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Mr. Mime

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Magnemite, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    Overview
    ########
    Because of its poor stats, Mr. Mime has a very difficult time carving a niche for itself in the OU metagame. However, it does have one useful trait, as it is the only Pokemon in the game with the combination of Soundproof and Baton Pass, so it is the only defense Baton Pass teams have against Perish Song from ruining their chain. Soundproof also gives Mr. Mime handy immunities to Roar, Hyper Voice, and Bug Buzz, while its new Fairy typing gives it an immunity to Dragon-type moves—most notably Dragon Tail. All of these traits, in addition to its great movepool, secure Mr. Mime a spot on nearly every full Baton Pass team.

    Baton Pass
    ########
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Calm Mind
    move 4: Encore
    ability: Soundproof
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 108 SpD / 148 Spe
    nature: Calm

    Moves
    ========

    Mr. Mime is only viable on full Baton Pass teams, so naturally Baton Pass is, by far, its most important move. Substitute is also mandatory, as it protects Mr. Mime and its teammates from status effects, Dragon Tail, critical hits, and Leech Seed, which would all cause major issues otherwise. Calm Mind is Mr. Mime's most reliable way of boosting its stats. After a few Calm Mind Boosts, most special attackers will be unable to touch it. Encore is useful because it can give Mr. Mime many free setup opportunities, especially if it encores the opponent into a move it is immune to, such as Roar, Perish Song, Bug Buzz, Hyper Voice, or a Dragon-type move.

    Set Details
    ========

    Leftovers is the preferred item because Mr. Mime needs to stay as healthy as possible in order to make Substitutes without wearing itself down too quickly. The given EVs are used to outspeed Deoxys-S at +2 Speed. This also allows it to outspeed Choice Scarf Garchomp at +2. The rest of the EVs are thrown into HP and Special Defense because all common Perish Song users in OU are special attackers. With the listed spread, Mr. Mime is able to survive a hit from any Perish Song user except for the rare Choice Specs Politoed. However, Mr. Mime can still survive a Choice Specs Hydro Pump if it has a Substitute up or a Special Defense boost.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Baton Pass to Mr. Mime whenever the opponent has a potential Perish Song, Dragon Tail, or Roar user out on the field. The only common users of Perish Song in OU are Politoed and Celebi. Mr. Mime is only immune to the move itself, not the actual Perish counter that activates after the move is used. Because of this, Baton Passing to Mr. Mime after Perish Song has been used does not stop Perish Song from working. If your opponent has a potential Perish Song user on their team, keeping Mr. Mime healthy is crucial because it must be counted on to switch in on a moment's notice. Because Espeon is so critical to the success of Baton Pass teams, knowing when to Baton Pass to it is crucial. Just one Whirlwind or Taunt is nearly always fatal. Whenever there is a slight chance of such a move being used, you need to Baton Pass to Espeon. Prankster Taunt users are especially tricky, since you need to pass to Espeon the turn before they switch in, which can be very difficult to predict. Mr. Mime is far from useless outside of its immunities. Its excellent Special Defense stat and access to Encore both allow it to have many opportunities to set up with Calm Mind. Make sure to have a few Defense and Speed boosts up before Baton Passing to Mr. Mime, as its awful physical bulk is very easy to take advantage of. It is also very important to keep a Substitute up whenever possible in order to prevent critical hits or status moves from ruining your chain.

    Team Options
    ========

    Espeon is a non-negotiable member of any full Baton Pass team. Its Magic Bounce ability is the only way Baton Pass teams have around Taunt and Whirlwind outside of the one-time-use Mental Herb item and the rather unreliable Ingrain Smeargle, respectively. It also helps in protecting the team from status-inducing moves and other miscellaneous moves, such as Encore. Scolipede is another important teammate. Its ability, Speed Boost, makes it by far the most reliable method of passing Speed boosts. It is essential for Baton Pass teams to outspeed the opponent in order to make sure the right Pokemon is always out on the field. Scolipede can also pass Substitutes, Iron Defense boosts, and Swords Dance boosts. Vaporeon is another Baton Pass staple with its boosting move of choice, Acid Armor. It possesses great defensive stats and a useful ability in Water Absorb. Mawile is a good teammate because of its excellent typing, great boosting moves in Iron Defense and Swords Dance, and useful Intimidate ability. Mega Scizor is very similar to Mawile in that it is a Steel-type with Iron Defense and Swords Dance. Its main draws over Mawile are its access to reliable recovery in Roost, and most importantly, its Technician Bullet Punch, which makes it one of the only ways Baton Pass teams have of beating Unaware Clefable. Celebi has access to Calm Mind, while Zapdos has a useful typing and access to Charge. Mew can use nearly every stat boosting move in the game, most notably Amnesia, Barrier, and Calm Mind. Smeargle is the only Pokemon in the game with both Ingrain and Baton Pass. As such, it is a useful Pokemon on Baton Pass teams because it can protect the entire team from being phased out while regaining a small amount of HP every turn. This takes a ton of pressure off of Mr. Mime and Espeon, as they are otherwise the only way to stop phazers from wrecking Baton Pass chains.

    Other Options
    ########

    Mr. Mime has a few other options. Energy Ball allows Mr. Mime to OHKO Haze Quagsire, after a bit of prior damage, which is otherwise a good answer to Baton Pass teams. However, it is often unecessary, as with minimal boosts, Espeon's Stored Power does enough to take out Quagsire. Magic Coat is an option over Encore in order to reflect certain moves such as Toxic or Encore. Its main draw, however, is its ability to reflect Prankster Taunt, which would otherwise be a major pain to deal with. Barrier is another boosting move in Mr. Mime's arsenal, but Mr. Mime's downright horrific physical bulk makes Calm Mind the better choice in nearly every situation. Dazzling Gleam can be used if one desires an attacking move on Mr. Mime. Its biggest advantage is that it hits Sableye, a major headache for Baton Pass teams, super effectively. However, the utility provided by Encore is usually too good to pass up.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Taunt**: Taunt, especially priority Taunt from Prankster users such as Thundurus, Mega Banette, or Sableye, can prevent Mr. Mime and its teammates from doing much of anything. Prankster Taunt users in particular can always get a Taunt off before you can Baton Pass to Espeon to bounce it back.

    **Haze**: Haze removes all of a Baton Pass team's hard earned stat boosts. In addition, it is completely unblockable outside of Taunt, which is nearly impossible to fit on a moveset of any Pokemon on Baton Pass teams. However, it is an incredibly rare move, with Quagsire being the only user of the move in OU.

    **Phazing**: Phazing is another issue for Baton Pass teams, though they have reliable methods of dealing with it in the form of Mr. Mime and Espeon. Mr. Mime is only affected by Whirlwind and Espeon is only affected by Dragon Tail and the never seen Circle Throw. Common Whirlwind users include Skarmory, Mandibuzz, and Hippowdon.

    **Physical attackers**: Strong physical attackers are a huge problem for Mr. Mime because of its terrible physical bulk. Scizor in particular easily OHKOes Mr. Mime with Bullet Punch.

    **Unaware**: Unaware Clefable and Quagsire wall Baton Pass teams to no end as those teams generally lack significant offensive presence. Clefable can also set up Calm Minds on most common Baton Pass Pokemon without fear. However, Unaware does not affect Stored Power's base power boosts, so even Unaware users can eventually succumb to Baton Pass teams.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
    TRC likes this.
  2. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    I personally would not even bother with Dazzling Gleam. It's more beneficial to Encore something (especially the PSong/Roar) and make CM/Sub setup way easier. Maybe OO, but tbh I don't see why you'd want an attack on a dedicated CM passer when Encore is a much more compelling option.

    Mention somewhere in usage tips that it's not immune to Whirlwind, so BP to Espeon when you see that coming. Also mention that you'll always have it come in after Scolipede and probably Vaporeon/Scizor, at the very least, unless a Roar/Perish Song threat is imminent. It'll then have the Speed and Defense so not investing in Speed/low Defense won't matter.

    From the overview, I don't think you need to mention that it's outclassed in everything else, because BP is where its niche lies. Who cares about what it does outside of full BP?

    In C&C: phazing = Hippowdon/Skarmory. Whirlwind.
  3. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    Mandibuzz too for Whirlwind.

    Also agreeing with Jukain - Encore is too important on Baton Pass teams because you can use it to your advantage.

    Mention Prankster Taunt users such as Thundurus, Sableye, and Mega Banette for counters. I know you mentioned Taunt but really priority Taunt should be your greatest fear to Baton Pass teams.
  4. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Another usage tip is if you predict a Prankster Taunt user, freaking BP out to Espeon.

    Actually, neatly, Mr. Mime gets Magic Coat. OO that for the Prankster Taunters, looks cool. It's a move I would maybe consider over Encore, though Prankster Taunters aren't /too/ terribly common.

    Haze is a non-existent move in OU. Everything that can run it besides Weezing has no other use for it and would prefer a move that's more useful in the 99% of battles not against BP. /Maybe/ you can mention a Taunter of your own as a teammate (maybe even Taunt on Smeargle), but I don't know how worth it that is with the non-existence of Haze. It would shut down BP, though. Maybe OO Psychic because it deals with most of the possible Hazers? idk.

    Physical attackers are only a threat if you don't have Defense boosts already. Especially since many of them cannot break through Scizor/Vaporeon easily, this is notable.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Haze is not non-existent in OU, Tentacruel commonly runs it, so be sure to mention it in checks and counters.
  6. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    tenta runs it ~3.7% of the time, which is not especially notable, and it has spin/scald/ice beam/knock off/toxic spikes/toxic/sludge bomb competing for a moveslot, but i guess you can mention it...just don't portray it as 'common' when it's really not that much.

    definitely oo psychic tho to screw tenta.
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Haze is a main move on Tenta's main set, so i don't know what you are talking about. Haze is almost a must on Tenta, just because people don't use Tenta right doesn't mean shit. Analyses are supposed to educate people about what's good and what's not, not follow usage stats formed by a largely bad/low skill level user base.

    So, when a reader reads Mr.Mime's analysis and wants to find a proper answer to it (and by extention, to Baton Pass teams), it's only logical that we should mention Tentacruel, because Haze IS a good option on it and we have already suggested in its analysis to run it.
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  8. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner Ain't no rest for the wicked

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    Also mention the unaware mons in the checks and counters section. Both of them laugh at Mr. mime and baton pass teams in general. Definitely need a workaround for those.
  9. CyclicCompound

    CyclicCompound ,,,@ ::
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    This is a very basic concept for Baton Pass teams, but be sure to include it in the usage tips: whenever possible, have a Sub up. I don't think it can be stressed enough, especially to new users of BP, that Substitute is one of the most important tools at their disposal (third only to boosting moves and Baton Pass itself). Mr. Mime in particular has atrocious HP and defense stats, so any moderately powerful crit will destroy Mr. Mime in a heartbeat.
  10. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Your workaround has to be for Clefable in particular. It should be Scizor with Bullet Punch, probably. Unfortunately, nothing gets Mold Breaker and Baton Pass :[ so it's your best bet.
  11. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    I believe Hawlucha gets Mold Breaker and Baton Pass.
  12. Namso

    Namso
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    Magnemite

    Still working on this? 24 hours to respond.
  13. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    I am, but I haven't had computer access lately so I haven't been able to do any testing. I haven't played too much with BP teams, so I want to do some testing before I proceed much further with this. Once I can use Showdown again I will start working on this some more.
  14. TheWhitestLotus

    TheWhitestLotus

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    Somebody might need to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure that snatch actually works on Whirlwind / Roar. Although Mr. Mime is immune to the latter, Snatch could be used to protect from Skarmory if you are for whatever reason not running Espeon. Snatch also (of course) steals opposing buffs etc. Might be worth mentioning in OO?
  15. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    Snatch really isn't worth it at all. Using BP without Espeon is an awful idea in almost every way imaginable. Espeon is what makes Baton Pass even a viable strategy to begin with. Stealing boosts really isn't worth it either because a: it requires prediction and b: the entire point of Baton Pass teams is to consistently boost yourself. Snatch really doesn't help at all. Also, it takes up a valuable moveslot, two of which are already non-negotiable.
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  16. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    This is QC ready.
  17. Unowninator

    Unowninator

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    It can be hit by Circle Throw too.
  18. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    The only OU viable Pokemon that even learns Circle Throw is Lucario, which never, ever runs it. In addition, it doesn't work against Substitute and Mr. Mime 4x resists it. I really don't think it's necessary to mention it, but it's technically correct, so I will if QC wants me to.
  19. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Mawile is the BPer, as Intimidate is a better ability, and Mawile doesn't waste your Mega slot.

    Fix this and QC Approved 1/3, solid work.
  20. Unowninator

    Unowninator

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    Are you saying that Mawile shouldn't Mega-evolve on Baton Pass teams?
  21. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    Implemented, thanks!
  22. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    I'm saying it shouldn't go Mega at all. alexwolf convinced me of this, and can back me up on it.
  23. Unowninator

    Unowninator

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    Objection!

    But its mega-evolution is the ONLY reason to be used, just like Kangaskhan & Charizard. IMO, it would be like using Marowak without a Thick Club.
  24. Hibiki

    Hibiki

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    It's been used in the past on dedicated baton pass teams, which is also the only usage Mr. Mime gets.
  25. Unowninator

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    Uh, I was talking about Mawile, not Mr. Mime.

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