Nature Swap [Talonflame unbanned!]

[pipasonze]

Alright, I'll share the best team I've made so far. This offense team isn't complicated in terms of teambuilding, it's basically a Shuckle and a bunch of offensive mons.

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Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Encore
- Final Gambit
Shuckle is a lead with the purpose of setting up Stealth Rock and Sticky Web. It can do it effectively thanks to Sturdy and its base 230 Speed. I chose to sacrifice its Special Defense instead of Defense to take less damage from priority moves. Mental Herb is used to beat Taunt and Encore users. Encore prevents opposing pokemon from setting up, and Final Gambit prevents Rapid Spin and Defog from being used and lets Shuckle die without losing momentum after it has done its job. It also deals a lot of damage to offensive threats if it is at full health.
Other options: Rocky Helmet, Knock Off>Final Gambit.

Azumarill @ Splash Plate
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
Azumarill is used because of its very high Attack stat thanks to Huge Power, access to STAB priority and good defensive typing. I run Splash Plate to power up Aqua Jet without getting choice locked or suffering Life Orb recoil. It may also give the illusion of holding a Choice Band. Knock Off used to be there mostly for Chansey, but it still has utility in removing items from bulky pokemon.Azumarill is a vital check to Kyurem-B on this team.
Other options: Choice Band, Assault Vest.

Hoopa @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
Hoopa is here for its great wallbreaking power, as well as its great 130 base speed, which makes it a fine revenge killer. It has perfect coverage between its three attacks and can boost when facing defensive pokemon to break them. Hoopa is quite frail however and doesn't offer relevant resistances other than its Fighting Immunity.

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare
Serperior checks Water-types and can attempt to break stall with its Contrary Leaf Storms. With this spread it has respectable bulk and impressive immediate power. However Serperior has to sacrifice its Speed but, with Sticky Web, it can outspeed a good deal of pokemon. Dragon Pulse and HP Fire provide coverage, and Glare cripples any faster threat and ensures Serperior outspeeds them on the next turn.
Other Options: Leech Seed, Substitute

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
Mega Metagross trades its Defense for an amazing Speed stat, even before mega evolving. This set runs both STAB moves plus Hammer Arm for coverage on Steel-types and Ice Punch , which is mostly for Landorus-T. It fits here because of its offensive prowess and numerous resistances; in particular, it is important for beating Fairy-types.
Other Options: Hone Claws, Earthquake

Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Honchkrow has one of the strongest priority moves in the game, which, in conjunction with Moxie and its improved 105 base Speed, lets it prey on offensive teams. The power of its Brave Bird is not to be underestimated either. Honchkrow can end games very fast if it gets a single kill, but has trouble against pokemon with heavy physical bulk.

I'm fine with this team being added to samples if it's good enough. I would also like to hear suggestions about it if you have any.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Alright, I'll share the best team I've made so far. This offense team isn't complicated in terms of teambuilding, it's basically a Shuckle and a bunch of offensive mons.

Hide

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Encore
- Final Gambit
Shuckle is a lead with the purpose of setting up Stealth Rock and Sticky Web. It can do it effectively thanks to Sturdy and its base 230 Speed. I chose to sacrifice its Special Defense instead of Defense to take less damage from priority moves. Mental Herb is used to beat Taunt and Encore users. Encore prevents opposing pokemon from setting up, and Final Gambit prevents Rapid Spin and Defog from being used and lets Shuckle die without losing momentum after it has done its job. It also deals a lot of damage to offensive threats if it is at full health.
Other options: Rocky Helmet, Knock Off>Final Gambit.

Azumarill @ Splash Plate
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
Azumarill is used because of its very high Attack stat thanks to Huge Power, access to STAB priority and good defensive typing. I run Splash Plate to power up Aqua Jet without getting choice locked or suffering Life Orb recoil. It may also give the illusion of holding a Choice Band. Knock Off used to be there mostly for Chansey, but it still has utility in removing items from bulky pokemon.Azumarill is a vital check to Kyurem-B on this team.
Other options: Choice Band, Assault Vest.

Hoopa @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
Hoopa is here for its great wallbreaking power, as well as its great 130 base speed, which makes it a fine revenge killer. It has perfect coverage between its three attacks and can boost when facing defensive pokemon to break them. Hoopa is quite frail however and doesn't offer relevant resistances other than its Fighting Immunity.

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare
Serperior checks Water-types and can attempt to break stall with its Contrary Leaf Storms. With this spread it has respectable bulk and impressive immediate power. However Serperior has to sacrifice its Speed but, with Sticky Web, it can outspeed a good deal of pokemon. Dragon Pulse and HP Fire provide coverage, and Glare cripples any faster threat and ensures Serperior outspeeds them on the next turn.
Other Options: Leech Seed, Substitute

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
Mega Metagross trades its Defense for an amazing Speed stat, even before mega evolving. This set runs both STAB moves plus Hammer Arm for coverage on Steel-types and Ice Punch , which is mostly for Landorus-T. It fits here because of its offensive prowess and numerous resistances; in particular, it is important for beating Fairy-types.
Other Options: Hone Claws, Earthquake

Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Honchkrow has one of the strongest priority moves in the game, which, in conjunction with Moxie and its improved 105 base Speed, lets it prey on offensive teams. The power of its Brave Bird is not to be underestimated either. Honchkrow can end games very fast if it gets a single kill, but has trouble against pokemon with heavy physical bulk.

I'm fine with this team being added to samples if it's good enough. I would also like to hear suggestions about it if you have any.

Thank you for the team. Tagging nv to add it in the second post.

My suggestion would be... replacing one of the mons with a Fire type so that you get an ever so popular FWG trio I guess. But overall I think it's pretty solid.

 

[Dybala jr]

By: ★Centi★
Blissey is replace of chansey xD

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Import

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Specs
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast

Stats: 125/95/100/120/90/170

Ninjask @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Protect
- X-Scissor
- Night Slash
- Defog

Stats: 61/160/45/50/50/90

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

Stats: 255/10/75/10/135/55

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Blast
- Pin Missile
- Bullet Seed
- Close Combat

Stats: 80/185/115/40/75/105

Metagross @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earthquake
- Hammer Arm
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt

Stats: 80/135/70/95/90/130

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock

Stats: 95/65/65/110/60/130

 

[Jwoystijck]

I'm liking this crazy herd of a meta where everything is upside-down

I think Modest regular Sharpedo seems a lot better here and it can actually go modest without losing to speed-boosting natured mons thanks to Speed-boost(not tried yet though).
Also, it should be noted that turning a phys mon into a special one, like Weavile, can be quite detrimental as frail mons became slower. For example, Modest Weavile get outsped by Timid Volcanion and other mons with 110 base speed, which isn't even that high. Not to say that such a switch would render them useless, but at least their role should be reconsidered

 

[Jerry311]

I love how many sets kyub has here. it can run a bulky set, (bold or calm) because it gets roost, it can run a faster version of its normal set, (jolly) it can run a special set (modest) or even a super fast specs set (timid). SO MANY OPTIONS!

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Since the original sample teams had a surplus of Chansey, I'll share my very aggressive team that I used to get within the top 20 of this ladder.

Machamp + Kyruem-Black Stallbreaker team

Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Morning Sun
- Baton Pass

I saw the whole stallbreaker Espeon from the thread, and I decided to give it Baton Pass capabilities. This gives the team all sorts of nasty capabilities, in addition to just being a bulky Psychic type in general. Stored Power smacks things surprisingly hard, even after only two boosts.

Machamp (M) @ Black Belt
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Machamp's just incredible, and puts his previous Dynamic Punching incarnation to shame. Focus Blast hits really hard with a Black Belt (which makes you able to bluff Specs), and Vaccum Wave just puts a severe dent in offensive teams. Fire Blast and Hidden Power are there to hit other threats harder. With a couple of Calm Minds passed to it, this monster can easily sweep teams, and becomes even better at felling Blissey. Just don't expect to take as many hits as you'd like.


Kyurem-Black @ Choice Specs
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball

This is just plain nuts, especially near the end of a match. Hits 493 speed, outspeeding everything outside of the metal menaces in the tier over 500 Special Attack, and can nuke everything outside of the most powerful walls. With a few Calm Minds, even Blissey cannot handle constant Ice Beams.

Aggron @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Base 180 speed is really fast, and is perfect for shutting any lead down not named Shuckle or Steelix with taunt, and sets up your own rocks. Liechi Berry ensures that most sweepers will fall before its attacks. Sturdy makes Aggron that much better at halting a sweep, and turning a match into your favor.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fire Punch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Roost

This is standard Bulky Zard X, except for the addition of Substitute, which suddenly works really well for blocking status, and just making Charizard a pest. The EVs on this are not idealized, and some points should go into speed to creep other base 100 speed defensive walls wishing to status Charizard.

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head

Bisharp's here to deter Psychics (and sometimes Clefable) from running through this team. It's pretty standard. outside of the sash, and has been really good at smacking the (mostly) physically frail meta around.

Also, if you really want people to dislike you, use Bulky Impish Charizard Y. It might be more passive than usual, but it will stop any physical sweeper lacking a rock move. The set for my Zard X should also work decently for that purpose.

 

[Shavedbear]

Here to share my underrated Cloyster check, Bulky RestTalk Gyarados

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Waterfall
- Roar

 

[DreamBig]

I honestly don't think you can take out blissey without entirely dedicating one monster and wasting a trapping set on it...

Chansey with eviolite's real stats are 642/327/463 (with 4 hp 252+def 252 special def) or 704/327/370 (with 252 hp 252+def and 4 special def)

Blissey with leftovers 651/273/369 714/273/307

I think Blissey should honestly get banned too, it's pretty ridiculous to leave blissey there after banning chansey.

A tricky knock off on a randomly-now-physical-attacker, as well as a good predict and a trick would be great ways to put chansey back in its place, if it were legal. Chansey obviously never wants to get tricked or knocked off, so they tend to invest all in defense and special defense, and once knocked off it misses the HP a lot as well as being less effective as a wish passers.

BLISSEY once knocked off, obviously is way better than chansey meaning it doesn't have to worry about the probable ex-special-attackers-who-went-physical, and it honestly can come out vs whatever it wants whenever it wants. If tricked it can take the exact same hits, and people can run 252 hp 252 def for huge wish passes and to have nearly identical def/special def, then blissey can fuck around trying to predict a good knock off to come out on and free him from his scarf or band or specs.

CLEARLY I agree with chansey ban, but I honestly cannot understand why Blissey is still in.

 

[FOZ369]

Here to share my underrated Cloyster check, Bulky RestTalk Gyarados

If you're having trouble with Cloyster (or any setup sweeper in general) you should use choice scarf Ditto. It's fun to use and it's very useful in this metagame. Is a Pokemon too strong or too fast for your team to handle? Just use Ditto! Are boosting physical Keldeos, Azumarills, Serperiors, and those fast but physically fragile rock-types bringing you down? Just use Ditto! Watch this battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/natureswap-412708576 And watch this one too: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/natureswap-412400469

(You may have to fodder something off to get Ditto in safely, and if they have a substitute up, you will have to remove it prior to bringing Ditto in.)

 

[Vengeance417]

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Protect
- Bug Bite
- Aerial Ace
- Swords Dance

61/160/45/50/50/90

This is probably not all that great in the long run due to hazards/priority, but with the right support, this thing's a nightmare. A Pokemon with a base 160 attack, SD and Speed Boost. This thing will effortlessly sweep teams, but the conditions have to be just right, meaning that it needs a hefty amount of support to work. It's very fun to use, though.

 

[Pipotchi]

Heres a team that can be added for the sample teams. Its a hyper offense team and has been successful vs different matchups. I think new players would not struggle to use it either.

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Waterfall

Cloyster @ Choice Band
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Rock Blast
- Explosion

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Lax Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off

Steelix-Mega @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Taunt

(This could be a specs machamp too for good results)
Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Switcheroo
- Nature Power


In summary: this team revolves around Azumarill, who imo is one of the strongest pokemon in the tier. After a BD, Azu can go to town. Azumarill and Cloyster often share similar counters, so banded Cloyster lures in those counters expecting a shell smash and punches a big hole, as well as being a strong wallbreaker in general. Magnezone traps steels for the above 2, as well as dealing with the water types they hate. Also it importantly can outspeed and kill 170 speed Kyurem-B and Cloyster at +2. Tentacruel is my own Azumarill answer. The Lax set is used in order to both minimize the chance of Azu breaking through as well as to outspeed slower problematic wallbreakers and having a better shot at spinning. Mega Steelix is a suicide lead and only outsped by Shuckle, abusing sturdy to begin with before mega evolving. When not playing against opposing offense, Taunt + Steel typing can be a great asset to break through passive walls. Whimsicott is another wallbreaker and priority user, having the most powerful special priority in the game to use against other fast teams, moonblast to smack slower teams, and switcheroo to cripple walls. Basically the tools are there to deal with offense, balance, and I think played carefully has a chance against anything.

 

[Jerry311]

Heres a team that can be added for the sample teams. Its a hyper offense team and has been successful vs different matchups. I think new players would not struggle to use it either.

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Waterfall

Cloyster @ Choice Band
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Rock Blast
- Explosion

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Lax Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off

Steelix-Mega @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Switcheroo
- Nature Power


In summary: this team revolves around Azumarill, who imo is one of the strongest pokemon in the tier. After a BD, Azu can go to town. Azumarill and Cloyster often share similar counters, so banded Cloyster lures in those counters expecting a shell smash and punches a big hole, as well as being a strong wallbreaker in general. Magnezone traps steels for the above 2, as well as dealing with the water types they hate. Also it importantly can outspeed and kill 170 speed Kyurem-B and Cloyster at +2. Tentacruel is my own Azumarill answer. The Lax set is used in order to both minimize the chance of Azu breaking through as well as to outspeed slower problematic wallbreakers and having a better shot at spinning. Mega Steelix is a suicide lead and only outsped by Shuckle, abusing sturdy to begin with before mega evolving. When not playing against opposing offense, Taunt + Steel typing can be a great asset to break through passive walls. Whimsicott is another wallbreaker and priority user, having the most powerful special priority in the game to use against other fast teams, moonblast to smack slower teams, and switcheroo to cripple walls. Basically the tools are there to deal with offense, balance, and I think played carefully has a chance against anything.

wouldn't nature power turn into tri attack? whats so great about that? normal isn't the best coverage, sure the status effects can be nice and it is priority, but it just doesn't seem that amazing.

 

[Pipotchi]

edit: I found it hit harder than any other mon on the special side with access to priority as well as wallbreaking ability, so I went with it. but you could always swap it out for another move or another pokemon. I know Machamp for instance is a great pokemon to ease the Kyub problem and wallbreaks really well in general

 

[DarkSlay]

Skarmory @ Red Card
Ability: Sturdy
EV's: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Hasty
Moveset:
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Brave Bird / Iron Head

This is a very effective HO Lead set I have been using as of late, designed to guarantee getting up at least one or two layers of hazards on all non-Magic Bounce Pokemon while also ensuring that no team can get a free boost on Skarmory. A traditional HO Lead Skarmory uses Custap Berry, but thanks to its Hasty nature, which gives it an amazing 140 Speed stat, it can often out-speed most Pokemon after Sturdy kicks in and guarantee an additional layer of hazards. Instead, Red Card punishes any attempt of hitting Skarmory for damage, and is guaranteed to kick in thanks to Sturdy sans Mold Breaker/Terravolt. The choice between Brave Bird and Iron Head is team-dependent, since Brave Bird provides the hardest hitting STAB option and can KO numerous things that Red Card switches in, like Heracross, while Iron Head can 3HKO the standard Lead Shuckle set as well as OHKO Mega Diancie.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I think this meta needs to be explored more. So many potential viable (and really good) sets but it's barely explored, especially lower tier mons. Here are some sets that may "trigger" your creativity.

Screw Contact (Volcarona) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flame Body
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Lax Nature
- Quicer Dance
- Roost
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz

stats: 85/60/105/135/65/100

When your opponent touches you with a contact move, you get a 30% burn chance + recoil. Really good switch ins for contact move users like Mega Metagross, Scizor and basically many Knock Off users. Flame Body is 30% chance but I burn opponent more often than 30% I think, just like Scald burns.

Flying Annoyance (Tornadus-Therian) @ Assault Vast
Ability: Regenerator
EV's: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (idk what's the best spread for this)
Relaxed Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Superpower

stats: 79/100/121/110/90/80

You know Tangrowth? You know Slowbro? You know Alomomola? Those are some of the most annoying mon because they are hard to kill, mainly because they have Regenerator and being bulky. Tornadus Therian is fast, but not bulky in staandard. Here, it becomes the Flying version of annoyance like Tangrowth, Alomomola, etc. And it got U-turn too to be more annoying. The only thing that it needs to keep out is Stealth Rock since it can't really recover much HP with Regenerator if Stealth Rock if on the field. But hey, the frail Tornadus is excellent in standard even with rock weakness, how about here?

PU? (Ursaring) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EV's: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch/Protect

stats: 90/130/75/55/75/75

This have been brought up in previous thread iirc but I think I need to mention it once more here. Ursaring is slow in standard, which is why it's a PU material. 55 Speed can't even outspeed Latios after Quick Feet, so it's pretty useless. But here, Jolly 75 Speed with Quick Feet reaches 409 Speed, which outspeed up to 136 Speed with a +Speed Nature. Considering it has always been powerful, I think it's notable here now that it's fast.

Stat Switch is back (Sylveon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Baton Pass

stats: 95/65/65/110/60/130

Anyone remember Stat Switch? This is the exact same Sylveon as in stat switch. It's fast and with Specs, it hits extremely hard. If you want to run a Special Fairy attacker but your Mega Gardevoir slot is taken, this is a good replacement I think.

 

[yoman5]

I think this meta needs to be explored more. So many potential viable (and really good) sets but it's barely explored, especially lower tier mons. Here are some sets that may "trigger" your creativity.

Stat Switch is back (Sylveon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Baton Pass

stats: 95/65/65/110/60/130

Anyone remember Stat Switch? This is the exact same Sylveon as in stat switch. It's fast and with Specs, it hits extremely hard. If you want to run a Special Fairy attacker but your Mega Gardevoir slot is taken, this is a good replacement I think.

I've actually already played with this, and I've found that
1: hp ground is better than hp fire in this meta, as most 4x effectively hit mons will actually outspeed and kill you or just bpunch you. (Also aggron is hit harder by ground than fire)
2: batonpass is actually basically never used, and that quick attack is actually just a better 4th slot, as you basically never use either, but the niche use case of qa is better.
(Alternate 4th slot on less offensive teams that still want random utility: wish. Risk only if you actually can read your opponents well.)

 

[Hoping4megasceptile]

Stall is ridiculously good in this meta, with mega aggron getting 140 special defense and Blissey getting 75 defense just to name two great examples. I'm using a stall team, and one of my pokemon with the best attacking stat is mandibuzz as i ran brave though.

 

[thesecondbest]

Thought I would drop off my latest stall team:

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Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Vacuum Wave
- Roost
- Flash Cannon
- Defog

The defogger and cloyster counter.

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Magic Coat/Mirror Coat/Healing Wish

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed

Alo + Tangrowth is a sick defensive core. Both with regenerator and good utility moves.

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Punch

Boy is this mon bulky. 359/396/325 bulk and access to WoW, recovery, and dragon tail to stop setup sweepers. They typing isn't even that bad with defog support.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled

The OP tank itself. A bit passive, but with its insane bulk, that doesn't matter. Heal Bell and Stealth rock are great additions to a stall team

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Iron Defense

The setup sweeper. The set can't hit dark types but boy can it get bulky.

 

[nv]

The (preliminary) Viability Rankings is up!

s/o to Chopin Alkaninoff HeadsILoseTailsYouWin dragonite drake Grains of Salt and The Ruins of Alpha for helping with this. :)

Feel free to discuss certain Pokemon, and their ranks, and point out any that we may have missed :)

 

[thesecondbest]

Offensive regular aggron is pretty legit. I don't know where to rank it but it shouldn't be unranked.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Because there was Cloyster debate and it wasn't finished last time, let's continue.

I still believe Cloyster is S rank. 180 base Attack and 125 BP STAB with the best boosting move in the game, it barely has counters. Sure, maybe every people prepared for it, but people forgot to realize that Banded sets often overpower the supposed counters of the Shell Smash set. This is just my opinion and people may have different perspective on this.

Also, where's Thundurus I?

 

[Anna says hi]

Offensive regular aggron is pretty legit. I don't know where to rank it but it shouldn't be unranked.

Regular Aggron is ranked in B-.

 

[xJownage]

I honestly don't think you can take out blissey without entirely dedicating one monster and wasting a trapping set on it...

Chansey with eviolite's real stats are 642/327/463 (with 4 hp 252+def 252 special def) or 704/327/370 (with 252 hp 252+def and 4 special def)

Blissey with leftovers 651/273/369 714/273/307

I think Blissey should honestly get banned too, it's pretty ridiculous to leave blissey there after banning chansey.

A tricky knock off on a randomly-now-physical-attacker, as well as a good predict and a trick would be great ways to put chansey back in its place, if it were legal. Chansey obviously never wants to get tricked or knocked off, so they tend to invest all in defense and special defense, and once knocked off it misses the HP a lot as well as being less effective as a wish passers.

BLISSEY once knocked off, obviously is way better than chansey meaning it doesn't have to worry about the probable ex-special-attackers-who-went-physical, and it honestly can come out vs whatever it wants whenever it wants. If tricked it can take the exact same hits, and people can run 252 hp 252 def for huge wish passes and to have nearly identical def/special def, then blissey can fuck around trying to predict a good knock off to come out on and free him from his scarf or band or specs.

CLEARLY I agree with chansey ban, but I honestly cannot understand why Blissey is still in.

still waiting for an answer on this. We haven't even gotten a response, just been ignored. As long as new players get pushed away by shit like this, we will see yet another omotm where people stop playing after 2 weeks.

 

[readytolose]

I haven't been playing this much (Follow The Leader has been attracting all my attention, plus I hate blobs) but I figured I'd put in my two-cents about the viability rankings, and pokemon I've used that are worth discussing but aren't already on there. And just to generate more discussion on these pokemon in general.

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Another pokemon that doesn't have much changed for it, but still failed to disappoint. Breloom is actually kinda neat cause it matches up well against a lot of common threats. It can beat Azumarill and Diggersby in a 1v1 situation, can break through Blissey, or revenge Tyranitar, a weakened Kyu-B or Mega Aggron, or other fast Steel types. And Spore switchins like Salamence. A lot of the metagame can beat it but it handles some top threats fairly well so I figured it was worth mentioning it. I don't think it's as good is at is in OU but still worth mentioning, it definitely seems good for certain offensive builds. It's still better than the other Grass/Fighting types tbh. Maybe C rank for starters, but I think it can be really effective in the right hands.

I think it has a place in this metagame, even though Lando-T can become bulkier than it. It can swap attack for special defense to become considerably bulkier which lets it check a few things better, although it loses out on damage output. It seems like it could make good support for Mega Garchomp, who is somewhat improved, or Excadrill, who is basically the same, or for Mega Steelix, who can actually abuse its ability now, and actually seems better than Excadrill. Aside from its support capabilities, it can handle Steel-types to an extent, although it struggles to do much back. It seems worthy of C- rank maybe, I don't know.

Steelix seems outclassed by Aggron, Skarmory, Forretress, Shuckle..... The list goes on. It doesn't really offer much that other Sturdy pokemon don't have. Mega Steelix, on the other hand, seems like it could be a niche choice in this metagame. While it does have inferior stats to Mega Aggron, it's still tied for fastest unboosted Pokemon in the metagame, which counts for something. But it differs from Mega Aggron in that it has STAB on Earthquake, which gives it a pretty effective STAB combo, and it has Sand Force, which it can abuse if partnered with Hippowdon or Tyranitar. I think its one of the best pokemon for "sand offense" (if you can call it that). So yeah, I think it should definitely be ranked. Steelix can be D rank, but Mega Steelix can be C rank? Once again I'd like to see what other people think.

You might want to put this in D-rank so newcomers aren't so inclined to use it, cause it seems relatively common on the low ladder. It seems okay on paper, but with Blissey being so ubiquitous it really can't do much of anything. Maybe if Blissey gets the axe it will find a place, but right now it's not really that useful at all. It's too slow to use Rock Polish, has pretty mediocre coverage, and an average type, and just really doesn't do all that much.

Has anyone even mentioned this thing yet? This metagame seems like it could be favorable to it. After an Agility it outspeeds basically everything and can pummel stuff. It has pretty similar coverage to Kyurem-B, but one of the main advantages it has is that it isn't weak to Bullet Punch, meaning Metagross and Scizor can't revenge kill it. Even without Agility, it achieves a pretty good speed tier that puts it ahead of Keldeo, Azumarill, etc. It has a better matchup against Steel types in general although it is a bit reliant on an inaccurate Focus Blast. Still though, I think it holds some merit. I'm not saying you should put it on the viability ranking, but maybe someone else can give it a try and see what they think.

 

[Lennon1398]

Haven't seen anyone mention them yet so I might as well do it myself.

Golem @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Explosion/Stealth Rock

Can't be OHKO'd by anything but Cloyster and Mold Breaker users, Hits like a truck on steroids, has priority. This monster can 1-2HKO half of the pokemon used in the tier and often lives past the kill to severely damage or knock out another. I personally run Explosion instead of Stealth Rock for the potential emergency OHKO on something you need gone and I'll just say this, nothing that has been hit by Golem's Explosion has survived it.