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My 2nd RMT-Bullet Punch of Doom

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by smashlloyd20, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    So I got into competitive battling, made a team, posted it as a RMT and....it sucked. So I revised my philosophy, and built a team around one Pokemon-Scizor. It's an amazingly strong Pokemon with access to priority and Swords Dance-what's not to like? So...my team!

    AT A GLANCE


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG](WASH FORME) [​IMG][​IMG]

    UNDER THE MICROSCOPE

    THE LEAD
    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 172 HP/84 SPD/252 SAtk
    Mild Nature (+SPAtk -Def)
    - Stealth Rock-stealth rock entry hazard support. Yeah...
    - Hidden Power [Grass]-Killing Swampert and other bulky waters.
    - Overheat-VERY powerful hit and run STAB
    - Explosion-suicide for low health situations

    Heatran gets up stealth rock, which Scizor needs to do its job. It also eliminates fires, which are obviously the biggest threat to Scizor. It can kill Machamp with Overheat (a very big threat), and kill some bulky waters with HP Grass.

    THE MIDGAME SWEEPER
    [​IMG]
    Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 228 Atk/252 Spd/28 HP
    Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
    - Earthquake-Basic, powerful STAB.
    - Stone Edge-kills annoying flyings
    - Outrage-Basic STAB, kills Dragons.....and everything really.
    - U-turn-For unfavorable matchups.

    Well, ScarfGon is back after being an LOGon for a bit. It can hit Kingdras if it's not raining, Dragonites, and especially other Flygons. It's a very good revenge killer, and patches up a lot of my team's weaknesses.

    THE STALL BREAKER
    [​IMG]
    Crobat (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird-General STAB and huge damage to Shaymin
    - Super Fang-Stall breaker move because it always does the same amount of damage
    - Taunt-another stall breaker move, stops setup and entry hazards
    - Roost-healing and annoyance value.
    One big threat to Scizor are setup sweepers. They come in on a resisted Bullet Punch, get a free setup turn, and sweep. Crobat is here to prevent it. It's a great wall breaker with Super Fang, and can rip apart Shaymin, another threat to my team.

    THE ANNOYING SEMI-STALLER
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-w @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 HP
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute-Make a Sub and hide behind it, then heal up with Pain Split or hammer away with a STAB move
    - Thunderbolt-general STAB.
    - Hydro Pump-kills Tyranitar, Rocks, and Fires.
    - Pain Split-The main move of this set. Healing, taking down defensive opponents, and general annoyance value.

    After much consideration, Rotom has been changed to a SubSplit set (props to TheLegendKiller). This Pokemon can be REALLY annoying. It sets up a Sub, and kills Tyranitar and other problematic Pokemon with its STAB moves. Or, if it cannot actually hurt them, it brings them down with Pain Split.

    THE LATE-GAME SWEEPER
    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP/76 Atk/180 SpDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance-general setup purposes.
    - Bullet Punch- Scizor's main killing move, extremely strong after an SD
    - Roost-healing so Scizor can stay in longer.
    - Brick Break-kills Blissey and Magnezone.

    This Pokemon is amazing. He can sweep entire teams after one Swords Dance. I bring him out late in the battle to finish off the opponent. When opponents' Pokemon are low on health, he comes in and kills them all with repeated bullet punches. I have switched him to a specially defensive set (again, props to TheLegendKiller) that takes on Blissey and Magnezone with ease.

    THE BULKY WATER
    [​IMG]
    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf-Basic STAB.
    - Calm Mind-Setup move
    - Ice Beam-general coverage
    - Hidden Power [Electric]-gyarados and other water and flying types.

    Suicune is my only semi-bulky Pokemon. It comes in and hopefully gets a CM, then destroys things with its 3 damage moves. Stops Gyarados, a great Scizor counter because of Intimidate.
    So...that's it. Comments please!
  2. lordkira

    lordkira

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    On your Lucario wouldn't it be best to get rid of agility for extremespeed since it does learn a priority move? I'm not that great of a team rater but I just wanted to let you know on that one thing I've noticed on our team man.
  3. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    True...ok i'll make the change.
  4. NeoSeth

    NeoSeth

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    Some more detailed descriptions would be nice. For example, explain how each Pokemon works together to achieve your goal (A Scizor sweep).

    As for the actual team, I can never condone the use of a suicide lead. To that end, I HAVE to say that you should replace Aerodactyl with Shuca Heatran. He's always been a solid lead, and you have an answer to Machamp. Heatran beats other Aerodactyl by hitting them with Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Overheat as they Taunt, and then making them choose to set-up or die. If they attack, you can switch to Rotom on the second EQ. Heatran also patches up the Fire weaknesses on your team.

    Speaking of Fire weaknesses, once set-up, Infernape can rip apart this team pretty handily if Rotom's gone, which will happen if someone's packing Tyrannitar and Infernape together. I also don't understand your Starmie spread, since even if it is bulky, it doesn't use Starmie to it's fullest potential. You can change Starmie to a more offensive build with Timid, LO/Lefties, 252 SA/252 Spd/6 HP, Surf/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunder Bolt and Rapid Spin/Recover. If you want a bulky water, however, look no further than Tentacruel. It gives you a fantastic Infernape check while giving you Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes and generally great bulk. You could even be a balla and use the SD set (Better than people give it credit for).

    Now, for Lucario... hmm... okay, Agility on the switch then SD. It's an idea I had awhile back, but the coverage didn't really pan out and whatnot, so... but hey, if you want to use it, go for it. I would recommend Shuca Berry over LO, and an Adamant nature, since after an Agility you outspeed Scarfgon anyway and the slightly higher damage helps a lot. This way, you can survive an EQ and SD up, then proceed to kill things.

    This isn't as good a rate as I could've given if you had been more elaborate and fleshed out your team's synergy and whatnot some more. You can check my RMTs, or just head over to the RMT archive for some great examples of how to do it. Help us to help you.

    EDIT: Bullet Punch over Extremespeed if you make that change. It's great for raping Scarftar that think they've got you covered. But you don't need to conform to SD Luke if you like this set; only change it if it doesn't work. Agility Lucario is also awesome, with CC/Crunch/Ice Punch. It beats the SD set counters (Except for Britscor, who will hax and beat you 99.999999% of the time). But test your set for awhile longer and see how it works with LO and Shuca before you really make changes. And again: Make your descriptions more detailed.
  5. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
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    Hey I got your message, interesting team. However I am going to have to disagree with NeoSeth on an issue here, I don't see how you're weak to Infernape. Starmie is a counter and Rotom can revenge it, how is it difficult to stop? Furthmore suggesting Tentacruel or a LESS bulky Starmie doesn't really solve this so I'm not sure what the logic was. Regardless Tentacruel is just simply not a good Pokemon on any offensive team. He's a stall Pokemon, and really isn't even that good at that. Regardless I think Starmie, if you originally had one, is much better for this team- LOSpin seems the best option considering that you're quite weak to stall.

    Speaking of, that Heatran set is fine but I have something probably a bit better. You currently lose to Machamp. That sucks, because he's common (although admittedly dropping in usage) and really wrecks this team, h can still put some dents in Tentacruel even if you decided to keep him. With this in mind, I think the Mild LO Heatran set works better here:

    [​IMG] Heatran @ Life Orb
    172 HP / 252 SpAtk / 84 Spe
    Mild
    -Stealth Rock
    -Overheat
    -Hidden Power Grass
    -Explosion

    This set is just an overall better Heatran in my opinion. He's a ridiculously good stall breaker as well as lead, he can even OHKO Machamp with Overheat. He has added bulk and offensive power, and the speed drop, while regrettable, is not as significant as you may think.

    You're also running dual scarfers, which I personally dislike. I think Rotom should be enough for this team's purposes, and as such you might consider a different Flygon set. CB is unexpected and works well, as well as LO versions. Alternatively Mixnite could work well in the slot, or CB Nite functions well as a "back-up" revenge killer. Really you can use whatever you want here, I just don't like dual scarfers.

    Overall, really solid effort and a cool team. Hope this helps.

    EDIT: Actually my very first RMT (and probably top five on posts, I don't remember) was around a SD scizor sweep. Funny eh?
  6. ShinyAzelf

    ShinyAzelf
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    I highly suggest using a Jolly nature over Adamant on Flygon, because Flygon's job is to revenge kill Pokemons who have gotten a boost or two, like Tyranitar after 2 Dragon Dances. The little extra power doesn't make a difference, but the speed does. Also, I've found myself using Naive Flygon whenever I have Fire Blast, because it does only around 40% to Skarmory with a - Sp. Atk nature, and it rarely helps.

    You definitely don't need Hidden Power Ground on Tentacruel. Surf does a boatload to Heatran anyways. Maybe put Hidden Power Electric so Gyarados can't set up Dragon Dance on you?

    Good luck!
  7. Faladran

    Faladran
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    Hello,

    This team looks quite good as is, and with some of the given suggestions taken into account should be even better. I want to begin by seconding Smith's suggestion of LO lead Heatran. Both of us seem to have been recommending this set a lot lately, as it functions quite a bit better than ShucaTran in the current metagame due to its ability to beat Machamp and Swampert leads. An alternative EV spread involving more speed can be used, but the suggested one is quite good as it allows you to outspeed defensive Rotom-A and possesses quite a bit of extra bulk, which is useful for switching back in during later stages of the game.

    The only main recommendation that I'd like to make is regarding Tentacruel. While it is by no means a bad Pokemon, I feel that it is somewhat out of place on this team in terms of pacing, and Toxic Spikes don't really benefit you significant either; they are best utilized with bulkier Pokemon that aim to outstall the opponent, while your team is quite offensive. Since you still need a solid bulky Water-type to switch into threats like opposing Heatran (Starmie takes a very signficant amount of damage even switching into resisted attacks), I think that an offensive Suicune could work well in Tentacruel's place, with its high amount of bulk and good type coverage:

    [​IMG]
    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Electric

    Suicune is a great addition to most teams as a component of FWG cores, and can be quite a potent offensive threat if played correctly. It also can reliably counter opposing Gyarados, which takes a lot of pressure off of Rotom, who needs to avoid switching in on Waterfalls. After a single Calm Mind boost, which often is not difficult to attain, Suicune can take even certain super-effective moves without much trouble. For example, a LO Starmie's Thunderbolt will only deal 39.2% - 46.2% damage to a +1 Suicune, meaning that you can easily take the attack and KO back with HP Electric. The type coverage of Water, Ice, and Electric is very potent at dismantling common FWG cores, meaning Suicune can sweep quite well after it nets a couple of boosts. Hydro Pump vs Surf for the main STAB attack is basically power vs accuracy and PP, so the choice is up to you as far as which option you find more effective.

    Good luck with your team!
  8. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Thanks for all the help guys! And a fun fact; my team actually had a Starmie and a Suicune on it before Tentacruel.

    EDIT: @Smith-because Scizor is just that awesome.
  9. afterburn

    afterburn Villain of some untold story
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    The other rates have made this a solid team against the popular threats, but I still think that a Dragon Dance (Babiri Berry) Tyranitar could cause you some issues. It's not hard to grab a boost on Rotom-H locked into Shadow Ball or Overheat. From there it has the power to at the very least 2HKO every member between +1 Stone Edge/Crunch/Fire Punch. It also seems that this team is weak to the Swords Dance Lucario+Choice Scarf Tyranitar combo. Since your only true counter to Swords Dance Lucario is Rotom-H, once it gets Pursued/Crunched, Swords Dance Lucario can be an annoyance to the team. Opposing Offensive Suicune can get a +1 boost on Rotom-H locked into Overheat or Heatran after Overheat recoil (you can only Explode). From there, your chances of winning are slim, as the best you can do is try and fight a CM war with your own Suicune (which the opposing Suicune would win if it gets a CM boost on Rotom-H/Heatran). Rotom-H is guaranteed to die to a +1 Hydro Pump after SR.

    To alleviate this problem, I think you should try Choice Scarf Flygon over your current Flygon. Your description for Flygon isn't clear, so I'm assuming you use it to remove the steel types that annoy Scizor, such as Metagross, Heatran, Skarmory, Magnezone, Jirachi. Skarmory is handled by Rotom-H, and its not like your current set will be doing much to Physically Defensive variants. Metagross, Heatran, Magnezone and Jirachi hate facing Flygon, and they are also handled by Rotom-H (bar Heatran, who is taken care of by Flygon+Suicune). Most importantly, Flygon gives you the edge against Choice Scarf Tyranitar+SD Lucario teams, while also handling the most common variant of Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Flygon also handles many of the threats that Rotom-H is there for revenging. 28 HP/252 Atk/228 Spe with Jolly/Choice Scarf and Earthquake/U-turn/Thunderpunch/Dragon Claw is pretty much your standard revenge killer. The EVs may seem strange at a glance, but they are there so you can take on Jolly Lucario's +2 Extremespeed, and OHKO with Earthquake (props to Nosferalto for this, I saw this spread in one of his previous rates). Rotom-H can now be swapped for a Rotom-W Subsplit set, with 252 Satk/4 Def/252 Spe with a Life Orb, Timid Nature, Substitute/Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt/Pain Split, or Shadow Ball over Hydro Pump if desired. This means you have a very good check to Adamant Lucario on your hands, and Tyranitar will not be so eager to switch in anymore. With Flygon gone (gon gone), it seems you need a better way to handle steel types in general, and I think Rotom is the perfect candidate for that, while also putting pressure on the opponent's team, as this is one of the uncommon sets for Rotom, so you're opponent will be like WTF?!!!

    Now for the Suicune weakness, I think it will be beneficial for you to try out a Leech Seed Shaymin over Breloom. Again, your descriptions aren't very clear, but it seems Breloom's purpose is to rid the team of annoying Water- types, which Shaymin accomplishes, while being an annoyance against Stall teams. Gliscor using Toxic against a water type switch-in, then going to Shaymin against the water type again, leech seeding, then using protect, will mean they're going down fast with accumulating Leech Seed+Poison damage. Shaymin can take on Suicune much better than Breloom or any other member with the following spread, Leech Seed, Protect, and Seed Flare. 252 HP/120 Satk/136 Spe with Leftovers, Seed Flare/Protect/Leech Seed/HP Fire is a great set, guaranteeing you outspeed Timid Suicune, while packing quite a punch behind its Seed Flare

    With the removal of Breloom, Blissey may be hard to kill, although it will definitely have a hard time against Leech Seed Shaymin and Subsplit Rotom. I think a Specially Defensive SD Scizor will let it set up on Blissey, not giving a fuck about Paralysis, and even set up on Zapdos lacking Heatwave. Flamethrower/Toxic versions will have a hard time against Heatran (iirc, Scizor can set up on it as well with the following spread). 252 HP/76 Atk/180 SDef is fine with Leftovers and Bullet Punch/Brick Break/Swords Dance/Roost and an Adamant Nature. This variant has a significantly easier time against its specially based counters, such as non- HP Fire Magnezone that rely on Thunderbolt to take care of Scizor, will definitely be in a world of pain
    Also, since this

    Other than that, I think this is a solid team.

    GL
  10. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    @ TheLegendKiller: I think these are mostly good suggestions (especially SubSplit Rotom) but there is one thing I am Adamant about (lol): Breloom. You see, Breloom is sometimes not the one killing the sleeping Pokemon. If I can, I sleep a Pokemon, bring Scizor in on it, get an SD, and proceed to sweep. Also, that Suicune weakness? With the rest of the changes that you said, it really doesn't exist anymore. Scarfgon kills it, Rotom kills it, it can't really do much against Scizor, and Heatran can kill it under some circumstances. So, I apologize, but Breloom stays.
  11. afterburn

    afterburn Villain of some untold story
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    Yeah the same thought came to my mind when I was rating the team, but then I saw Heatran. I said to myself hmmm... well the best thing he could do is explode. Guess I overdid it there, since Heatran can explode if the need arises, and every member hurt it. But when you said : "Flygon kills it". Careful there my friend, no way a Flygon should be sticking around a full health Suicune, because the maximum damage it can do is 50% with Outrage, but gets OHKOed in return with Ice Beam.

    But yeah, glad you liked the other suggestions
  12. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    That's true, but I have been battling with the team since I changed it, and Suicune is really not a problem anymore. Thanks a lot, though!
  13. ENZ0

    ENZ0
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    Hey smashlloyd20,

    Cool team! I think the team is close to done, and with some changes can completely B0SS. In my surprise, the only setup sweeper this team seems to be weak to is Breloom and SD Lucario. As you know it's a must to be able to check them, and there are two routes you can take to fix this trouble. The first one is simple and includes changing Rotom's spread to 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, but it leaves you weak to Breloom. The second route is changing Rotom for Gengar. Gengar's set would then be Gengar @Life Orb | Timid Nature | 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe | Substitute / Pain Split / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast. Gengar easily stops Breloom and SD Lucario in their tracks, and gives you another solid check for the Infernape.

    Now for the simple changes, I suggest using Outrage over Dragon Claw and Stone Edge over Thunderpunch on Flygon. Outrage provides the needed power to OHKO it's Dragon brethren, and Stone Edge is much stronger for flyers while coming close to Dragon Claw's damage output. I think this is it!

    Hope this helps and good luck!
  14. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Thanks! And Breloom has never presented much of a problem to this team, as Suicune can own it, Heatran can sometimes kill it, and Flygon definitely leaves a dent.
  15. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    Rating by request.

    Damn, looks like I got to the rating party late again, and the team is practically complete. You definitely have a lot of good checks built into this team, so great job so far. However, have you noticed that your team seriously struggles against Shaymin? Life Orb Shaymin with Hidden Power Fire basically sweeps your entire team clean. Flygon doesn't like switching into a STAB Life Orb Seed Flare, the rest of your team gets outsped and OHKOed. You definitely don't want to have such a glaring weakness on your team. So to fix this, I decided that Breloom was probably your team's weakest and most replaceable link. In Breloom's place, I would like to suggest a stall breaker Crobat (did I also mention you currently don't have anything good for taking down stall, other than Rotom-A?), who just so happens to be one of the best Shaymin checks in the game! The specific set is:

    Crobat @ Leftovers
    Jolly, 232 HP / 56 Def / 156 Spe / 68 SpD
    Inner Focus
    -Taunt
    -Brave Bird
    -Super Fang
    -Roost

    This guy is awesome right now. I know you like Breloom for checking bulky waters, but trust me, Breloom isn't the best water check, because Offensive Suicune outspeeds and OHKOs it with Ice Beam. This guy, on the other and, can switch into an Offensive Suicune, Super Fang it, survive the +1 Ice Beam, and then Brave Bird for ridiculous damage. It also takes 1/4 damage from Seed Flare, and destroys Shaymin with Brave Bird. As a bonus to using this set, Crobat will lure in a lot of Scizor's counters and weaken them significantly with Super Fang. Finally, Crobat really solves your stall issue as well.

    Anyways, with this fix, I think your team looks top notch. I hope you found my rate useful, smashlloyd20, and I wish you the best of luck in the future!
  16. Boondocker

    Boondocker

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    You have a pretty large weakness to zapdos (all versoins) and rotom (again, all versoion). Zapdos can outstall your entire team with toxic once it gets a sub up. Yeah i know you have breloom to absorb toxic and thunderbolt...but what is he doing back to zappy? Seed bomb does lol damage and breloom will eventually die to thunderbolt. Flygon is hardly a check since it must outrage and that can be roost stalled. Im not really sure how to fix this since i struggle with zappy myself, but one option is to try a specially defensive heatran somewhere and get a new lead. As for rotom, you could try a band/scarf tar over breloom, because like someone said breloom isnt the best water check and you already have rotom to beat them.
  17. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    @Philip7086:

    Thanks for the help! I will make the Crobat change. I actually did realize Breloom was the worst part of my team, and that Shaymin destroys me. But I kept Breloom just for rage value...but now it's gone :(
  18. SausageXD

    SausageXD

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    with your suicune set, why max out spD when your just going to be raising it?
    I suggest 100HP 252spA 80def 80spD
  19. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    @SausageXD:
    Suicune is not a physical tank-or really any tank at all. It is a fairly specially bulky setup sweeper. So, I max out SDef so it can take T-Bolts from things like Jolteon and Rotom-A.

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