1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Muk (QC 3/3) (GP: 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Punchshroom, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,509
    [​IMG]
    [Overview]

    <p>Muk is pretty solid as far as Poison-types go, especially among the ones that can absorb Toxic Spikes. Its solid Attack and Special Defense as well as good movepool allow Muk to tango with some of the most powerful special attackers in the tier. It has a unique ability which causes its contact moves to be capable of inducing poison, which is not only great for inflicting chip damage on opponents, but it's also hilarious when your Ice Punch poisons someone. What separates Muk from other slow Poison-types is Shadow Sneak, which turns it into a good offensive check to Jynx. However, Muk is slow and easy to wall as its coverage moves aren't quite strong enough to get the job done against bulkier opponents, and common weaknesses in Ground and Psychic hold it back. However, Muk still holds its own well in the NU metagame, and anything that can poison you while smacking you at the same time shouldn't be taken lightly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Touncher
    move 1: Poison Jab
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Ice Punch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Memento / Curse
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Poison Touch
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Poison Jab is your main STAB and has a nice 30% chance to poison, while Poison Touch stacks another 30% chance. To put it into perspective, that's a 51% chance to add a free 12% damage over time effect with your main move, and 30% chance for its other attacks, which is pretty cool no matter how you look at it. Shadow Sneak is Muk's priority and despite being pretty weak, it is important to hit Jynx, Haunter, and Kadabra which otherwise harass or threaten Muk. Ice Punch has great coverage, hitting Ground-types such as Golurk and Flying-types such as Mandibuzz and Golbat for decent damage. On the other hand, Fire Punch nails Metang and Scolipede, the latter of which can use Muk as easy Spikes fodder otherwise. The last move depends on what you want Muk to do: Memento helps a teammate to set up on the crippled opponent when Muk is running low on HP or has outlived its usefulness; Curse allows Muk to set up itself, using its good bulk and Toxic immunity to harass defensive teams and providing the power to break through.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Brick Break is an option to hit Probopass and Bastiodon, as well as hit Normal-types harder. A specially defensive spread with Curse is viable, but the lack of immediate power hurts its potential. Haze is cool in the last slot to stop boosters, though Muk is a tad bit slow for that, and Memento can already function similarly. Muk works very well with Mandibuzz because it is immune to both of Muk's weaknesses and can defeat threats like Golurk, while Muk can attempt to tank attackers that would prove too much for Mandibuzz to handle, such as Ludicolo and Eelektross. Ground-types such as Golurk and Seismitoad can defeat Regirock and other Rock-types that threaten Muk, as well as hitting Poison-types that wall Muk; Golurk can also hurt bulkier Psychic-types and Ghost-types such as Musharna and Misdreavus. Sawk works well because it can take down Rock- and Steel-types that can potentially wall Muk, while Muk returns the favor by poisoning walls so that they are more susceptible to Sawk's attacks. A lot of offensive Pokemon, such as Carracosta and Kangaskhan, work well with Muk because the extra poison damage it inflicts on walls such as Piloswine and Misdreavus can be the difference getting a KO and 2HKO. On the other hand, defensive Pokemon, more specifically those with Wish such as Audino and Alomomola, can keep Muk healthy and extend its longevity, while they can take advantage of poison by stalling with Wish and Protect.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Ice Punch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Explosion
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Poison Touch
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Band gives Muk extra power, especially when you consider its Poison-type STAB can threaten two of the bulkiest physical walls in the tier: Tangela and Alomomola. Poison Jab is reliable STAB and has a ridiculous chance to inflict poison, but Gunk Shot can 2HKO Alomomola, especially if poison is taken into account, but at the cost of not having Poison Touch's benefit nor good accuracy. Shadow Sneak is for priority and can take out frail Psychic-types and Ghost-types, with its power being more pronounced thanks to Choice Band, such as nabbing the clean OHKO on Jynx. Ice Punch is for hitting Ground-types and bulky Flying-types, though Gunk Shot does more damage against the majority of Flying-types. Fire Punch is an option to hit Scolipede and Metang, especially the former which could otherwise use Muk as an easy setup opportunity. Finally, Explosion lets Muk go out with a bang when it is almost down, taking most opponents down with it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Brick Break can be used to hit Steel-types and Rock-types that are immune to or resist Muk's STAB, namely Bastiodon, Carracosta and Probopass, as well as hitting Piloswine for super effective damage, but otherwise Ice Punch is better to nail Ground-types, especially Golurk. Seismitoad and Golurk are good teammates to beat common Rock- and Ground-types. Charizard is a good teammate for Muk because it can beat Metang and other Steel-types and provides a safe switch-in to Ground-type attacks, while both Pokemon can weaken walls for each other. Psychic-types like Musharna and Gothorita make for decent teammates as they can take on the Poison-types that Muk cannot break, such as Garbodor and Arbok, and offer support. Physical attackers such as Tauros and Kangaskhan appreciate this set's ability to lure in and weaken Alomomola with powerful hits and poison.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Sticky Hold is a decent option, but there aren't a lot of Trick users, much less those which can survive Muk's onslaught comfortably enough to even think about Tricking the Black Sludge onto something else; the extra poison chance is great against offensive teams, anyway. Destiny Bond is usable as it allows Muk to bring down an opponent it cannot otherwise beat, but Muk would much rather blow itself up than wait for the opponent to KO it and risk playing around Destiny Bond; it is also too slow to make use of it properly. ThunderPunch hits Alomomola harder than Poison Jab, but Poison Jab and poison damage does more damage over time and can't be passively healed off as easily, plus it's even more useless against Ground-types. Muk has some interesting special attacking options such as Giga Drain, Thunderbolt, and Flamethrower, but a low Special Attack stat makes them inferior, and even then Seviper and Weezing do this better. Dig's main purpose is to hit Poison-types, but giving them a free turn to do anything and switch out to a resist or Flying-type hardly makes this worthwhile.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Muk is a bit trickier to counter safely when you consider Poison Touch and its favorable matchup against most Psychic-types. Fellow Poison-types such as Garbodor, Scolipede (has to watch out for Fire Punch), Arbok, Weezing, Golbat, and even Skuntank can all take on Muk as the latter has no practical way of hurting its brethren and Poison Touch is ineffective against them; they can proceed to beat down and / or set up all over Muk or, in Weezing's case, cripple Muk with Will-O-Wisp. Not even Curse can help Muk much against them, as they can either use Clear Smog, Taunt, or boost alongside Muk and outdamage it with Earthquake. Steel-types such as Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon are in much the same boat due to their Poison immunity, though they have to confirm Muk's coverage move before getting comfortable. Ground-types like Seismitoad, Golurk, Torterra, and Piloswine all threaten with their STAB Ground-type attacks, though Golurk and Torterra have to watch out for Ice Punch. Rock-types such as Golem, Carracosta and Regirock do well too, taking little damage from most, if not all of Muk's attacks, though those that take longer to beat Muk are at a greater risk of Poison Touch poisoning them. Regirock and Metang aren't even affected by Memento due to Clear Body and also wall Muk, though Metang can be worn down with Fire Punch while Regirock can succumb to poison. Misdreavus takes little from Shadow Sneak and can burn Muk to cripple it, though it risks being poisoned by Poison Touch when attempting to do so. Musharna can tank non Choice Band-boosted hits and retaliate with its Psychic-type attacks.</p>
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  2. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    836
    Been using Muk a lot recently, and I don't really like Ice Punch. What does it actually hit? I guess Ground-types, but you shouldn't be staying in on them anyway and it doesn't OHKO any of them on the switch either. As for Flying-types, I'd really rather just Poison Jab to tounch them except Golbat who you aren't beating 1v1 anyway. I've found Fire Punch to be more useful since it hurts a lot of stuff you can't tounch (2HKOes Pede and 3HKOes Metang).
  3. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,509
    Ice Punch is mainly so Golurk can't waltz in on you, but Fire Punch does seem to be a viable option for getting rid of Tounch immune Pokemon that Muk struggles with.
  4. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,762
    I question the feasibility of Shadow Sneak on the Choice Band set. I used to use Muk a lot and Shadow Sneak was hardly ever used on my CB sets because it was just too... weak. I mean 40 BP attack, no STAB, not worth it.

    IMO send Shadow Sneak to 3rd slot and/or slash Fire Punch with it, but idk what QC thinks.
  5. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,598
    Shadow Sneak gives Muk the chance to pick off weakened Jynx without risking to get OHKO by Psychic or Psyshock, which if you ask me it extremely useful in a metagame where Jynx is seen everywhere (not really, but you get my point) and other Ghost-type like Haunter and Drifblim. Its also really useful to 'tounch' your opponent's faster Pokemon before Muk faints, while Ice Punch and Brick Break are mostly here for coverage. As for Fire Punch, it only really hit Metang since Brick Break takes care of the other Steel-types anyway, so it should stay in OO.

    EDIT: After thinking about it, I can see the use for Fire Punch, which doesn't make Muk hazards fodder with Scolipede and do decently against Metang, which is getting more popular lately alongside of Probopass for Steel-types, but Ice Punch let you get a good hit on Ground-types coming in. I still can't say if Fire Punch>Ice Punch or not, but I think it deserve an AC mention Dat Blast
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013
    Raseri likes this.
  6. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,609
    definitely keep Shadow Sneak. Taking out Jynx and Haunter (and Kadabra to a much lesser extent) is really handy in this metagame. And besides, priority is always good!
  7. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    836
    I still personally prefer Fire Punch over Ice Punch on the sets b/c of what I said in my first post. Though I'd rather get other QC's opinions first before you change it.
  8. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,509
    Yeah Fire Punch could definitely go in there to beat Pede and Metang, whereas Ice Punch is really only good for the switch or Mandibuzz. What does QC think?
  9. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,609
    Ice Punch also hits all the Ground-types which is handy. Hitting Golurk or Golem on the switch is a good way to bring a world of hurt :). I think they're both valid (and better than Brick Break) so I would support moving Brick Break to AC and slashing Fire Punch. I do think Ice Punch should stay first for hotting the pokemon #1 in usage hard, however.
    Soulgazer likes this.
  10. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,509
    Made the changes.
  11. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    836
    [Overview]
    • Try to shorten / split up this sentence. Don't explain how Poison Tou(n)ch works since it's already on the analysis. Just say how the added poison chance lets it support its teammates with chip damage. Though you can keep the bit about Ice Punch poisoning if you really want.
    [SET] (Touncher)
    • Fire Punch > Brick Break on this set too. Make sure to change up the SC accordingly.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Touncher)
    • On the mention of Haze, also note that Memento can also stop boosters to a certain extent.
    • Mention Wish support here. It's really useful to extend Muk's longevity and Alomomola / Audino have pretty good synergy with Muk too. Plus, they can abuse PSN with Wish + Protect.
    [SET COMMENTS] (CB)
    • Don't say how Muk's low Speed makes it look like it wouldn't make good use of CB, imo its stat spread is actually perfect for it. Just say how CB lets it hit hard and its Poison STAB can threaten Tangela / Mola.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • More of a GP thing, but on the mention of Zard say Muk weakens /special/ walls, not just walls.
    [Other Options]
    • When talking about D-Bond, also say Muk's too slow to use it.
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Remove Scolipede from the list of Poison-types since Fire Punch is a listed option now; either that or just specifically mention Pede needs to look out for Fire Punch.
    • Similarly, instead of saying how Probopass / Bastiodon need to watch out for Brick Break say that Metang needs to beware of Fire Punch.
    Implement pls Punchshroom :)
  12. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,509
    Made all changes except..
    Isn't Muk's high poisoning chance allowing it to weaken almost any wall (that can be poisoned)?
  13. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw shmebulock
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    836
    Yeah you've got a point, I guess I just didn't like how you said Zard wears down physical walls but Muk just wears down walls. I guess you could just change that sentence to say that they can wear down walls in general for each other.

    Also put Alomomola and Audino for partners b/c of what I said above, and consider this

    QC Approved 3/3
  14. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,509
    Made the changes.
  15. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    264
    gp check blue = additions, red = removals, green = comments
    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Muk is pretty solid as far as Poison-types go, especially one that can absorbs Toxic Spikes. Its solid Attack and Special Defense as well as good movepool allow Muk to tango with some of the most powerful (I assume this is what you're going for) special attackers of in the tier. It has a unique ability that which causes its contact moves to be capable of inducing Ppoison, which is not only great for inflicting chip damage on opponents, but it's also hilarious when your Ice Punch poisons someone. What sepearates Muk from other slow Poison-types is Shadow Sneak, which turns it into a good offensive check to Jynx as opposed to being easy pickings. However, Muk is slow and easy to wall as its coverage moves aren't quite strong enough to get the job done against bulkier opponents, and common weaknesses in Ground and Psychic hold it back. However, Muk still holds its own well in the metagame, and anything that poisons you while smacking you at the same time shouldn't be taken lightly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Touncher (what is this)
    move 1: Poison Jab
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Ice Punch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Memento / Curse
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Poison Touch
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    (remove extra line break)
    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Poison Jab is your main STAB and has a nice 30% chance to poison, while Poison Touch has a separate 30% chance to poison. To put it into perspective, that's a 60% (I believe it's multiplicative and not additive, it should be closer to...well, I'll get back to you on that, my head hurts too much to do math) chance to add a free 12% damage over time effect to your main move, and 30% for its other attacks, which is pretty cool no matter how you look at it. Shadow Sneak is Muk's priority and despite being pretty weak, it is important to hit Jynx, Haunter, and Kadabra which otherwise harass or threaten Muk. Ice Punch has great coverage, hitting Ground-types such as Golurk and Flying-types such as Mandibuzz and Golbat for decent damage. On the other hand, Fire Punch nails Metang and Scolipede, the latter of which can use Muk as easy Spikes fodder otherwise. The last move depends on what you want Muk to do: Memento helps a teammate to set up on the crippled opponent when Muk is running low on HP or has outlived its usefulness; Curse allows Muk to set up itself, using its good bulk and Toxic immunity to harass defensive teams and providing the power to break through.</p>

    (remove extra line break)
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Brick Break is an option to hit Probopass and Bastiodon, as well as hit Normal-types harder. A specially defensive spread with Curse is viable, but the lack of immediate power hurts its potential. Haze is cool in the last slot to stop boosters, though Muk is a tad bit slow for that, and competes with Memento which can function similiarly. Muk works very well with Mandibuzz because she it is immune to both of Muk's weaknesses and can defeat threats like such as Golurk, while Muk can attempt to tank attackers that would otherwise prove too much for Mandibuzz to handle, such as Ludicolo and Eelektross. Ground-types like such as Golurk and Seismitoad can defeat Regirock and other Rock-types that threaten Muk, as well as hitting Poison-(hyphen)types that wall Muk; Golurk can also hurt bulkier Psychic-types and Ghost-types like such as Musharna and Misdreavus. Sawk works well because it can take down Rocks- and Steels-types that can potentially wall Muk, while Muk returns the favor by poisoning walls so that they are more susceptible to Sawk's attacks. A lot of offensive Pokemon, such as Carracosta and Kangaskhan,(AC) work well with Muk because the extra poison damage it inflicts on walls like such as Piloswine and Misdreavus can be the difference between them getting a KO and not 2HKO. On the other hand, defensive Pokemon, more specifically those with Wish such as Audino and Alomomola, can keep Muk healthy and extend its longevity, while they can take advantage of poison by stalling with Wish + and Protect.</p>

    (remove extra line break)
    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Ice Punch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Explosion
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Poison Touch
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Band gives Muk extra power, especially when you consider its Poison-type STAB can threaten 2 two of the bulkiest physical walls in the tier: Tangela and Alomomola. Poison Jab is a reliable and accurate STAB and has a ridiculous poisoning chance (see next comment), but Gunk Shot can 2HKO Alomomola, especially if poison is taken into account, but at the cost of not having Poison Touch's benefit nor (not sure what benefit you're going for here, as they both have a 30% chance to poison) good accuracy. Shadow Sneak is for priority and can take out frail Psychic-types and Ghost-types, with its power being more pronounced thanks to Choice Band,(AC) such as nabbing the clean OHKO on Jynx. Ice Punch again is for hitting Ground-types and bulky Flying-types, though Gunk Shot does more damage against the majority of Flying-types. Fire Punch is an option to hit Scolipede and Metang, especially the former who which could otherwise use Muk as an easy set-(remove hyphen)up opportunity. Finally, Explosion lets you Muk go out with a bang when Muk it is almost down, taking most opponents down with you it.</p> (who's exploding? I hope it's not me)

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Brick Break can be used to hit Steel-types and Rock-types that are immune to or resist Muk's STAB, namely Bastiodon, Carracosta and Probopass, as well as hitting Piloswine for super effective damage, but otherwise Ice Punch is better to nail Ground-types, especially Golurk. Seismitoad and Golurk are good teammates to beat common Rock-(hyphen) and Ground-(hyphen)types. Charizard is a good teammate for Muk because it can beat Metang and other Steel-types and provides a Ground switchin safe switch-in to Ground-type attacks, while both Pokemon can weaken walls for each other. Psychic-types like such as Musharna and Gothorita make for decent teammates as they can take on the Poison-types that Muk cannot break, like such as Garbodor and Arbok, and offers support. Physical attackers such as Tauros and Kangaskhan appreciates this set's ability to lure in and weaken Alomomola with powerful hits and poison.</p>

    (remove extra line break)
    [Other Options]

    <p>Sticky Hold is a decent option, but there aren't a lot of Trick users, much less those which can survive Muk's onslaught comfortably enough to even think about Tricking the Black Sludge onto something else; the extra poison chance is great against offensive teams,(AC) anyway. Destiny Bond is usable as it allows Muk to bring down an opponent it cannot otherwise beat, but Muk would much rather blow itself up than wait for the opponent to KO it and risk playing around Destiny Bond; it is also too slow to make use of it properly. ThunderpPunch hits Alomomola harder than Poison Jab (this has to be specified since Gunk Shot actually hits harder, factoring in STAB: 120 *1.5 > 75 * 2), but Poison Jab + and poison damage does more damage over time and can't be passively healed off as easily, plus it's even more useless against Ground-types. Muk has some interesting special attacking options like such as Giga Drain, Thunderbolt, and Flamethrower, but low SpAtk a lot Special Attack stat makes them inferior, and even then Seviper and Weezing do this better. Dig's main purpose is to hit Poison-types, but giving them a free turn to do anything and switch out to a resist or Flying-type hardly makes this worthwhile.</p>

    (remove extra line break)
    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Muk is a bit trickier to counter safely when you consider Poison Touch and its favorable matchup against most Psychic-types. Fellow Poison-types like such as Garbodor, Scolipede (has to watch out for Fire Punch), Arbok, Weezing, Golbat,(AC) and even Skuntank basically have their way (is this the right way to word it -_-) with Muk as the latter has no practical way of hurting its brethren and Poison Touch is ineffective against them; they can proceed to beat down and/or set (space)up all over Muk or, in Weezing's case, cripple Muk with Will-oO-Wisp. Not even Curse can help Muk much against them, as they can either use Clear Smog, Taunt,(AC) or boost alongside Muk and outdamage it with Earthquake. Steel-types are in much the same boat due to their Poison immunity, such as Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon, though they have to confirm Muk's coverage move before getting comfortable. Ground-(hyphen)types like such as Seismitoad, Golurk, Torterra, and Piloswine all threaten with their STAB Ground-type attacks, though Golurk and Torterra have to watch out for Ice Punch. Rock-types like such as Golem, Carracosta,(AC) and Regirock do well too, taking little damage from most, if not all of Muk's attacks, though those that take longer to beat Muk are at a greater risk of Poison Touch poisoning them. Regirock and Metang cannot even be Memento'd hit by Memento due to Clear Body and also wall Muk, though Metang can be worn down with Fire Punch while Regirock can succumb to Ppoison. Misdreavus takes little from Shadow Sneak and can burn Muk to cripple it, though it risks being poisoned by Poison Touch when attempting to do so. Musharna can tank non CB -Choice Band-boosted hits and retaliate with its Psychic-type attacks.</p>



    1/2

    edit:
    asked v4, it's definitely multiplicative
    i think it's 39% but i might be a dumbass
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  16. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,509
    Made the changes bar the above.
  17. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    560
    Shouldn't you put something like 'Three Attacks' or ' Non-Choice Attacker' between parentheses of Touncher? I believe that's what was done with stuff like Ursaring's Guts set (named Village Crusher before the last update), etc. I'm not sure if it's changed, though.
  18. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,950
    It's not necessary, since if you ask anyone in the Neverused community what Touncher is, they'll tell you it's Muk. Crocune is another example of a nickname that isn't "descriptive" but is used as a set name.
    WhiteDMist, Soulgazer and Raseri like this.
  19. Aeron Ee1

    Aeron Ee1 Nom nom nom
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    743
    GP Check (open)


    Changes in bold

    Removals in red
    Comments in bold red

    [Overview]

    <p>Muk is pretty solid as far as Poison-types go, especially among the ones that can absorb Toxic Spikes. Its solid (ironic that you keep using solid to describe Muk xD) Attack and Special Defense as well as good movepool allow Muk to tango with some of the most powerful special attackers in the tier. It has a unique ability which causes its contact moves to be capable of inducing poison, which is not only great for inflicting chip damage on opponents, but it's also hilarious when your Ice Punch poisons someone. What separates Muk from other slow Poison-types is Shadow Sneak, which turns it into a good offensive check to Jynx as opposed to being easy pickings. However, Muk is slow and easy to wall as its coverage moves aren't quite strong enough to get the job done against bulkier opponents, and common weaknesses in Ground and Psychic hold it back. However, Muk still holds its own well in the NU metagame, and anything that can poison you while smacking you at the same time shouldn't be taken lightly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Touncher
    move 1: Poison Jab
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Ice Punch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Memento / Curse
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Poison Touch
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Poison Jab is your main STAB and has a nice 30% chance to poison, while Poison Touch stacks another 30% chance. To put it into perspective, that's a 51% chance to add a free 12% damage over time effect with your main move, and 30% chance for its other attacks, which is pretty cool no matter how you look at it. Shadow Sneak is Muk's priority and despite being pretty weak, it is important to hit Jynx, Haunter, and Kadabra which otherwise harass or threaten Muk. Ice Punch has great coverage, hitting Ground-types such as Golurk and Flying-types such as Mandibuzz and Golbat for decent damage. On the other hand, Fire Punch nails Metang and Scolipede, the latter of which can use Muk as easy Spikes fodder otherwise. The last move depends on what you want Muk to do: Memento helps a teammate to set up on the crippled opponent when Muk is running low on HP or has outlived its usefulness; Curse allows Muk to set up itself, using its good bulk and Toxic immunity to harass defensive teams and providing the power to break through.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Brick Break is an option to hit Probopass and Bastiodon, as well as hit Normal-types harder. A specially defensive spread with Curse is viable, but the lack of immediate power hurts its potential. Haze is cool in the last slot to stop boosters, though Muk is a tad bit slow for that, (RC) and competes with Memento which can already function similarly. Muk works very well with Mandibuzz because it is immune to both of Muk's weaknesses and can defeat threats like Golurk, while Muk can attempt to tank attackers that would prove too much for Mandibuzz to handle, such as Ludicolo and Eelektross. Ground-types such as Golurk and Seismitoad can defeat Regirock and other Rock-types that threaten Muk, as well as hitting Poison-types that wall Muk; Golurk can also hurt bulkier Psychic-types and Ghost-types such as Musharna and Misdreavus. Sawk works well because it can take down Rock- and Steel-types that can potentially wall Muk, while Muk returns the favor by poisoning walls so that they are more susceptible to Sawk's attacks. A lot of offensive Pokemon, such as Carracosta and Kangaskhan, work well with Muk because the extra poison damage it inflicts on walls such as Piloswine and Misdreavus can be the difference getting a KO and 2HKO. On the other hand, defensive Pokemon, more specifically those with Wish such as Audino and Alomomola, can keep Muk healthy and extend its longevity, while they can take advantage of poison by stalling with Wish and Protect.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Ice Punch / Fire Punch
    move 4: Explosion
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Poison Touch
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Band gives Muk extra power, especially when you consider its Poison-type STAB can threaten two of the bulkiest physical walls in the tier: Tangela and Alomomola. Poison Jab is reliable STAB and has a ridiculous chance to inflict poison, but Gunk Shot can 2HKO Alomomola, especially if poison is taken into account, but at the cost of not having Poison Touch's benefit nor good accuracy. Shadow Sneak is for priority and can take out frail Psychic-types and Ghost-types, with its power being more pronounced thanks to Choice Band, such as nabbing the clean OHKO on Jynx. Ice Punch again is for hitting Ground-types and bulky Flying-types, though Gunk Shot does more damage against the majority of Flying-types. Fire Punch is an option to hit Scolipede and Metang, especially the former which could otherwise use Muk as an easy setup opportunity. Finally, Explosion lets Muk go out with a bang when it is almost down, taking most opponents down with it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Brick Break can be used to hit Steel-types and Rock-types that are immune to or resist Muk's STAB, namely Bastiodon, Carracosta and Probopass, as well as hitting Piloswine for super effective damage, but otherwise Ice Punch is better to nail Ground-types, especially Golurk. Seismitoad and Golurk are good teammates to beat common Rock- and Ground-types. Charizard is a good teammate for Muk because it can beat Metang and other Steel-types and provides a safe switch-in to Ground-type attacks, while both Pokemon can weaken walls for each other. Psychic-types like Musharna and Gothorita make for decent teammates as they can take on the Poison-types that Muk cannot break, such as Garbodor and Arbok, and offer support. Physical attackers such as Tauros and Kangaskhan appreciate this set's ability to lure in and weaken Alomomola with powerful hits and poison.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Sticky Hold is a decent option, but there aren't a lot of Trick users, much less those which can survive Muk's onslaught comfortably enough to even think about Tricking the Black Sludge onto something else; the extra poison chance is great against offensive teams, anyway. Destiny Bond is usable as it allows Muk to bring down an opponent it cannot otherwise beat, but Muk would much rather blow itself up than wait for the opponent to KO it and risk playing around Destiny Bond; it is also too slow to make use of it properly. ThunderPunch hits Alomomola harder than Poison Jab, but Poison Jab and poison damage does more damage over time and can't be passively healed off as easily, plus it's even more useless against Ground-types. Muk has some interesting special attacking options such as Giga Drain, Thunderbolt, and Flamethrower, but a low Special Attack stat makes them inferior, and even then Seviper and Weezing do this better. Dig's main purpose is to hit Poison-types, but giving them a free turn to do anything and switch out to a resist or Flying-type hardly makes this worthwhile.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Muk is a bit trickier to counter safely when you consider Poison Touch and its favorable matchup against most Psychic-types. Fellow Poison-types such as Garbodor, Scolipede (has to watch out for Fire Punch), Arbok, Weezing, Golbat, and even Skuntank can all take on Muk as the latter has no practical way of hurting its brethren and Poison Touch is ineffective against them; they can proceed to beat down on and / or set up all over Muk or, in Weezing's case, cripple Muk with Will-O-Wisp. Not even Curse can help Muk much against them, as they can either use Clear Smog, Taunt, or boost alongside Muk and outdamage it with Earthquake. Steel-types such as Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon are in much the same boat due to their Poison immunity, such as Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon, though they have to confirm Muk's coverage move before getting comfortable. Ground-types like Seismitoad, Golurk, Torterra, and Piloswine all threaten with their STAB Ground-type attacks, though Golurk and Torterra have to watch out for Ice Punch. Rock-types such as Golem, Carracosta and Regirock do well too, taking little damage from most, if not all of Muk's attacks, though those that take longer to beat Muk are at a greater risk of Poison Touch poisoning them. Regirock and Metang aren't even affected by Memento due to Clear Body and also wall Muk, though Metang can be worn down with Fire Punch while Regirock can succumb to poison. Misdreavus takes little from Shadow Sneak and can burn Muk to cripple it, though it risks being poisoned by Poison Touch when attempting to do so. Musharna can tank non Choice Band-boosted hits and retaliate with its Psychic-type attacks.</p>

    Good write-up.

    [​IMG]

    GP 2/2
  20. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,509
    Done. Upload pls.
  21. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,609
    uploading

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)