Name kills

#1
I hate namekills. it ruins the game for certain players. People have tried to prevent these from occurring by creating separate forums and separate aliases to target. The problem with this is anonymous messaging to your hearts desire. People can talk to each other and they can't even target each other until they give them aliases. I have been thinking of a game idea, and it's a game where i dont want unlimited anonomys messaging. How would i eliminate namekills in that game? I want to pull mafia away from being about politics.
 

RBG

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#2
How about a game on this forum, where you have two lists, an alias list, and a normal list. But instead of posting on an anonymous forum, there is only the thread here, and you can only target the anonymous alias, not the smogon user name, except with very special roles
 
#3
@RBG: Doesn't solve the problem he's talking about, I think?

Put your important men on mafia teams with a bodyguard or make them bpv (could just be for the first 2 nights) if they're on village.
 

RBG

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#4
Raikige: Let me explain

There are two lists: List a, people who are playing in the game. List b, the anonymous aliases they use for being targeted. Everyone knows from the start who is playing in the game, but you can't target them directly, you can only target the anonymous aliases. I guess it's basically like Big mafia games, only smaller, and without a separate forum.
 
#6
Yeah, RBG but

The problem with this is anonymous messaging to your hearts desire. People can talk to each other and they can't even target each other until they give them aliases.
This problem won't be solved!
 
#7
If this nametargeting is on a night where there isn't enough information in order to make an educated target, just use a RNG to pick your target. Don't be a dick and target the best players in the game.
 
#8
If people would RNG the player's roles rather than giving the best to specific people (or fulfilling role requests), there wouldn't be pressure to target better players. This is one of the primary reasons for name targetting; it's not because they're so much better as a player, but because they're a legitimate threat because hosts give them power roles. An example: Eo gets a plethora of moling abilities, and while the host thinks they're doing him a favor, frankly its making him a target for no reason other than a small possibility he's a mole. Yeah it might suck to have power roles in the hands of less experienced players but mafia is a team game anyways, help him out (if you're on his team). I've been asked by numorous hosts if I'd like a specific role in a game and I decline every time, because A) that's BS and B) I don't want to make a habit of getting good roles!

Needless to say, if a good player is leading the village, it's not a name kill :|

EDIT: Let me rephrase; hosts giving out specific power roles to better players contributes to name kills. I do agree that even with complete randomization of roles there would still be some bias against better players, but it would still be noticably less than with nitpicking.
 
#9
Better players will be targeted more because they're more of a threat, regardless of their role. The only way to stop this is to have mafia games with everyone being relatively equal. Expert games do this quite well, and large games allow users to hide from suspicion quite easily.

The only thing I could recommend is not play standard games if you're worried about getting Name Killed.
 

Altair

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#10
billymills pretty much said it. Why use an RNG when you can target someone who a.) is a good player and thus will probably have a good role and b) someone who is smart and thus will be a threat to your team even if they don't have a good role. Fact is I don't see any way to solve both problems outlined except play on another forum + irc network, the problems of which were outlined in this post.

Basically name kills are a part of the game as we know it, you have to live with them.
 
#11
@RBG: what raikage said

@Veedrock: What billymills said; this would definately help, but it doesn't quite solve the problem, because of the threat of that player's abilties.

Namekills are only really evident in knowledgable factions; a vig or a member of a non-united mafia would never name kill someone in fear of them being an ally.
 
#13
I can't see much wrong with RBG's idea here? Anonymous messaging wouldn't exist, as you would have a player's alias, which is the exact same as the players username? Heck, these aliases could even be recyclable if need be. Just enforce using your alias when on IRC and communications.
 
#14
I would say 90% of the good people play only in games where you play anonymously or with other good players

I would not call this a problem
"Expert" players are not the only players subject to name kills. Frankly the better players of any game are at risk, be they standard game regulars or a beginner player that has more experience than the other beginners.
 
#16
If you can't get your head out of your ass stop posting about it. Mafia consists of more than the same ~20 people, that's why it has its own forum. Standard Mafia games are suffering a large decline in quality, and this is largely because the playerbase is growing with more inexperienced players, while losing its experienced participants (as you so pointed out). So, if a solution can be found, it'll make Standard more attractive for the so-called "expert" players, and improve the quality of the games 10 fold.

I have some beef with RBG's suggestion but it's largely my issues with aliases as a whole, ie nobody else has these problems :(
 

vonFiedler

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#17
Really just say no contact outside of the separate forum if you don't want anonymous messaging. Put a chat on the outside forum for IRC purposes.
 
#19
I can't see much wrong with RBG's idea here? Anonymous messaging wouldn't exist, as you would have a player's alias, which is the exact same as the players username? Heck, these aliases could even be recyclable if need be. Just enforce using your alias when on IRC and communications.
Sure, this can work. But it's rather hard to enforce :/
 

vonFiedler

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#20
Not really. Players snitch on others when NOC is involved (or even room only contact like in Console Wars). Just the fear of another player calling you out as a cheater should keep you in check. It'll certainly prevent MASS anonymous messaging.
 
#21
@vonfiedler: I considered this, but it's no longer smogon mafia. Noone would be talking in the thread in Circus Maximus; the forum would just turn into a database of links. connecting to other forums. This is definately possible, but if this is the solution we agree on, it will truly be the end of mafia games on smogon.

I like that idea mekkah; all player have to die twice to really die, they have to due once through their smogon name and once through their alias. People would be less cautious and it would allow factions to combine much more easily, but it works better than just having one anonomys alias. People would risk half-dying to connect to others.
 
#22
Make it a beginner mafia, with the mentors using the beginners as aliases.

Edit: Main problem between having aliases that the hosts control is that people cannot contact those aliases using forum pms and instead the host must provide some kind of ingame communication relaying system which is quite a hassle.
 
#23
Main problem between having aliases that the hosts control is that people cannot contact those aliases using forum pms and instead the host must provide some kind of ingame communication relaying system which is quite a hassle.
Hang on, I think I may have been on a different page to everyone here. My thoughts were that these aliases were smogon usernames that were useable by hosts, and the passwords were entrusted to the players at the start of each game (almost identical to big mafia games on external forums, but within Smogon). Although this would likely mess with forum rules on alts, which is why I suggested they could be recycled.

I also like Mekkah's suggestion.
 

Da Letter El

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#24
That becomes tech wars where people find out where they are from by checking time zones, irc, etc on irc to figure out who you are. It makes it so that communication could almost solely be through PMing. Not to mention it doesn't solve the fact that people are going to communicate on IRC and still hide behind their alias. And it just creates accounts for the sake of creating accounts on smogon.

blue_light's suggestion is perhaps the best "solution" provided, but even then, since when it comes time for the newer player to claim, they almost certainly are going to have to feed their more experienced teammate's name to said leader to be remotely trusted (and it would just take a quick check to see if they were telling the truth or not). While not perfect, it's about as good as it gets to have the "best of both worlds"