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My First Attempt at OU

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Polarr, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. Polarr

    Polarr

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    45
    Hi guys this is my first time making a team and I am still learning. Any constructive criticism and advice is appreciated Thanks!

    Edit: Changed Mixed Dragonite to Mixed Salamence because it hits harder :)



    [​IMG]
    Metagross @ Lum Berry
    Clear Body
    Adamant
    224 HP/44 Spe/240 Atk
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Bullet Punch
    -Explosion

    One my favourite guys of all time. He sets up Stealth rock in the beginning. Very few common leads can OHKO it also making him a good lead. He can also take a hit from those fire moves like inferape,heatran, and Jirachi leads and finish him off earthquake. He can also used for late game sweeping if needed. Explosion is used to take down Hippowdon and even do damage to Bronzong


    [​IMG]Salamence @ Life Orb
    Intimidate
    Rash
    16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Draco Meteor
    -Flamethrower
    -Brick break
    -Roost


    This guy is my mix-sweeper and can take many guys down with Draco Meteor guys like swamperts and hippowdon. Flamethrower is there to take care of the steel pokemon such as scizor,bronzong, and skarmory. I am still deciding whether to have roost to heal this guy from the life orb damage and also Stealth rock. Brickbreak to to care of fighting weakness pokemon


    [​IMG]
    Forretress@Shed Shell
    Sturdy
    Careful
    252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 SpD
    -Spike
    -Rapid Spin
    -Payback
    -Toxic Spike
    This guy is a support to my entry hazards and can always spin away my enemies hazards. Shed shell protects me from magnezone's magnet pull so I can switch out. I am still deciding whether to use Spike or toxic spike. Rapid spin again is to take out the hazards. Payback is for blocking ghosts(gengar) from me rapid spinning because this guy is slower.


    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar@ Choice Scarf
    Sand Stream
    Jolly
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Stone Edge
    -Crunch
    -Pursuit
    -Earthquake

    Tyranitar is a major powerhouse and has a choice band which I love. Pursuit is used to to be an effective counter to rotoms, latias, and other dark and psychic and ghost pokemon. Get rid of lucario, heatran, and inferape. Crunch is used on mainly gengar. Stone edge can 2OHKO and OHKO scizor.


    Rotom-H @ Leftovers
    Bold
    248 HP / 224 Def / 36 SpD
    -Will-O-Wisp,
    -Thunderbolt,
    -Rest,
    -Sleep talk



    Replaced my vaporeon with this guy because I dont want spinners on the other teams taking down my hazards so i use will o wisp. T-bolt for gyrados. After getting hit I use rest and sleep talk so I dont let people set up.


    Flygon @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly
    Levitate
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Earthquake
    -U Turn
    -Outrage
    -Stone Edge

    I replaced weavile then I decided again scarfed flygon is better. With this guy, he is my revenge killer. U turn is to scout cuz i dont want to get locked out in outrage. Stone edge outrage is for killing stupid salamences :D because this guy outruns them.

    This is my team and please tell me the flaws and what I can do to make it better. Thanks!


    Threat List (Taken from Team Sugarless Girl)





    [​IMG]Scizor: My dragonite's flamethrower can deal with this guy or my T-Tar's stone edge.

    [​IMG]Salamence: I would probably use my weavile and finish him off with Ice shard with choice band.

    [​IMG]Gyarados: I have my vaporeon to finish the job on this guy.

    [​IMG]Rotom- I would probably send out my T-tar to pursuit him to death, then send out my dragonite to draco meteor him.
    [​IMG]Heatran: This guy I dont have a much of a problem because I can also use my metagross since he can take a hit and eq him or even my Vaporeon. My weavile can also low kick his ass.

    [​IMG]Latias: Pursuit from weavile or t-tar.
    [​IMG]Metagross: I have my dragonite that can flamethrower him.

    [​IMG]Lucario: My Metagross can earthquake him, dragonite can flamethrower him, and my weavile can low kick him

    [​IMG] Infernape: My metagross can take a hit from him and earthquake him right away after, or even my vaporeon can surf him.
    [​IMG]Jirachi: I dunno about this guy but metagross' earthquake?
    [​IMG]Gengar: Send in my tyranitar and crunch him to death or even pursuit or forretress using payback
    [​IMG]Swampert: My dragonite can just draco meteor him
    [​IMG]Blissey: my weavile can low kick his ass or even tyranitar can superpower
    [​IMG] send in my tyranitar to pursuit him

    [​IMG]Starmie: Vaporeon can use hp electric and absorb his water attacks then ues t-tar and crunch or pursuit.
    [​IMG]Gliscor: my vaporeon and my weavile can take care of him.
    [​IMG]Vaporeon: Spikes? SR? iunno my own vaporeon can hp electric it?
    [​IMG]: My earthquake from metagross or even my dragonite's flamethrower.
    [​IMG]Kingdra: Dragonite's draco meteor.
    [​IMG]Breeloom: This guy can get smacked by my dragonite flamethrower
    [​IMG]: My dragonite can flamethrower him also or my vaporeon can hp electric him.
    [​IMG] Bronzong: Not a problem explosion or just flamerthrower him
    [​IMG]Celebi: I dunno about this guy my t-tar cna probably handle him.
    [​IMG]Flygon: handled by weavile or even my dragonite's draco meteor.
    [​IMG]Suicune: Only thing i can think of is sr and hp electric by vaporeon
    [​IMG]Jolteon:Jolteon can be kileld by earthquake?
    [​IMG]Empoleon: earthquake by metagross
    [​IMG]Forretress: havnt played one yet but most likely dragonite's flamethrower
    [​IMG]Electivire: Only thing i got is metagross' earthquake
    [​IMG]Togekiss: Finish off with stone edge my t-tar
    [​IMG]Weavile: I dunno about this guy lol metagross' bullet punch and earthquake
    [​IMG]Aerodactyl: This guy can die with my t-tar's stone edge or vaporeon
    [​IMG]Mamoswine: T-tar can kill him with superpower or stone edge
    [​IMG]Snorlax: Kick him to death by weavile or t-tar super power him or even bullet punch by metagross
    [​IMG]Dusknoir: Crunch him or pursuit by t-tar or payback by forretress
    [​IMG]Smeargle: I dunno never faced him.. is he a threat?
    [​IMG]Ninjask: Vaporeon or dragonite flamethrower
    [​IMG]Tentacruel: Vaporeon hp electric or metagross
    [​IMG]Dragonite: kill him with my t-tar stone edge
    [​IMG]Hippowdon: Kill him with my uhm... draco meteor
    [​IMG]Roserade: Send in t-tar and pursuit him
    [​IMG]Porygon-z: T-tar basically ftw
    [​IMG]Cresselia: hoping t-tar can kill it.. this thing pisses me off
    [​IMG]Heracross: My weavile can kill him
    [​IMG]Umbreon: T-tar ?
    [​IMG]Alakazam: T-tar again?




  2. MofoPopo

    MofoPopo

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    Without a Spin Blocker, entry hazards other than stealth rock are kind of worthless. I suggest you change Weavile to Rotom-H, as it can block Rapid Spin, and can Will-O-Wisp all of the Threats that Weavile covered
  3. Polarr

    Polarr

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    Then is there something I can replace forretress with?
  4. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Sorry for the short rate - I'm sleepy. I may have another look tomorrow.

    I think it would be advisable to use a mixed Salamence over Dragonite. He is much more powerful offensively, for a start, but, more importantly, will prevent you from being easily swept by Lucario. After an SD, Extremespeed will finish off weavile and dragonite whilst he will outrun and KO the rest of your team with Close Combat. With intimidate, Mence can easily survive an extremespeed even after an SD, and can KO back. Offensively, his Draco Meteor is much more powerful, and he is faster. The only drawback is the lack of superpower.

    Choice band weavile and tyranitar seems rather like overkill to me. You can only trap so many pokemon. At the very least, you should use a scarf Tyranitar to help with revenge-killing, but I think you should consider replacing weavile. Although you would benefit from a spin blocker, I think that Dr John's suggestion makes you weak to Salamence. Maybe you could try something like an Offensive Suicune, but with enough defense to take a +1 outrage. This would also provide your team with something of a sweeper. You could also consider a fast scarfer such as Latias, whose trick could save you from a last poke suicune or something.

    68 Speed nowadays is fairly redundant on Vaporeon. You might want to consider 12 evs to outrun standard CB scizor, but you are unlikely to outrun skarm with that speed any more, and skarm are running SpDef spreads so you can't touch them. Metagross are also often running more speed than this. I would suggest that you dump the remaining evs into attack or special attack. Similarly, you may find that you meed more than 96 speed on Tyranitar to outrun and 2HKO Skarm with Stone Edge.

    I suggest you keep forretress. You need rapid spin with Dnite (/Mence) and Weavile, particularly given your two choice users. Toxic spikes would be a big help if you opt for Suicune too, and are a big help to Vaporeon. You might even want to consider forgoing explosion for both toxic and regular spikes. Just remember not to set up too many hazards wihtout checking to see if the opponent might have a spinner - you may want to pick your hazard depending upon the opponent.

    Hope I helped, and good luck.
  5. Polarr

    Polarr

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    is there anything else I can replace weavile with other then suicune and latias?
  6. Abutorn

    Abutorn

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    May 16, 2009
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    267
    Hey sup Polarr, I got a message saying you wanted your team rated so here I go. Apperently you made some changes on your team previously, On Forretress, you still haven't decided if you wanted Toxic spikes or Spikes, I recommend Spikes, reason being your team isn't stalling the only pokemon on your team that is would be Vaporeon.

    What I see in your team is that you get swept by Dragon dancing Salamence easy, just by Plus 1. You say in your threat list that you had a weavile, but you don't currently since you changed it to Empoleon. I recommend you change Empoleon because it doesn't really have a use on your team, Scarf Latias seems to fit your team perfectly. Able to take Fire attacks to help Forretress, and just does an amazing job of taking your Salamence nightmare away.

    Latias @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Spd / 252 SpAtt
    Moveset: Draco Meteor, Thunderbolt, Surf, Trick

    You currently don't have a Spin blocker which can just stop the use of Forretress when it continues to get Rapid spinned. What I recommend is you just changing Vaporeon, I know it fits well with Forretress, Definitly Latias will be helping to resist Fire attacks. Vaporeons only use on this team is wish support, I definitly know that It's worth taking out wish support rather then ruining the whole idea of spiking with Forretress. So I'm going to recommend you chang Vaporeon into the common Rotom-H. Though what set I think will be useful for this team is RestTalking set, It's able to status some things and you don't have anything on your team to take the Sleep.

    Rotom-H @ Leftovers
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
    Moveset: Will-O-Wisp, Thunderbolt, Rest, Sleep talk

    I'm sure these suggestions will fix up your team and good luck.
  7. Polarr

    Polarr

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    Im not really a big fan of latias is there any other options? but the rotom H i will switch. I have a question will a rotom be also offensive in a way? to take care of gyrados or something and what can i use to take care of dragons also? :S
  8. corncake22

    corncake22

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
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    Ok I recieved your message and lets get this party started.

    Metagross-Regular lead I see just add Lum berry if you have trouble with spore leads.

    Salamence- I recommend Fireblast over flamethrower because the extra power is usually worth it. Roost is a good idea so salamence doesn't get destroyed by hazards.

    Fortress- Ok this is weird. More defensive on a defensive wall? I don't really think this is great and you need more then one counter to destroy CM latias. Just incase if tyranitar dies. Use this fortress set. Careful natured. Spikes/ToxicSpikes/Payback or EQ depends if you wanna get walled on Luke or latias/Rapid spin. With a EVs of 252hp/44attack/212SpD. This allows latias to always 2 hit a CM latias.

    Tyranitar- I like scarf better but ehh you have wish support so it doesn't really matter.

    Vaporeon-Simple set and its decent.

    Empoleon-Now that fortress is there you get spikes and toxic spikes allowing you to actually have a chance against blissey. Stayzors.

    You have a big DDmence and DDgyarados problem so I recommend instead of Vaporeon switch it with ScarfStarmie. 4hp/252 SpA/252speed. Timid Hydropump or surf/Thunderbolt/Icebeam/Trick. Vaporeon only gives wish support and screws you over. Think about it Luke comes in and now what? Stay in and fail to do anything to it and let it SD or switch and SD ethier way to lose? I recommend scarf tyranitar if you decide to make the change and the shed shell to leftovers on fortress if you do switch. Fortress will need to take hits and get SOME recovery.

    Anyway good luck with your team :D
  9. Polarr

    Polarr

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    So whats better right now A scarf flygon or a scarf starmie
  10. KnightoftheWind

    KnightoftheWind
    is a Past WCoP Winner

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    I'd consider finding something that can counter Swords Dance Lucario, as it can cause some real trouble for your team. You're offering it some excellent oppurtunities to get a Swords Dance in your Tyranitar and Flygon. If Tyranitar gets locked into Stone Edge, Crunch or Pursuit, or Flygon gets locked into Outrage or Stone Edge, Lucario can get a guaranteed Swords Dance since you will not be able to do much damage to Lucario. Close Combat will rip Metagross, Forretress and Tyranitar to shreds, Salamence and Flygon won't like Extremespeed and Rotom-A is easily disposed of by Crunch. With Lucario being one of the most prominent sweepers in the OU metagame, it is advised that you should pack ways to stop Lucario from easily sweeping your team.

    I suggest you use a Choice Scarf on your Tyranitar rather than a Choice Band. Lucario won't be able to sweep effectively when Tyranitar is moving faster than Lucario whilst resisting Extremespeed. Choice Scarf also allows Tyranitar to take on the likes of Latias, Starmie, Azelf and Gengar much more effectively, taking them out before they can outrun Tyranitar and deal some damage to it. With a change in item comes a change in EVs and moves as well. Use an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd. This provides Tyranitar with the ability to outspeed +Speed base 115es and Crunch / Pursuit them for the KO. I also recommend you ditch Aqua Tail for Earthquake. With the drop in power, you're not going to be OHKOing many Ground-types. Earthquake is much more useful, hitting Lucario, as well as Heatran and Infernape.

    You definitely want maximum Speed on your Salamence, so you don't automatically lose against other MixMence and Jirachi, as well as Jolly Lucario and Timid Roserade. I think you'll be much better off with an EV spread of 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe. This lets you speed-tie with opposing base 100s while still hitting very hard with Draco Meteor. You're not missing much with no EVs in HP, so there's not much reason to not run this spread.

    I'd use an EV spread of 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 SpD with a Careful nature on your Forretress. Forretress resists a lot of special attacks such as Draco Meteor and Ice Beam, so investing in Forretress' Special Defense is a wise move. You also can still switch into a variety of physical attackers. With more to switch into, you get more entry hazards and a better functioning team. I also think you should ditch Explosion and run both Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Forretress is very sturdy and can last for a long time, so going boom prematurely can result in the loss of some excellent glue.

    Finally, I recommend ThunderPunch on your Flygon over Stone Edge. Stone Edge isn't exactly the most useful move for Flygon. The only Pokemon it hits that you couldn't hurt badly otherwise are Gyarados and Zapdos. Zapdos is reletively uncommon and has sufficient defense to survive a Stone Edge and Roost off the damage, and easily drain Stone Edge's PP, since you only get 4 Stone Edges against Zapdos. That leaves Gyarados to hit, which ThunderPunch can do nicely otherwise, and you don't have to pray that Stone Edge's subpar accuracy doesn't backfire on you.

    Good luck with your team.
  11. Polarr

    Polarr

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    Does T-tar have to be jolly also then as its nature?
  12. KnightoftheWind

    KnightoftheWind
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    Whoops, forgot to mention that. Yeah, use Jolly.
  13. Polarr

    Polarr

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    Haha ok Thanks ALot :)
  14. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    The team looks very good, so just a few nitpicks. I recommend you to keep Stone Edge on Flygon, since DD Gyarados is already handled by Rotom and SE still does a considerable amount of damage to the most bulky variant. Additionally, Stone Edge can help you revenge kill DD Salamence without having to resort to Outrage, probably the most worrying threat this team could encounter. That said, I would also like you to try out Jolly instead of Adamant. Salamence has several ways to set up (Tyranitar, Forretress, Flygon) and if you happen to face a max. Speed variant, the team could get easily reduced to sashes because none of your Pokémon will be able to revenge kill it. Also, taking into account that between the two Steel-type Pokémon you have in the team, Metagross, is the the guy able to hit Salamence considerably, then force the dragon to Outrage on it will be your only affordable option. But the lead position is something hard to take care of, and Metagross won't always last until late/mid game when Salamence uses to come up. In short, keep Stone Edge and change the nature to Jolly to at least tie in 492 with opposing Salamence.

    On the other hand, let me explain something related to Scarf Tyranitar and SD Lucario. It is true that ScarfTar can perfectly revenge kill SD Lucario, but nowadays there are a lot of Lucario using Bullet Punch instead of the always seen Crunch, and that's something Tyranitar cannot handle no matter what. So play carefully, and try to discover what's Lucario running once you face it; if it uses Crunch or Stone Edge, then T-tar handles it with no problems at all, and if it uses Bullet Punch, go to Rotom, he'll take care of it.

    On Metagross, you can also use Lum Berry instead of Occa, so that you will prevent Roserade from setting up Toxic Spikes (although this type of entry hazards can't even touch the team), and also beat Machamp lead with nos risks of getting hit by the confusion. Any other status move like Will-o-Wisp or T-wave won't be a problem the first turn, so it's great running this Berry on Metagross.

    Good team overall, gl.
  15. Polarr

    Polarr

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    Alrite Thanks Alot ! So my Rotom will take care of gyrados right?
  16. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    Um, I didn't notice you're only using 120 Defense EVs on Rotom, that has to change, use the following: 248 HP / 224 Def / 36 SpD. Same nature and same moves. Rotom-h is attending some notable threats, to name a few: Metagross, Gyarados, Scizor. Since they all attack from the physical spectrum, Rotom needs to invest a lot in Defense, allowing it that way to take hits from all of them better. A simple investment of 120 Defense EVs is not enough to be honest ;)

    Also, you seem not to be familiarized with the damage that a DD Gyarados can score to Rotom, so let me write down a basic calc for you:

    Max. Attack LO Gyarados' +1 Waterfall against Rotom (with the spread I suggested):
    574 Atk vs 336 Def & 303 HP (80 Base Power): 190 - 225 (62.71% - 74.26%)

    As you can see, Rotom does fairly well stopping it. Use it!
  17. Polarr

    Polarr

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    haha THANKS!!!
  18. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Oh by the way, you need to use 252 Speed EVs on ScarfTar. Sorry if this was just an error in the write-up
  19. Polarr

    Polarr

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    lol ok :)

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