Munchlax (Skeleton) (QC: 3/3)

#1



[Overview]
  • Munchlax is considered to be the the best special wall in the RU metagame, few things can actually dent it
  • Munchlax's defense is pretty good, not amazing though
  • Whirlwind allows it to phase out many threats
  • Curse can "sweep" unprepared teams
  • Thick fat allows it to take hits even better
  • Unfortunanly, it has no recovery outside of rest
  • Rather average defenses, with a normal typing, leaves it very vunerable to fighting types
  • Lowest speed in the metagame, which may be a problem
  • Munchlax has a rather low base 85 attack
[SET]

name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Body Slam
move 4: Whirlwind
item: Eviolite
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Careful
EVs: 136 HP / 124 Def / 248 SpD


[SET COMMENTS]
  • a great special phaser, just switch into almost any special hit and whirlwind it out, can put a full stop to most special threats
  • rest for recovery and to heal from status
  • sleep talk to do stuff and prevent it from becoming fodder, with you throwing around body slam and whirlwind
  • Body slam threatens any pokmon that switch in, plus its solid stab move
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • The evs make sure muchlax takes physical hits well, while still providing good special bulk. In specific the exact evs prevent a 2HKO from focus blast from an Alakazam
  • A more specially bulky spread of 252 HP / 252 SpD is fine, as the main purpose of the set is to sponge special attacks
  • If your not so worried about taking strong special hits a spread of 104 HP / 224 Def / 180 SpDef is fine, it allows you to take 2 crunches from Sharpedo, while still keeping acceptable special bulk
  • A more bulky spread of 124 HP / 248 Def / 136 SpDef adds signifigantly more physical bulky, but leaves you more susceptible to strong special attackers like Porygon-Z
  • return > body slam if you don’t need paralysis and want the extra power or if it actually screws you over like toxic stall, but in general the ability to cripple pokemon is worth it
  • Toxic, Fire Punch, and earthquake are good options over sleep talk, for more utility if your not so conserned about using moves while asleep
  • its pretty weak to physical attacks, so it’s a good idea to have something to take or deal with physical attackers, namingly fighting types like Hitmonlee and Medicham
  • ghosts such as Cofagrigus, Dusknoir, and Rotom as good partners, Claydol also works
  • Munchlax is pretty weak to entry hazards with no recovery outside of rest, so a rapid spinner is suggested, again Claydol is good partner
  • since its phasing things around, might as well use some sort of entry hazards, Drapion works well, also Drapion helps one’s team deal with Alakazam as Munchax can not deal with it because of Psycho Shock
[SET]

name: Curselax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Body Slam / Return
move 3: Earthquake / Fire Punch
move 4: Rest
item: Eviolite
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Careful
EVs: 136 HP / 124 Def / 248 SpD


[SET COMMENTS]
  • A more threatening offensive set that is capabile of demolishing unprepared teams
  • After a curse or 2, Munchlax is incredibly hard to take down with its solid special defense and defense, combined with a very threatening attack
  • Body Slam and Return are the main STAB options
  • Body slam for more utility in crippling things, or return for more power
  • Fire punch and earthquake damage pokemon that aren't hurt by return or body slam
  • Fire punch gives good coverage, but leaves Munchlax weaker to pokemon that resist normal / fire Lampent, Omastar, Kabutops, Regirock, and Rhydon
  • While earthquake damages all of those pokemon, it leaves you vulerable to ghost levitating ghost types such as Rotom, Driftblim, Misdrevus, and Shedinja
  • Earthquake is generally better because of its high base power, and Rotom is the only notable pokemon to wall it with Earthquake
  • Rest is a manatory recovery move to get rid of damage and status
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Like the previous set, the evs make sure Munchlax doesn't get 2HKOed by Alakazam's focus blast, the rest goes to defense
  • A more physically bulky spread can be used if your worried about that, also a 252 HP / 252 SpD spread can help to deal with special hits better, as after a few boosts, it becomes your weakest defensive stat
  • Again like the last set, 104 HP / 224 Def / 180 SpDef allows yout to take 2 Sharpedo crunches, without curse, while still keeping its special defense at an acceptable level
  • 124 HP / 248 Def / 136 SpDef adds signifigantly more physical defense, but it is on the edge for some stronger special attackers like Porygon-Z
  • Munchlax still is taking a shit ton of damage from fighting types pokemon like Medicham and Hitmonlee, even after a curse, so a pokemon that deals with them is suggested.
  • Such pokemon include Confagrigus and Dusknoir
  • Claydol can also deal with some fighting types, and can spin away hazards and set up stealth rocks
  • Since ghost types can beat you with earthquake, its suggested with it you have a pokemon that can beat them, if not trap and kill them, like Honchkrow and Krookodile
  • Same deal with fire punch, use a water type like Slowking to deal with those various rock types and Lampent
[OTHER OPTIONS]
  • Munchlax has a shiton of HP, so counter can be very useful, but it faces stiff competition for a team slot
  • ice punch, pursuit, zen headbutt, rock slide, brick break may all be useful for coverage, but fire punch or earthquake is usually fine
  • Odor slueth may help against ghosts, but steel and rock types will still wall you with it
  • Stockpile and amnesia may can be used, but it will be easily phased and stalled out by most teams
  • Munchlax can set up sunny day and rain dance if its on one of those teams
  • Double edge is the strongest STAB move it has, but recoil is counter productive to eviolite
[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
  • Strong physical pokemon can effectively force Munchlax out like Hitmonlee, Medicham
  • Hariyama can take amost any hit, and even benifits from paralysis thanks to guts
  • Pokemon with trick can effectivly cripple munchlax
  • Pokemon with taunt, like Sableye, can easily stall out Munchlax and beat it
  • The restalk set is very weak to leach seed from pokemon like Tangrowth and Ferroseed
  • The curse set is easily walled by ghosts or rock types, depending on what it has, earthquake or fire punch
  • Faster pokemon with phasing moves can easily get it out, like Steelix and Aggron
[DREAMWORLD]
  • Munchlax gets Gluttony, which allows it to eat Berries at only 50%. It generally useless in competitve battles since no Berry Munchlax eats will help it, not worth losing being not very effective to fire and ice attacks.
 
#2
I suppose Rock Slide isnt as viable without Yanmega in the tier but should still get a mention somewhere because there still is quite a few bugs in the tier that Munchlax walls well. But yeah the sets are ok. I dont have anything else to say until its complete though.
 

Honko

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#3
I don't think Munchlax needs to go 252/252 on the RestTalk set. I was playing with a 156 HP / 112 Def / 240 SpD spread (enough SpD that LO Alakazam's Focus Blast never 2HKOes, then maximize physical bulk) and was pretty happy with it. There might be a better spread than that, but the point is you definitely want some physical investment.

You can also combine RestTalk and Tank into one set imo.
 

Molk

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#4
for all sets, the ev spread that gives you the smallest amount of overall harm is

124hp/248def/136spdef careful,

this greatly increases your physical bulk, munchlax doesnt really need all that spdef it also equalizes your defenses to allow you to take hits well from both sides. I apologize if this counts as a bump.
 
#5
I am going to test both of those spreads over the weekend, I have been pretty busy this week with my final paper and stuff.

I am still going to try the tank set, if it doesn't work, I will drop it completely.
 
#6
So proud of little Munchlax! Went from totally unused to premier special wall! It is less effective now funnily enough because Yanmega, Venomoth and Cresselia are gone. It's heyday was slapping the broken mons around. Still good though!

As for EVs, I've tried nearly everything and have more or less settled on 104 HP/224 Def/180 SpDef Careful.

This is mainly to survive 2 Crunches from physical Sharpedo including rocks and it still slaps around most special attackers. I don't think Alakazam is an important benchmark because Munchlax loses every day of the week to that thing thanks to Psyshock and the sheer power of LO Focus Blast. If you try to survive FB, you will not survive Psyshock so it's futile and any entry hazards will screw over your efforts even more. The extra physical bulk also makes it a great counter to all forms of Entei, taking 30.9% - 36.6% from CB Flare Blitz.

There may be a better spread out there but I have found myself EVing more and more on the physical side the more I have used Munchlax because he doesn't lose much special bulk at all and gains the ability to check or counter many neutral physical threats in the process! It's been win-win all round.
 

Molk

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#7
So proud of little Munchlax! Went from totally unused to premier special wall! It is less effective now funnily enough because Yanmega, Venomoth and Cresselia are gone. It's heyday was slapping the broken mons around. Still good though!

As for EVs, I've tried nearly everything and have more or less settled on 104 HP/224 Def/108 SpDef Careful.

This is mainly to survive 2 Crunches from physical Sharpedo including rocks and it still slaps around most special attackers. I don't think Alakazam is an important benchmark at all because Munchlax loses every day of the week to that thing thanks to Psyshock and the sheer power of LO Focus Blast. If you try to survive FB, you will not survive Psyshock so it's futile and any entry hazards will screw over your efforts even more.

There may be a better spread out there but I have found myself EVing more and more on the physical side the more I have used Munchlax because he doesn't lose much special bulk at all and gains the ability to check or counter many neutral physical threats in the process! It's been win-win all round.
with no luck involveds spread, you still have 40 evs left over.
 
#10
It seems like the evs are the biggest issue here...

The currently listed 136 HP / 124 Def / 248 SpD spread was Honcko's spread, that I played around with to get a bit more defensiveness on both sides, the difference is probably negligible, but its there.

I personally thing the currently listed set is the more efficient, as it secures many 4 HKOs on special attacks which is needed with rest. While playing around with the curse set, I found the only way they can take you down forcibly, is raw special power, and the whirlwind still enjoys the special bulk for the same reasons.

No luck involved sets seems solid though, you only lose a slim chance or some 4HKOs which turn into 3HKOs, which is negligible. Also being able to survive Sharpedo's crunch is very pleasing too.

Molten Kyurem's set finally seems to be most physically bulky, about 3% more bulky then No Luck Involved's spread, and about 1% less specially bulky. That 1% special bulk difference will actually get you a few times.

There might be some more efficient spread between the 2, but at the moment I can't be bothered in finding it. I would be interested to see what the QC team says about this.
 

Oglemi

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#11
tbh all the EV spreads should just be AC and make Honko's the main spread. It all just depends on what you want Munchlax to survive, and the differences are minor.



QC APPROVED (1/3)

EDIT: o and it's called RestTalk not Restalk
 

Honko

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#13
Still not sure about those EVs, but whatever, it's not gonna make a huge difference. Just emphasize in the writeup that they can be adjusted for specific threats your team needs to cover.

On the Curse set, make EQ the first slash instead of Fire Punch. You mention EQ leaves you walled by Rotom, Dusknoir, Drifblim, Misdreavus, and Shedinja, but Dusknoir doesn't have Levitate, and the last three are pretty rare. Rotom's the only one that really matters, but I'd rather hit Omastar/Kabutops/Rock-types than Rotom. Throw in EQ's superior base power and I'd say it's the better option.

QC APPROVED 3/3