I think it's possible that the reason the pokemon franchise focuses more on the power of legendary pokemon and strays away from the sciency genetic modification/cloning part of kanto is that genetic modification and cloning are controversial themes and could lead to the condemnation of pokemon by extremely religious organizations (and this goes for many science fiction themes not just the unnatural organisms thing). And that would lead to a lot less parents allowing their kids to play pokemon.
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SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon
- Thread starter stage7_4
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Pokemon isn't a stranger to controversy.
And also it's not like they were supporting cloning, it was just a story tool to explain why Mewtwo exists. If anything Mewtwo's is yet another aesop of man playing
Actually the Vatican said Pokemon was an okay series to let kids play. No Satan in sight...
... at least when they made the announcement...
The key word was "right-wing fringe". I wouldn't call the Vatican "fringe".Actually the Vatican said Pokemon was an okay series to let kids play. No Satan in sight...
... at least when they made the announcement...
Then again, Giratina's a weird thing. I don't believe Giratina's actually fully evil when you compare what it does in the games and the anime. The anime version of Giratina is just pissed that Dialga and Palkia messed up his dimension. The game version also only does things when it's bros Dialga and Palkia are captured and are trying to mess up the whole universe. It's violent, but I think it's violent in the way that it just loses its temper very quickly and does not let go of its anger. Sort of like a Primeape...but one with world destroying powers. So, Arceus just chose to lock Giratina away not exactly to punish it but to try to give it some peace and quiet and rest away from things that will cause it problem. The only time it comes out is when stuff becomes so world-destroying that even Giratina feels ripples in its own universe.
If arceus was the original pokemon and did create dialga and palkia, why did it create giritina? He seems to serve no practical purpose, so why Was he created, especially if he is supposedly evil? Supposedly he represents anti-matter, but that hasn't been actually proven for sure to be a thing and it's purpose can only be speculated (I'm not saying I don't think it exists, and yes, I know there is evidence of it) so unlike dialga with time and palkia with space, he really has no purpose. And if you don't believe arceus created the trio, there is an event in HGSS where arceus creates an egg of the three, giving proof that he, in all likeliness, created the trio.
Ah, well I think those fringed groups would probably have better things to be offended by and conspiracies to chase their tail after then a kids game. Honestly the only such groups Pokemon needs to worry about are the ones who don't like games (though they mostly go after shooters and other triple A or indie games that get popular) or PETA (do I even need to mention the PETA Pokemon games where they endorse Team Plasma?).
Giratina's Role:
Guys, I was only joking about Giratina being a Devil-like character. :P I just remembered all the speculation about it being one with people pointing out it has 3 things of 6 on its body (6 wing spikes, 6 neck braces, 6 legs in Altered Forme; 6 tendrils, 6 neck braces, 6 leg spikes (the two on its tail don't count since they're colored differently)). When Platinum was released it put to bed what Giratina's role was.
Like Dialga and Palkia, Giratina was created alongside them so that it may maintain a vital part of the cosmos. But while Dialga controlled time and Palkia controlled space, what Giratina was given to control wasn't quite the same thing. For their to be balance in the universe there had to be a place where time and space were warped (think of it as where the seams of the universe are hidden so no one can mess or, worst, untangle them). Now such an importance place needs a guardian to ensure the balance of the universe remains in tact, and this is why Giratina exists. Representing anti-matter, Giratina is much like the Distortion World as it seems to be able to defy the laws of physics in its Origin Forme (the reason it needs to switch forms upon coming to the real world so that it can become stable, unless it has part of the Distortion World to absorb power from). From the Distortion World, Giratina watches the normal world from a place unseen to ensure cosmic balance is not disturbed by man. When Cyrus was using Dialga's and Palkia's power to warp time and space in Platinum, it was probably also disturbing parts of the Distortion World so Giratina intervened dragging the one responsible to the Distortion World to cut him off from the power he were using.
The very event you referenced specifically calls out Giratina as the master of antimatter when you step into the circle to choose it as the one Arceus creates for you. Giratina isn't evil, it's not even Dark type. (evil type in Japan) Violent, yes, but not evil. It really doesn't like things threatening its home, and while it doesn't have the power to directly stand against the masters of time and space together, by taking Cyrus away it likely also shattered the Red Chains he was using to force them to do his bidding and so stop and return to their own pocket dimensions.
I have an interesting subject about humans in the pokeverse: where did WE come from?
The best answer I have is that we were imported from some other universe.
My reasoning behind humans coming from... elsewhere is simple: Aside from humans, all fauna in the pokeverse is pokemon- heck some of the flora are pokemon too. Let's also not forget that Arceus (aka: GOD) is a pokemon too. Not to mention there are alien pokemon too (Deoxys is the only one confirmed, but the Clefairy line and Elgyem line are heavily hinted to not originate from poke Earth). The in universe theory that pokmon as a whole come from space is debunked when you realize fossil pokemon exist.
Let's also not forget mating habits. Unless you are a Legendary or unown, you can find some way to pass on your genes to almost any other pokemon. It may not be in one generation or two, but eventually you are going to find a way to get a Dragonite to pass its genes onto a Skitty. On the other hand, there are no mentions of human/pokemon hybrids inside any pokemon canon, save maybe Reburst or Bill's screw up of an experiment, meaning that we aren't compatible. Also, all known pokemon hatch from eggs. Do you know who doesn't hatch from eggs in the pokeverse?
And last but not least, you cannot put a human in a pokeball.
Any other theories?
The best answer I have is that we were imported from some other universe.
My reasoning behind humans coming from... elsewhere is simple: Aside from humans, all fauna in the pokeverse is pokemon- heck some of the flora are pokemon too. Let's also not forget that Arceus (aka: GOD) is a pokemon too. Not to mention there are alien pokemon too (Deoxys is the only one confirmed, but the Clefairy line and Elgyem line are heavily hinted to not originate from poke Earth). The in universe theory that pokmon as a whole come from space is debunked when you realize fossil pokemon exist.
Let's also not forget mating habits. Unless you are a Legendary or unown, you can find some way to pass on your genes to almost any other pokemon. It may not be in one generation or two, but eventually you are going to find a way to get a Dragonite to pass its genes onto a Skitty. On the other hand, there are no mentions of human/pokemon hybrids inside any pokemon canon, save maybe Reburst or Bill's screw up of an experiment, meaning that we aren't compatible. Also, all known pokemon hatch from eggs. Do you know who doesn't hatch from eggs in the pokeverse?
And last but not least, you cannot put a human in a pokeball.
Any other theories?
but Pokémon are humans according to GameTheory remember
My one issue with that is that humans definitely don't have the tech level to do that in any of the games, and if they didn't transport themselves, who did? :O
And who says Game Theory is right? It's called Game Theory for a reason.
Only thing is, this is all that is important to the stories. The earliest parts of the anime had regular fish and such appearing, and was eventually phased out for more aquatic Pokemon as the number of Pokemon known (introduced to that point) increased. It's possible that humans and Pokemon were effectively one and the same in the early, early past and eventually went our separate paths. Then one day a Pokemon decided they should all be ready to help us at any time, and some time later we cobbled together a contraption to fit within an apricorn to capture Pokemon so they can be with us wherever we go...
Or Hoopa did it. I don't know.
In Canalave Library(best Library in the world, I spent ages there), there's a book that say this;
This story pretty much implies the evolution of a Pokemon to a human, and this next story(censored in the English version) gives further insight, and may also address the possibility of Human/Pokemon hybrids;
This story is the reason why many Pokemon fans in Japan believe that Pokemon in the human shaped egg group were brought about due to Human-Pokemon relations, and is also the reason why the Pokephillia train suddenly starting moving at unstoppable levels after the release of Diamond and Pearl once Pokemon fans outside of Japan heard about it.
...It was a joke.
Where do humans come from in the Pokemon Universe, that's a question I haven't thought of. The very original idea about the in-universe origin of Pokemon is that one day they just appeared (okay, not the most complex origin story, they do try filling it out by saying they came from space), but obviously that idea has been long abandoned (at least in the Pokemon universe) with their being ancient Pokemon that predate when humans would have existed. But in that case, if Pokemon predate humans then WE'RE the ones who are the anomaly, not the Pokemon. According to legends (which in the Pokemon universe can be true), everything started in a swirling mass of chaos until an Egg was created and from it hatched Arceus who caused time to flow and space to bend. Arcues is a Pokemon, and he created more Pokemon to control and meld the universe and Pokemon World as well a ones to live upon it an spread. It's a bit foggy what happened from there, the Mew species was made in abundance but they quickly evolved into other species of Pokemon. Then we have the prehistoric era where for millions of years the Fossil Pokemon lived and thrived. All this and still no humans in sight.
Coming to ancient historical times, obviously humans have come into existence as there are manmade artifacts and messages left behind. As Daemul pointed out, there are a few myths of people and Pokemon being one and the same once. Though these stories are just possible allusions to some real life mythology (they sound similar to stories of swan maidens and selkies), it could also possibly show either humans are indeed an offshoot of the Pokemon species (somehow) or even ancient people wondered this very question and decided to relate themselves to the magical creatures who they probably had the legends where they came from.
But if that's so, how come Arceus is sometimes shown to have a disdain for humans? Are we not still his children? If the "humans were once Pokemon" story was true then there would have to have been an event where the beings we would first consider human having maybe betrayed Arceus or forgone their Pokemon nature (Pokemon Adam & Eve?). But for what purpose would these proto-humans do that? Did they want to be consider special or possibly superior to their Pokemon peers? Did they not want to listen to the likes of Arceus and other powerful Legendaries and instead carve out their own destiny? Or, going off the Adam and Eve idea, were humans an experiment by Arcues which fell through but somehow the proto-humans were able to survive and multiply.
Or, if you don't like the religion aspect of things, if we were to go by a scientific route what would cause either a human split from Pokemon or humans developing independently/parallel to Pokemon. Going with the split idea I guess you can say humans went from being Pokemon how humans went from being animals in real life. Humans gained the intelligence to use tools, create complex social structures, create communities, tame both land and their once fellow Pokemon until they became what we would consider fully human; completely split from their Pokemon side. But humans are pretty different from Pokemon as MetalKing1417 points out, so could it be possible human development had nothing to do with Pokemon? Well for that to happen then my guess is that, with Pokemon existing, survival of a species different from Pokemon was very difficult. For another species to develop alongside humans they would have to be adept survivors, being able to ignore being easy prey as well as maintaining a sizable population to breed. Obviously it would be very difficult, but life finds a way and the evolution line that eventually became humans was either lucky enough to accomplish this or early on there was some connection between them and Pokemon that was beneficial to the Pokemon. So as time went on eventually the proto-human(s) came into existence and began using their different intelligence from Pokemon to begin the process of becoming modern day humans.
And that's to mention all the mix-and-match things you can do. Like Arcues realizing for Pokemon to become stronger there needs to another species disconnected from them that they can bond with, so started the evolutionary process that'll become humans (that was Pokemon were directly created by Arceus while humans went through the process of evolution how we know of it in the real world). Or maybe, as MetalKing1417 said, Arceus pulled humans from elsewhere (maybe the reason Hoopa was made?) in the multiverse and THAT'S why to ancient humans it seemed like Pokemon came out of nowhere yet there are fossil Pokemon. Or maybe it wasn't Arceus, maybe it was another kind of cosmic force that maybe caused the Pokemon world and a world with humans to merge into one.
So, what is the answer to where human came from in the Pokemon World? I don't know, TAKE YOUR PICK! Phenomenal or natural? Arceus or no Arceus? From Pokemon or individual? Evolution or transportation? Maybe someone should ask Professor Juniper, with all her studying of Pokemon origin at some point she had to stumble upon some bits or human origin, right?
Coming to ancient historical times, obviously humans have come into existence as there are manmade artifacts and messages left behind. As Daemul pointed out, there are a few myths of people and Pokemon being one and the same once. Though these stories are just possible allusions to some real life mythology (they sound similar to stories of swan maidens and selkies), it could also possibly show either humans are indeed an offshoot of the Pokemon species (somehow) or even ancient people wondered this very question and decided to relate themselves to the magical creatures who they probably had the legends where they came from.
But if that's so, how come Arceus is sometimes shown to have a disdain for humans? Are we not still his children? If the "humans were once Pokemon" story was true then there would have to have been an event where the beings we would first consider human having maybe betrayed Arceus or forgone their Pokemon nature (Pokemon Adam & Eve?). But for what purpose would these proto-humans do that? Did they want to be consider special or possibly superior to their Pokemon peers? Did they not want to listen to the likes of Arceus and other powerful Legendaries and instead carve out their own destiny? Or, going off the Adam and Eve idea, were humans an experiment by Arcues which fell through but somehow the proto-humans were able to survive and multiply.
Or, if you don't like the religion aspect of things, if we were to go by a scientific route what would cause either a human split from Pokemon or humans developing independently/parallel to Pokemon. Going with the split idea I guess you can say humans went from being Pokemon how humans went from being animals in real life. Humans gained the intelligence to use tools, create complex social structures, create communities, tame both land and their once fellow Pokemon until they became what we would consider fully human; completely split from their Pokemon side. But humans are pretty different from Pokemon as MetalKing1417 points out, so could it be possible human development had nothing to do with Pokemon? Well for that to happen then my guess is that, with Pokemon existing, survival of a species different from Pokemon was very difficult. For another species to develop alongside humans they would have to be adept survivors, being able to ignore being easy prey as well as maintaining a sizable population to breed. Obviously it would be very difficult, but life finds a way and the evolution line that eventually became humans was either lucky enough to accomplish this or early on there was some connection between them and Pokemon that was beneficial to the Pokemon. So as time went on eventually the proto-human(s) came into existence and began using their different intelligence from Pokemon to begin the process of becoming modern day humans.
And that's to mention all the mix-and-match things you can do. Like Arcues realizing for Pokemon to become stronger there needs to another species disconnected from them that they can bond with, so started the evolutionary process that'll become humans (that was Pokemon were directly created by Arceus while humans went through the process of evolution how we know of it in the real world). Or maybe, as MetalKing1417 said, Arceus pulled humans from elsewhere (maybe the reason Hoopa was made?) in the multiverse and THAT'S why to ancient humans it seemed like Pokemon came out of nowhere yet there are fossil Pokemon. Or maybe it wasn't Arceus, maybe it was another kind of cosmic force that maybe caused the Pokemon world and a world with humans to merge into one.
So, what is the answer to where human came from in the Pokemon World? I don't know, TAKE YOUR PICK! Phenomenal or natural? Arceus or no Arceus? From Pokemon or individual? Evolution or transportation? Maybe someone should ask Professor Juniper, with all her studying of Pokemon origin at some point she had to stumble upon some bits or human origin, right?
Well, if we take the anime into account for a second, there is definitely evidence of people being similar to pokemon. For example (I know it is mostly there for comedic effect) team rocket gets blasted thousands(possibly more) of feet through the air frequently, but they come back every time unharmed, and ash is zapped and burned and the like by pokemon all the time. If this stuff happened to normal humans, they would be dead or severely injured. Also I recall an episode with Bruno where he displays super-human powers while fighting a giant onix. All these things could just be pokemon powers remaining from recent evolution or possibly they are a different species of human all together.
Or it could be in the distant future. Pokémon did come from space, flown to Earth by the intelligent species like Clefairy and Beheeyem from a doomed planet.
Team Aqua and Magma's attempt to control Groudon and Kyogre was a repeat of history, in which some military organization tried to control and weaponize them by creating and using Red and Blue Orbs, which were some sort of mind control devices, but it backfired, they couldn't control them, and they destroyed everything and everyone they knew. The fossil Pokémon were just the ones who couldn't survive the rapid and drastic changes.
The cities the survived intact enough to become ruins were mostly covered in lava or are deep under water as the continents quickly shifted. It would have been just like in the movie 2012, except that humanity had no warning at all to prepare, and hence were able to preserve little to nothing.
Millions of years passed as human civilization got back on it's feet, and civilizations rose and fell, and had to work without technology, or what few scraps they could find.
The stories about Arceus creating the universe are false, though he could belong to a species of highly advanced beings, and the Pokémon are literally their creations, but genetically modified and created. The military's and other organization's attempt to use and abuse them for their own purposes probably put humanity in a bad light for Arceus, considering the mess they made. Sure humanity suffered plenty, but so did their creations, and some even went extinct.
Team Aqua and Magma's attempt to control Groudon and Kyogre was a repeat of history, in which some military organization tried to control and weaponize them by creating and using Red and Blue Orbs, which were some sort of mind control devices, but it backfired, they couldn't control them, and they destroyed everything and everyone they knew. The fossil Pokémon were just the ones who couldn't survive the rapid and drastic changes.
The cities the survived intact enough to become ruins were mostly covered in lava or are deep under water as the continents quickly shifted. It would have been just like in the movie 2012, except that humanity had no warning at all to prepare, and hence were able to preserve little to nothing.
Millions of years passed as human civilization got back on it's feet, and civilizations rose and fell, and had to work without technology, or what few scraps they could find.
The stories about Arceus creating the universe are false, though he could belong to a species of highly advanced beings, and the Pokémon are literally their creations, but genetically modified and created. The military's and other organization's attempt to use and abuse them for their own purposes probably put humanity in a bad light for Arceus, considering the mess they made. Sure humanity suffered plenty, but so did their creations, and some even went extinct.
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Thought Bulbapedia said that the Pokemon planet is not Earth, but a place very similar to Earth, completed with a similar Moon.
Maybe humans traveled there?
But then again, it would be contrary to the Sinnoh myth that states ancient humans used to marry ancient Pokemon.
Maybe humans traveled there?
But then again, it would be contrary to the Sinnoh myth that states ancient humans used to marry ancient Pokemon.
If only there was some kind of lookout in Mossdeep, preferably close to the Space Station itself...
New mystery time:
A lot of people have overlooked the markings on the walls at the peak of Mt. Pyre, since you're not up there for long. For reference here's some pictures (I can't find a picture of the whole carving in one, so there's a picture of the main carvings, the ones at the front, and then a bunch of Helix Fossil carvings at the back):
The main carvings depict some kind of tribe or a group of adventurers on the top of a hill, one holding a torch. The others are significantly smaller than the man holding the torch, so they could be his children. On the other side of the break in the middle there's a large flying Pokémon crashing into the ground. Could this be Rayquaza? I've barely seen it mentioned at all, so I'd like to hear what you guys interpret this as.
A lot of people have overlooked the markings on the walls at the peak of Mt. Pyre, since you're not up there for long. For reference here's some pictures (I can't find a picture of the whole carving in one, so there's a picture of the main carvings, the ones at the front, and then a bunch of Helix Fossil carvings at the back):
The main carvings depict some kind of tribe or a group of adventurers on the top of a hill, one holding a torch. The others are significantly smaller than the man holding the torch, so they could be his children. On the other side of the break in the middle there's a large flying Pokémon crashing into the ground. Could this be Rayquaza? I've barely seen it mentioned at all, so I'd like to hear what you guys interpret this as.
Wow! I can't believed I never even noticed those before, nice find. Anyway, I have no idea what the helix fossil paintings mean or why they are there, although there is definetly something behind them on the right side in the picture that might help shed some light. As for the painting of the people on the hill with the giant (pokemon?) crashing into a hill, I would guess that maybe the picture is depicting the crater that is sootopolis city being created. According to bulbapedia, sootopolis was formed by a meteorite crash in ORAS (however it is an inactive volcano in RSE), so it's possible the depiction on the left is not a pokemon but a meteorite. If it was a pokemon, rayquaza definitely makes the most sense, but I have to say it definetley looks like Lugia going head first, although that really makes no sense...
Ooh, the Mt. Pyre murals, that should make for an interesting discussion. Well for one thing let's remember they're different in each version. The ones that Celever posted are from Omega Ruby, I found a Youtuber who also noticed the hieroglyphs so showed off what they look in both versions.
From what it looks like it's just Groudon and Kyogre doing their thing. In the Omega Ruby one you see Groudon raising plumes of lava (which are what the helix designs are). In Alpha Sapphire its Kyogre stirring up waves (represented as swirls). They both have the murals in the front where they look to be falling into a crevice which has human figures looking on and next to it a meteor(?)-looking one.
As WaffleTitan said it could also be related to the new origin of Sootopolis being in a crater of a meteor. It also seems to maybe be an allusion to when Groudon and Kyogre might have been sealed away (or maybe even to the Cave of Origin)? To me the murals seem to be a bit too abstract to figure out what they're trying to exactly tell aside depicting Groudon or Kyogre.
From what it looks like it's just Groudon and Kyogre doing their thing. In the Omega Ruby one you see Groudon raising plumes of lava (which are what the helix designs are). In Alpha Sapphire its Kyogre stirring up waves (represented as swirls). They both have the murals in the front where they look to be falling into a crevice which has human figures looking on and next to it a meteor(?)-looking one.
As WaffleTitan said it could also be related to the new origin of Sootopolis being in a crater of a meteor. It also seems to maybe be an allusion to when Groudon and Kyogre might have been sealed away (or maybe even to the Cave of Origin)? To me the murals seem to be a bit too abstract to figure out what they're trying to exactly tell aside depicting Groudon or Kyogre.
I was reading Blissey's Pokédex entries when I saw this one (from Gold, Stadium 2, LeafGreen, and SoulSilver):
A similar one is in Pearl:
That is simply amazing. My question is why doesn't everyone eat them? Seriously, that would have stopped Team Rocket, Galactic, Flare, and most of Plasma. I mean, Blissey have the power to, in essence, create universal peace. Yet no one capitalizes on this.
Honestly a lot of problems could be solved with certain Pokemon, Abilities, or Moves.
If you want a forced explanation of why it wouldn't work, I'm going to say that it's probably an exaggeration of its power. That description makes it sound like its on the level of mind control. My guess for the Egg to work the person WANTS to be happy. I imagine if a main villain eats one of the Eggs they may feel better but that's not going to stop them from doing their plan.
My guess would that blissey are just so rare that it just wouldn't be possible to supply large amounts of eggs to people. You can't find them in the wild anywhere (I believe) and this might be because they were captured for their eggs and are now endangered.