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Nachos' List

Discussion in 'Archives' started by Nachos, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Nachos

    Nachos
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    Just mentioning what needs to be added here. Otherwise assume the rest of the analysis is fine.

    Alakazam


    -Mention it outspeeds Keldeo. Tornadus-T outspeeds it.

    OU Worthy: Yes
    Revamp: No

    Carracosta

    -breloom can revenge with mach punch, scarf thundurus-t outspeeds, keldeo resists stabs.

    OU worthy: Probably not
    Revamp: No

    Crawdaunt


    OU Worthy: No

    Dusclops

    OU Worthy
    : No

    Forretress

    - Thundurus-T can set up on it

    OU Worthy: Yes
    Revamp: No

    Heatran

    - Increased rain usage means Heatran isn't a premier Pokemon anymore

    OU Worthy
    : Yes
    Revamp: No

    Kabutops

    -Keldeo walls its STAB moves

    OU Worthy: Maybe? Original analysis was wrote not too soon after the Drizzle + SS ban. New threats such as Breloom may hampen its ability to be as destructive.
    Revamp: No

    Magikarp

    OU Worthy: 100% Yes
    Revamp: No

    Nidoqueen

    - Gained Stealth Rock. This means it can now lay both SR and TSpikes. The only other Pokemon who can do this is Forretress I believe.
    - Gained Sheer Force. Wouldn't advise using it if you're weak to Terrakion, but otherwise a viable option.

    OU Worthy: Yes
    Revamp: No

    Rotom

    OU Worthy: No

    Sharpedo

    -Keldeo resists its STAB moves

    OU Worthy: Yes
    Revamp: Possibly to suit the analysis to new threats

    Starmie

    -Tornadus-T outspeeds. Mention use of Ice Beam for genies.
    -Psyshock for Keldeo.

    OU Worthy: Yes
    Revamp: No

    Tyranitar

    -increased rain usage because of bw2's new toys has meant tyranitar has struggled to find its footing. Keldeo can come in on STABs and KO with Secret Sword.
    -Scrap the DD and Tyraniboah sets
    -SpDef possibly needs testing again?
    -Mixed set is kind of bad imo, I think it should be renamed to "Stealth Rocker" and the set should be SR/Crunch/Pursuit/Superpower. Nature: Adamant. EVS: 252 HP/~120 Attack/Rest in SDef. Brave with Fire Blast over any of the last three moves can be used.

    OU Worthy: Yes
    Revamp: Yes

    Whimsicott

    No changes

    OU Worthy
    : Yes
    Revamp: No
  2. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Nidoqueen gets Stealth Rock + Sheer Force js.

    Why are Rotom and Dusclops getting taken out? Have they gotten worse, or is it just a matter of that that they were never good?
  3. Nachos

    Nachos
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    They have always been terrible, when was the last time you saw them used in OU?

    Stealth Rock on Nidoqueen is something that I'll include, thanks. Sheer Force is 'somewhat' bad because a) it supposedly got nerfed and b) Nidoqueen is a defensive pokemon and doesn't make good use of it.

    Edit: Actually, Husky does bring up a good point regarding EV investment. I do like a 30% chance to poison Terrakion (yes, it is actually that big of a deal) and Tyranitar, but even if it gives only a slight boost to Flamethrower or whatever, it might be enough to score a KO on a weakened Ferrothorn etc.
  4. Husky

    Husky

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    I'd still use it over Rivalry or Poison Point.. Plus, Sheer Force gives Nidoqueen more power on moves like Earth Power, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt without the need of EV investment in its offensive stats. I just agree with pkmn0078 here as it's actually 'queens best ability.
  5. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title
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    Nidoqueen already had SR anyway; it just wasn't legal with Sheer Force.
  6. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    Echoing everyone who said that Sheer Force is Queen's best ability. 30% chance to do NORMAL poison isn't really worth it. If anything, BW2 gave Nidoqueen an upgrade, because Sheer Force + SR is now legal.
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Are we even questioning Sheer Force as a great ability on Nidoqueen? Nachos you are very wrong when saying that this ability is not good for a defensive poke. Do you know a problem that many walls have? Getting set-up on. And one of Nidoqueen's best assets is that her awesome Ice + Ground coverage and her 241 SpA, alongside with D-Tail/Roar, prevent her from becoming set-up bait.
  8. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    On Starmie, I'd mention Psyshock as a way to check/revenge kill Keldeo. Starmie is one of the better offensive rain Pokemon that can take out Keldeo. (along with Tornadus-T, Lati@s, and friends)

    Also, Sheer Force is definitely the best ability on Nidoqueen. Most consistent ability she has and it serves her pretty well.
  9. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Ive talked to people on #grammar about this a while back, and I feel the Forretress needs an update. First off the specially defensive set is pretty much pointless in the current metagame, I honestly do not see the point of it at all. Also the current set needs a bigger mention of hidden power ice, which at this point is pretty much a standard move, probably worth a slash even. And possibly the biggest issue is toxic spikes as a main move when its pretty inefective in the current meta with Amooguss and Tentacruel everywhere and most teams steel types or levitating.
  10. yondie

    yondie mitt game strong
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    Agreeing that mix tyranitar is less relevant now that rain dominates again. Considering this could we just move choice scarf or choice band sets to the top of the analysis?
  11. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
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    I would also like to say that Heatran is very viable on rain teams as it checks Sun+Hail very well. It's still a great Phazer/Rocker and has a useful ability.
  12. Doughboy

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    I always thought the problem with the Forretress analysis has that it used 2 hazards but not 2 attacks. Most of the time I have seen a Forretress it runs 2 attacks instead of one. It really doesn't have the opportunities to set up hazards.

    I wouldn't knock Toxic Spikes yet. Toxic Spikes is really really useful against Keldeo and Starmie because of that residual damage stacking on top of Life Orb. Even one layer is good, possibly better than two, against offensive Pokes because it does 12% every turn, including the turn they are switched in (Breloom and Terrakion are good examples).
  13. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    A couple of things:

    Rotom

    Yeah, I know I wrote this analysis, but personally, I don't think it should be scrapped. Yet. As obscure as it is, and as crappy as it looks, it still remains, in the game, the only spin-blocker that can learn either U-turn or Volt Switch. If Volt-turn is really as good as I was led to believe on IRC yesterday (I personally felt it was a bit overstated, but it was along the lines of "Volt-turn is like bringing a gun to a knife fight"), then this is a pretty big deal. If you can get hazards up along with your Volt-turn team, you can easily keep them down while keeping offensive momentum with Rotom. While yeah, it does seem crappy, you cannot deny it has a niche.

    Tyranitar

    Glad to see that I'm not the only who doesn't like the mix set. I definitely agree with it being merged with the specially defensive set, with mentions of Fire Blast and Ice Beam and a Brave nature. Can we also move it down a set or two? It's not standard worthy, IMO. Choice Band takes that title, IMO.

    Also, while Tyraniboah is kind of iffy, I don't think DD should be scrapped, at least until a mixed one with DD / Crunch / Ice Beam / Fire Blast has been tested. While it may seem weird, this Tyranitar basically beats every physical wall in the tier except maybe Specially Defensive Hippowdon. It is a great lure to stuff like Gliscor and Lando-T thinking they could wall you in which case you just Ice Beam them. Same thing goes to Skarmory and Tangrowth, except with Fire Blast, while Crunch destroys Slowbro and the like.
  14. breh

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    Can we please get rid of Whimsicott? It really can't do very much and it doesn't help that OU's premier Grass-type is also a Steel-type. Whimsicott just kind of sits there in every single tier; OU is no exception.

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