Naruto (Spoilers ITT)

[Shinryu]

Actually the best character to yank Orochimaru's ass out of would be Kabuto considering he's the most integrated with him, while Anko only has trace amounts left by the seal he put on her. And the manifestation of the snake on Kabuto's stomach could be Orochimaru as well, or another manifestation of him, as they never did really say why he has a snake in his gut...

Alternatively, maybe Sasuke can somehow pull Itachi's Susaano's sword/jar out with his, which could let them converse. At any rate, unless someone literally dies like Jiraya, just about any other death is pretty much a comic book death to a point. And it is true Sasuke believes Tobi is Madara, who could very well be some part or another manifestation of Madara for that matter.

 

[some hero]

Did Itachi give his Susanoos weapons to Sasuke?

 

[Chou Toshio]

It was poorly translated obviously. So we will need to re read a better translation. But for now.. It could mean a couple of things:

Wait what? Where? Do you even think (or read) before you talk? I just finished reading the Japanese, and I have no idea where you're talking about, but the translation looks fine. The part of "human who knows everything" is certainly spot on. >__________>

 

[some hero]

After reading a better translated one, it seems Orochimaru is the one who knows everything and Sasuke wants to meet him:


http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c592/14.html

At least that's how it seems from the last two pages.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^wait... duh... how could you not get that... >____________________________>

slow man

 

[TheValkyries]

^wait... duh... how could you not get that... >____________________________>

slow man

I was the one who didn't get it. It was unclear to me in the version I read because he talked about Orichimaru randomly still being alive and then says he must go find "the one who knows everything" while showing a panel of Tobi and Madara. So in my version of the chapter it was fantastically vague and unclear who the hell he was talking about.

 

[Shinryu]

I'm more interested in what the scroll has, though we won't see it for a few months now that the action is likely going to shift back to Naruto vs Tobi for a bit...I wonder if Madara is serious about not using the full Suusano again as well.

Seems like Jiraiya is the only Sannin who knows how to stay dead considering how many times Orochimaru keeps creeping back. Still waiting for Jiraiya to make an appearance, I am willing to bet Kabuto did get enough DNA off of Pain's swords to summon him with Edo Tensei.

 

[Flashstorm1]

I have one question. How is Orochimaru able to come back if he was sealed away by the Sword of Totsuka?

 

[some hero]

That's the thing, we don't know how Sasuke will bring him back. He could now have possesion of the gourd. Either that or Oro could have left a part of himself somewhere.. Like Voldemort. Either way we can all be sure it will be another ass pull.

 

[Yonko7]

One gripe I have with the series is that there are random fillers, like the 100++ episodes when Naruto has to go train with Bee.

However, the lesson and ideas that the show immortalizes are outstanding. I love Rock Lee from the younger generation. >ton ankle weights make for a fast guy!

 

[Ninahaza]

One gripe I have with the series is that there are random fillers, like the 100++ episodes when Naruto has to go train with Bee.

However, the lesson and ideas that the show immortalizes are outstanding. I love Rock Lee from the younger generation. >ton ankle weights make for a fast guy!

i couldn't agree more. I know and expected this thread to turn into a discussion for Naruto and the manga chapters as they were released, and I'm really happy that that even happened, but i held on to a little hope that people would talk about how the show has affected them (if it has at all in some shape or form). I hoped we would get some posts about what some people have taken away from the show.

this is why i went so in depth with answering one of the questions i posted in the OP awhile back

Guess i'll start responding to some of the questions in the OP.

My top 3 favorite characters

For a anime i've followed for so long, my top 3 favorite characters are quite simple and probably wont surprise anyone, but i have my reasons for picking them, and i'll lay them out. I wont rank them, this is in no particular order.

Rock lee:

Rock lee is a character i fell in love with fast. i did not have to wait for much character development, and my feelings have not changed over the years.
I think what attracted me most to this character was his determination, his will power. I dont think i've seen anyone else work so hard. His mental toughness baffles me; he takes the phrase "mind over matter" to a level which the rest of us can only dream of. Rock lee could run for a week straight, despite knowing it will fuck his legs up and put him in crutches for a period of time afterwards. Rock lee is the type that, once he decides to achieve something, he will give his all and fight for it. he will fight until the last breath leaves his body, and let me tell you, he will beat you. His disadvantage of only being able to use Taijutsu as a ninja became the greatest testament to his achievements and the great ninja he grew up to become, and he isn't even done yet lol.

i know its just an anime, but Whenever i see Rock lee, i see a representation of one thing, and that is: You only need the two hands that were given to you to achieve what you want in life. Some people may be born better, stronger and more skilled, but that just means you'll have to work harder for what you want than some people in this world, and if you are willing to put in that hard work, despite how tremendous it may be, you can achieve and even surpass those other guys. The only person that dictates what you can and cannot achieve is you. How hard you are willing to work for whatever you want in life.


Naruto:

Yes, naruto himself, haha. Just like rock lee, it was Naruto's will power and determination that attracted me the most to him (lol, do you see a trend here?). What i love about naruto is his ability to never back down from any fight or situation, even if he was to be facing an undefeatable GOD-LIKE Ninja. he is stubborn, head strong and would lay his life down without hesitation, even for someone he just met, literally (i say this going off some of the movies and episodes/fillers i've seen). If i were to be a weak, poor soul being attacked by some douche bag ninja, there wouldn't be anyone else i'd want in my corner to save me. I think this is part of the reason why he is able to change people's hearts and have such a profound impact on those that he comes across. His determination is only outweighed by his kindness, his acceptance of others without being judgmental. I'm sure if you met Naruto(i know its just anime), you would never forget him for as long as you lived. he is just one of those people, and i think i strive to be like him. i want to have the kind of heart he has, to have such will power and determination, but also to never let kindness leave your heart, and to be able to balance it all with humility.

also this isn't something they focus on much, but damn, he is a pretty smart guy. haha

Jiraiya:

WARNING: SPOILERS.
Jiraiya is just a great character over all. he is funny, serious and incredible strong, no surprise as he is one of the 3 legendary sannin. Also in Jiraiya we have a connection between pain, the 4th hokage and naruto among others. I'm trying to pin point what exactly makes me like him so much, but i'm having a hard time. Maybe it is because he was such a great father figure to naruto (among others, again. he was just so great). I think there isnt one or two significant reasons i could point to and use to explain why Jiraiya is among my top 3. I think what it is, is that, instead of a few significant reasons, there are simply many, many small reasons that, when added up, come to be great and wonderful enough for him to have won me over and made the list.

The day that Jiraiya died, i was dealt a heavy blow. the sadness was immense. his death is perhaps one of the biggest and hardest to have ever hit me as far as anime, TV shows, books, and movies go.

but i guess we cant always get what we want

 

[Yonko7]

I'll talk about how Naruto affected me. (or rather Anime in general)

During my running seasons, we had brutal workouts. Somedays your body and spirit are broken, because of the constant pressure, pain, etc. When these moments occurred to me, I always thought of Rock Lee, Naruto, Goku [you get the point], and how hard they train for what they strive for.

Also, since I started watching the show back in my youth, I grew with the characters, as they did with me.

Hide

Hide

When Sakura said that she loved Naruto, during the meeting between the Kages, I knew that something was up (even though, we, the viewers already knew). When Pain was destroying the the Hidden Leaf Village, and how he viewed the world: it all made sense why he did what he did.

It also helps, that the fighting is superb in Naruto!!

 

[v]

Naruto is now not only from a prestigious clan, but also the son of the previous hokage. Not only does he have a pedigree, he has arguably the MOST impressive pedigree of any character in the series in that both of his parents were top 20 ever level strong. Not even Sasuke from the OMG UCHIHA CLAN can boast having both a clan background AND a Hokage's genius blood running through his veins. Not only that, but every single one of Naruto's signature abilities (high chakra, kyuubi, rasengan, and now hiraishin) are derived from his parents in some way. He isn't a "genius of hard work" anymore, he just won the family lottery. His signature move (Rasengan/Oodama Rasengan/Fuuton: Rasenshuriken) is even just an advancement on his father's best offensive technique.

Contrast: has Rock Lee saved the village from Akatsuki, or even beaten Neji that we know of? No, he got curbstomped by Kisame along with his team-mates.

My point is: From a thematic perspective, Naruto has not only lost sight of its original ideals, but has reversed them entirely. It isn't about hard work, or even who teaches you, since Naruto dropped Sennin Mode like a hot potato once he got Complete Kyuubi Cloak. It's all about who your parents are.

 

[vonFiedler]

Naruto's ideals changed as the character grew. He's put in the hard work. During the Pain arc the question became what to do with it. How to break the cycle of revenge that the land has been stuck in.

 

[Ninahaza]

Naruto is now not only from a prestigious clan, but also the son of the previous hokage. Not only does he have a pedigree, he has arguably the MOST impressive pedigree of any character in the series in that both of his parents were top 20 ever level strong. Not even Sasuke from the OMG UCHIHA CLAN can boast having both a clan background AND a Hokage's genius blood running through his veins. Not only that, but every single one of Naruto's signature abilities (high chakra, kyuubi, rasengan, and now hiraishin) are derived from his parents in some way. He isn't a "genius of hard work" anymore, he just won the family lottery. His signature move (Rasengan/Oodama Rasengan/Fuuton: Rasenshuriken) is even just an advancement on his father's best offensive technique.

Contrast: has Rock Lee saved the village from Akatsuki, or even beaten Neji that we know of? No, he got curbstomped by Kisame along with his team-mates.

My point is: From a thematic perspective, Naruto has not only lost sight of its original ideals, but has reversed them entirely. It isn't about hard work, or even who teaches you, since Naruto dropped Sennin Mode like a hot potato once he got Complete Kyuubi Cloak. It's all about who your parents are.

yes, please lets look at the characters now and just completely forget were they came from, what they did, and had to do to get to where they are now. lets just look at the cool parent abilities they have unlocked now

also rock lee hasnt gotten enough screen time to show how much ass he can kick, or how much he has grown (much like many other characters). in fact rock lee hasnt even been pushed to his limits like he was as a youth, wtf do we even know about him now?

 

[v]

Naruto didn't have to work THAT hard:
He mastered kage bunshin in one day
Treeclimbing in a day or so
Waterwalking in seconds once Jiraiya removed Orochimaru's five element seal
Summoning in one month
Rasengan in a week
Learned rasenshuriken in a few days, mastered it offscreen
Sennin mode in a pretty short period of time

Naruto SAYS he has to work really hard for everything (other than maybe his 2.5 years with Jiraiya during which time he learned...Oodama Rasengan??), but when push comes to shove everything actually seems to come pretty naturally. The "rejected child" thing is also kind of overstated, as he had Iruka and Sandaime as parent figures and wasn't a streetchild or anything. His abilities were all practically handed to him, and most of the village already acknowledged him by the end of the third arc.

edit: we saw lee get his shit wrecked by Kisame in like a half chapter of fighting...the same Kisame Guy one-shotted; PLUS all Lee can do is Taijutsu. How is that going to help against Susanoo or Rasenshuriken or any of a dozen other jutsu of mass destruction? Even with his megaspeed, apparently hand signs are almost-instantaneous according to Sasuke/Deidara fight, so Lee can't even just get the jump on someone before they bust out some superattack and rape him to death

 

[Ninahaza]

well you know what Vader, maybe you should read my post more (the one with my 3 favorite characters). you will notice i gave the hard work card to Rock lee, read narutos part a little more and you'll see which card i gave him. please read the whole part about him until the end before coming back.

also just because Rock lee is at a disadvantage doesn't mean he has to give up and go home. he chose to fight on, work harder then most "gifted" ninja, he chose to move on and give every fiber of his being to becoming the best HE CAN BE. that is part of why he is in my top 3. again, please read my post. If only more people were like him in this world, who knows were the human race would be today.

Never give up, never back down, be the best you can be, fuck what everyone else says. you have to decide for yourself

 

[v]

then it doesn't address my point that, thematically, Naruto has lost its way and Naruto isn't a genius of hard work or anything like how he was supposed to be, he's a product of superior genetics

and Naruto standing up to people isn't really inspiring imo...he's always had the MOST chakra of any character (unlimited) so he can just outlast anyone (which, prior to his acquisition of Rasengan, is pretty much exactly how he fights) and is also inherited from his father

if LEE was the main character and actually managed to do some kickass taijutsu shit then Naruto would make more sense in terms of 1) power level (if the main char's best attack is a flying kick, enemies will be accordingly weaker and NOT change the landscape with on jutsu) 2) themes (Lee is ACTUALLY a product of nothing but hard work) 3) fuck Naruto and his Kyuubi bullshit

 

[Ninahaza]

yeah i'm sure Naruto has always gone into his fights knowing he had a shit ton of chakra, that some fox will magically come to his aid with super awesome additional chakra and abilities, and that he'll just be fine. i am sure whenever he stands up after getting the shit kicked out of him, its because he just blinked, completely healed, and chakra kicked in. I'm sure in all his trembling moments, all the times he refused to stay down, i'm sure will power and his determination never hand a role in it. I'm sure if we gave someone even more chakra than naruto, he would have also always never stayed down, he would have fought on and never just run off/give up. one's personality has nothing to do with his actions and choices right? not even in fights right? it simply comes down to "i have more chakra, lol, /troll face. i'll just keep coming at you, take punishment, hope that i get one good punch in and win". i think that you too are missing my point here Vader.

at least we are now just down to Naruto instead of Naruto and Rock lee.

also i am trying to answer my well thread questions, but you are making it very difficult for me. You know that i cant walk away from this :(

Edit: also didn't Naruto even at one point try to kick the kyuubi bullshit out? he never wanted to rely on the kyuubi power because he could hurt the ones he loved or something?
also i think Naruto could have been defeated many times actually. he isnt the only one in the series to have such a huge chakra base, and still lose

Edit 2: i now realize the road this is heading down, and the potential for it to ruin this thread entirely if we travel down that road far enough (please dont lock this vader). I'll have to respond when i have the time for this (again, still typing up the second batch of answers for the well, lol).
VADER YOU CANNOT WIN, BELIEVE IT

 

[v]

yeah i'm sure Naruto has always gone in into his fights knowing he had a shit ton of chakra, that some fox will magically come to his aid with super awesome additional chakra and abilities, and that he'll just be fine. i am sure whenever he stands up after getting the shit kicked out of him, its because he just blinked, completely healed, and chakra kicked in

it happens every difficult fight so yeah he does know, even Jiraiya, who knew Naruto for less than a month, knew it would save him when he chucked him off the cliff to summon Gamabunta...plus Naruto started DEMANDING chakra from the fox later on. the first time with Haku, sure, fine, it's understandable Naruto not knowing, but that fight wasn't willpower, Naruto and Sasuke were just physically incapable of running away. basically every non-shikamaru character refuses to give up on a fight because if they lose, they die...not one (non-shika) character has ever said "welp, that's the end, I guess my goose is cooked and I'd better stop fighting!!"

Kishi just constantly has characters think "MY GOD, HE HAS AN IRON WILL"

some of Naruto's "iron will" moments:
-Stabbing himself in the hand to remove poison
-Sneaking into Haku's ice mirrors (?) kind of more like a dumb fuck-up on his part
-Fighting Orochimaru in the valley of death...though he didn't know who he was and had no reason to fear him other than him having ambushed Naruto
-Rasengan training, which as previously mentioned probably had to with a genetic predisposition the same way Uchiha Patriarch says all Uchiha can use Goukyakyuu
-Fighting Sasuke at VoE; not REALLY iron will because he had no other option, and the Kyuubi gave him a hand

other characters' iron will moments:

-chouji takes the butterfly pills knowing full well the effects are fatal without a Nara to help

-kakashi whips out Raikiri the second he sees Orochimaru in the Chuunin exams, knowing full well Oro can rape him in five seconds flat and fights Pain despite being hopelessly outmatched and knowing it

-Itachi kills his family, lets himself die by Sasuke's hand, etc

-Jiraiya wills himself back to life, crawls out of the water, and figures out an impossible-to-decode-unless-you're-Naruto cipher to hide a message in and then brands it on a frog's back after having fought what thought to be the most powerful ability ever period, not to mention fighting Orochimaru with gimped Chakra control and not knowing if he would have to also fight Tsunade

-Deidara up and suicides in an effort to finish off Sasuke

-Orochimaru comes back from the dead after hiding out in Sasuke for weeks, manages to transfer his essence despite his arms not having souls, etc

-Konohamaru fights Painguys despite his only techniques being Oirke, Harem, and Rasengan

-Kimmimaro moves his body entirely through willpower in his relatively brief living appearance, despite his crippling illness that had apparently kept him bedridden. if that doesn't top any other act of willpower in the series, I'm not sure what does

the list goes on, the point being that the only reason Naruto's determination is considered impressive is because he screams about NEVER GIVING UP!!! IT'S MY NINDOUTTEBAYO and other characters, in sloppy exposition, think "HOW HASNT HE GIVEN UP YET.........?"

 

[TheValkyries]

ITT: Vader tells us that Naruto is a poorly written thematic story. In other news, Water has recently been discovered as wet, and bears have been spotted shitting in the woods.

Criticizing a storyline that most everyone knows to be terrible is completely asinine. You're only going to incite anger in fans of the series who are such not for Kishi's mastery of writing, but for the emotional content, and the overall ideology. Even if the ideology is poorly supported throughout, it's obvious what the attempt is and that's really all that matters.

If you want to go on a private crusade and try and make everyone understand that Kishi is a bad writer, then go for it. But you're not telling anyone anything new, and it's not going to contribute to positive conversation.

 

[v]

sorry for having a discussion in the discussion thread?

 

[Shinryu]

...moving on, my top 3 favorites are the following:

1. Hashirama Senju

Ever since I first saw mokuton whipped out, pretty much always thought he was far cooler than anyone else in Naruto. And of course, in terms of power, he defeated Madara at full power with the kyuubi under his control as well, and Sage aside, was likely the most powerful character out there.

2. Rock Lee

Funny as hell (intentional or not) and kicks a lot of ass without ninjitsu or anything. Who doesn't like someone who comes in and kicks ass the old fashioned way? Wish they gave him more battles and victories, as it is kinda piss poor I always thought how he always puts up a good fight, but then gets overwhelmed and needs to be "rescued"

3. Jiraiya

Pervy sage. Nuff said.

 

[Matthew]

I just want Kakashi to become hokage :c

 

[Yonko7]

I just want Kakashi to become hokage :c

He was for a bit ;)