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Munchlax (Gen 4, LC Analysis)'

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Seven Deadly Sins, Aug 20, 2009.

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  1. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Finally getting around to fixing up the Munchlax analysis.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/munchlax

    [SET]
    name: Special Tank
    move1: Return / Body Slam
    move2: Earthquake
    move3: Pursuit
    move4: Protect / Fire Punch / Ice Punch
    item: Oran Berry / Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 236 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Munchlax's high Special Defense lets it wall special opponents handily, threatening opponents like Gastly and Misdreavus with Pursuit. Return provides basic STAB, and is Munchlax's strongest attack. Body Slam is only slightly weaker, but it can paralyze threatening opponents that switch in, such as Aron and Gligar. Earthquake hits Rock- and Steel-types that resist Munchlax's STAB Return. Pursuit hits Ghost- and Psychic-types hard, which is one of the biggest reasons to use Munchlax in Little Cup. Item choice and fourth moveslot choice are up to preference. Item-wise, Oran Berry is the most effective, adding an effective +10 to its HP. Leftovers are usually inferior in Little Cup, but Munchlax's high HP stat lets it get 2 HP recovery per turn. Combine Leftovers with Protect for some pseudo-stalling and scouting. Fire Punch can be used to hit Bronzor, while Ice Punch can be used to hit Gligar if it causes trouble for your team.</p>

    <p>If your team needs more power, this Munchlax can be run with Attack EVs. Just remember that if you run Leftovers, 156 EVs are absolutely required for the 32 HP needed to reach 2 HP per turn recovery. Also, the less HP you run, the higher the chance of an untimely 2HKO from Misdreavus or Gastly's Hidden Power Fighting.</p>

    <p>There are a couple of notable Pokemon that work well with Munchlax. Any Ghost-type works well with Munchlax, as Ghosts are immune to the Fighting-type attacks which hit Munchlax for super effective damage. Gligar also makes a good teammate, as it has high Defense and a resistance to Fighting-type moves, while Munchlax switches in with ease on the Ice attacks that plague Gligar.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Choicelax
    move1: Return
    move2: Pursuit
    move3: Earthquake / Seed Bomb
    move4: Fire Punch
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Brave
    evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Munchlax with Choice Band is an extremely potent offensive threat. Bring it in on almost any special attacker, and then take advantage of its incredibly dangerous Return. A STAB Return off of 28 Attack is devastating in Little Cup, crushing almost everything that isn't immune or resistant to it. Alternately, bring it in on Gastly, Abra, or Misdreavus and Pursuit for the guaranteed kill. Earthquake covers the Rock/Ground and Rock/Steel Pokemon, which would normally cause trouble for Munchlax. Seed Bomb provides better coverage and prevents Pokemon with Levitate, such as Misdreavus, from coming in without risk. However, its decreased power versus Aron can be a liability. Fire Punch always scores a clean 2HKO against Bronzor, so it gets the last slot.</p>

    <p>Because of Munchlax's crippling weakness to Fighting-types, Ghost-types are still its preferred teammates. Gligar also works well, given that Munchlax is very effective at punching holes in opponents' physical defenses. Munchlax should also have a teamate to handle Ghost-type switch-ins. Houndour resists Ghost-type attacks and is immune to Will-O-Wisp, however uncommon it may be, making it the best choice. Take care that Houndour doesn't switch into HP Fighting, though. Stunky can switch into any Ghost-type nearly risk-free, though it risks being crippled by Will-O-Wisp from more defensively minded Ghost-types.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Munchlax is the kind of Pokemon that can fit into nearly any team, but it still needs support to reach its full potential. Munchlax has two main problems: its weakness to Fighting-type attacks and its middling Defense which allow Pokemon such as Machop, Mankey, and Croagunk to break this wall wide open. In light of this it is important to have a Pokemon who resists Fighting-type moves on any teams that include Munchlax. Ghost-types are the most reliable, as they are immune to Fighting, rendering them immune the confusion effect of Machop's DynamicPunch. Gligar is also effective, as it boasts very high Defense stat with which to take not only Fighting-type attacks, but also neutral attacks aimed at Munchlax. Slowpoke is also an effective teammate, as it is resistant to Fighting, has a solid Defense stat, and cannot be confused by DynamicPunch. Finally, Wynaut can be used to trap and eliminate Fighting-types using Counter and its ability, Shadow Tag.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Munchlax needs more support, as its inability to switch moves leaves it open to many large threats, such as Misdreavus and Machop. Fighting-types pose even more of a threat, as they are capable of switching in after a successful Pursuit and eliminating Munchlax. Once again, any of the above defenses against Fighting-types proves indispensable. On the offensive side, if Munchlax's teammates can rid the opposing team of Ghost-, Steel-, and Rock-types, Munchlax can use its powerful Return with maximum efficiency. Magnemite can be used to defeat Bronzor and other Steel-types which switch into Return with impunity. Houndour effectively deals with Ghost-types, though it is important to watch out for the Hidden Power Fighting that is commonly aimed at Munchlax. Stunky can do the same, though it needs to be more wary of Will-O-Wisp than Hidden Power Fighting. As for Rock-types, Fighting- and Ground-type Pokemon can switch into their STAB attacks and hit them with their own super effective STAB attacks. Any of the Rock/Ground type Pokemon can switch into Rock-type moves easily due to their high Defense, while Machop can do the same due to its decent Defense.</p>

    <p>Finally, Munchlax's bar none lowest speed in the metagame combined with excellent Attack and a solid movepool makes it an excellent candidate for use in Trick Room. Three Pokemon are particularly well suited for setting up Trick Room for Munchlax. First, there's Bronzor, whose solid 57/86 Defense makes it easy to switch in on physical attacks aimed at Munchlax. On top of that, Munchlax can easily switch in on Bronzor's only weakness, Fire. Second, Exeggcute works well for the same reasons as Bronzor. 60/80 physical defenses and a resistance to Fighting make it easy to switch Exeggcute in on things that threaten Munchlax. Meanwhile, Munchlax can use its ability, Thick Fat, to switch into the Fire- and Ice-type attacks that threaten Exeggcute. Finally, there's Duskull, whose Ghost typing, 20/90 physical defense, and access to Will-o-Wisp make it a solid switch for Munchlax. In return, Munchlax can switch in for free on Ghost attacks aimed at Duskull.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Munchlax has a sizeable movepool, filled with things to catch counters off-guard. Surf can be used to hit the lower Special Defenses of the Rock/Ground or Rock/Steel types, but loses against Rock/Waters. Substitute and Focus Punch can be used together, as Munchlax tends to force switches, which allow it to set up its huge 8 HP substitutes. However, Pursuit is often significantly more effective for punishing opposing switches. Finally, Curse can be utilized to boost Munchlax's above-average Attack and low Defense stats, but free turns are rare in Little Cup, and Munchlax is still fairly vulnerable to Fighting-types, even after the boost. Chople Berry can be used to surprise an opposing Fighting-type, but Munchlax loses significant bulk without Oran Berry's 10 HP boost, which leaves it open to some special threats.</p>

    <p>Munchlax also makes a great Pokemon to use with Trick Room support. If used in Trick Room, the Choice Band set can be used with Life Orb to provide a power boost and the ability to switch moves at the expense of bulk.</p>

    [EVs]

    <p>Munchlax is one of the few special walls in Little Cup, and as such, it should focus on its Special Defense first, and then either its Attack or HP. All sets will have at least 36 EVs left over, which can be placed in Defense to net an extra point. When using Leftovers, it is important to remember that at least 156 EVs must be placed into HP in order to reach 32 HP, which allows recovery of 2 HP per turn while holding Leftovers.</p>

    [Opinion]

    <p>Munchlax is an interesting Pokemon in Little Cup. Its 135 base HP combined with 85 base Special Defense makes it capable of dealing with opposing special attackers with ease. At the same time, it has a powerful 85 base Attack with which to assault targets, allowing it to take a simultaneously offensive and defensive role on most teams. A cornerstone to special walling, Munchlax is most teams' answer to vicious special attackers such as Misdreavus and Abra, and its very presence prevents special threats from running rampant in the metagame. At the same time, though, it is let down by mediocre physical defense and the lowest speed in the entire metagame. However, its usefulness is undeniable, and it's easy to see why despite its shortcomings, Munchlax is still one of the defining Pokemon in the Little Cup metagame.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>It's incredibly difficult to actually counter Munchlax because of the excellent power of its STAB Return. Ghost-types with Levitate are generally the most effective counters, but Pursuit, Seed Bomb, and Fire Punch are all threatening. Really, the only thing you can do is predict and pray. Don't switch Bronzor into Fire Punch, don't switch Ghost-types into things not named Return/Earthquake, don't switch Rock-types into Seed Bomb or Earthquake, and you should be fine.</p>

    <p>Revenge killing is slightly easier. Munchlax is dreadfully slow, and its physical defense is his only real weak point, so when you get the chance, hit it hard with the strongest physical attack that you can. Fighting-types like Mankey and Machop can easily demolish Munchlax. Really, just wear it down with repeated attacks. It's hard to keep it in on things that hit with any semblance of physical power.</p>
  2. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    Pretty well written, mainly some capitalization errors and you started a few sentences with Because, but otherwise it was good.
  3. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Thanks. I implemented most changes and reworded a couple others.
  4. TPM

    TPM

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    I think the EV section is misleading. Munchlax Evs are preety easy to toy around with. I prefer 156HP/156Atk/156SpD as opposed to anything else on the tank set, giving it good power and good defenses at the same time. For both sets maxing any two works fine; Hp/SpDef for optimal defenses (this is usable on choice set seeing as munchlax already has good attack), Atk/SpDef if you want to take special hits well but hit back strong, Atk/Hp for similar reasons only you wanna take all hits better.
    And shouldn't Fire Punch be slashed beside Protect? The sets I've seen with Fire Punch were always Return/EQ/Pursuit/FP.
  5. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Eh, that makes sense. I'll just make EVs "Any mix of HP, Attack, and Special Defense will work". Also, the last slot will be Protect / Fire Punch / Ice Punch.
  6. TPM

    TPM

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    Why isn't Bronzor mentioned it TO?
    The word MunchZor wasn't made up for no reason.
  7. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Because Bronzor fails to actually resist things that hurt Munchlax. It can't take Ghost attacks, it can't take Fighting attacks, etc. If you want to run the two of them in tandem, go ahead, but there are much better ways to work with Munchlax.

    I'll think about it, but it seems like Munchlax makes a much better ally for Bronzor than Bronzor makes for Munchlax.
  8. sbc

    sbc

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    Don't see much wrong in this.

    Change abbreviations.

    Perhaps mention Trick Room in team options, as Munchlax is obvious extremely strong under said conditions (and I'm assuming is why you have -Spe natures) and which TR users are best suited to be partnered with it.
  9. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Mmk, added Trick Room Support to both Team Options and Other Options. Also fixed the abbreviation issues.
  10. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Lax is one of the few things in LC that can somewhat viably use Stockpile, its not the easiest set to use but the results are sometimes impressive (and highly annoying). Rest lax is also workable with Chesto, but both are only OO worthy at best.

    FP does something to Bronzor, just about a 3KO. But as it will generally switch into something safe, Reflect before you hit it again (turning your 3KO into a 6KO) then do whatever it wants.. OO at best IMO. Protect is very handy for scouting choice users.

    Bronzor may not exactly be a counter, but it can switch in and set up screens/SR/whatever else it wants comfortably. Floon can come in on return/EQ and sleep you, same with W-o-W missy.

    Worth noting in opinion that unlike Blissey in OU a few special attackers can break through without boosting, for example LO Missy, Wailmer (especially specs), and almost all can beat it down if they grab a boost.
  11. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I think there should be a more offensive based "Standard" set that looks like this:

    name: Standard
    move1: Return
    move2: Earthquake
    move3: Pursuit
    move4: Fire Punch
    item: Oran Berry
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 Atk HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD

    This set has many advantages over the Tank set. Firstly, it can 2HKO Bronzor, which is a huge advantage to have due to Bronzor being one of the most common walls in this metagame, and giving it a turn to set up Stealth Rock, Trick Room, or use Hypnosis is never good. Secondly, it OHKOes Missy with Pursuit after SR, Life Orb and Substitute, while the Tank set can often (depending on damage rolls) get 3HKOed by HP Fighting, and not 2HKO Missy.

    Fire Punch (10 HP Added to Bronzor due to Oran):

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 18 Def & 35 HP (75 Base Power): 12 - 16 (34.29% - 45.71%)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 18 Def & 35 HP (75 Base Power): 10 - 14 (28.57% - 40.00%)

    Pursuit:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 10 Def & 22 HP (40 Base Power): 12 - 16 (54.55% - 72.73%)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 10 Def & 22 HP (40 Base Power): 10 - 12 (45.45% - 54.55%)

    EDIT: On top of that, I think the first set's description needs to explain how many turns Leftovers needs to be as effective more bluntly, so that it's in the readers face how long it is.
  12. TPM

    TPM

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    HeYsUp, I mentioned that SDS should change the EVs section to reflect that maxing any two of munchlax's better sets is good, so you don't need to add clone sets like that.
  13. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    The "Special Wall" and "Standard" set have two different roles though, one being a wall and one being a Bulky attacker. I personally don't see any reason to use the Special Wall, but if it must be kept then I do not see the harm in adding another set, or even merging it with the Choice Band set.
  14. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    The "special wall" is not a wall by any means.

    Redundant set, not adding it. It gets an EVs mention and nothing else.
  15. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    What are the direct benefits of having the HP EV maxed (other than for Leftovers) as opposed to Attack? I've listed a few of the absolutely major benefits that the Attack gives, while there are no arguments currently on the table for keeping the HP. Unless there are, I don't see the need for the "special wall" EV spread in the first place, making the other spread take its place.

    If you simply refuse, then at least list the benefits of the 236 Atk in the EVs section and Set Comments. (What Eric said below me)
  16. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    The spread Hey suggests has been very effective for me, but I don't think there is quite enough of a difference to merit a separate set, even though the difference between 33/15/x/11/19/x and 30/19/x/11/18/x does give it a quite different feel. A decent (read: more than a sentence or two) explanation in EVs/SC seems like the best way to go.
  17. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    There's an explanation now. It lowers the chance of a 2ko from HP Fighting coming off of opposing Misdreavus and Gastly. Really, that's all you're getting.
  18. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Is that really worth losing the 3HKO on Bronzor, or OHKO on Missy? I don't see how it is.

    Either way, I'm pretty sure me and eric both meant you needs to explain the benefits of using more attack if you aren't going to change the main EV Spread itself.
  19. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    It seems a bit unbalenced really, the extra 4 attack gives you a whole lot more power to work with (26% more to be precise), and make switchins considerably harder (I'm not going to do a whole load of calcs to add to HeY's right now, but can if you really want them). I'm not suggesting that max attack be the main spread but it is certainly not inferior in the way that these comments seem to suggest, or at least players could read them like that.
  20. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    [SET]

    name: Special Tank
    move1: Return
    move2: Earthquake
    move3: Pursuit
    move4: Protect / Fire Punch / Ice Punch
    item: Oran Berry / Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 236 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Munchlax can make use of its high Special Defense stat to wall the many Ghost- and Psychic-types in Little Cup. Unlike the Choice Band set, this one has healing and the ability to change moves. Return is there for a strong STAB attack, while Earthquake hits Rock- and Steel-types that resist Return. Pursuit hits Ghost- and Psychic-types hard, which is one of the biggest reasons to use Munchlax in Little Cup. Item choice and the fourth moveslot choice are up to preference. Item-wise, Oran Berry is the most effective, adding an effective +10 to its HP. Leftovers are usually inferior in Little Cup, but Munchlax's high HP stat lets it get 2 HP recovery per turn. Combine Leftovers with Protect for some pseudo-stalling and scouting. Fire Punch can be used to hit Bronzor, while Ice Punch can be used to hit Gligar if it causes trouble for your team.</p>

    <p>If you find Munchlax isn't hitting as hard as you like, you can remove some HP EVs and place them into Attack, however, if you run Leftovers 156 EVs are absolutely required as you will then gain 2 HP per turn.</p>

    <p>Most Ghost-types pair well with Munchlax due to their immunity to Fighting-type attacks, something which Munchlax cannot handle. Gligar also pairs well with Munchlax due to its high Defense stat and resistance to Fighting-type moves.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Choicelax
    move1: Return
    move2: Pursuit
    move3: Earthquake / Seed Bomb
    move4: Fire Punch
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Brave
    evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Munchlax with Choice Band is an absurdly powerful hitter right off the bat. Bring it into almost any special attacker, then throw out its incredibly dangerous Return. A STAB Return off of 28 Attack is devastating in Little Cup, crushing most everything that isn't immune or resistant to it. Alternately, bring Munchlax in on Gastly, Abra, or Misdreavus and then use Pursuit for a guaranteed kill. Earthquake covers the Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon, which would normally come in on Munchlax for with ease. Seed Bomb is an option over Earthquake if you want to hit Rock- and Ground-types without allowing levitating Pokemon such as Misdreavus in for free. Fire Punch always scores a clean 2HKO against Bronzor, so it gets the last slot.</p>

    <p>Like with the first set, Munchlax is deathly afraid of Fighting-types ruining its fun, so once again Ghost-type Pokemon work rather well with Munchlax. However, since Ghost-types are likely to come in on Return, having a quick answer for the is a good idea. Houndour, though also weak to Fighting-type attacks, can take down most Ghost-types with a STAB Dark-type move, though you should always be careful switching it in.</p>



    Just C/P that for the first two sets. I'll try to get team options and everything else done tomorrow.
  21. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    HUEG UPDATES WOO

    All it needs is a grammar check. I'll probably get in touch with Xia, Fuzznip, or Bojangles to check it.
  22. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I would just like to point out that Oran Missy has become quite popular, and it's pretty important to be able to 3HKO it, which you need maximum attack to do.

    EDIT: SDS wants me to just list some calcs, so I will.

    Fire Punch vs Oran Bronzor:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 18 Def & 35 HP (75 Base Power): 12 - 16 (34.29% - 45.71%) (3HKO, possible 2HKO)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 18 Def & 35 HP (75 Base Power): 10 - 14 (28.57% - 40.00%) (4HKO, possible 3HKO)

    Pursuit vs LO / Salac Missy:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 12 Def & 22 HP (40 Base Power): 10 - 14 (45.45% - 63.64%) (OHKO after Sub + SR + Life Orb on average)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 12 Def & 22 HP (40 Base Power): 10 - 12 (45.45% - 54.55%) (2HKO after Sub + SR + Life Orb on average)

    Pursuit vs Oran Missy:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 12 Def & 32 HP (40 Base Power): 10 - 14 (31.25% - 43.75%) (2HKO after Sub + SR on average)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 12 Def & 32 HP (40 Base Power): 10 - 12 (31.25% - 37.50%) (3HKO after Sub + SR on average)

    Pursuit vs Oran Drifloon:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 10 Def & 36 HP (40 Base Power): 12 - 16 (33.33% - 44.44%) (2HKO with SR)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 10 Def & 36 HP (40 Base Power): 10 - 12 (27.78% - 33.33%) (3HKO with SR)

    Return vs 28 HP Dratini:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 11 Def & 21 HP (102 Base Power): 19 - 24 (90.48% - 114.29%) (100% OHKO w. SR)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 11 Def & 21 HP (102 Base Power): 16 - 19 (76.19% - 90.48%) (2.56% OHKO with SR....so 2HKO)

    Return vs Oran Gligar:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 17 Def & 33 HP (102 Base Power): 13 - 16 (39.39% - 48.48%) (Chance to 2HKO)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 17 Def & 33 HP (102 Base Power): 10 - 13 (30.30% - 39.39%) (3HKO)

    Return vs Mantyke:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 12 Def & 21 HP (102 Base Power): 16 - 21 (76.19% - 100.00%) (100% OHKO with SR)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 12 Def & 21 HP (102 Base Power): 15 - 18 (71.43% - 85.71%) (50% OHKO with SR)

    Return vs Oran Porygon:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 14 Def & 36 HP (102 Base Power): 16 - 19 (44.44% - 52.78%) (2HKO with SR)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 14 Def & 36 HP (102 Base Power): 12 - 15 (33.33% - 41.67%) (3HKO, even with SR)

    Return vs Oran Krabby:

    236 Atk: 19 Atk vs 16 Def & 30 HP (102 Base Power): 13 - 16 (43.33% - 53.33%) (2HKO with SR)
    0 Atk: 15 Atk vs 16 Def & 30 HP (102 Base Power): 10 - 13 (33.33% - 43.33%) (3HKO with SR)

    The list goes on, but this should be enough to warrant a change.

    Without max Atk, you are basically useless at doing the job that Munchlax is used for. In addition to this, you are unable to OHKO Pokemon like Dratini with Return, meaning they can set up Dragon Dance in your face. Set up sweepers are quite popular since the HGSS changes, you need to be able to hit them legitimately hard so that can't set up.

    So I want to put this out there one more time: Max Atk > Max HP.
  23. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Except for the bit where Oran Misdreavus literally has a 0% chance to 3KO max HP Munchlax with its HP Fighting. Oh, and this.

    16 Atk vs 12 Def & 32 HP (40 Base Power): 10 - 12 (31.25% - 37.50%)

    That's a 100% chance of 3KO with SR.
  24. Namso

    Namso
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    Remove;
    Add;
    Comments.

    Special Tank (open)

    [SET]
    name: Special Tank
    move1: Return / Body Slam
    move2: Earthquake
    move3: Pursuit
    move4: Protect / Fire Punch / Ice Punch
    item: Oran Berry / Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 236 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Munchlax's high Special Defense lets it wall special opponents handily, threatening opponents Pokemon (you already said opponents previously, so use a different word) like Gastly and Misdreavus with Pursuit. Return provides basic STAB, and is Munchlax's strongest attack. Body Slam is only slightly weaker, but it can paralyze threatening opponents that switch in, such as Aron and Gligar. Earthquake hits Rock- and Steel-types that resist Munchlax's STAB Return attacks (not only Return, there's Body Slam). Pursuit hits Ghost- and Psychic-types hard, which is one of the biggest reasons to use Munchlax in Little Cup. Item choice and fourth moveslot choice are up to preference. Item-wise, Oran Berry is the most effective, adding an effective a very helpful +10 to its HP (already said effective). Leftovers are usually inferior in Little Cup, but Munchlax's high HP stat lets it get 2 HP recovery per turn. Combine Leftovers with Protect for some pseudo-stalling and scouting. Fire Punch can be used to hit Bronzor, while Ice Punch can be used to hit Gligar if it causes trouble for your team.</p>

    I think you should mention item choice last, and move choice first. You are talking about Munchlax's moveset, so finish talking about that before moving on to a different point.

    <p>If your team needs more power, this Munchlax can be run with Attack EVs. Just remember that if you run Leftovers, 156 EVs are absolutely required for the 32 HP needed to reach 2 HP per turn recovery. Also, the less HP you run, the higher the chance of an untimely 2HKO from Misdreavus or Gastly's Hidden Power Fighting if Leftovers is used.</p>

    <p>There are a couple of notable Pokemon that work well with Munchlax. Any Ghost-type works well with Munchlax, as Ghosts are immune to the Fighting-type attacks which hit Munchlax for super effective damage. Gligar also makes a good teammate, as it has high Defense and a resistance to Fighting-type moves, while Munchlax switches in with ease on the Ice attacks that plague Gligar.</p>

    Perhaps you can mention some Pokemon that are really effective when Ghost-types like Misdreavus and Gastly are out of the way? For example, Mankey and Croagunk will have an easier time to hit things and not be threatened by Will-O-Wisp. Speaking of Will-O-Wisp, Misdreavus loves to burn Munchlax, so by packing Ponyta or Houndour to gain a Flash Fire boost (possibly mention Scarfed versions), that could work to.


    Choicelax (open)

    [SET]
    name: Choicelax
    move1: Return
    move2: Pursuit
    move3: Earthquake / Seed Bomb
    move4: Fire Punch
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Brave
    evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Munchlax with Choice Band is an extremely potent offensive threat. Bring it in on almost any special attacker, and then take advantage of its incredibly dangerous Return. A STAB Return off of 28 Attack is devastating in Little Cup, crushing almost everything that isn't immune or resistant to it. Alternately, bring it in on Gastly, Abra, or Misdreavus and Pursuit for the guaranteed kill. Earthquake covers the Rock/Ground and Rock/Steel Pokemon, which would normally cause trouble for Munchlax. Seed Bomb provides better coverage and prevents Pokemon with Levitate, such as Misdreavus, from coming in without the risk of taking damage. However, its decreased power versus Aron can be a liability (you could also say the decreased power in general, since 100 BP is better than 80 BP). Fire Punch always scores a clean 2HKO against Bronzor, so it gets the last slot.</p>

    <p>Because of Munchlax's crippling weakness to Fighting-types, Ghost-types are still its preferred teammates. Gligar also works well, given that Munchlax is very effective at punching holes in opponents' physical defenses (I don't understand that sentence, isn't Gligar effective at punching holes in opponents' physical defenses as well?). Munchlax should also have a teamate to handle Ghost-type switch-ins, as they can score an opportunity to switch in when Munchlax uses Return. Houndour resists Ghost-type attacks and is immune to Will-O-Wisp, however uncommon it may be, making it the best choice. Take care that Houndour doesn't switch into HP Fighting, though. Stunky can switch into any Ghost-type nearly risk-free, though it risks being crippled by Will-O-Wisp from more defensively minded Ghost-types, as well as the rare Hidden Power Ground.</p>


    Team Options (open)

    [Team Options]

    <p>Munchlax is the kind of Pokemon that can fit into nearly any team, but it still needs support to reach its full potential. Munchlax has two main problems: its weakness to Fighting-type attacks and its middling Defense which allow Pokemon such as Machop, Mankey, and Croagunk to break this wall wide open (even if Munchlax has higher Defense, it will be broken wide open by those threats you mentioned. Mention other strong physical attackers, like Gligar, Krabby, and Snover for example). In light of this, it is important to have a Pokemon who resists Fighting-type moves on any teams that include Munchlax. Ghost-types are the most reliable, as they are immune to Fighting, rendering them immune the confusion effect of Machop's DynamicPunch (make a mention of Will-O-Wisp here, especially from Duskull/Misdreavus. Duskull + Munchlax is also a pretty sturdy combo). Gligar is also effective, as it boasts a very high Defense stat with which to take not only Fighting-type attacks, but also neutral attacks aimed at Munchlax. Slowpoke is also an effective teammate, as it is resistant to Fighting, has a solid Defense and HP stats, and cannot be confused by DynamicPunch, thanks to Own Tempo. Finally, Wynaut can be used to trap and eliminate Fighting-types by using Counter and its ability, Shadow Tag.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Munchlax needs more support, as its inability to switch moves leaves it open to many large threats, such as Misdreavus and Machop. Fighting-types pose even more of a threat, as they are capable of switching in after a successful Pursuit and eliminating Munchlax right after. Once again, any of the above defenses previously mentioned Pokemon against to deal with Fighting-types proves indispensable. On the offensive side, if Munchlax's teammates can rid the opposing team of Ghost-, Steel-, and Rock-types, Munchlax can use its powerful Return with maximum efficiency. Magnemite can be used to defeat Bronzor and other Steel-types which switch into Return with impunity. Houndour effectively deals with Ghost-types, though it is important to watch out for the Hidden Power Fighting that is commonly aimed at Munchlax. Stunky can do the same, though it needs to be more wary of Will-O-Wisp than Hidden Power Fighting. As for Rock-types, Fighting- and Ground-type Pokemon can switch into their STAB attacks and hit them with their own super effective STAB attacks. Any of the Rock/Ground-type Pokemon can switch into Rock-type moves easily due to their high Defense, while Machop can do the same due to its decent Defense.</p>

    <p>Finally, Munchlax's bar none lowest Speed in the metagame combined with excellent Attack and a solid movepool makes it an excellent candidate for use in Trick Room. Three Pokemon are particularly well suited for setting up Trick Room for Munchlax. First, there's Bronzor, whose solid 57/86 Defense makes it easy to switch in on physical attacks aimed at Munchlax. On top of that, Munchlax can easily switch in on Bronzor's only weakness, Fire. Second, Exeggcute works well for the same reasons as Bronzor. 60/80 physical defenses and a resistance to Fighting make it easy to switch Exeggcute in on things that threaten Munchlax. Meanwhile, Munchlax can use its ability, Thick Fat, to switch into the Fire- and Ice-type attacks that threaten Exeggcute. Finally, there's Duskull, whose Ghost typing, 20/90 physical defense, and access to Will-o-Wisp make it a solid switch for Munchlax's weaknesses. In return, Munchlax can switch in for free on Ghost attacks aimed at Duskull.</p>


    Other Options (open)

    [Other Options]

    <p>Munchlax has a sizeable movepool, filled with things to catch counters off-guard. Surf can be used to hit the lower Special Defenses of the Rock/Ground or Rock/Steel types, but loses against Rock/Waters. Substitute and Focus Punch can be used together, as Munchlax tends to force switches, which allows it to set up its huge 8 HP substitutes. However, Pursuit is often significantly more effective for punishing opposing switches (not really). Finally, Curse can be utilized to boost Munchlax's above-average Attack and low Defense stats, but free turns are rare in Little Cup, and Munchlax is still fairly vulnerable to Fighting-types, even after the boost. Chople Berry can be used to surprise an opposing Fighting-type, but Munchlax loses significant bulk without Oran Berry's 10 HP boost, which leaves it open to some special threats (leaves it open to anything, really).</p>

    <p>Munchlax also makes a great Pokemon to use with Trick Room support. If used in Trick Room, the Choice Band set can be used with Life Orb to provide a power boost and the ability to switch moves at the expense of bulk.</p>


    Opinion (open)

    [Opinion]

    <p>Munchlax is an interesting Pokemon in Little Cup. Its 135 base HP combined with 85 base Special Defense makes it capable of dealing with opposing special attackers with ease. At the same time, it has a powerful 85 base Attack with which to assault targets, allowing it to take a simultaneously offensive and defensive role on most teams. A cornerstone to special walling, Munchlax is most teams' answer to vicious special attackers, such as Misdreavus and Abra, and its very presence prevents special threats from running rampant in the metagame. At the same time, though, it is let down by its mediocre physical defense and the lowest speed in the entire metagame. However, its usefulness is undeniable, and it's easy to see why despite its shortcomings, Munchlax is still one of the defining Pokemon in the Little Cup metagame.</p>


    Counters (open)

    [Counters]

    <p>It's incredibly difficult to actually counter Munchlax because of the excellent power of its STAB Return. Ghost-types with Levitate are generally the most effective counters, but Pursuit, Seed Bomb, and Fire Punch are all threatening. Really, the only thing you can do is predict and pray. Don't switch Bronzor into Fire Punch, don't switch Ghost-types into things not named Return/Earthquake, don't switch Rock-types into Seed Bomb or Earthquake, and you should be fine.</p>

    <p>Revenge killing is slightly easier. Munchlax is dreadfully slow, and its physical defense is his its only real weak point, so when you get the chance, hit it hard with the strongest physical attack that you can. Fighting-types like Mankey and Machop can easily demolish Munchlax. Really, just wear it down with repeated attacks. It's hard to keep it in on things that hit with any semblance of physical power.</p>

    Mention Will-O-Wisp users, especially Duskull, and mention Wynaut.
  25. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    If the egg rule is removed Selfdistruct needs a decent mention, probably a slash over Pursuit. The only important thing it's illegal with is Pursuit, most of Munchy's competitive moves are TMs or Tutors.

    Its worth noting that Pursuit is only 6% stronger than Ice/Fire Punch against a non switching ghost, so you're not exactly helpless there. Just lose the ability to psudo trap them in exchange for the ability to blow pretty much anything out of the game.

    Needs Double-Edge as an OO mention, mainly for the TR set. D-E and LO together give you enough power to grab quite a few KOs that would otherwise be unreachable and assures many more, for example:
    (all assume max+ attack)
    LO Return vs max/36 Munchlax: 75.76% - 90.91% (2.56% chance to OHKO with SR)
    LO Double-Edge vs max/36 Munchlax: 84.85% - 103.03% (87.17% chance to OHKO with SR)
    LO Return vs 36/36 Machop: 91.67% - 112.5%
    LO Double-Edge vs 36/36 Machop:112.5% - 137.5%
    LO Return vs min/min Porygon: 82.61% - 104.35% (2.56% chance to OHKO.)
    LO Double-Edge vs min/min Porygon: 108.7% - 130.43%
    LO Return vs Wynaut: 65.52% - 82.76%
    LO Double-Edge vs Wynaut: 82.76% - 96.55% (33.33% chance to OHKO with SR)
    LO Return vs 36/76 Wailmer: 83.33% - 100% (2.56% chance to OHKO, 66.66% chance with SR)
    LO Double-Edge vs 36/76 Wailmer: 93.33% - 113.33% (87.17% chance to OHKO, 100% chance to OHKO with SR)

    Consider adding the TR sweeper as an extra set. Something like:
    name: TR Sweeper
    move1: Double-Edge
    move2: Seed Bomb / Earthquake
    move3: Pursuit / Selfdistruct
    move4: Fire Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Brave
    evs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD

    Maybe mentioning Oran/Return in SC.

    Counter needs an OO mention at the very least. Stockpile seems almost as useful as Curse, which is in OO so maybe that could get a mention too.
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