1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Musharna (QC 2/2) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by polop, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    It's name his hard to spell if I make a mistake with this please post saying so, will be up quickly. THIS THING IS SO DIVERSE BECAUSE OF IT'S MOVEPOOL AND ABILITY IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY. I combined 4 or so sets into 2.
    EDIT: Decided to do this analysis the long way by composing a skeleton first rather then completing the analysis as a whole first
    EDIT 2: I know the analysis is currently full of grammatical errors (that includes the statement up on the top of the analysis) but I'll try to fix a majority of them when I turn the skeleton into a fully written analysis.
    EDIT 3: Ready for QC checks!
    QC: Muffinhead, Solace
    GP: Shakeitup, Sirndpt
    [​IMG]
    Musharna
    EDIT 4: Some homework has delayed me from writing this, the whole analysis is currently on a notepad, will be placed on here after I've proofread it.
    EDIT 5: Ready for GP checks! (a bit daunting though <.<)

    Show Hide



    Overview:
    • Access to the fantastic ability, telepathy, that enables it to negate all damage that it's team mates may accidently use on it .
    • A incredibly diverse support movepool, that complements it's decent defenses.
    • Access to imprison enables it to shut down Trick room team's and take away the very usefil protect from the opponent.
    • Horrible Psychic-typing, making it weak to Pursuit, Dark Pulse, ghost-type moves, while only providing a somewhat useful Psychic and Fighting resist.
    • Incredibly low base speed stat of 29.
    • Access to somewhat reliable recovery in the form of moonlight.
    • Base 107 Special Attacking stat is decent, enough to ensure it is not complete set up bait.
    • Often competes with Cresselia who has higher base defenses, for a support role but has enough distinct advantages over its competitor to be a viable choice for any VGC team.
    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Trick Room
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Helping Hand
    move 4: Protect / Imprison / Light Screen
    item: Mental Herb / Sitrus Berry
    nature: Sassy
    ability: Telepathy
    evs: 252 HP /4 SpA / 252 SpD


    Why this set deserves to be on-site:
    • Easily sets up Trick Room and can annoy teams that use Trick Room with Imprison.
    • Arguably the bulkiest user of Trick Room + Imprison and the only one with a low speed and access to telepathy.
    • Can also serve as a fantastic Trick Room supporter due to it's low speed, bulk, and telepathy.
    Set Comments:
    • With the item Mental Herb getting a buff, Trick Room teams are harder to counter then they were last gen, and are nearly impossible to stop set-up. Musharna along with a few select other's gained the ability to completely shut down these devastating foe's by using Imprison.
    • Trick Room is the crux of the set creating distorted dimensions for it's team mates and returning the dimensions to normal when they are distorted.
    • Psychic provides reliable powerful STAB, prevents Musharna from being taunt-bait, and softens pokemon up for a team mates attack. It is also one of the only ways Musharna can hope to use to get past Whimiscoot.
    • Helping Hand works wonderfully with Telepathy, as it enables Musharna to boost the power of it's partner's attacking move without taking damage, enabling things like Marowak, or in rain anything with Surf, to suddenly become much more threatening.
    • The last slot is tricky to decide on. Protect is an overall wonderful move, scouting, and stacking passive damage against the opponent, while preventing Musharna from being harmed by it's opponent. Imprison enables Musharna to easily stop opposing Trick Room teams and prevents any of it's support pokemon from using Helping Hand. Lastly, Light Screen enables Musharna to assist it's partners more by helping them take special attacks much more easily.
    Additional Comments:
    • While Musharna may look like it needs all the recovery it can get, one should not forget that Mental Herb is perfectly usable over the other items. With a Mental Herb, Musharna can now set up Trick Room safely in front of a Whimsicoot without fearing a taunt or being encored into Trick Room.
    • While Musharna's set maxes Special Defense, one should note that Cresselia can do a better job at what Musharna does bar imprison due to it's much higher bulk on both sides. Musharna's only advantage over Cresselia is Telepathy which means it should only be used if the team needs something to shove off non-ground spread hits while setting up Trick Room or supporting the team.
    • Similar to Cresselia, Gardevoir can do a job similar to that of Musharna's with an anti-Trick Room team but has far less bulk and higher speed. Unlike Musharna though, it gets Heal Pulse so if one desires its Musharna they must value it's unique ability to take hits more then the ability to support team mates, and working well in Trick Room, lest they wish to be using an inferior option.
    Other Options:
    • Musharna can also try to run a telekinesis support set, but the opponent will more often then not get a free switch out of it instead of being threatened by it.
    • Musharna can run a set utilizing Lucky Chant to prevent "hax" but whether there are actual crits the move is blocking the move actually is not known.
    • Musharna can utilize a dual screen set but Cresselia generally does it better due to it's superior bulk.
    • Due to it's bulk and access to telepathy, Musharna can attempt to run a paralysis support set with Thunder Wave, however it should be mentioned that Cresselia may be superior towards support at lowering opponent's speed due to it's access to Icy Wind.
    • Musharna can opt to use a more defensive spread of 252 HP/ 252 SpD/ 4 Def with a Calm nature to become more specially bulky while on an anti-Trick Room team, but due to the fast paced action of doubles, the investment is generally not worth it. Musharna can also heavily invest in Special Attack to hit hard with a Quiet spread of 252 HP/ 252 SpA/ 4 Spd but it loses out on a lot of bulk with this change.
    • If Musharna is being used on an anti-Trick Room team then it is recommended to just use a Modest nature so that it can outspeed other enemy base 30 and below without being inside Trick Room.
    • Musharna can run Reflect over Light Screen if opposing Earthquakes and Rock Slides will be more of an issue to its team mates then Surfs and Heat Waves.
    • Psyshock is usable over Psychic to hit Specially defensive walls, like Blissey, harder then Psychic.
    • Shadow Ball can also replace Psychic if one desires better coverage, and the ability to hit the Lati twins Super Effectively.
    • Musharna can also run Rain Dance or Hypnosis for more support, but it generally won't be able to find room for it. Hypnosis's terrible accuracy just makes it more unappealing to use.
    • Musharna can also opt to use Safeguard and Magic Coat to bounce back statuses, or taunt with the ladder but Musharna generally has trouble finding space for the two moves.
    • Lastly Musharna can opt to run Moonlight for recovery in the last moveslot, but due to the fast-paced action in Double's it will rarely see a net gain in Musharna's HP stat and Musharna will have more or less either wasted a valuable turn to act and given the opponent a turn.
    Teammates & Counters:
    • Before deciding Musharna for a team, one must make sure they are not using an inferior Cresselia, whose bulk is much higher and offers a arguably larger support movepool and levitate over telepathy. Telepathy is why Musharna should be used over Cresselia due to the fact it not only avoids its partner's Earthquakes, but it's Surf's and Discharges as well.
    • Any team member with a spread move such as Surf that would not like to be hit greatly benefits from Musharna's ability Telepathy, due to the fact Musharna can use helping hand to boost the power of the move and still be immune to the aftershock of the attack.
    • Non Mental Herb Musharna are beaten by Whimsicoot who can Taunt Whimsicoot or trap it onto a supportive move with Encore.
    • Tyranitar can be an annoyance since it removes Musharna's Sunlight and can hit it hard with STAB Crunch that Musharna will have trouble surviving without the assistance of Reflect.
      Virtually any Pokemon that function well in Trick Room or appreciate dual screens helping it's bulk love the support provided by Musharna.
    • In particular, Musharna likes Hariyama support as it can fake out to help it set up Trick Room, Imprison, or get a screen up. In turn Hariyama can pound the opponent with Guts Helping Hand boosted Earthquakes, Rock Slide, and STAB Close Combat. It also easily eliminates pesky Tyranitars who also annoys Musharna.
    • Musharna also in particular likes Ninetales support since it summons sunlight for it's Moonlight, in turn Musharna can add power to it's already Double-STABed Heat Wave's while providing screen support, it also can help the slow iron ball Ninetales by setting up Trick Room for it. Ninetales also Heat Wave's Whimsicoot into oblivion who otherwise annoys Musharna.
    • Politoed does a similar job to Ninetales but instead eliminate's Tyranitar with High Powered Surfs, but however lowers the recovery of moonlight in the process.


    [Overview]

    <p>With an ability perfectly suited for the VGC metagame, overall decent stats, and a very useful support movepool, one may question why Musharna is not used in nearly all VGC teams. The answer is simple: when looking for a dedicated team supporter, Cresselia is usually preferred due to its better bulk and arguably better ability. This should not lead one to think Cresselia is superior to Musharna, however. Musharna's ability, Telepathy, enables it to fearlessly boost all its partner's spread attacks, a feat that Cresselia finds difficult to accomplish. Unlike Cresselia, Musharna also maintains the ability to remain a threat even after being Taunted, courtesy of its base 107 Special Attack stat. Furthermore, Musharna's ability to stop Trick Room teams with Imprison, a move Cresselia lacks, makes it a good candidate for a Trick Room or anti-Trick Room team. Couple this with its base 29 Speed stat and you will find Musharna to be the perfect weapon for and against Trick Room teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Trick Room
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Helping Hand
    move 4: Protect / Imprison / Light Screen
    item: Mental Herb / Sitrus Berry
    nature: Sassy
    ability: Telepathy
    evs: 252 HP /4 SpA / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With the item Mental Herb getting a buff, Trick Room teams are even harder to counter than they were last generation, and are nearly impossible to stop from setting up, which can be problematic for teams packing speedy and frail Pokemon. Musharna, along with a few select other Pokemon, gained the ability to completely shut down these devastating foes by using Imprison in conjunction with Trick Room. Musharna shines as the one of the only two users of this combination to also possess the ability Telepathy, and among those two, the one with much higher bulk.</p>

    <p>Trick Room is the crux of the set, enabling Musharna to distort dimensions to suit its teammates. Psychic provides a reliable and powerful STAB, prevents Musharna from being helpless in the face of Taunt, and softens foes up for a teammate's attack. It is one of the only ways Musharna can get past Whimiscott without excessive team support, and enables it to dent Amoonguss, who otherwise has no trouble putting your team to sleep via Spore. Helping Hand works wonderfully with Telepathy, as it allows Musharna to boost the power of its partner's attacking move, such as Earthquake or Surf without fear of taking damage. The last slot can be difficult to decide on. Protect is a staple move in doubles, scouting and stacking passive damage against the opponent, while protecting Musharna from harm. Imprison enables Musharna to easily stop opposing Trick Room teams and prevents any enemy support Pokemon from using Helping Hand. Lastly, Musharna can use Light Screen to assist its partners and itself by easing the damage from all special attacks, rain-boosted Surfs and sun-boosted Heat Waves in particular. Protect may be used in conjunction with Imprison to cause massive disruption to the opponent and to stall Trick Room turns, but it generally is not recommended as Musharna already has enough trouble deciding which four moves to use.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Musharna may appear to need all the recovery it can get, one should not forget that it dislikes being Taunted, as it prevents this from setting up Trick Room. Mental Herb enables it to avoid this catastrophic scenario as well as beat Whimsicott. It is recommended that you only use Sitrus Berry if you are using Musharna with Fake Out or Follow Me support, so that it will not be Taunted or Encored into Trick Room.</p>

    <p>When using Musharna for support, one must make sure to differentiate it from other Trick Room supporters. Cresselia's defensive stats outshine Musharna's, and its ability, Levitate, enables it to avoid not only its partners Earthquakes, but enemy Ground-type moves as well. For instance, if Musharna is only being used to power up Earthquakes, Cresselia would probably be the superior choice. When using Musharna in an anti-Trick Room team, one must ensure that it is not outclassed by Gardevoir as a supporter who boasts greater Speed and access to Heal Pulse. Musharna's advantage, however, is its significantly better bulk.</p>

    <p>Musharna dislikes having to take multiple STAB Surfs or Heat Waves; therefore, Fake Out support is much appreciated. Hariyama is an excellent option, as it can flinch one of the enemies as Musharna uses Trick Room, giving your team an immediate advantage by letting Hariyama spam massively powerful STAB Guts-boosted Close Combats. Musharna's ability to power up its allies' moves with Helping Hand makes it a fine teammate for Politoed and Ninetales, since it can power up their Surfs and Heat Waves without fearing friendly fire.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>Musharna has a slew of options that it can run, but it often has trouble finding a spare moveslot. Musharna can dual screens or Thunder Wave support but Cresselia is often preferred thanks to greater bulk and Levitate. Psyshock and Shadow Ball are other moves that Musharna can utilize if it wants to damage Taunt users. Musharna can utilize Telekinesis in conjunction with a partner that uses low accuracy moves, especially OHKO moves such as Sheer Cold and Fissure, but more often than not, the opponent will find himself getting a free turn instead of being KOed. Lucky Chant prevents critical hits, but they are too rare to make this tactic anything more than a gimmick. Musharna can use Safeguard and Magic Coat to bounce back status effects, but it is generally very difficult to find a spot for these two moves on a set. A Calm nature is preferred if Musharna is used in an anti-Trick Room team to help outspeed opposing Trick Room foes. Musharna utilizes Hypnosis well due to its defensive stats and Telepathy. However, Hypnosis's accuracy is too unreliable and Amoonguss is a better choice for sleep support. Lastly, Musharna receives Moonlight and can use it as a form of recovery, but not only is it too unreliable to use, it is also less useful due to the faster pace of the doubles metagame.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Whimsicott is arguably your best bet for preventing Musharna from using Trick Room: it packs priority Taunt and Encore to prevent Musharna without Mental Herb from setting up Trick Room, while Encore forces ones that do to restore the dimensions to their original state the subsequent turn, after Mental Herb has been broken by Taunt. Imprison Chandelure is also a handy annoyance; it is capable of stopping all Musharna's attempts to set up Trick Room through Imprison, and can quickly dispose of Musharna with STAB Shadow Balls. Tyranitar and Politoed are also annoyances as their abilities reduce the effectiveness of Musharna's only reliable recovery move, Moonlight; worse still, they can smack the dreamer with a powerful STAB move. Although Musharna's bulk is by no means shabby, it can be disposed of with multiple STAB attacks, and its lack of reliable recovery will prevent Musharna from recovering damage it takes.</p>
  2. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    933
    Mushurna -> Musharna
    whimsicoot -> Whimsicott
    Ninetale's -> Ninetales
    Surf's -> Surfs

    merge the sets please, use a -spe nature and mention calm in OO.
    musharna should be used on cresselia only for underspeeding and higher special attack. please slash in quiet nature, possibly even first.
    item order should be mental herb / sitrus berry.
    baton pass is incredibly difficult to pull off in such a fast paced meta, please remove all mentions of it and Pursuit.
  3. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    These changes have been implemented.
    I'm not sure about cress being > then mushurna, telepathy makes Mushurna much better at performing a support role to an extent, and Mushurna has some decent defense. In my experience of using him, I rarely use psychic and am often spamming helping hand to boost partner's a partners eq or surf and only resort to it when taunted, so I like the additional bulk if Calm is over Quiet (and if like that also should the ev spread be changed to 252 hp 252 sp atk?).

    Combining the two sets into one will result in a lot of slashes, and I'm not exactly sure which moves will have priority over the other, so I'd like approval before changing it.

    Should it look something like this?
    Show Hide

    name: Support
    move 1: Light Screen/ Trick Room/ Helping Hand
    move 2: Reflect / Helping Hand/ Trick Room
    move 3: Moonlight/ Helping Hand/ Imprison
    move 4: Psychic/ Protect/ Baton Pass
    item: Light Clay/ Mental Herb/ Sitrus Berry
    nature: Calm/ Quiet/ Sassy/ Modest
    evs: 252 HP /252 SpD / 4 Def Or 252 HP/ 252 SpA/ 4 SpD



    The idea of baton pass was to allow a free switch to another pokemon (which is incredibly hard), and Mushurna with it's incredibly slow speed can often allow that action under Dual Screens, passing Imprison is also easier to do then it sounds, which is something else that seperates it from Cresselia.
  4. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    933
    no they havent

    trick room
    psychic
    helping hand
    protect / imprison / light screen

    sassy nature, 252 hp / 4 def / 252 spa

    mental herb / sitrus berry
  5. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    I was referring to the changes I quoted earlier, or the grammer stuff. The other changes that you mentioned have now been implemented, with a merged support set. Moved mentions of all the other stuff to AC and Calm is now in OO.
  6. Ashton Micheals

    Ashton Micheals

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Grammar nitpicks
  7. Tyler

    Tyler No Longer Live
    is a VGC1 Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    630
    You should mention Thunder Wave in OO if the musharna is not being used for Trick Room.
  8. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    Although a bit late, I mentioned thunder wave in OO and fixed that grammer nitpick that Raikoo mentioned, but
    .
  9. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,174
    make sure to mention telepathy as an ability tag.
  10. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    I mention telepathy every where but forget to put it by the set <.<, inserted now by the only set it has.
  11. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    933
    sassy 252 hp / 4 spa / 252 spd should be main option, talked with other qcers

    quiet 252 hp / 252 spa / 4 spd in oo

    magic coat, shadow ball, and safeguard in oo please

    right now the AC section lists other options. refer to the analysis writing guide to change this.
  12. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    I don't know why I put other options in AC. Sorry about that. Switched that stuff around and listed actual AC stuff.

    Magic Coat, Shadow Ball, and Safeguard is now OO.

    252 HP/ 4 SpA/ 252 SpD Musharna (which lol was the original ev spread) is now the main spread.

    Also on a sidenote, which IRC channel is being used for discussing VGC, seems much better to just simply discuss all the changes there and implement them here rather then flooding the analysis with more and more posts.

    EDIT: Breludicolo's small change has been made.
  13. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,174
    SpA goes before SpD.
  14. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    933
    fix spacing on slashes and emphasize telepathy in team options

    qc 1 / 2
  15. Solace

    Solace swing from the chandelier
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,083
    QC 2/2 after you fix what muffinhead suggested
  16. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    All right will make changes in skeleton and then move to copyeditting when done with those and start writing :D, and edit back in this post when I'm done with it.

    Thanks for the QC checks for the sleeping beauty o.0.

    EDIT: Ok your changes to the skeleton have been made :D, it has been hided and can be opened by opening the hide tab. Starting to write analysis.
  17. Dragonmaster123

    Dragonmaster123

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    110
    for the EVs use these EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SDef with a relaxed nature

    these EVs worked in VGC 2011, and they give Musharna a great Spread of bulk on both sides.

    252 Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs 252 HP/220 Def Musharna: 45.41% - 53.67%

    252 Atk Life Orb Tyranitar Crunch vs 252 HP/220 Def Musharna: 72.94% - 85.32%

    252 Atk Life Orb Scizor Bug Bite vs 252 HP/220 Def Musharna: 79.82% - 93.58%

    252 SpAtk Normal Gem Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs 252 HP/36 SpDef Musharna: 67.89% - 80.28%(adaptability)

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/36 SpDef Musharna: 68.81% - 80.73%

    252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs 252 HP/220 Def Musharna: 74.54% - 88.07%(in Sun)

    These Evs work much better on Musharna then just investing it all in Special Defense
  18. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,555
    Of the Pokemon you mentioned for calcs, almost none commonly use the mentioned items except for the final three, all of which Musharna would survive even with just 252 HP. I don't see how that's really effective.
  19. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    Well also Maxing Sp def on the spectrum enables it to take 1 Double STABed Hydro Pump from Modest Ludicolo which I feel is much more significant then it matching up against Blaziken and Latios, both of which are greatly annoyed by the presence of distorted dimensions.
  20. Solace

    Solace swing from the chandelier
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,083
    mr.lol please work on writing this up
  21. Harlot

    Harlot

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    446
    Amateur GP check.
    Add
    Remove
    Comments

    Show Hide


    Did the best I could; please refrain from hating me. ;_;
  22. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    Implemented, I'm not sure about the removal of Double STAB though, seeing as STAB Surf is much weaker then Double STABed ones.

    Why would we hate you for a amateur check lol. Thanks for the check regardless :D.
  23. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,791
    Stamping Trollmonchan's check

    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 1/2
  24. MMX

    MMX

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,999
    Remove
    Add/Change

    Amateur GP check in progress

    EDIT: Done
  25. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    Thanks Megaman X for the amateur check :D. Your check has been implemented.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)