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Munchlax (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by ScraftyIsTheBest, May 30, 2013.

  1. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest lovin'
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    Least used drop, but here we go with this fat bear.

    [​IMG]

    I'm fat and bulky

    [Overview]

    <p>Munchlax has great special bulk with Eviolite, allowing it to take hits from many special attackers in the tier. Thick Fat is also a great ability that patches up Munchlax's lack of resistances. In addition, it can take on both Charizard and Jynx, two of the most prominent special threats in NU. Munchlax also has a usable base Attack along with a decent offensive movepool, which means it can be somewhat threatening to opposing Pokemon. However, Munchlax must rely on RestTalk for recovery, and with the fifth generation sleep mechanics, this can often lead to Munchlax being dead weight without cleric support. Munchlax also has a weakness to Fighting-type moves, which can make it bait for threats such as Sawk and Primeape. While its base Attack is decent, it is also not always going to deal sufficient damage. Lastly, Munchlax is the slowest Pokemon in NU, which means it will always have to take damage in order to deal some back.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Body Slam
    move 4: Whirlwind
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 136 HP / 120 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With great bulk from Eviolite, Munchlax makes for a very solid special wall capable of walling the majority of special attackers in the tier. Thick Fat also makes Munchlax one of the best answers to Charizard and Jynx and allows it to stand out from its main competition, Lickilicky. This set is excellent on stall teams, but it is usually a hindrance on other kinds of teams due to it often causing its team to lose momentum. Rest serves as Munchlax's sole form of recovery, and while it is often a poor form of recovery with the sleep counter being reset upon switching, Munchlax has enough bulk to survive until it awakens most of the time. Sleep Talk is useful, as it allows Munchlax to accomplish something while asleep, and along with Thick Fat, makes Munchlax an excellent Jynx counter. Body Slam is used for a decently powerful STAB move that can also spread paralysis, which is useful against faster teams. Whirlwind prevents Munchlax from becoming setup fodder and also racks up entry hazard damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Munchlax enough special bulk to take repeated Focus Blasts from Jynx after Stealth Rock, while also giving it enough physical bulk to withstand Psyshock. Munchlax's high HP stat makes maximum investment unnecessary. A Careful nature and Eviolite are chosen to further enhance Munchlax's special bulk. Return is a usable option over Body Slam because, although the power difference is not significant, its lack of a paralysis chance can be useful, as fully defensive teams might prefer to spread poison and burn instead.</p>

    <p>Entry hazard support is advisable for Whirlwind to be utilized to its full effect; Garbodor, Roselia, and Scolipede are all ideal choices for this. Munchlax appreciates Heal Bell support in the event that it gets forced out of the battle while asleep; Misdreavus and Musharna are both excellent choices, and both have great synergy with Munchlax. The former is also very useful to spinblock the entry hazards that Munchlax appreciates so much. Alomomola is a great teammate for Munchlax as well, as it is able to pass massive Wishes for it and also wall physical attackers. Mandibuzz can also be useful as a secondary wall that can also phaze. Finally, Munchlax appreciates Rapid Spin support from Wartortle and Torkoal to prevent it from being worn down easily. Do keep in mind that Rapid Spin support is not required and generally support from Wish is enough to counteract the damage from entry hazards.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Tank
    move 1: Body Slam / Return
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Pursuit
    move 4: Toxic / Sleep Talk / Curse
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 120 Def / 136 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes on a more offensive approach with Munchlax and aims to not only take hits but also hit decently hard in return. This variant of Munchlax fits on more offensive teams that are looking for Munchlax's unique defensive qualities, but do not want to lose momentum with the standard RestTalk set. Body Slam serves as a strong and reliable STAB move, and the paralysis chance can be especially helpful for slower teams. Return, however, packs more power at the cost of the paralysis chance. Earthquake serves as a great coverage move, hitting Golem and Bastiodon for good damage. Pursuit is a useful move as Munchlax can trap Jynx with it and also take any attack from it with Thick Fat and solid special bulk. The last moveslot all depends on what role you need fulfilled. Toxic wears down bulkier targets such as Tangela and Alomomola, making them easier to deal with later on. Sleep Talk, however, allows Munchlax to absorb Lovely Kiss from Jynx. Curse is a great boosting move to increase Munchlax's usable Attack stat to formidable levels, while giving it great physical bulk as well.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Munchlax all of the power needed for it to be effective, while also giving it enough special bulk to withstand two Life Orb Hydro Pumps from Samurott, even after Stealth Rock. An Adamant nature is chosen to further enhance Munchlax's Attack, and Thick Fat allows it to endure hits from Charizard and Jynx. Garbodor and Scolipede can endure Fighting-type moves for Munchlax and can also provide entry hazard support. Misdreavus and Musharna can make a good core with Munchlax and can also heal status with Heal Bell. Primeape is also a great teammate to remove Pokemon such as Probopass and attract Psychic-types to use U-turn on and send Munchlax in. Finally, Alomomola can pass Wishes to Munchlax to keep it healthy so that it can repeatedly check special threats.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There aren't many viable options for Munchlax to consider aside from the ones listed. The elemental punches can be used as coverage options, but they don't provide much aside from Ice Punch being able to maim Golurk. Zen Headbutt can be useful to pummel incoming Gurdurr and Sawk but has little utility otherwise. Munchlax has other offensive options such as Rock Slide, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, and Last Resort, but it can't put any of these to good use. Amnesia and Defense Curl could be used to raise Munchlax's defensive stats; however, these are more often than not a waste of a moveslot. Finally, Munchlax can use Counter to absorb physical hits and hit back hard with its high HP stat.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Fighting-types such as Gurdurr, Primeape, and Sawk make great answers to Munchlax, as they are able to remove it quickly and Gurdurr also has enough bulk to take anything that Munchlax has to offer. Golurk can also take most of what Munchlax has to offer and retaliate for heavy damage. Trick users, such as Rotom-S, can remove Munchlax's Eviolite to make it much less of a threat. Because Munchlax has a middling Defense stat even with Eviolite, strong physical attackers such as Carracosta can deal heavy amounts of damage to it. Finally, wearing down Munchlax with constant entry hazard pressure will weaken it to the point where it cannot check any special threats.</p>
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2013
  2. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    Munchlax (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 136 Def / 120 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Earthquake
    - Pursuit
    - Toxic / Sleep Talk / Curse

    I'd like to see some discussion about this set FLCL posted back in April. It's a different approach to Munchlax that might work. My experience with munchy is very limited so I can't really comment on it. Also no RU mentions in the overview, and make sure you follow the outlined standards!
  3. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    I'm bumping this for checks.
  4. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    have you or anyone else tested the offensive set? ive never actually used munchy but:

    -that set looks pretty ok for such a mediocre mon

    -the overview already looks way to big even in skeleton form, cut out the fluff so i dont have to yell at you when you eventually write this
  5. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    in overview, add: so slow it won't always outspeed prays it paralyzes with b slam.

    in oo, you can put all 3 elemental punches in one point since they're all pretty bad on munchlax, not worth spending too much time explaining.

    For cc, add hazards will often completely demolish anything that relies on rest to heal up, munchlax being no excpetion.

    As razzles, I've never actually used it but the offensive set does look better than this one who is a complete hazard magnet, and can't do shit to ghosts. I'll wait to see what others have to say.
  6. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    After a bit of thought, I'm almost tempted to QC reject this analysis. It was decided on a long time ago that only fully evolved Pokemon were guaranteed NU analyses, and only NFEs with a good niche in the metagame would get analyses. Regardless of the fact Munchlax was RU for a long time, it was barely in the top 100 in NU last month, and it's pretty much outclassed by Audino and Lickilicky. None of the players I've asked in #neverused have used Munchlax much, and don't have any idea on the sets. I really have no idea how to handle this unless someone comes forward with legit playtesting experience.
  7. Hollywood

    Hollywood walking in a straight line, that's not really her style
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    This is the main reason why I haven't QCed this. I haven't used it, and I really don't care to because the only niches it has over Audino are Whirlwind and Thick Fat while the only niche it has over Lickilicky Thick Fat (since Lickilicky has Dragon Tail). I hate to force a Pokemon that was RU for so long out of an analysis, but it's seriously mediocre.
  8. Hollywood

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    It's been a long time since this has been touched, but I'm going to go ahead and QC Reject an analysis for now. If other QC members thinks it deserves one, then we can go ahead with it. I just don't really think I'd ever want to use Munchlax because of its lack of reliable recovery, lack of Leftovers, horrid Speed, and its overall inability to really support its team.

    QC Reject 1/3
  9. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    munchlax definitely deserves an analysis. I still want to see the more offensive set in there other than the whirlwind one which is bad.
  10. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    I went ahead and dumped the RestTalk set in favor of the Offensive tank set, I've used the tank set to good success a couple of times. Anyways, ready.
  11. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    lol you said not much for OO and listed 10 things :)
    I'd mention that Pursuit can trap Jynx too

    Also add some more teammates for munchy, Musharna can tank physical hits easily while Munchy can tank special hits that can overwhelm her.
    Don't mention Spikes without mentioning what kills it gets.
    A few more teammates would be nice, I think Primeape deserves a mention too, because it can u-turn on ghost and psychic switchins and go to Munchers which is pretty cool.

    After all this I'm fine with approving this :)
  12. Hollywood

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    Yeah if the offensive set works, let's get it!
    I guess my reject was more for RestTalk :)
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  13. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Implemented those changes. Thanks, should be ready for QC now.
  14. Hollywood

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    [SET]
    • I think I'd rather see Body Slam over Return, unless Return gets some useful KOs that I'm unaware of. It's almost as strong anyways with the useful chance of paralysis. If not slashed, it should be at least AC instead of OO.
    • I asked FLCL, and the EV spread is actually supposed to be 252 Atk / 120 Def / 136 SpD, and it's to survive two LO Hydro Pumps from Samurott after Stealth Rock, so go ahead and change that and add the bit about Samurott to the AC. Sorry for the miscommunication there!
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • When you mention Primeape's ability to U-turn out of Ghosts and Psychics for Munchlax to handle, specifically mention that it Pursuit traps them
    [Other Options]
    • When you mention the RestTalk Whirlwind set, make sure and say why it's not very good—pretty much everything in my QC Reject post about it
    • Curse is slashed now, so you can remove it
    • Condense elemental punches
    • Like I said under [SET] I would like to see Body Slam either on the set or in AC, so cut that from here too
    This is really good. Most of my stuff is either nitpicky or stuff you had no other way of knowing. Glad we have you writing this one!

    QC 1/3
  15. Namso

    Namso formerly Fuzznip
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    What's so bad about RestTalk Munchlax? I'm talking about Rest/Sleep Talk/Body Slam/Whirlwind¦Curse. It's a really good special wall and checks things like Charizard, Ampharos, and Jynx really well. With Whirlwind it becomes a very decent phazer and Body Slam does what it always does. Curse is more AC material due to mono Normal and the rampant Ghosts, but with proper team support it really isn't bad. Possible partners include Aromatherapy Meganium (who also gets Dragon Tail, making the two a nice phazing core), Alomomola, and entry hazard supporters.

    The thing between Lickilicky and Munchlax is that Lickilicky's Dragon Tail is weak such that almost any Pokemon, be it Charizard, Misdreavus, Mandibuzz, and Exeggutor with Substitute avoids the phaze and continue to set up. Munchlax is a better phazor in some cases. Also, Thick Fat is a huge help that can't be overlooked so quickly. Fire and Ice are everywhere in NU. It takes Focus Blasts better than Lickilicky and Audino too.

    I mean, all of Munchlax, Audino, and Lickilicky have their pros and cons. Munchlax definitely deserves its own analysis because it is a potent special wall despite the lack of Leftovers recovery and relying on Rest.

    In terms of the offensive set, I don't know why one would use that over powerhouses like Tauros, Khangaskhan, and even Miltank. I haven't used it nor seen it so I can't really judge its effectiveness but just by comparing Munchlax with the aforementioned Pokemon, it doesn't make sense to use this. What does it accomplish that the others can't do?
  16. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    Ya make body slam the choice over return, I'll respond to fuzznip when I'm not on my phone
  17. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    FLCL, Annoyer, and I agree that the Offensive set is very lackluster. It's really weak and the only thing it really has going for it is Pursuit trapping Jynx (which tbh Metang and Tauros with Pursuit do better as they're capable of doing other things well) It can also be a check to Zard and other random special attackers, but it's not as bulky without full investment and switching out to something that beats it isn't hard either. I don't really like Munchlax in general, (I would give Curse a shot if it got Crunch, but it doesn't) but I do agree with Fuzznip that RestTalk isn't all that bad. Munchlax has good synergy with common Heal Bell Pokemon such as Misdreavus and Musharna. While it can't Wish like Lickilicky, it makes up for it by walling more special threats and having a better phazing move. Not to mention Lickilicky is not a good a Wish user as Alomomola, who would also make a good partner on stall based teams.

    So basically I think RestTalk should be the first set and Offensive as either the 2nd set or only mentioned in OO.
  18. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Yeah I added the RestTalk set back in, I agree it's viable (Munchlax is a staple on my stall team so I can easily back up the claims here)
  19. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    2/3 this is good to go
  20. Magcargo

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    This should be removed since the Restalk set is already on the analysis.
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  21. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    K thanks Raseri for the check, I'll get this written up ASAP
  22. DTC

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    yo sorry for being late

    -mention in overview that it beats charizard and jynx in one slot which is a super valuable niche to have

    -should talk about resttalk munchlax being a fantastic pokemon to put on stall teams, but underwhelming anywhere else because it kind of needs heal bell + hazard control + wish and lacks offensive presence

    -i'd put return in ac of resttalk. i'm not sure if it gets any significant damage boosts but the point is the paralysis it inflicts can conflict with toxic / toxic spikes, and stall teams generally prefer to poison pokemon rather than paralyze them

    :toast:
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  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    This is now written and awaiting 3rd QC approval
  24. ebeast

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    Really late but I would like Munchlax EVs on the RestTalk set to be changed to: 136 HP / 120 Def / 252 SpD Careful. This EV spread compared to the current 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD spread lets Munchlax take on LO Jynx better. Focus Blast is now only has a 6% chance of 2HKOing Munchlax after SR compared to the old spread's 71% chance. It still takes Psyshock variants well enough with it; Psyshock having a 3% chance of 2HKOing after SR. The extra cushion against special attacks that the HP investment provides is also more beneficial than the extra Defense as Munchlax is special wall.

    252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Focus Blast vs. 136 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 169-200 (37.97 - 44.94%) -- 6.64% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 169-200 (41.01 - 48.54%) -- 71.09% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Psyshock vs. 136 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 168-199 (37.75 - 44.71%) -- 3.13% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 138-164 (33.49 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    Note that the Focus Blast calc is more relevant as Psyshock is not a common on LO Jynx as Psychic.
  25. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    I have changed the EV spread, ready for checks.

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