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Muk (QC 1/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by MikeDecIsHere, May 17, 2012.

  1. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    Muk spelled backward is Kum LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    [​IMG]

    The champ


    [Overview]
    - Poison-type lol
    - Decent Attack, HP, and Special Defense
    - good coverage
    - Absorbs Toxic Spikes
    - can't take too many hits due to terrible typing with little common resistances, but does have some nice resistances to Grass, Fighting, and Poison.
    - Slow as balls
    - It's really gross

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Gunk Shot
    move 2: Brick Break
    move 3: Ice Punch
    move 4: Shadow Sneak / Payback
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Poison Touch
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - Power immediately without having to set up.
    - Cum Shot hits like a truck with a choice band
    - Brick Break is for coverage
    - Ice Punch hits Torterra and Altaria
    - Shadow Sneak gives you some form of priority, which is good because Muk is unfathomably slow.
    - Payback is viable because Muk is slow and will always go second.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - EV spread maxes out Attack and gives Muk some bulk. no point for speed, since Muk is slow as hell.
    - Sticky Hold is nice because it stops trick.
    - can have 52 Spe to outspeed min speed Torterra
    - Any Elemental Punch can be viable in the spot where Ice Punch is, but Ice Punch offers the best coverage
    - Poison Jab can be used over Gunk Shot for accuracy, but there is a huge drop of power, which is the only reason to use CB in the first place.
    - has problems with bulky ghosts with WoW, so teammates that can help with that are nice.
    - Teammates that have problems with walls like Ammonguss and Altaria are nice, since Muk is good at eliminating them.
    - Something to deal with Golurk and other EQers (Alomomola, Flyers, Tangela)
    - Pursuit users (Skuntank)
    - Spikes are nice (Cacturne and Omanyte)
    - Torterra works well with CB Muk, either Rocks or RP

    [SET]
    name: Curse
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Poison Jab
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Shadow Sneak / Rest
    item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - Slight attempt to sweep
    - Low Speed + Curse is ok
    - Poison Jab is STAB
    - Brick Break is coverage, decent with Poison
    - Shadow Sneak is for priority
    - Rest removes Burns and gives you a better chance against WoW / Scald users

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - Gunk Shot for more power but low accuracy and PP
    - Ice Punch?
    - Pain Split for recovery
    - ChestoRest
    - EVs for max special bulk
    - Sticky Hold is cool on a curser
    - Phasers suck, have teammates that remove them.
    - Deal with Golurk (Alomomola Tangela Flyers)
    - Ghost / Psychic types are a threat, good teammates for this are Absol or Skuntank.

    [SET]
    name: Sub Punch
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Focus Punch
    move 3: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    move 4: Ice Punch / Shadow Sneak
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sticky Hold
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - Can make 101 HP Substitutes
    - Sub + Focus Punch = Strength
    - Poison Jab is reliable STAB
    - Gunk Shot gives you two unreliable yet powerful attacks
    - Ice Punch is coverage, while Shadow Sneak is for weak priority

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - EV spread is for substitutes
    - still slow as hell, so if it's burned before it sets up a substitute, it's useless
    - bulky ghosts suck for this reason (drifblim and missy)
    - Steel-types that break Muk's subs destroy it since Muk has no reliable Fighting-type attack
    - Without Brick Break, Rock types become more annoying as well unless Muk has a sub up.

    [Other Options]
    - Elemental Punches
    - Weather inducer with Memento?
    - Pain Split
    - Haze
    - Not much else.

    [Checks and Counters]
    - Misdreavus / Drifblim
    - Phasers
    - Golurk
    - Alomomola can handle ones without Rest
    - Weezing
    - A strong Earthquake (Sawk)
    - Strong Psychic-type attacks (Gardevoir, though it doesn't want to switch in)
    - If not too many curses, strong Ground-type attacks
    - Golem can check it fairly well if not too many curses.
  2. TrollFreak

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    Wait, why did you remove the CB set? It has base 105 Attack, and hitting hard off the bat is worth a set
  3. Omicron

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    Choice Band is by far Muk's best set. It can KO a ton of shit with CB Gunk Shot (provided it hits, of course...)

    I used to think Curse is better, but the time it takes to set up is wholly unappealing, and it is much weaker initially. CB Muk packs enormous power from the start, and still retains great bulk with HP investment. I would even go as far as to say it should be the 1st set listed.
  4. alexwolf

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    Yeah CB is definitely worth it! CB Gunk Shot is strong as fuck, and he has very cool coverage options, such as Focus Punch, Brick Break, Fire Punch, Ice Punch and Shadow Sneak.
  5. DTC

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    I'm not much of a fan of CB -- Gunk Shot's accuracy sucks -- but it should be on here. SubPunch as well.
  6. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    CB definitely deserves a set, its probably the best one imo.

    Some thngs I would mention in OO: Pain Split, he's not a great abuser but I think it should be mentioned. Memento as you have, elemental punches. Explosion maybe? Muk also has a really good special movepool but can't really abuse it. Giga Drain / Thunderbolt / Sludge Wave / Fire Blast / Shadow Ball etc...
  7. MikeDecIsHere

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    ok, edited. I will add in set comments and additional comments for Sub Punch in a bit, gotta go eat.

    I didn't add special moves for Muk mainly because Muk has a horrid SpAtk stat of 65, meaning that most special moves would probably be harmful than good. Unless there are calcs that prove me wrong there.
  8. breh

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    Disable in OO? It seems like a pretty nice move and vs. mons like Musharna that only have one move that really hurts you, it seems effective.
  9. NatGeo

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    K, I'm gonna give this a go.

    • Overview:
    -mention that Muk faces stiff (LOL) competition from Arbok, thanks to Coil for a more powerful attack in a 75%ish accurate Gunk Shot.
    -mention some negative things in here; this is an Overview not why Muk is excellent. Muk is really slow, and it's defenses aren't the greatest in the world so strong attacks can usually take it out in a hit or two. Think hits from Magmortar, Braviary, the like.


    • CB:
    - Actually I would like to see Explosion moved to the AC of the Choice Band set. You're powerful enough to use it both with a high base Attack and Choice Band. I guess the only downside would be that it would be harder to use on teams with Misdreavus, since a) it walls you and b) it's immune to explosion, so you'll have no opportunity to use it in that situation... however, just mention that one little thing when you write this up!
    -Mention 52 Speed EVs in the AC. This allows you to outspeed min Speed neutral Torterra and under (148 Speed)


    • Curse:
    -IMO Payback should be slashed somewhere on here. If this were me I would put Payback over Rest in terms of slashes and move Rest to AC, since you don't have *too* much bulk to abuse it with, etc. RestoChesto in AC possibly?


    Otherwise from that, I think this is fine. Just finish the skeleton up! n_n
  10. Django

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    Eh I would tend to disagree on some of that. 105 / 75 / 100 defenses are actually good by NU standards, particularly for taking on Grass or Poison types like Serperior and Vileplume. Of course it struggles to take hits from Magmortar and Braviary, but so does everything else in the tier that doesn't resist Fire or Flying. Its defenses are one of the main reasons for using it over Arbok.

    Also, what purpose does Explosion serve on CB Muk? Its a last ditch effort at best but due to Muks poor Speed your going to have to take a hit (most likely) before using it, meaning you just sacrificed Muk in relatively good health for a move which has been nerfed to hell and has little to no use. Its got good coverage as well as priority, it should aim to take advtantage of this rather than killing itself.

    Payback is kind of pointless on Curse Muk. The only target you hit is Misdreavus, who is hit nearly as hard by Shadow Sneak and will just Taunt / WoW stall you anyway. Everything else (Haunter etc) dies to Shadow Sneak. ChestoRest is viable however and should go in AC of Curse.
  11. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    But Payback doubles in power against faster targets... unless I'm missing something.

    Although admittedly, I used Muk with Payback for a while and found it very underwhelming. The priority of Shadow Sneak is probably more useful overall.
  12. Django

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    Well yes it does, but it got nerfed in Gen 5 and no longer doubles in power on the switch, meaning that Misdreavus takes around 20% as it switches in and then Muk gets burned. Payback hits very little that Shadow Sneak will not beat anyway.
  13. MikeDecIsHere

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    @ NatGeo: My overview made it sound excellent? I think "poison-type, lol" sounds semi negative to me. But I included more negative things.

    I made the edits accordingly. I decided not to include Explosion and Payback mainly for the reasons that Django stated (since they are completely accurate imo, Payback sucks).

    I would say this skeleton is finished and ready for QC. Sorry for the delay!
  14. shnen

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    Focus Punch has 150 BP, Gunk shot has 120 BP while Ice Punch has 75 BP, so yeah change that bit.
    also, when using Rest I don't see why you'd rather use Leftovers over Chesto Berry, so I'd say slash that with Leftovers but mention in the SC/AC to only use Chesto when using Rest (although it should be obvious lol). It deserves more than AC in my opinion as it's basically superior when using Rest, but obviously QC needs to weigh in on this.
    also, it's spelt phazers, and status (burn, poison etc) isn't capitalised =p
    I'd mention that Muk, especially the Choice Band set really appreciates hazard support to wear down its switch-ins as it causes its fair share of switches, so probably add things like Cacturne, Omanyte etc to the AC, both of which pair decently well in terms of weaknesses. Obviously mention the usual suspects for Rocks as well, although Torterra perhaps pairs better than Rock-types due to synergy and the fact that Muk can eliminate/set up on Tangela, the #1 switch-in to Torterra. In fact, Muk and even Rock Polish Torterra pair well, so I'd just mention Torterra in general.
  15. MikeDecIsHere

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    made the edits.

    bump for this poor sloppy pile of toxic jizz
  16. Django

    Django
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    QC APPROVE 1/3
  17. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    QC APPROVED (2/3)

    no penis or "muk backwards" jokes plz

    mention that cb muk fucks over most walls pretty hard so it's best to pair that variant with dedicated sweepers. curse and subpunch are sets to build a team around and need much more support than the cb set for that reason. also, pursuit users are a good mention on all three of the sets since ghosties are fgts. there was a specific pokemon i had in mind as a partner for the subpunch set, but i don't remember what it was. i'll get back to you if i do remember
  18. Steamroll

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    QC Approved 3/3
  19. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    Ya I know, I just put it in the skelly, it won't be in the analysis.

    I'll add this stuff in and work on the write up over the weekend
  20. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    argh, I completely forgot about this. Did Muk get anything new in BW2 or should I just write this up?
  21. TrollFreak

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    Poison Touch and Pain Split are huge for Muk imo, so you'll prob need to make changes to reflect that.
  22. DTC

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    Muk does have some useful resistances. Grass, Fighting, and Poison are always great resistances to have in NU.

    Poison Touch should replace Sticky Hold in the ability slot because Knock Off and Trick users are pretty rare. I wouldn't use Pain Split on Muk because it has a bunch of other moves it wants to use and because it has a high base HP stat of 105.

    I'd make this go through QC on more time to be safe.

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  23. MikeDecIsHere

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    Poison Touch even for the curse set?

    Ok, I will add that in
  24. Zebraiken

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    Since Quagsire is gone and Amoonguss + Alomomola are so common, I think it's worth taking a further look into the Curse set and at least debate whether or not CB is actually the stronger set. Golurk needs to be mentioned as one of the best checks around if it can avoid a CB Ice Punch, since CB EQ smashes shit in. Golurk also means we should look into the Curse moveset, since it resists the combination of Poison + Fighting and Shadow Sneak does fuck all. I'd also like a little bit of expansion on C&C in general if we can; mention specifics where possible (Gardevoir when talking about Psychic-moves, though it doesn't want to switch in; Sawk EQ when talking about strong physical hits). Weezing needs to be mentioned as well, as its able to burn it, Clear Smog, outdamage it, w/e. Garbodor can do something similar but lacks recovery + ability to burn, can sorta set up on Curse Muk tho. There really should be emphasis on wearing it down, since it has no recovery at all. I also wouldn't mention Rest helping against Misdreavus on the Curse set, cos Missy will burn + Taunt you and you lose anyway. Does get rid of burns and provides recovery, but that's more useful against stuff like Alomomola.

    I'll post again if I think of anything else, but make those changes and you've got

    [qc]2/3[/qc]

    wow this qc bbcode is fantastic

    edit: actually i'd really like to see teammates expanded in every set since some are rather sparse atm. come talk to me on irc later if you're having trouble thinking of some, we can talk a few out.
  25. MikeDecIsHere

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    ok, I will make the changes after I come home from tennis, though if I cannot think of any teammates (since finding a reliable Golurk counter in NU is lol), I will come on IRC

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