this is true, but I don't think Volc is a good option. I remember playing a Baton Pass team, and while I couldn't use Bug Buzz, I really didn't need to as +1 LO Fire Blast would start devastating everything. Sure, either way its a little iffy since with enough speed Mr Mime can try and stall, and Volc can just run an aggressive EV spread and spam Firey Dance. The real point, is that I still wouldn't pass to Mr Mime (id prolly pass a sub to Vaporeon and Roar it) unless I REALLY had no other option or was confident I could stall it out.

    Basically by all means mention that soundproof blocks Bug Buzz, thats perfectly fine, but don't stress Mr Mime is the best "Pass In" as in my experience both as an observer and a player it doesn't always work very well.
  13. tehy

    tehy

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    So if that's the case, is Barrier just shoved to AC? I suggested earlier that it be slashed after CM but I'm not really a BP player. The BP teams I played with mime used Barrier to reject my SpD hippo, which is good because SpD hippo can wear down Espeon and Mr Mime and then roar stuff out. On the other hand, CM is better overall and lets you cockblock Bulkytoed. I'd like to point out that, in my experience, CM is a little easier to fit on your team than defense boosts.
  14. ginganinja

    ginganinja Call me and I'll come
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    Barrior drops to AC since you are, by and large, a Calm Mind passer, and its usually Vaporeon / Scizor doing the defence boosting thing. Worth noting that Hippowdon can still phaze out Mr Mime even if you do run Barrier (in your scenario) thanks to Whirlwind so IMO its not worth it.
  15. tehy

    tehy

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    Ugh, i'm sorry. The whirlwind thing is so recent (In my mind;I hear it was allowed for a while and I didn't catch on) and I missed the Barrier too, my double bad.

    Yeah I guess AC is the best place for it, it's just that I often see Mr Mime as the only Def booster on a team. But really, yeah, those teams need to go get a different Def booster. And Encore's much better than Barrier.
  16. Lavo$

    Lavo$
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    noting that mr. mime can be passed into volcarona quite safely, even lacking any sdef boosts, and proceed to encore it into quiver dance or bug buzz. this is the best that most baton pass teams have for volc.
  17. tehy

    tehy

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    True, but unless you have Vaporeon with Roar (Which arguably deals with Volca all right anyway), or an attack that 2HKO's it (Also rare on BP), Encoring it into Quiver Dance isn't necessarily the best plan.

    Still, I can easily see it get caught using Bug Buzz (Espeon, maybe Celebi or Mew), and it can keep your Vaporeon in tip-top shape. I know it was already pretty discussed, but yeah, I'd still make a small mention that some players don't know Bug Buzz is blocked by Soundproof. Hell, I didn't even know that, and as a result I'm sure there are plenty of other players who don't.
  18. ginganinja

    ginganinja Call me and I'll come
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    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  19. Lavo$

    Lavo$
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    tehy, i was under the impression that most good bp teams ran a phazing move when i made that post, but apparently a lot of them don't. that's why i always advise roar on vap or ww on smeargle though ~_~ sorry for the miscommunication! on a related note,

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved (2/3)
  20. alexwolf

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    Some minor fixes:

    Explain a bit more why Calm Mind is used over other boosting moves, such as Nasty Plot and Barrier, especially when considering that some of them are rarer than Calm Mind. The main reason is to allow Mr.Mime to deal better with the Pokemon it is supposed to take care of-Perish Song users-aka Politoed and Celebi, which are both special attackers.

    On the same matter, what about slashing Amnesia with Calm Mind? Amnesia helps Mr.Mime too in dealing with Perish Song users, and buffs faster the special side. It's not as if Mr.Mime cares about its SpA as it doesn't have any offensive move, and Calm Mind is easy to fit on many of Mr.Mime's teammates, such as Celebi and Mew, so if Calm Mind is already on an other teammate Amnesia becomes the best option.

    Explain a bet more why Encore is used over Taunt. The main reason is that it fucks up stat up boosters if Mr.Mime comes in as they setup and is faster (easy with the speed boosts from Ninjask), and setup sweepers are generally dangerous for baton pass teams when played right.

    Why not Thunder then?

    Also on the checks and counters section, seeing as you mention counters for baton pass teams in general, you should definitely include Skarmory which threatens to 2HKO Espeon with Brave Bird or use Whirlwind and reset the chain if Espeon doesn't come in.
  21. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Mr Mime doesn't learn Amnesia, as far as I can tell. That's a pretty good reason not to slash it! (in principle, it would be ok but I'd still prefer CM).

    Regarding Tbolt/Thunder, the general thought was that you might want a solid attack to hit stuff with when you have a number of boosts under your belt. STAB not really being required, you can use an electric type move to hit the potentially troublesome politoed harder. The inaccuracy of Thunder threatens to break your baton pass chain, and so would rarely be used against non-rain teams.

    Otherwise, ok.
  22. alexwolf

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    I suggested Thunder because your reason for putting Thunderbolt was Politoed. If you want to hit Politoed then Thunder is better, and if you want an attacking move in general, Psychic is better. I guess Thunderbolt is a middle way between those two, but i never liked middle ways, and it's not as if Thunderbolt will be really useful against anything other than Politoed anyway.
  23. Lavo$

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    if someone could change the title of this thread to (qc 2/3) i'd appreciate it, thanks!

    try to get this written up quickly, though i guess it's not super high priority
  24. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    OK this is written. I still need to fix formatting and grammar things (probably) but it should be fine for QC purposes.

    Also, I remembered why it is that you use Tbolt, other than politoed - it does good damage to Sableye and Tornadus, the priority taunt users, which are the most notable things that force you to attack. Mr Mime otherwise lacks high base power moves - ground types are really annoying but signal beam is too weak for me.
  25. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Quick question here, couldn't find an answer anywhere else. Let's say that someone Perish Songs on, say, Scizor. Would Baton Passing to Mr. Mime remove the countdown, or does it stay, as usual?

    Great, thanks man.

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