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My Best Draught stall team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Adrian Marin, May 31, 2011.

  1. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    592
    This is my best Draught stall team I made feel free to judge it.

    Tentacruel,Liquid Ooze,Careful,252 HP,136 Defense,116 Special Defense,Black Sludge


    Toxic Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Confuse Ray
    Toxic


    Tentacruels Base Defense is underwhelming but with a few EV,s it can survive a few physical sweepers such as Weaville and Kingdra. Tentacruel can abuse Toxic Spikes quite effectively with confuse ray while toxic might seem useless but it can cripple common leads such as hippowdon and tyranitar.


    [​IMG]


    Ninetales,Draught,Calm,252 HP,104 Defense,148 Special Defense,Air Balloon.


    Hypnosis
    Fire Blast
    SolarBeam
    Will-O-Wisp

    Ninetales Is very important in this team cause of its amazing ability. While hypnosis is very unreliable its worth a shot to make a target fall asleep.
    Fire Blast is its main attacking move being boosted by sun and stab it hits really hard. Solarbeam is great for common water pokemon such as swampert and quagsire considering no charging time cause of draught.
    and will-o-wisp can destroy many pokemon like excadrill.


    [​IMG]


    Tropius,Harvest,Calm,252 Defense,128 Special Defense,120 HP,Sitrus Berry.

    Protect
    Substitute
    Leech Seed
    HP Fire

    For those of you who dont know tropiuses potential in this generation you first must know its ability Harvest. Harvest enables the use of a berry unlimited times which can be abused many different ways such as spamming substitute with sitrus berry till the opponent dies of toxic or using a lum berry with rest for an instant 100% recovery. I am using the sitrus stall and I am very aware of its ice weakness I will mention more about his ice weakness later on.Protect can help increase the stall of leech seed,scout and allow another recovery from sitrus berry.Substitute makes him a threathening subseeder and even toxic staller alone considering the non stop healing from sitrus berry. Leech Seed is great for steels poisons flyings and levitating pokemons such as Excadrill,Gengar,Offensive Aerodactyl,And Toxicroak.
    And HP Fire can damage ferrothorn forretress and venusaur pretty bad.
    Tropius can also take care of many ground weaknesses of my team.

    [​IMG]


    Hydreigon,Levitate,Modest,252 Special Attack,252 Speed,4 HP,Choice Scarf.

    Draco Meteor
    Fire Blast
    HP Dark
    Earth Power

    Hydreigon is now one of the best revenge killers in the game with its overwhelming Special attack and he is pretty bulky for a revenge killer considering its resistances to ghost,dark,grass,water,fire,and electric. and its immunites to both psychic,and ground. while draco meteor its his reliable stab move which can one hit KO Garchomp and Salamence. Fire Blast is his pseudo stab and can one hit KO many pokemon that are weak to it. HP dark may seem strange considering it is overshadowed by dark pulse but if I were to put dark pulse then I wouldnt be able to add earth power to my moves.
    And Earth Power is for more reliability to common threats like Infernape.


    [​IMG]


    Heatran,Flash Fire,Modest,252 Special Attack,252 Speed,4 HP,Choice Scarf


    Eruption
    Earth Power
    HP Fighting
    SolarBeam


    Heatran with stab draught can actually one hit KO gliscor and if he gets flash fire he can one hit KO both Garchomp and salamence and even 2 hit KO vaporeon. earthpower could kill other heatrans but he will have trouble with balloon heatrans,HP Fight could Damage Tyranitars pretty well and other threats such as Hydreigon. And SolarBeam Could kill many common waters like swampert.

    http://t0.gstatic.com/images?
    q=tbn:ANd9GcQQGjPKUAP5yXRj14fTdmF4K6w7bQyj0xSDgxAHX7Pp-UrNhUW9&t=1


    Golurk,No Guard,Careful,100 Attack,212 Defense,120 Special Defense,76 HP,Leftovers.


    Dynamic Punch
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Curse


    Golurk is my reliable rapid blocker having immunities to many of my pokemons weaknesses such as Tentacruels electric weakness and Heatrans fighting weakness while it can stop many common normal move and it is even immune to both glare and thunderwave.Dynamic Punch is great even without stab considering its additional confuse hax. Meanwhile after confusing the opponent it can use earthquake as a reliable stab or stone edge for other pokemon. and curse may seem very strange but its actually a great move because no one is immune to it and it goes through subs.


    [​IMG]


    Well Thats all Please Rate it!
  2. maxbarnyard

    maxbarnyard

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    Okay, a few things about your Heatran:
    1) Eruption is only legal with a Quiet nature, since it was only available as an event move and that event Heatran only came with that nature.
    2) If you're using a scarf on Heatran you should really be using a speed-boosting nature, such as Timid
    3) HP Fighting isn't very good on Heatran, since it gets similar coverage already from Earth Power. Your team would likely benefit more from HP Ice, since it's becoming the most common hidden power type that Heatran are running.
    4) Clever to use Solarbeam, since a lot of Heatran use (or at least used to use) HP Grass. Hope that works out for you. Watch out for weather changers on the switch, though, since they'll force it to charge and possibly KO you the next turn.

    Now for your Hydreigon:
    Why would you use HP Dark? First off, it's a bad Hidden Power type on most things that want a Hidden Power. I know you want Earth Power and the two conflict, but it's really not worth the bad base power, even considering STAB. If you have your heart set on Earth Power (and I can see why you prefer it over Surf on a sun team), you would probably be better off throwing Dragon Pulse or U-Turn over it, since it just doesn't have the oomph you want. Also, the same logic I used on Heatran's nature applies here: use Timid, not Modest, when you're using a scarf.

    Golurk:
    Curse isn't great, actually, since you have to cut half your HP to use it, and Golurk's recovery is minimal at best. Especially on a team that's stall-minded, just giving up that much HP in one turn is just counter-intuitive to your purpose to stall the opponent out. You'd probably be better off using a Chandelure or Dusclops, since Chandelure loves sun support and Dusclops is just monstrously bulky.

    Finally, just a note about your team's general idea. You purport to use it as a stall team, but from what I can tell, it's more offensive, since there are two choiced pokemon, your spinblocker is one of the more offensive ghosts, and your stallers aren't the most defensive pokemon out there. Also, your team just generally doesn't benefit that much from sun, beyond Heatran and Ninetales' Solarbeams and Tropius' HP Fire, so you would probably be better off dropping Ninetales and putting Surf back on Hydreigon. Your team really doesn't need sun to function, and would instead benefit from a much-needed increase in overall bulk. For example, it's very unlikely that your Ninetales would be able to land a Will-O-Wisp on any Excadrill unless you got the W-o-W on the switch, since even though Ninetales has base 100 Spe compared to Excadrill's 88, you're not investing in its speed at all, and most any Excadrill would outspeed and OHKO, since no Excadrill player in his/her right mind will try to set up on a Fire-type, especially if sun is up. I'd decide whether you want your team to be offensive or defensive, then really emphasize that idea. Bulky Leaf Guard Leafeon, for example, could make a pretty decent physical wall that would be immune to status. Hope I've helped somewhat, and best of luck!
  3. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    you helped a big lot and I thank you. its sad to see that heatran with eruption can only be quiet nature and if I add chandelure there would be too much ground weakness or rock weakness and of course curse may seem bad to sacrifice HP but since it can go through subs it can also go through baton passers baton passing the curse and it helps a big deal.

    you are right about leafeon but that would mean sacrificing tropius or hydreigon and also the reason why I dont rely too much on sun is also to counter other weather who would destroy sun teams which is why my team usually beats rain teams.

    thanks for rating it and I hope more will understands about this. and I need priority really dusclops could be a great replacement for golurk.
  4. maxbarnyard

    maxbarnyard

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    Generally, the most common way a stall team would deal with subs is through phazing. Also, I'm noticing a dearth of entry hazards on your team. As it stands now, you only have Toxic Spikes which, while good, shouldn't be your only hazard. The way most stall teams function is by stacking hazards and forcing switches, leading to the enemy team simply wearing itself down with residual damage. This is why sand is the most common weather for stall teams to abuse, since it damages most pokemon on every turn and yet still has a workable number of pokemon immune to it around which you can form a team. You really shouldn't worry too much about inflicting a singly status through a sub when you could just roar/whirlwind/dragon tail the opponent out and eliminate the sub entirely.

    The same logic goes for baton pass teams, which in addition to being just as easy to phaze to death (bar ingrain) are far less common, so they really shouldn't be a primary worry at this stage of your team's creation. If you want to make this a stall team, the best thing you could do for it is add more entry hazards and at least one phazer, if not two. Once again a bulky Leafeon would work wonders here, with a set like:

    Leafeon @ Leftovers
    Leaf Guard
    Impish 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD (EVs up for debate, this is only preliminary)
    - Wish / Rest
    - Leaf Blade
    - Roar
    - Protect / Toxic

    Wish would support the team, but with sun, Rest is a free one-turn heal, which is terrifying to any physical sweeper lacking a SE move. Don't just rely on sun to counter other weather, that's why we have Golduck and Lickilicky. CAPITALIZE ON YOUR SUN. Also, Tropius, though reasonably bulky, just doesn't have the bulk to make up for its terribly typing, leaving it weak to Fire, Poison, Flying, 4x weak to Ice, and, maybe most importantly, weak to Rock, so Stealth Rock will destroy it. And Tentacruel won't necessarily be able to spin those rocks away, since, in the lead spot, it will likely die just trying to set up two layers of T-Spikes. Come to think of it, Tentacruel really isn't a good lead, since it doesn't invest in speed and is, for all intents and purposes, total Taunt bait. Yeah, rapid spin is an attack, but just watch as they send in Excadrill, scare Tentacruel away, and set up an SD or just straight up EQ, since you really have few safe switch-ins for it beyond Hydreigon.
  5. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Rest does not work with Leaf Guard like Hydration - it prevents status whereas Hydration instantly cures it. Synthesis would work as a replacement, however, but the lack of PP is offputting.
  6. maxbarnyard

    maxbarnyard

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    Aah thanks for the clarification, I've never used it so I wasn't sure. That's irritating, but yeah use Morning Sun over Rest. That's really irritating, it would make Leafeon so much more useful. Maybe Lum Berry Rest Harvest on Tropius?
  7. Ulysses

    Ulysses

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    Just a note: there is absolutely no reason to run Hidden Power Dark over Dark Pulse on Hydreigon.
  8. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    I dont get it why not sitrus berry? and I placed heatran to take care of all his weaknesses except rock which is why I placed golurk which can one hit KO tyranitar with Dynamic punch.

    And I used HP dark instead of dark pulse to get Earth Power.
  9. maxbarnyard

    maxbarnyard

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    You might get more mileage out of Lum + Rest on Tropius (or you may want to straight up replace Tropius with Exeggutor; I'm pretty sure he's generally a better Harvest abuser). And Golurk is not a safe switch-in for Tyranitar, since most Tyranitar you'll encounter will either just switch if they're choice-locked or outright OHKO with Crunch or Ice Beam. It's a bit silly to expect Golurk to take something out (a) for which it's not a safe switch-in and (b) that is liable to outspeed and OHKO with SE STAB. In addition to all that, most of your opponents won't have to worry too much about it since you're just going to suicide it with Curse, and they can simply switch to get rid of its effect.
  10. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Imo Chesto Berry>Lum Berry for resting harvesters. The berry is only renewed once per turn, and if you get hit with a burn or toxic then the berry will vanish meaning you'll be asleep next turn (I'm fairly sure this is the case). Since Tropius can easily cope with burn/toxic for a turn or two, as well as that paralysis=75% to move whereas being asleep for a turn=0% to move, personally I'd use the berry that solely cures sleep to make Rest more reliable.
  11. maxbarnyard

    maxbarnyard

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    Fair call once again, Benlisted. I think, more likely than not, that there wouldn't be a huge difference between the two berries, but that definitely gives Chesto Berry the edge imo.

    @Adrian: Also, just a quick english issue, "draught" is a different word than "drought". Right now you're saying that your team is the best stall team to come out of a beer tap.
  12. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    dont underestimate sitrus berry it is very overpowered and golurk is usually a safe switch in to stone edge tyranitars and since my tropius has protect which can scout too I can switch in someone else like ninetales.
  13. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    @Benlisted: Harvest renews your berry as soon as it is consumed, and once at the end of the turn. This is the reason why Sitrus Berry sets work because you can abuse Substitute to get two or more Sitrus Berries in one turn. Lum Berry is thus the better option over Chesto because you get healed from all status, including confusion.

    @OP: If Sitrus Berry is working for you then by all means stick with it. Sitrus Harvest is almost impossible to break through unless you have a powerful super effective attack so it is definitely viable and a good strategy.

    Since Tropius is your stalling machine, you should abuse entry hazards. I'm not exactly sure you need Ninetales either. Yes removing an opponent's weather is important but if you are aiming for stall then Sun isn't really helping you much either. It makes your main staller, Tropius, much more vulnerable to HP Fires that every man and his dog are using these days. I would actually suggest keeping Golurk because he brings many useful resistances to your team, use Stealth Rock instead of HP Fighting on Heatran and replace Ninetales with another Ghost: Dusclops.

    Dusclops is an almost unstoppable tank if you play him to his strengths. A set like this can pair with Tropius to be your defensive stalling core:

    -Will O Wisp
    -Toxic
    -Pain Split
    -Rest

    Will O Wisp makes a welcome return since Ninetales is gone and Toxic is a different status to cripple someone with. Pain Split to do damage while Rest will generally be a nasty surprise for enemies who think they have 'beaten' you with a status or think you only have Pain Split for recovery while they continue to suffer from burn or toxic damage. It's an interesting team so far so please keep us updated on how you get on!
  14. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    No, Sitrus Berry recovers 25% health... when compared to 100% with Lum Rest, and it isn't unstoppable. Most Ice-type attacks OHKO it, and if it lives and gets 25% health, it will just die the next turn. I agree with removing Ninetales, though. Chesto Berry over Lum is better because if you use Rest after the Pokemon uses WoW or Toxic, it will take 1 more turn to wake up. And if you breed a Smeargle with Dark Pulse and Earth Power with a girl Hydreigon, it will have both moves. People using Tyranitar can predict you switching to Tropius and use Stone Edge to KO it.
  15. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    Harvest renews berries as soon as they are consumed so Lum Berry is by far the superior option over Chesto. Also the point of Sitrus Harvest is you become invincible with Substitute because Sitrus keeps reactivating until you are over 25% (usually reaches 40% or over). And like any Pokemon you switch if you suspect a powerful super effective attack...

    It also helps if you read previous posts before knocking stuff...
  16. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    I read the previous posts, I just don't agree with them. And Harvest regenerates a berry at the end of the turn, not when it is consumed. And you are assuming that Tropius's depressing speed of 51 will outspeed anyone, especially ice types like Frosslass. And 2 Pokemon on his team resists Ice-Type attacks, so who is he going to switch into that wont take a shitload of damage first? Plus, if the opponent has a Starmie, it can predict the switch in and just Ice Beam, TBolt, or Surf the Pokemon who resist the moves. And the subs aren't invincible with Cloyster running around hitting stuff with it's Ice-type moves.
  17. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    Harvest regenerates a berry as soon as it is consumed. I don't think it can be more clear. The fact that you can get several berries in one turn is the whole reason Harvest Sitrus Stalling is even a strategy.

    Harvest Sitrus has counters and checks of course but that doesn't stop it being viable and is a good late game staller when checks and counters have been eliminated. Hence my suggestion of a Dusclops to partner Tropius early game to status and stall problem Pokemon.
  18. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    Look, I tested it on PO, and Harvest regenerates a berry at the end of a turn, not right when the berry is used.
  19. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    I have used a Lum Harvest Tropius before and I tested it again just now (with the help of some kind people on PO) and it has two Lum berries in one turn at its disposal. The end result is the same.

    The foe's Kitten used Sludge Bomb!
    It's super effective!
    Tropius lost 150 HP! (37% of its health)
    Tropius was poisoned!
    Tropius ate its Lum Berry!
    Tropius's status cleared!

    Tropius used Rest!
    Tropius went to sleep and became healthy!

    Tropius's gained a Lum Berry thanks to its Harvest!
    Tropius ate its Lum Berry!
    Tropius's status cleared!
  20. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    OK then, but still, Sitrus Berry is useless, as it would work with fast Pokemon, not Tropius.
  21. soviet

    soviet nothin personnel kid

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    If a Pokémon meets the conditions to eat a Berry after Harvest regenerates it, it will immediately consume it, but the Berry will be lost forever. As such, chesto berry would be a superior choice to lum incase you do need to rest after being statused.
  22. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    Really sorry for hijacking the thread into a Lum Berry v Chesto discussion but this has to be cleared up. Here's a scenario:

    Turn 1
    You get statused (e.g. Confusion from Water Pulse), you eat your berry. You get cured.
    You use Rest. You are asleep.
    Berry gets regenerated and you get cured.
    Turn 2
    You get statused (e.g. Confusion from Water Pulse). You have no berry therefore you are still statused.
    You use Rest, you are asleep.
    Berry gets regenerated and you get cured.

    Using a Chesto Berry would mean the Turn 2 scenario plays out everytime because Chesto does not cure Confusion (or any other status effect). Using Lum means Turn 1 you get cured of Confusion (or any Status effect) thus retaining the ability to attack unhindered.

    In both cases the user is never asleep for a whole turn. The user is always cured at the end of the turn. In the interest of helping the OP I will say that Lum Berry is the far better option if he decides to go for Harvest Rest.
  23. maxbarnyard

    maxbarnyard

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    Hydreigon is only in the Dragon egg group, and therefore cannot breed with Smeargle, so it just can't get both moves.

    Also, I think we're overlooking the fact that, simply, his team isn't a stall team. Curse Golurk is still not a good idea since spinblockers are meant to stay around for a while, and this one will just kill itself. I strongly support Dusclops as a spinblocker for its insane bulke with Eviolite and ability to cripple pretty much any non-Fire, non-Guts physical attacker with Will-O-Wisp.

    Additionally, your current Hydreigon and Heatran (still gotta fix that Eruption...) are not synergistic with the idea of stall, since you're having them focus on blowing through opponents. This is all well and good if you have an offensive team and can sustain that kind of offensive momentum, but you just don't and can't. Stall is about being a brick wall that stands and survives until the opponent is killed by hazards, shuffling, and status. You're getting there with Tropius, but beyond it and Tentacruel, the rest of your team is just not stall.

    Totally true, and one of the reasons you just don't want/need sun. In fact, rain might help you moreby mitigating that Fire weakness. Things to consider. Also, if you're going to use a Hidden Power on Heatran, really, just use Ice. Your team would probably benefit from an Ice move and your Heatran would benefit from having that Speed IV back. That and Fighting gives pretty redundant coverage for Heatran, since it only really adds SE hits on Normal and Dark to Heatran's repertoire, and it doesn't really need those. Against Tyranitar you should just hit it with Earth Power on the switch, see how much it does, and go from there.
  24. Aboithagameboi

    Aboithagameboi

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    While you're correct (TTar can't withstand anything even remotely related to a Fighting Type attack), this is assuming that Golurk outspeeds Tyranitar. It doesn't and looking at Tyranitar's attack and Golurk's Defenses, I don't think Golurk can handle a Crunch on a switch-in, then another Crunch on his next turn. Hell, I'm not completely sure it would survive the first one. If I meet a Golurk on PO, I'll try to send TTar against it and see how it fares, and get back to you with it.
  25. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    sitrus berry is extremely useful it can make tropius spam substitute till toxic kills it and sitrus berry usually goes first before I even use a sub.

    I have chose heatran cause he has a 4x resist to ice immunity to fire and a 2x resistant to flying.

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