SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

Also, whenever people discuss the Pokemon anime on here, I'm reminded of Francis, the nerdy lizard from Super Paper Mario. Not entirely sure why...
It's kind of like that kooky uncle we all have that we used to think was cool and fun but is stuck in the past while you've grown up and moved on. It's still family, so you can't write it off (no matter how much you want to). Gotta take the good with the bad in the Orange Islands.

So for another mystery to solve, let's talk about Heatran. Again.

Heatran is the only legendary pokemon that can be either gender (instead of the others that are either set or indeterminate). Why do you think that is?
 

Karxrida

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You've got to remember that Ash's Pikachu is still being given a good run for its money by the Route 1 trainers of Kalos despite having had five generations of so-called experience under its belt by now.
That's because the writers are lazy fucks that would rather hit the reset button repeatedly instead of making any good justifications.

Also DHR-107 you're overthinking the whole thing about anime power levels for those reasons. Realistically, unevolved Pokemon like Totodile shoudln't be curbstomping anything that's evolved unless their was a massive level discrepency.
 
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Heatran is like a liger; it can be created as either gender but is sterile either way.
Interesting. Maybe.

But that would also imply that it's a hybrid of two other pokemon. My question was more why Heatran, the titular hot lava monster, they can determine a gender (and gender differences too) but not the other indeterminate legends?

Maybe we'll know more when Volcanion is released. It looks like it has a connection to Heatran.
 
I didn't really mean the hybrid part, I thought heatran was created by immense pressure and lava, but gamefreak is definitely leaving us hangin with heatran and phione/manaphy. Like how come manaphy can breed, but is genderless, whereas heatran can be either genders but cannot breed?
 
I didn't really mean the hybrid part, I thought heatran was created by immense pressure and lava, but gamefreak is definitely leaving us hangin with heatran and phione/manaphy. Like how come manaphy can breed, but is genderless, whereas heatran can be either genders but cannot breed?
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. It's like there's some obscure myth, or basis, or dropped idea, or something that's behind it but for the life of me I can't think of what it is. I don't think Gamefreak would just throw it in for kicks, there had to be some reason for the effort.

That was the generation that introduced gender differences (well, besides the nidorans). Maybe they were meant to be differently colored based on gender but then they dropped it?

I guess the consolation prize is I can name my female Heatran Pele (the Hawaiian volcano goddess).
 

Xen

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I didn't really mean the hybrid part, I thought heatran was created by immense pressure and lava, but gamefreak is definitely leaving us hangin with heatran and phione/manaphy. Like how come manaphy can breed, but is genderless, whereas heatran can be either genders but cannot breed?
Keep in mind these are the same people who screwed up Azurill's gender ratio, and also made Nido(King/Queen) unbreedable, yet the Nidorans can.

From a Poke-realistic viewpoint, I always just assumed Heatran's body temperature played a role in it being unbreedable. I can vaguely remember one game's pokedex saying that Heatran's own body was partially melted by its own body temperature. That's too hot even for Ditto.
 

Karxrida

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Keep in mind these are the same people who screwed up Azurill's gender ratio, and also made Nido(King/Queen) unbreedable, yet the Nidorans can.

From a Poke-realistic viewpoint, I always just assumed Heatran's body temperature played a role in it being unbreedable. I can vaguely remember one game's pokedex saying that Heatran's own body was partially melted by its own body temperature. That's too hot even for Ditto.
Then how do explain it not being able to breed with the Latis? I'm pretty sure the justification has no basis in the story (pretty sure Ditto can handle it) and it's just GF not wanting us to make Heatran breeding factories.
 
Keep in mind these are the same people who screwed up Azurill's gender ratio, and also made Nido(King/Queen) unbreedable, yet the Nidorans can.

From a Poke-realistic viewpoint, I always just assumed Heatran's body temperature played a role in it being unbreedable. I can vaguely remember one game's pokedex saying that Heatran's own body was partially melted by its own body temperature. That's too hot even for Ditto.
Nidoking can breed just fine. It's Nidorina/Nidoqueen that can't. As for the thought that its body is too hot for Ditto, Ditto can still breed with Slugma/Magcargo, which is almost entirely lava. Maybe Heatran can't breed because it's seen the atrocity that is the spawn of Manaphy, Phione. (real reason for ANY legendary not being breed-able is naturally Karxida's answer of GF not wanting them to. And not being arsed to fix Nidorina/Nidoqueen)
 

Hulavuta

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It's possible that Heatran is simply lacking any sort of reproductive organs, there may be two sexes but that doesn't mean that both or either have to have them.
 

Pikachu315111

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Ah, evolution. For starters the name always irked me, since pokemon don't really "evolve," they go through metamorphosis. But I'm a science nut and it's to late to grab my pitchfork for that angry mob...

The anime has SOOOOOO many weird evolutions that we might as well state that if it doesn't involve an item then anime evolution =/= game evolution. The only consistent rule seems to be tied to emotional states, which is easy writing for "whenever the heck we want them to evolve." For early examples, Team Rocket's Ekans and Koffing evolved just because their trainers whined about it for a whole episode and then crying on them somehow triggered it.

For more positive examples, one episode had a paras with confidence issues. When it was tricked into gaining a sense of confidence, and then put this into trial against Charmeleon, it evolved into Parasect. Charmeleon himself evolved to Charizard for a grudge match with Aerodactyl, so I guess his desire to fight triggered it? It could be a sign of emotional maturity or growth that translates into physical growth.

As why some do and some don't, I guess either they don't want to or aren't ready for it. Meowth is mostly a non-combatant, but I think he expressed displeasure with the thought of evolving. As for the Piplup problem, maybe the evolution problem came from a mental clash, like your tween years when you start getting adult responsibilities but still want to go and play with dolls and trucks. If it's tied to your physical form, then maybe the everstone just stopped the physical response to allow Piplup to decide when it's truly ready. Or to forever be an adult-child. As for why an everstone, I don't think evolution cancelling exists in the anime.

Heck, I'd go so far as to say the anime just doesn't have levels period. I know they were mentioned in the VERY early ones, but have they ever been brought up since? I think a pokemon's performance in the anime is like a human's: based on skill, fitness, and a bit of talent. So the reason Ash's Pikachu goes from Dragonite slayer to beat by an Eevee (actually Eevee is great and beats all and is my favorite smack that fat yellow rat eevee) is that Ash takes a 6 month break and Pikachu spends it eating Poffins and Pokepuffs between seasons. Can't forget your technique (moves), but loses the fitness (level).

Closest answer I've got outside of "FOR THE PLOT!"
I think they do sometimes say a Pokemon is "of a high level" in the anime time to time but they never specify, to the point where being told that is as useful as bein told the power levels in Dragon Ball Z. DBZ:A Vageta sums up well.

So for another mystery to solve, let's talk about Heatran. Again.

Heatran is the only legendary pokemon that can be either gender (instead of the others that are either set or indeterminate). Why do you think that is?
Why do Heatran have gender, hmm, well Heatran is reptilian-like and I know for reptiles that the temperature of the egg will decide the gender of the baby. But would that be too obscure a reference for them to make? Also Heatran's name in all language is the same so the "heat" and "transfer" reference must be very important for all languages to include it. Maybe it could be also a reference for sexual passion? During sexual intercourse you and your partner are generally transferring your heat to one another and of many things an organism is compared to a volcano erupting is probably a popular one. Also an aftermath of a volcano does provide valuable minerals to make a soil fertile and thus something is able to grow in it.

"... so what you're saying is that Heatran is a reference to a planet's molten metal core... and heated sex?". Yes, I guess I am. When a volcano erupts its two Heatrans "doing the deed", get that image now out of your head.
 

Cresselia~~

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It's possible that Heatran is simply lacking any sort of reproductive organs, there may be two sexes but that doesn't mean that both or either have to have them.
Or rather... unable to breed in captivity doesn't mean they can't breed in the wild...
 

Xen

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Or rather... unable to breed in captivity doesn't mean they can't breed in the wild...
For a Pokemon that likes solitude in the middle of a volcano, I don't think wild Heatran really get out and socialize much, especially if the species as a whole is very rare as it is. Could be a reason why there are no cases of reproduction in the wild, assuming they have the capability to reproduce like Hulavuta pointed out.

As for the argument of cross-species breeding, I still think Heatan's body heat plays a role there. Even fire types can have body temperature variables too, and you don't see the Pokedex mentioning other fire types being partially melted by its own heat (as far as I know anyway.)
 

Karxrida

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For a Pokemon that likes solitude in the middle of a volcano, I don't think wild Heatran really get out and socialize much, especially if the species as a whole is very rare as it is. Could be a reason why there are no cases of reproduction in the wild, assuming they have the capability to reproduce like Hulavuta pointed out.

As for the argument of cross-species breeding, I still think Heatan's body heat plays a role there. Even fire types can have body temperature variables too, and you don't see the Pokedex mentioning other fire types being partially melted by its own heat (as far as I know anyway.)
Except Pokemon like Beartic can breed with Rapidash and Macargo can bred with Gardevoir. I don't think body temperature means shit here.
 
That's a good point, why did Piplup have such a big problem trying not to evolve while Ash's Pokemon didn't even try to evolve at all? Hmm, I guess it could stem from maybe Piplup childlike behavior not giving the discipline to just ignore the effects of evolution, but then again I don't think some of Ash's Pokemon like Totodile, Corphish, Buizel, and Snivy would have a qualm about evolving given the chance to. Then again I always did find it a bit Tauros Mulch when Ash got to a League yet he didn't have a party of at least half of them being fully evolve Pokemon. Going a bit meta, wouldn't having Ash's Pokemon evolve be the best way to show and present Ash's Pokemon evolutions instead of having a random one or one from another trainer appear? Unova was pretty guilty of doing that, to the point that I think since the writers showed off their evolutions they felt no need to evolve Ash's Pokemon... which resulted them pretty much getting tossed around by Cameron's Hydriegon, Samurott, and Lucario (if Cameron had half a brain he would have been able to sweep Ash sooner. Also Lucario pretty much went Gary Sue mode).

BUT back to the point: Yeah, Piplup needing an Everstone to stop evolving while some of Ash's Pokemon never attempted to makes no sense. I really think the show needs to let go a lot of its writers and hire new ones. I think the old writers are tired of writing and want to move on themselves while new writers would probably jump at the chance of coming up with ideas for a show that has run as long as Pokemon.
Actually, Ash's Pikachu needs a Thunder Stone to evolve, so it can't unless you give Pikachu one. But other evolutions that are item independent happen whenever the writers want it to.
 

Hulavuta

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Or rather... unable to breed in captivity doesn't mean they can't breed in the wild...
I know that's definitely the case for other legendaries, but I was rolling with WaffleTitan's idea that Heatran itself are actually created by intense heat and pressure and therefore not birthed in the normal way. In that case, it would make sense if it didn't have reproductive organs and never evolved them. Looking on Bulbapedia, it doesn't seem like this was actually touched on in the Pokedex entries, but it would be cool (hahaha) regardless.
 
I guess the consolation prize is I can name my female Heatran Pele (the Hawaiian volcano goddess).
I do the same thing!

...and also made Nido(King/Queen) unbreedable, yet the Nidorans can.
Nidorino and Nidoking can breed. Nidorina and Nidoqueen can't.
I just chalk it up to Poké-menopause, similar to how baby Pokémon can't breed since they haven't gone through Poké-puberty. It's the only answer I have that makes any kind of sense, not me trying to be gross/funny.
 
Here's a mystery I don't think we've touched on at all (at least in this thread), besides a mention of it by Phione (Post #33), being the Backpacker in one of the hotels around Kalos saying that we "should really check out his region" and also says (on several visits on later days) that his region isn't Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, or Unova. He also hands out the Strange Souvenir after the final visit, if I recall correctly (I found him in Couriway Town today, though he moves everyday).



Now, which region could he be referring to? It could easily be one of the spin-off regions - such as Fiore, Almia, or Oblivia. Or it could be an entirely new region that no one has seen before - which would be cool, but unprecedented (though, this IS GF we're talking about...). What I personally think, is that he is referring to the Orre region - the home of Pokemon Colosseum and Gale of Darkness (two of my personal favorite titles). IF he is referring to Orre, and it is indeed a hint to an as-of-now unannounced remake, it would be a welcome addition (especially if it was a 3DS title). However, Colosseum and GoD are incredibly out-dated due to the 3 generation gap. Either the remake(s) are updated to include a much more robust roster (yay! 48 shadow Pokemon in Colo bumped up to 167, or more - potentially - Oh, and Ho-Oh!) OR we get a new installment of Colo and GoD. Now, I think the latter part is more likely, simply due to the roster and makes the most sense (and I stress this next part) to me.
--->


Why would I say that, you may be asking yourself. I'd say that because, minus a few, minor exceptions in GoD, Colosseum and Gale of Darkness were solely double battles. Doubles, as we all know, is the official format GF has settled on. What better way or time to remake classics (well, that's debatable) such as these OR their third installment/re-imagination with upgraded graphics and social features of the 3DS (please, no Wii U cross-compatability/exclusivity crap)? Imagine if some shadow Pokemon had their hidden ability or had a chance to have their hidden ability - we could finally have our gen 2 starters with their desperately needed HAs, or maybe even gen 5 starters! I'd still hold that this would be a spin-off, so one couldn't hop onto WiFi and battle any XY/ORAS players. Though, I don't see any reason, outside of the shadow Pokemon, their mechanics, and the (most-likely) double battle requirement - However, who's to say that this would be restricted to double battles only and shadow Pokemon working their way into XY/ORAS? Of course, I'm now starting to trail off and lose my train of thought.

Well, besides my discombobulation of concrete thought in the above paragraph, what do you guys make of this or think of it in general? Do you have a similar, or completely different, idea and/or theory? Did you like my pictures (if you can still see them)?* Let's see what kind of discussion we can get out of it!

*None of the above images were taken by me and were all found on Bing image search. You know the rest...
 
I think the answer is that Gamefreak is just making it clear that they are going to release another title following ORAS, and not a remake; one that takes place in an entirely new region. I could be totally wrong, because it's not like everyone dosen't already know that Gamefreak will make more future pokemon games, in which case your theory is pretty explicable.
 
The part that makes me scratch my head is about the Unowns and the Ruins of Alph
1) In the Pokemon Crystal intro, we see Suicune running away from a flock of Unowns. Why are the Unowns after Suicune? What does Suicune have to do with the Ruins of Alph? This incident is never mentioned again in the games and any other games after that.

2) In the Ruins of Alph, there are 4 secret chambers which you can access after fulfilling the conditions listed on the walls of the normal room. In each of the chambers, you get to find some consumables and a few sentences like these:
"Our words shall remain here for the ages"
"Thus we shall erect a Pokémon statue outside."
"They possess great insight and refuse the outside world."
"We humans must learn to walk in harmony with them. We depart for their sakes."

It is also notable that all the letters are spelled out using the Unown alphabet. Who are the people who built this place? What words are do you say "remain in this place"?

3) Near the Ruins of Alph, through Union Cave, you can find a patch of grass where Natu is commonly found (it is also the only place you can catch Natu in the game). The Pokedex claims that Natu is often seen staring into the distance but we have no idea what it is looking at. Xatu, however, is said to be frozen in fear after staring into a bad future. Could they and Natu be seeing the same thing: A bad future caused by the Unowns?

Also, the only trainers you fight near the area are also Psychics. Your radio also picks up strange noises near the Ruins.

4) Finally, what is so special about the ? and ! Unowns that they only appear after you have 26 different Unowns? And they only show up at the entrance.
 
The part that makes me scratch my head is about the Unowns and the Ruins of Alph
1) In the Pokemon Crystal intro, we see Suicune running away from a flock of Unowns. Why are the Unowns after Suicune? What does Suicune have to do with the Ruins of Alph? This incident is never mentioned again in the games and any other games after that.

2) In the Ruins of Alph, there are 4 secret chambers which you can access after fulfilling the conditions listed on the walls of the normal room. In each of the chambers, you get to find some consumables and a few sentences like these:
"Our words shall remain here for the ages"
"Thus we shall erect a Pokémon statue outside."
"They possess great insight and refuse the outside world."
"We humans must learn to walk in harmony with them. We depart for their sakes."

It is also notable that all the letters are spelled out using the Unown alphabet. Who are the people who built this place? What words are do you say "remain in this place"?

3) Near the Ruins of Alph, through Union Cave, you can find a patch of grass where Natu is commonly found (it is also the only place you can catch Natu in the game). The Pokedex claims that Natu is often seen staring into the distance but we have no idea what it is looking at. Xatu, however, is said to be frozen in fear after staring into a bad future. Could they and Natu be seeing the same thing: A bad future caused by the Unowns?

Also, the only trainers you fight near the area are also Psychics. Your radio also picks up strange noises near the Ruins.

4) Finally, what is so special about the ? and ! Unowns that they only appear after you have 26 different Unowns? And they only show up at the entrance.
I don't think Suicune is running from the Unown, it's just running like the North wind it represents. If I remember right, the Unown spell out its name and then Crystal at the title screen. (it's been years since I looked at my old Crystal game, what with the internal battery being dead and all, so I could easily be mistaken) This is also the only place one can catch wild Smeargle in the game, so it's probably more just to give further incentive to look around after solving the puzzles and having a Water Stone and Ho-Oh to open the chambers in the back. As for the ! and ? Unown, they're at the end. Because that's where a ! or a ? would go in a sentence, right? And they were in a separate spot in the Solaceon Ruins accessible only after the entire alphabet of Unown had been caught as well in D/P/Pt, so they've always had a bit of history of appearing last and away from the others. (heck, I think they also only appeared in the Tanoby Ruins once you had all the others too in FR/LG)
 

Pikachu315111

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Nidorina & Nidoqueen:
Them not being able to breed is for some reason a glitch that was kept. I don't know why, it's random and I see no reason for them not being able to.

Here's a mystery I don't think we've touched on at all (at least in this thread), besides a mention of it by Phione (Post #33), being the Backpacker in one of the hotels around Kalos saying that we "should really check out his region" and also says (on several visits on later days) that his region isn't Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, or Unova. He also hands out the Strange Souvenir after the final visit, if I recall correctly (I found him in Couriway Town today, though he moves everyday).



Now, which region could he be referring to? It could easily be one of the spin-off regions - such as Fiore, Almia, or Oblivia. Or it could be an entirely new region that no one has seen before - which would be cool, but unprecedented (though, this IS GF we're talking about...). What I personally think, is that he is referring to the Orre region - the home of Pokemon Colosseum and Gale of Darkness (two of my personal favorite titles). IF he is referring to Orre, and it is indeed a hint to an as-of-now unannounced remake, it would be a welcome addition (especially if it was a 3DS title). However, Colosseum and GoD are incredibly out-dated due to the 3 generation gap. Either the remake(s) are updated to include a much more robust roster (yay! 48 shadow Pokemon in Colo bumped up to 167, or more - potentially - Oh, and Ho-Oh!) OR we get a new installment of Colo and GoD. Now, I think the latter part is more likely, simply due to the roster and makes the most sense (and I stress this next part) to me.
--->


Why would I say that, you may be asking yourself. I'd say that because, minus a few, minor exceptions in GoD, Colosseum and Gale of Darkness were solely double battles. Doubles, as we all know, is the official format GF has settled on. What better way or time to remake classics (well, that's debatable) such as these OR their third installment/re-imagination with upgraded graphics and social features of the 3DS (please, no Wii U cross-compatability/exclusivity crap)? Imagine if some shadow Pokemon had their hidden ability or had a chance to have their hidden ability - we could finally have our gen 2 starters with their desperately needed HAs, or maybe even gen 5 starters! I'd still hold that this would be a spin-off, so one couldn't hop onto WiFi and battle any XY/ORAS players. Though, I don't see any reason, outside of the shadow Pokemon, their mechanics, and the (most-likely) double battle requirement - However, who's to say that this would be restricted to double battles only and shadow Pokemon working their way into XY/ORAS? Of course, I'm now starting to trail off and lose my train of thought.

Well, besides my discombobulation of concrete thought in the above paragraph, what do you guys make of this or think of it in general? Do you have a similar, or completely different, idea and/or theory? Did you like my pictures (if you can still see them)?* Let's see what kind of discussion we can get out of it!

*None of the above images were taken by me and were all found on Bing image search. You know the rest...
I'd like it if they would revisit Orre (or at least re-release the games with updated graphics and maybe updated Pokemon). They setup sequel bait at the end of XD with having Ardos escape and planning on reviving Cipher. Though I would like for them to work on the special moves the Pokemon get, I don't recall them being anything special or notable. As for them having their Hidden Ability, how about having the option of changing their Ability to their Hidden Ability?

Of course I don't see how the Strange Souvenir relates to Orre.

I think the answer is that Gamefreak is just making it clear that they are going to release another title following ORAS, and not a remake; one that takes place in an entirely new region. I could be totally wrong, because it's not like everyone dosen't already know that Gamefreak will make more future pokemon games, in which case your theory is pretty explicable.
Well the thing about the Souvenir is that it's a normal item so it can be transferred between games that are in the same generation. So if it's meant to unlock anything it'll have to be done in this generation.
 

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