My First Team [?? RMT] (FIXED but could still use rating)

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by /B/utterfree, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

    Joined:
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    Being a Smogon novice, I do not know how to get sprites of my Pokemon. Feel free to inform on how I can do this. In any case, my team will be showcased with some experimenting having already taken place via ShoddyBattle.

    Please feel free to constructively critique my team. If other options exist, I'll gladly test said options to see if it can help the group.
    [​IMG]

    1. Objection (Jirachi) @ Expert Belt (6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe) [Steel/Psychic]
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Jolly
    Moveset:
    1. Thunder Punch; Electric
    2. Fire Punch; Fire
    3. Ice Punch; Ice
    4. Zen Headbutt; Psychic / Iron Head; Steel

    Function in the Team

    Initially I had a Butterfree be my Lead. It would 2HKO Aerodactyl with Hidden Power Ice while Focus Sashed (or OHKO Staraptor). But after that Butter would only last long enough to Protect itself from a few attacks and maybe paralyzing one more Pokemon. I decided that Butterfree would be the 7th Pokemon, and it would be the strategist and mascot. :)

    As such, I needed to find someone else to be the Lead. A suggestion told me Jirachi would be a better Lead. I originally had a Metagross in my team but it did not pull its weight. They were both the same typing. I thought, "Hmm... it kinda has the same appeal as Butterfee, but it's better typing as well as much more widespread movepool."

    My Jirachi was very good, but as a Lead it was mediocre. In the end I decided my Lead needed either Taunt, Stealth Rock, or both. Jirachi can still do handsomely in its current build, though.

    Reasons Behind Moveset

    1. I changed its moveset to Stealth Rock instead of Thunder Punch. The results were hit-and-miss. Conclusively, I decided that Swampert should get Stealth Rock instead. Also, it can't be a Paraflinch MixRachi if I don't have Paralysis.

    2. Fire Punch is for all the other Steel-type Pokemon, and then some. Disregard the Timid nature/HP Ground suggestion, for it fails. Not only does changing Jirachi to Jolly mess up the IV system so that my Hidden Power has to be Ice, but with my current MixRachi build, Hidden Power is a fail. Also, I learned that it is unwise to change Jirachi's nature to Timid from the getgo.

    3. Butterfree was going to be my Dragonkiller. However, now that Jirachi can learn Ice Punch, it shall succeed where Butterfree was marginally progressive. Maybe I can OHKO Aerodactyl before it Stealth Rocks.

    4. Both Zen Headbutt and Iron Head are good for STAB and flinch chance. Iron Head is more flexible so Weavile and Tyranitar can be appropriately dealt with, but Zen Headbutt will OHKO Machamp and Infernape if Jirachi is faster.


    [​IMG]
    2. Dragoon (Kingdra) @ Damp Rock (180 HP/252 Atk/78 Spe) [Water/Dragon]
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Adamant
    Moveset:
    1. Rain Dance; Water
    2. Dragon Dance; Dragon
    3. Waterfall; Water
    4. Outrage; Dragon

    Function in the Team

    Swampert was dying too much to Grass-types. I also tried replacing Rhyperior with Dragonite; the results were mixed battlewise. Ultimately, Swampert was being OHKO'd by Grass-types who could stomach the Ice Punch or the Counter back, and Dragonite hated Subpunch Breloom just as much as Swampert.

    And that's why Kingdra is here. He's much better typing (only weak to Dragons, and I don't see Gyarados and others lasting long enough to do much to Kingdra because of Rotom-S, MixRachi, and PorygonZ). I agreed with the build on Smogon except I changed Leftovers to Damp Rock, because rain is very important in maintaining Kingdra's Speed.

    Reasons Behind Movepool
    1. Kingdra has the ability Swift Swim, which doubles its speed in the rain. With Rain Dance, Kingdra will now be much faster and better at sweeping. Protection from Fire-type attacks is also a must for my team because Infernape and Heatran would otherwise massacre Jirachi and company.

    2. Dragon Dance is a setup move that allows Kingdra's Attack to raise and its Speed to go even higher.

    3. Waterfall and Outrage both get STAB and allow OHKOing of almost everything if Kingdra sets up.

    [​IMG]
    3. ScrapBrainZone (Rotom-S) @ Spell Tag (255 SpA, 255 Spe) [Electric/Ghost]
    Ability: Levitate [YES! YES! YES!]
    Nature: Timid
    Moveset:
    1. Air Slash; Flying
    2. Will-o-Wisp; Fire
    3. Thunderbolt; Electric
    4. Shadow Ball; Ghost

    Function in the Team

    Finally, an Electric-type that I can tolerate!

    I already have a wall, so Umbreon's out (BTW, Umbreon should be in BL). Gengar wasn't all that great either, even with Focus Blast, so it's out also.

    Water coverage? Check.
    Decent defenses to go with good Special Attack and Speed? Check.
    Immunity to DynamicPunch Machamp and some variants of MixApe? Check.
    Immunity to Earthquake and Earth Power? Check.
    Immunity to Explosion and Rapid Spin? Check.
    Movepool that I can switch around for experimenting? Eh, sorta check. Rotom, regardless of form, always has 3 moves that it carries. That would be Will-o-Wisp, Thunderbolt, and Shadow Ball.

    I believe this guy is going to be a good one. I only really worry about Dark-types with Rotom, and Rotom-S gives out a bit more.

    Reasons Behind Movepool

    1. Air Slash has a high crit ratio and is helpful against Breloom, Yanmega, and others that might give Swampert or the rest of the team a hard time.

    2. Will-o-wisp will burn Dark-types, Blissey, and Walls down.

    3. Thunderbolt is STAB. With Magnet, it gets an additional damage boost.

    4. Shadow Ball is also for STAB. In terms of different items, Spell Tag can also replace Magnet for a boost on Shadow Ball instead of Thunderbolt.


    [​IMG]
    4. ShadowArmor (Drapion) @ Lum Berry (170 HP/170 Def/170 SpDef)
    Ability: Battle Armor
    Nature: Impish
    Moveset:
    1. Taunt; Dark
    2. Rain Dance; Water
    3. Ice Fang; Ice
    4. Thunder Fang; Electric

    Function in the Team
    A surprise-value-motivated Wall with only one weakness and a few immunities (Toxic Spikes among others), Drapion isn't really seen much in OU as he is UU/BL (BL in my opinion).

    Breloom will assume he can get in on Drapion, and that is when he'll be wrong. Spore will not work because of Lum Berry, and Taunt will prevent usage of Spore and Substitute. It also outwits Ninjask, resisting U-turn as well as preventing it from Substitute/Protect if it switches in.

    Reasons Behind Movepool
    1. Taunt prevents the opponent from setting up, giving Drapion a chance to kill things.

    2. Rain Dance helps with setting Kingdra or Starmie up to finish the opponent's team off.

    3. Ice Fang is for after taunt to kill the usually-Ground-type switch in.

    4. After Taunt, I'd use Thunder Fang, as generally a Gyarados is common in most teams, and other Flyers exist.


    [​IMG]
    5. RideSpinnas (Starmie) @ Mystic Water (255 Spe/255 SpA) [Water/Psychic]
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Nature: Hasty
    Moveset:
    1. Rapid Spin; Normal
    2. Recover; Normal
    3. Surf; Water
    4. Thunder; Electric

    Function in the Team

    Starmie is my RapidSpinner. She can switch in on a Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin it away, and hit hard. As she isn't my Lead, and Rain Dance will be up usually, she can then be already set up to defeat the opponent's team one-by-one.

    Forretress would have been good, except while he can set up his own Stealth Rocks/Toxic Spikes, Starmie can survive longer as well as dent/kill Heatran and Infernape while not worrying about them at all.

    Reasons Behind Movepool
    1. If it weren't for Rapid Spin, Starmie wouldn't be on my team at all. She can do all this cool stuff as a Special Sweeper, but can't set up her own Stealth Rocks as Forretress would have. At least she doesn't have to commit suicide to do much else.

    2. Starmie is likely to be switched in during a Stealth Rock. While she Rapid Spins it away and takes some damage, she can recover it.

    3. Surf, while powered by rain, Mystic Water, and STAB, serve to kill the enemy in one go. Unless it's Vaporeon.

    4. Starmie will likely come on by to kill the Bulky Water with Thunder after Rain Dance has been set. Rain Dance makes Thunder 100% accurate, and it will hit Vaporeon hard.


    [​IMG]
    6. Viking (Togetic) @ Petaya Berry (255 SpA, 255 Spe) [Normal/Flying]
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Modest
    Moveset:
    1. Nasty Plot; Dark
    2. Aura Sphere; Fighting
    3. Air Slash; Flying
    4. Shadow Ball; Ghost / Hidden Power Dark

    Function in the Team
    Ground-type moves massacring PorygonZ wasn't a big issue, but I thought it could be covered. Also PorygonZ is a little on the frail side. While PorygonZ is my favorite Gen 4 Pokemon, as the anime does not butcher him, Togekiss is much better competitively.

    Togekiss also has much higher Special Attack while being similar otherwise in terms of stats. Togekiss is also a Special Sweeper, as Hustle is a very meh ability and I already have Kingdra and Jirachi for Physical Sweeping. Being redundant only hurts the team.

    Reasons Behind Movepool

    1. Nasty Plot is mostly a setup move to increase Togekiss' already-high Special Attack. PorygonZ has this, too, but Tri-Attack had higher priority because of Adaptability.

    2. Aura Sphere will always hit and it will hit Lucario very hard.

    3. Air Slash is for STAB and flinching.

    4. Sadly, Togekiss cannot learn Dark Pulse. Between Hidden Power Dark and Shadow Ball, both will OHKO Gengar and other Ghost-types because of the setup.



    And that's all. Have fun looking at it.

    EDIT 1: I'm testing a few modifications suggested by SlimMan. When I am done with testing, I'll proceed to document my findings. In other words, I'm going to edit this again but use a different ink font to identify what has been changed about the team itself.

    EDIT 2: Modifications made. Thank you, SlimMan and Rediamond.

    EDIT 3: Replaced Umbreon with Rotom-S, Swampert with Kingdra, Rhyperior with Honchkrow, and Gallade with Forretress. Jirachi also got demoted from Lead to one of the five people on bench should anything go wrong, with Forretress being my Lead now.

    EDIT 4: Replaced PorygonZ with Togekiss, Honchkrow with Drapion, and Forretress with Starmie.

    EDIT 5: Why would I lock Togekiss with Choice Specs? Woe is me...
  2. Rediamond

    Rediamond

    Joined:
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    Hi, here's a quick analysis.
    1: Buterfree? Really? You might want to switch that to a Raichi if you insist on Paralysis, as Jirachi can normally do a better job at leading. I can't give a specific set right now, but you can probably find one.
    2: Swampert's OK, Ice Beam deals more damage than punch. Mirror Coat seems very gimmicky, but if it works, it works.
    3: Everything else looks good.
    I'm not good at identifying threats, so this really isn't a full rate. GL.
  3. SlimMan

    SlimMan

    Joined:
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    I know you want to keep Butterfree, but you need a lead that can set up Sr/Taunt to prevent SR/be an anti-lead, and I don't see Butterfree doing any of those things. I won't give suggestions though, as I'm not the best person to ask. I just can't see how Butterfree performs at all in OU.

    Definitely Counter on Swampert, though Waterfall should be on for STAB. Perhaps replacing Ice Punch. Try a bulky Swampert so you'll get more out of Counter. 252 defense EVs, 252 HP EVs, 4 attack EVs. If you're really feeling it, go for Leftovers and Impish Nature.

    Umbreon, to do anything as a team member, should be able to kill something. Try this set, though others may suggest better ones:
    Toxic
    Mean Look
    Wish
    Confuse Ray
    Toxic+Confusion really annoys people, and they can't fix it due to Mean Look. Then you just start Wishing, so that you're fine while they die.

    Gallade seems like a weird choice to me, but I'll go with it. Try Close Combat over X-Scissor for better coverage and STAB. Otherwise, it looks fine to me.

    On Rhyperior, try another Impish Nature so that you'll only lose Sp attack. Every little bit of defense counts, and you don't want to lose any Sp defense. Also, put on Stone Edge over Body Slam for both more power and STAB. If you want to keep X-Scissor over CC on Gallade, give Rhyperior Hammer Arm intsead of Thundrpunch. You need fighting somewhere.

    For PZ, definitely Timid Nature. Sp attack is high already, and it's vital for PZ to go first. The extra speed helps A LOT. The ability should be Adaptability, as that gives Tri Attak a base power of 240, including STAB, all the time! That's stronger than a super effective Tbolt or Ice Beam! Dark Pulse is my choice over HP Fighting, as the ability to OHKO Gengar is invaluable on any team.

    I gotta go, so that's all for now, but I'll rate more later.
  4. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    I see. Suicide is not fun, especailly when it involves my favorite Pokemon. Funny thing about Butter doing OU stuff; my team didn't have a specific tier as Butterfree is NU and I have a few BL mons. If it's OU, it's probably Pert's fault.

    I guess the bulk would help survive Grass-types. I thought of Ice Punch as invaluable so it could slay Grass-types like Tangrowth.

    No problem. Umbreon's movepool was the first thing I probably would've tweaked anyway. Now I guess it can pull its weight against non-Steels.

    Initially I had an Infernape in the group. However, Gallade has less weaknesses and a more diverse movepool for coverage.

    I had toyed around with Natures. I guess Impish works better.

    Sp. Atk for PZ is monstrous, I agree, and it could definitely use more Speed by the looks of things. Adaptability sounds fine to me.

    No problem. I look forward to it.
  5. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    /bump, changes are done and I've actually been much more successful with said changes.
  6. SalTheThief

    SalTheThief

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    Take focus sash off Swampert and replace it with leftovers. Mid-game sashes get snapped most of the time anyway.
  7. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    Your team looks really good to me, /B/utterfree. It appears to be a winner. But let me make a suggestion on Jirachi.

    Grass Knot is special, which probably shouldn't be there on Jirachi. Try Try Iron Head there. It gets Flinch hax a lot, and STAB. Perhaps Zen Headbutt for the other STAB and a Machamp counter. Your choice, since the base power is the same. Also, no team can afford to be without Stealth Rock, so perhaps replace Thunderpunch. The only type you've lost coverage over so far is water, but that's not a huge problem, as there are very few water-type leads anyway. If these changes seem weird with your current set, try TrickScarf Jirachi. It's Jirachi with a Choice Scarf and
    Trick
    Iron Head
    Steath Rock
    U-turn

    This set forces the oppponent to use their first move every time, usually locking them into SR. Then you use SR. Then you go for Flinch hax with Iron Head. U-Turn is for scouting purposes. It's your lead, but TrickScarf Jirachi works very well. Give it a try.

    The last thing is that a Timid Nature lowers Attack, which you don't want. Try Jolly. It still raises speed, but lowers Sp Attack instead. Sal gave a good suggestion, too. Swampert is very hard to OHKO, so the Sash won't help you much. Go with Leftovers.

    It's early in the morning where I am, so if I missed anything, I'll catch it later. Good luck with your team, /B/utterfree! :)
  8. Azlanslayer

    Azlanslayer

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    I will be using this style of rate, since its better for you. Comments in black(not green). And, its a short Rate.

    Yeah, i will be posting one more, which is much more better. I'm just having a headache right now. ( I really have so much headache this days)
  9. R.B.G.

    R.B.G.

    Joined:
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    Short Rate - Swampert doesn't need a Sash, it's bulky enough to take plenty of hits, I assure you. No one on my team can safely OHKO it.
  10. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    Not even a Grass Knot-er?

    Hmph, Umbreon may be my weakest link. I've had to fix its movepool many times too many to make it serve purpose.

    1. I've considered a Shuckle to replace it, but I'd need other walls to help Shuck deal with Water, Rock, and Steel mons. My team doesn't need too much tinkering aside from Umbreon at the moment.

    2. Hmph, I lack Fire and I lack Grass, if I wanted to be traditional. Being only intermediate, I will have to research Fire walls (no pun intended), and I'm certain I don't really know many Grass walls. Venusaur will be helpful in absorbing Toxic Spikes and poison immunity. However, then a Flying type could rip through it and Gallade almost effortlessly. Torterra has similar issues, and it's weak to Toxic Spikes.

    3. Dragonite seems like it could replace Umbreon, and hold its own against Infernape (it's a Gen 4 ripoff of Blaziken, yet it has a slightly better movepool). Dragonite is one of my favorites after Butterfree and Parasect.
  11. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    /bump, even more changes.

    Umbreon is now a Rotom-s. Finally, an Electric type that I can admire!
  12. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey I got your message, I could definitely give this team a major overhaul but I can see that you wan't some creativity, and changing 3+ Pokemon is pretty boring. Anyways I'm sure experience is a good teacher. So I'll mostly just nitpick.

    On Swampert, I've never seen Counter but it looks fun, he can certainly take a hit which is both good and bad for the strategy, but w/e. Anyways Ice Beam is probably better than Waterfall, Stab is nice and all but you get the opportunity to hit dragons and has great synergy with ground. Water + Ground is resisted by a lot. Of course you'd also have to change the nature to Relaxed, but if you don't want to do that for whatever reason, Avalanche will work fine.

    I don't know why you have Dark Pulse on Rotom-s, Shadow ball hits the exact same things super effectively and is resisted by less common things (Dark is resisted by Fighting, Dark and Steel, Ghost Dark, Normal and Steel, and obviously normal types are less common than fighting). But of course the biggest reason is that Rotom gets STAB on Shadow Ball.

    Scope Lens on Gallade is pretty unreliable in my opinion. Try running LO or Expert Belt instead if you want a reliable power boost.

    Anyways that's a good start, sorry I don't have the time for a full rate and really just playing will teach you a lot. Good luck!
  13. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    Right now I feel I should replace Rhyperior with Dragonite because I already have coverage against Electric-types and having both it and Swampert KO'd because of Grass-type attacks is just plain sad.

    Rhyperior is one of my favorite Gen 4 Pokemon, but it's starting to drag my team down.

    Avalance. Cool. I initially had Ice Punch for Swampert as a move. I might revert back to the Ice Punching.

    I see. Well my initial build catered to Shadow Ball with STAB and Spell Tag. I might do that again, but I think Thunderbolt is cooler to improve with Magnet and STAB.

    Dark Pulse was mostly a toss-up between PorygonZ and Rotom-S.

    Expert Belt would be cool if not for possible Item Clause. Life Orb seems like a good idea, though. Hopefully the life drain doesn't hinder the strategy.

    Thanks. I look forward to the full rate.
  14. Azlanslayer

    Azlanslayer

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    Alright, i'm back. Hopefully you will listen to my changes

    Threats
    SD Lucario, SD/NP/Mix Infernape, DD Gyarados, Subspilt Gengar, Breloom, Scizor,

    How they are Threats
    Lucario could come in on Jirachi's Ice Punch, forcing you to switch while he SD's can start sweeping your whole team. The only counter is Jirachi. Infernape really set-up on this team, scaring off Porygon-Z as well as when Jirachi is locked into a move, starts to NP/SD and sweep. Gyarados set-ups, Ice Fang/Stone Edge Dragonite, Waterfall spamming at Rotom/Porygon-Z/Swampert, Earthquake for Jirachi. Subspilt Gengar causes you to switch, Shadow Ball Gallade/Rotom/Dragonite/Jirachi/Swampert and Focus Blast Porygon-Z. Breloom beats this team. Again, when Jirachi is locked to a move, Breloom comes in, Spore, Sub, Focus Punching/Seed Bomb everything in your team. Even Dragonite takes a lot from Focus Punch. Scizor beats this team one-on-one when Rotom is down, Jirachi can't counter since Heatran is usually in the Team with Scizor.

    Solutions
    Jirachi without Iron Head is weird, since Iron Head > Zen-Headbutt. Iron head can flinch hax the opponent like no other Pokemon can do. Iron Head beats Aero, Machamp (with hax), Azelf and more without even switching, but you must rely on hax. Change Jirachi's Ev Spread to 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe.Use Defensive Rotom-H over your current one, its much more better at taking hits, as well as countering. Rotom-H @ Leftovers | Levitate | Bold | 252 Hp / 168 Def / 88 Spe | Overheat or Pain Spilt / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Will-O-Wisp. Moveset is self-explanatory, Overheat for Scizor/Lucario or Pain Spilt is for recovery. Others are simple. Starmie can go in this team. Your team needs a nape counter, as well as a rapid spinner. My advice is to replace Gallade for Starmie, since Starmie have more coverage than Gallade. Derp, Derp, Gallade is frail too. If not, Dragonite is going to be hurt when he enters the game. Here is the set: Starmie @ Life Orb | Natural Cure | Timid | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe | Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Surf / Rapid Spin. BoltBeam gives awesome coverage, the only thing resists it is Lanturn. The only counter to Breloom is CELEBI, yeah. Well, you could replace Porygon-Z for Defensive Celebi. Set? here Celebi @ Leftovers | Natural Cure | Bold | 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe | Grass Knot / Thunder-wave / Recover / Hp Fire or Ice. Anyways, you can replace Swampert for Heatran, that makes a F/W/G core. Dragonite wants Life Orb and the Ev Spread of 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe. Moveset of Dragon Dance / Outrage / Earthquake / Roost or Thunderpunch or Fire Punch


    Good Luck.
  15. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    Hmm... let's have a look.

    Threats
    I wonder about some of those. Breloom seems to give me the most trouble out of all these dudes (my only counter before I replaced Rhyperior was Rotom-S's Air Slash. MixApe tends to be hit or miss. Good god Choice items aren't on my mons because if they were THEN these guys would massacre my team because of locking.

    If he SD's then I use Fire Punch. I don't have Choice Band on Jirachi, or else this would probably be true.

    Hmm... if he uses NP then I might be in trouble should Zen Headbutt not OHKO Nape. Otherwise I probably would not send PorygonZ to deal with Nape.

    I haven't had a problem with Gyarados as usually a Thunderpunch or Rotom-S can kill it fine.

    Hmm... I can see where this might be a problem should Gallade's Psycho Cut / Jirachi's Zen Headbutt not follow through first.

    I whole-heartedly agree with that. It's the one of the many reasons I replaced Rhyperior.

    Jirachi wouldn't be locked to a move unless he got Trick'd. That's only happened twice in the many battles that have taken place.

    You being more skilled than me, I cannot disagree.

    Well... maybe. Usually Rachi slaughters Scizor before the player even brings Heatran. But I guess being doubly prepared isn't so bad.

    Solutions

    Iron Head and Zen Headbutt both do flinching. But I suppose Iron Head is more flexible, especially against Tyranitar. The EV Spread might be put into consideration.

    Well, to counter Lucario like you said, Overheat is a derp. The other moves are almost identical to the ones on Rotom-S. If both Gengar and Rotom-H use Pain Split problems would also arise.

    I do see some potential, but someone can switch in on Overheat and then NP MixNape can give it trouble.

    Hmm... Rapid Spin. Worthy of consideration. I do love Gallade's movepool and how helpful it has been, though. I will also check other Rapid Spinners, just to be sure.

    I'm surprised Lapras wasn't in my original roster. Rain Dance/Thunder/HydroPump would be good, and then an additional move like Sing or Ice Beam would help the momentum of the team. Or Kingra. Maybe Dragonite will be replaced with Kingdra.

    I've seen F/W/G cores. In fact, several of my teams had it. The win ratio was 1:1. In fact, originally I replaced Infernape with Gallade and Sceptile with Rhyperior because both were not pulling their weight or dying too quickly.

    Regarding Celebi and Leftovers, there's more-than-likely an ItemClause half the time, so the Leftovers would die. (I do play on a lot of ShoddyBattle servers to test my team out...)

    This one seems to be the most "I'll do it" alongside the Iron Head one. Life Orb will help with damage, and more HP's always good EVwise. Roost might be fine to replace Aerial Ace, as Breloom seems to outspeed Dragonite a lot. Dragon Dance might replace Thunderpunch, as Jirachi already has it, and for Water coverage there's Rotom-S anyway. Brick Break would counter DualScreeners, but then again Earthquake spam might be fine.


    Thanks. For now, I'll change a few things about Dragonite and Jirachi. My guys seem to be really good at outkilling the opponent's mons, just those few losses to a Heatran with HP Grass or Breloom got me thinking of replacing Rhyperior with Dragonite. And now I'm semi-thinking Kingra > Dragonite, simply because of better typing among other things.
  16. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    /bump; several changes of which to make the team still able to be rated.

    1. At this point the entire roster has been changed. First from Butterfree to Jirachi, then from Umbreon to Rotom-S, then from Rhyperior to Starmie, then Swampert to Kingdra, then from Gallade to Drapion, and then conclusively PorygonZ to Togekiss. In addition, Drapion is now the lead instead of Jirachi.

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