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My generic Ubers Rain team

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Shaymin 492, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Shaymin 492

    Shaymin 492

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    Hi I'm Shaymin 492 from PS. This is my first RMT (yay?), but I'm sorry if you feel the descriptions are too short (they probably are lol). I peaked at 1996 ACRE on the ladder with this team, which isn't much considering how bad the ladder is, but I guess it's still okay. This is basically a generic offensive rain team, so yeah, onto the team.


    [​IMG]
    Turtle Soup (Dialga) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Pulse


    I chose Dialga because of its ability to set up rocks, cripple stuff with T-Wave, and the ability to one shot Ferro and Forretress after rocks. This beats most leads aside from Deoxys-A and LO Draco Dialga, which I've only seen finalninja use. Thunder Wave has great synergy with Specs Kyogre, crippling bulkier Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and Lugia so Kyogre can kill them later. This normally holds Custap Forretress to one hazard, as Dragon Pulse normally doesn't get Forretress in Custap range and Dialga can then use Fire Blast.

    [​IMG]
    Lamb Chop (Arceus) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Force


    From my experience, this is an excellent late-game sweeper and tears most newer players apart. SD is for boosting its Attack to dangerous levels, Extreme Speed is for taking out anything that doesn't resist or is immune to it, EQ is for Ferro and Dialga, and Shadow Force kills Giratina at +2 with some prior damage. This also serves as a really shabby defensive CM Latias counter, but I think I need a better one because I'm pretty weak to it. The 168 Spe is for speed creeping base 90's and max speed Rayquaza. Even thought it's rare, it ends my sweeps a lot so I decided to put more speed in.

    [​IMG]
    Clam Chowder (Kyogre) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Thunder
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam


    Kyogre sets up rain for my team and is insanely powerful with Specs and a Modest nature. To give you an idea of how powerful it is, Surf can OHKO most 252 HP Arceus (not very common, I know) 62.5% of the time after rocks in Rain. Water Spout OHKO's 252 HP/192 SpD T-Tar in sand, and that's after sandstorm damage. Also, Wobbu is OHKO'd 56.25% of the time in Rain after SR by a Surf. Pretty impressive, huh? Oh yeah, and the EV's are for speed creeping Lugia so Roost won't remove the flying type, getting OHKO'd by Thunder after rocks.

    [​IMG]
    Chocolate Cake (Giratina) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Sleep Talk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Dragon Tail
    - Rest


    Giratina earns a slot on my team for being able to tank physical attacks and counter RP Groudon nicely. +4 Shadow Claw can't OHKO on Max Attack EKiller (non LO), even after rocks. Dragon Tail removes the boosts it has accumulated and if Arceus is the last Pokemon, Will-O-Wisp can burn (hopefully). Also, this counters physical sweepers such as Terrakion very nicely, as Will-O-Wisp renders them trash, and this can stall out Ho-Oh.

    [​IMG]
    Baked Salmon (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Draco Meteor


    Scarfing Palkia puts it at a handy speed so it can revenge kill Genesect, and Draco Meteor's sheer power will dent anything neutral to it and 2HKO most Giratina, which are generally pretty annoying. The Scarf allows it to outspeed most Pokemon, making it great for late-game cleanup. In addition to serving as a great revenge killer, this is a nice Kyogre counter as you can switch in on predicted Surfs and use Thunder, which is a 2HKO normally. However, this is sort of weak and misses out on some OHKO's so I'm thinking of changing this but I don't know where to put in the other scarfer.


    [​IMG]
    Diced Durian (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 56 Def / 252 HP / 200 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes


    Ferro is on my team because I realized I needed Spikes and something to deal with the blobs. I use this as a bulky pivot a lot taking Dragon attacks and then switching to either Kyogre or Palkia, depending on the situation. Ferro is pretty good at getting Spikes down (I'm getting 2-3 layers normally). Leech Seed can really mess with Giratina and the pink blobs, and Power Whip hurts the weather inducers, giving me a greater chance of winning the weather war. Also, this thing provides T-Wave support so Kyogre can rip them apart later.



    I'd like to thank Sweep for suggesting Dialga over Scarf Skymin, which improved my win/loss greatly and finalninja243 for helping me test this team. Oh yeah, and SnoopingGil, who I shamelessly ripped off the nicknames from.

    Threat List (so far incomplete):

    Defensive CM Latias: Gosh, these are annoying. I normally go to Arceus and get an SD first and then kill it with an Extreme Speed. If Arceus is somehow dead, I lose almost my whole team.

    EKiller: If I let Giratina take too much damage and Kyogre is under about 85% health or EKiller is LO/Silk Scarf, I'm dead.

    Ferrothorn: If I see this, I normally don't let Dialga die since I know Fire Blast will come in handy. If Dialga is dead however, it becomes a real pain and I have to phaze it with Giratina and let the hazard damage accumulate.

    Custap Forretress: Not much, I Dragon Pulse first so it won't get into Custap range and then Fire Blast.

    Replays (incomplete as well):
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-51794327 (good one vs. sweep)

    IMPORTABLE: http://pastebin.com/069EmRnb
  2. ogasian

    ogasian

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    455
    Hey man, really nice team you have! IMO, Shadow Force is simply too easy to play around, so I would replace it with Shadow Claw. Since you have Lum Berry, you do not really need to fear getting burned by Giratina-A, and offensive Giratina Origin is OHKO'ed by Shadow Claw any way. To deal with your CM Latias weakness, either use Giratina-O over Giratina-A or use Roar over Dragon Tail. Girtina-A's Dragon Tails are piss weak, and Ho-Oh sets up all over you. If you are using Giratina-o, the use this set:

    Giratina-O@Griseous Orb
    Levitate
    252 spattck/248 attack/8 speed
    Naughty

    Draco Meteor
    Dragon Tail
    Shadow Sneak
    Willo-O-Wisp/Outrage

    While not nearly as bulky as Gira-A, Gira-O has much more offensive presence and can threaten Latias with its STABS and can still function as a one time check to E Killer. It can also take on those pesky Ho-Oh's that can sweep your team, and helps win the weather war vs. Groudon.

    Finally, use Hydro Pump or Spacial Rend over Fire Blast on Palkia. Being locked into Fire Blast, especially in rain is not exactly the best thing, and Ferro already takes about 38 percent from Hydro Pump.
    gl!
  3. rileydelete

    rileydelete

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    324
    Your team looks cool, I like the use of Thunder-Wave Dialga :)

    By looking at your team though, I do notice several things.
    • 1) You have no way of dealing with hazards. If someone sets up Stealth Rock or Spikes, they're going to stay on your side for the rest of the match. Deoxys-S is a particular concern; it can set up multiple hazards, and there's nothing you can do about it.
    • 2) Scarf Palkia is a good Pokemon, but it loses a lot of KO potential with a Choice Scarf. The great thing about Palkia is that its base speed lets it outrun nearly every Uber that doesn't have 252 EVs in a speed stat that's over 100. From experience, Palkia actually doesn't need a scarf to get its kills, it can devastate Pokemon with Choice Specs, or use a Lustrous Orb to hit hard and switch moves. Should you see a Genesect, often a Giratina can switch into all but a boosted Ice Beam, and fire off a Will-O-Wisp.
    • 3) As you noted, if Giratina is down, E-killer rips through your team. Why not give another Pokemon a phasing move as a back up measure. CM Kyogre with Roar or Dragon Tail Dialga could help. CM Kyogre can actually hit as hard as Specs after a boost.
    • 4) Watch out for CM Fightceus, it can dent every single one of your Pokemon
    Overall, cool team. Good luck laddering :D
  4. Shaymin 492

    Shaymin 492

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
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    thanks, I will try out the changes you've suggested when I have time (I have to go sleep now)
  5. Edgar

    Edgar
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a SPL Winner
    Moderator

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    Try Gyro Ball > Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn
  6. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

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    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    606
    Yeah it's a pretty stereotypical team lol. My advice would be to use this Giratina-Origin in place of your current Giratina-A, which is killing your momentum and providing very little offensive presence.

    Tina (Giratina-Origin) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 220 Atk / 248 Def / 40 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Magic Coat
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak

    This stallbreaks to an extent and gives you a nice backup revenge killer for dangerous stuff like Mewtwo, Latios, and weakened Ghost Arceus. Magic Coat is obligatory to deal with Deoxys-S (which you have nothing for, barring Ekiller which doesn't want to lead versus anything), Will-o-wisp ensures a slow and painful death for Ferrothorn as it's overcome by Magic Coat Spam+Burn Damage, and Dragon Tail/Shadow Sneak is incredibly cool lategame. This is the bane of a fair amount of sun teams if you can get rid of their Ho-oh, as it beats several things that are commonly seen alongside Groudon.
  7. Donkey

    Donkey

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    531
    Sick team man, Swords Dance Arceus-Normal really tops it off
  8. Shaymin 492

    Shaymin 492

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    hmmm If I change Giratina to Giratina-O won't I be a little RP Groudon weak? How's changing Ferro to Skarm and Giratina to Kabutops? Oh yeah and I changed palk to lustrous
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  9. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
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    Shaymin, Rock Polish Groudon isn't especially common, and it can't really breathe versus this team. Giratina-Origin checks Fire Punch variants, and Ferrothorn can take a hit from Dragon Claw variants and Leech Seed it. Also, the only thing it's forcing out is Dialga, meaning it won't be setting up at all.

    If you're running Lustrous Palkia, then you'll need a revenge killer of some sort.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  10. ogasian

    ogasian

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    Jul 28, 2013
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    Gira O is immune to earthquake, RP Groudon's main stab. And even if he rins Dragon Claw, Gira can live and do massive damage with Draco or Willo him.
  11. Shaymin 492

    Shaymin 492

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
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    so what should I do? Change Giratina to Giratina-O? then won't I be ekiller weak? also, what should I use as my revenge killer?
  12. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

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    Wait what..... Physically Defensive Giratina-Origin isn't Ekiller-weak. Also Scarfkia works fine on the team I think, but you could drop Ferrothorn for Genesect and keep your Lustrous Palkia.
  13. Shaymin 492

    Shaymin 492

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    hmm I might make another RMT soon
  14. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    Messages:
    1,416
    Saw your VM, and I can see a few things that would help this team.

    For Dialga, I suggest moving the 4 SpDef and 8 HP EVs to Speed to speed creep a ton of other base 90s, including other Dialga, allowing you to beat them 1 on 1, then based on how much health you have and what they send out next, you can then T Wave them AND get Rocks up after that. An example would be beating a lead then the opponent going to a Lugia and if not expecting T Wave, probably won't Sub (not saying Sub is the best thing for a Lugia) then you can cripple it and get up Rocks to further annoy it.

    Arceus may destroy newer players, but if you want to get higher on the ladder or battle better people, you will need it to destroy better people. To synergize well with Kyogre, I suggest you change Arceus to a Choice Scarf Terrakion which would do more to opposing Dialga, ExtremeKiller, Ho-oh and would be more then enough to help your Rayquaza problem.

    Kyogre's only problem is you don't need to outpseed Lugia to Thunder it, since a Water Spout does more and Surf does only a little less. Just have enough to speed creep other base 90s since outspeeding Lugia isn't worth it. Give him 12 Speed EVs and put the rest in HP

    With the previous changes, Giratina is no longer neccesary. Having a spinblocker on this team causes you to give up too much momentum to be worth it, especially if Ferrothorn is changed. This frees up a teamslot, which I will get to after the others

    Now you don't need Scarf Palkia freeing you up to either change it or change its set. I would make Palkia Specs or Lustrous Orb. This means you choose between a wallbreaker or wallbreaker with 20% less power (yes it is 20, Specs is 150% of original power, Lustrous Orb assuming a STAB move is 120%, and 120/150 = 80/100) and the ability to bluff a Scarf.

    With Ferrothorn being your only "wall" you would probably want reliable recovery, though there aren't many (good) walls that synergize well with this team while also having recovery and Spikes unless you want Deoxys-D (lol, and he still has bad synergy)

    On the Giratina point, this spot is what you could use to form a solid defensive core with Ferrothorn, or replace Ferrothorn to make it a better core. These are all choices but since there isn't much to improve anymore, maybe put a Banded Genesect over Giratina and keep Ferro as it is.
  15. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Between Ferrothorn and Giratina, the team has resistances/immunities to 14/17 types and no shared weaknesses, status absorption, entry hazards, spinblocking, phazing and status, but they do not form a solid defensive core? I mean, sure, they cannot cover the entire metagame, and some wallbreakers give them hell, but that's what wallbreakers are supposed to do.

    Also, Extremekiller works everywhere on the ladder. It's probably the main reason Sweep was able to top the ladder with a team featuring Charizard.

    Skarmory > Ferrothorn and Kabutops > Giratina is not a good idea, as you definitely want a spinblocker whenever using multiple hazards.

    As for the team, I support replacing Giratina with Giratina-O, as the longevity and status absorption is somewhat less important on this team, while Giratina-O is better for momentum, more hazard resilient (which is very important for teams with no anti-hazard measures), has the handy Ground immunity and generally has a lot of utility. I support the set Steelskitty proposed, although Will-O-Wisp can be replaced if you like.

    I also dislike Choice Scarf Palkia on rain teams, as it tends to give Ferrothorn too many free turns (and predicting with Fire Blast is extremely risky, as Palkia becomes immense set up fodder for virtually anything when locked into Fire Blast in the rain), and rain teams struggle with Ferrothorn a lot as it is. However, I'm reluctant to support Steelskitty's suggestions, as the team would simply be transformed into this (not that it isn't a very good team, just that it already exists).

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