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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Lee, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Ferrouswheel

    Ferrouswheel

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    It's not just you, I use a similar set, and it makes me think that Salamence has some balance issues.
  2. Ferrouswheel

    Ferrouswheel

    Joined:
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    [​IMG]
    Jolly - Technician
    Life Orb
    76 hp / 252 atk / 180 speed
    Sword Dance
    Bullet Punch
    Super Power
    Night Slash

    With the exception of CS Rotom, this set outspeeds it's normal counters by one. The loss of 35 attack hurts, but being able to outspeed Magnezone, and some varients of Rotom help a great deal. It unfortunatly won't outspeed Heatran, as heatran running max speed and a neutral nature outspeeds a max speed jolly Scizor.

    [​IMG]
    Timid - Levitate
    Life Orb / Expert Belt
    4 HP / 252 Sp. ATK / 252 Speed
    Protect
    Dracometeor / Dragon Pulse
    Surf
    HP Fire

    This is essentially Bait Latias with protect, to scout what move the opponent will use. It works the same as a MYSTA Gengar.
  3. -Jordy-

    -Jordy-

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    23
    Jumpluff? LOLWUT

    [​IMG]

    Hi -

    I noticed this set for Jumpluff wasn't in the strategy pokedex. I was looking for some reasons/advice on why this set isn't viable. Or perhaps maybe it was just was never looked at.

    [Lead]Jumpluff @ Focus Sash
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Doesn't matter
    EVs: 252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 HP
    Moveset:
    -Sleep Powder
    -Swords Dance
    -Seed Bomb
    -Aerial Ace

    Jumpluff, a physical attacker? WUT? Let alone a physical LEAD.

    Jumpluff's access to gnarly 351 Speed and Sleep Powder, allows it to easily set itself up.

    Focus sash allows for AT LEAST 1, if not more, sword's dances, even if S. Powder misses the first time `round.

    Now, while this threat can be easily dealt with (Priority moves, status, etc...), it can pose a threat early in the game which can catch your opponent off guard.

    I have tested this set a few times, and it hasn't let me down much.

    Jumpluff's mere 209 attack is boosted to a respectable 418 after ONE sword's dance. That, along with 2 STAB moves that aren't resisted by many members of the NU tier, can pose a serious threat.

    Please let me know what you think. That is what I posted here for after-all; YOUR opinions.

    Thanks~
  4. YounhaJjang

    YounhaJjang

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
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    26
    Physical Trick Zelf (Oh yeah!)

    [​IMG]

    4hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe - Adamant

    Stealth Rock
    Trick
    Explosion
    U-Turn

    U-turn from max attack Azelf hurts a lot. dealing around 47% to ScarfTars that try to switch in thinking they can get an easy KO so I usually U-turn out the first turn to scout for Pursuit users. Scarf makes you just about faster than anything and allow you to explode for major hurt before they can move. The scarf also allows you to set up Rocks before opposing Aerodactyl can taunt you and trick is good as it allows you to hit slower leads as long as your sure they don't have Scarf users that would normally eat this set alive if not for U-Turn. I've been using this as a lead for around a week and it hasn't disappointed me so far.
  5. Haunter

    Haunter 100% avocado
    is an official Team Rateris a Battle Server Administratoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Administratoris a Tutor Alumnus
    Líder máximo

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    This is a pretty standard trick Azelf lead. Adamant is usually not worth the loss in Speed as you still don't achieve any significant ohko or 2hko while you'll always lose the Speed match with scarf Jirachi, which runs Jolly.
  6. dubious

    dubious

    Joined:
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Super Special Awesome Anti-Lead Golduck!

    Golduck @ Lum Berry / Focus Sash
    Cloud Nine
    Rash (+ SpA, -SpD)
    4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Speed
    -Hydro Pump
    -Aqua Jet
    -Ice Beam / Brick Break / Protect
    -Hidden Power (Electric 70) / Hidden Power (Grass 70)

    Optional Move(s): Encore, Hypnosis

    Notes: With this set Golduck reaches a speed of 269, enough to outspeed slower pokemon like
    neutral natured Gyarados and Tyranitar. Rash is there in case of a Jolly Gyarados lead (Aqua Jet
    has a higher chance to kill it than with a Modest nature after a Hidden power). Hydro Pump+Aqua Jet annihilates
    most of the common OU leads. Hidden Power Electric helps against bulky waters and Gyarados.
    Cloud Nine is there to ruin Tyranitar and Hippowdon. Focus Sash is there in case of any critical hits.

    WIN

    Aerodactyl: Hydro Pump + Aqua Jet

    Metagross: Earthquake 49.7% - 58.6% + Bullet Punch 14.9% - 17.9%, Hydro Pump 2HKO 51.9% - 61.3%

    Jirachi: Hydro Pump 2HKO 47.6% - 56.5%

    Azelf: Hydro Pump 90.7% - 107.2% + Aqua Jet 17.5% - 20.6%

    Tyranitar: Hydro Pump 2HKO 69.8% - 82.2%

    Infernape: Protect + Hydro Pump 174.1% - 205.5% + Aqua Jet

    Heatran: Hydro Pump 113.6% - 134%

    Hippowdon: Hydro Pump 97.1% - 114.3%

    Swampert: Hydro Pump 46.5% - 55% Possible 2HKO

    Gyarados: Hidden Power Electric 82.2% - 96.7% 2HKO

    Crobat: Hydro Pump 61.7% - 73% +/or Hidden Power (Electric) 48.1% - 57%

    LOSE

    Lucario: Hydro Pump 67.2% - 79.4% + Aqua Jet 23.8% - 28%, Golduck WILL lose unless Lucaio uses Counter 1st turn

    Weavile: Golduck WILL lose to the Anti-Lead set

    Roserade: Golduck WILL lose unless Sleep Powder Misses on 1st turn or opponent uses Toxic Spikes (not to mention Golduck also HAS to be using Ice beam to get a 2HKO)
  7. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    Empoleon is very similar to that, except he can set up stealth rock. But the advantage of the duck is not EQ weakness.
  8. Aquamentus

    Aquamentus

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    Jan 13, 2009
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    With Hydro Pump's accuracy a lot of those "wins" are only happening 80% of the time, if not 64%... it is quite impressive though.
  9. dubious

    dubious

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    I know, I know. I was just trying to find a way for Golduck to be useful :pirate:
  10. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    That set is almost entirely outlassed by Empoleon. The only advantage I see is that it beats Infernape and isn't weak to EQ, and even then, a lead Vaporeon would be more effective, and that's not saying much! It can run more or less the same set, but with quick attack instead of Aqua Jet. Also, you could consider HP Grass rather than HP Ice, for swampert. Vaporeon has better special attack, and better defenses, and can so even consider other items like Lum berry to beat Smeargle, or simply leftovers, and can provide useful wish support to the team later. A weak quick attack only beats leads after sash activation, so a -Attack nature can be used.

    I think lead Vappy's going to catch on!
  11. dubious

    dubious

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    But Golduck CAN run lum berry or leftovers. It could still beat Infernape (Fake Out 12.9% - 15.6% + Close Combat 58.6% - 68.9%). The only attacks it would die from are random explosions from Metagross and Azelf (I think). Golduck could also run Damp to stop said explosions if necessary. Now that I think about it, Golduck could also run Brick Break over Protect to stop dual screeners and to kill Tyranitar while running Damp (maybe a Hydro Pump 46% - 55% + Brick Break 42.6% - 50.5% combo so as to not risk the Hydro Pump 2HKO). Golduck can also beat a Tyranitar lead, unlike the slower Empoleon, or a Heatran lead before it gets stealth rock up due to Golduck's superior speed.

    However, I do agree with the option of Hidden Power Grass to deal with Swampert leads (73.3% - 87.1% easy 2HKO). I also like the Vaporeon lead idea :toast:
  12. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    [​IMG]

    Skarmory@Life Orb/Shed Shell/Leftovers
    Adamant/Impish
    252 Hp/216 Atk/64 Def/16 Spe
    ~Swords Dance
    ~Brave Bird
    ~Steel Wing/Spikes/SR/Whirlwind
    ~Roost

    Outclassed, yet unexpected. Easily get a SD of a walled physical attacker, has access to instant recovery and natural bulk. Coverage stinks badly though.
  13. Lil Niglet

    Lil Niglet

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    Oct 10, 2009
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    On the Dragonite set, could you possibly run Heal Bell over Earthquake?
  14. mtr

    mtr

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    Why not use Lucario, really? If you like Roost, then Scizor is also a better idea. Both are able to eventually beat Skarmory and other physical walls, where this set falters. Skarmory should best be kept as a Spiker.

    Honestly, Agility Scizor is probably the best set that has been posted mainly because 1) it can handle Rotom and 2) Gyarados doesn't like coming in on Scizor due to SR+U-turn, which gives it ample opportunities to set up an Agility and pass to something like...dare I say it...Rhyperior. I guess the main problem is a Skarm switch-in, but nothing can be done about that.
  15. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    Well, you don't see SD Skarm running around, so that answers that. But the point was to be able to set up on the physical attacks that skarmory walls because they don't expect him to start swords dancing, while whirlwinding away other phazers.
  16. Orcelot005

    Orcelot005

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    What exactly does that Skarmory beat? I really can't see it doing anything worthwhile... common switch ins to Skarmory are things like Heatran and Rotom and this set can't do anything to them. I agree with mtr, just stick with the spiker sets.
  17. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Well I must say that I'm surprised that +6 max Atk Adamant Skarmory can OHKO Forretress with Brave Bird. Still, that Skarmory does absolutely nothing (and will never do anything) to its main counters. Magnezone will still trap it unless it holds Shed Shell, Heatran and Rotom-A will still outspeed it and KO it, Skarmory and Forretress will still set up Spikes/Toxic Spikes, etc. There actually was a Swords Dance set in the analysis months ago but they took it out because it didn't work.

    Edit: Ok, maybe Skarmory and Forretress can't set up Spikes since Skarmory has a chance to be 2HKO'd even when it uses Roost after you hit it with the first LO Brave Bird. Still, even if you do manage to kill thier Skarmory/Forretress, you'll have such little health that anything with a Special Fire or Electric attack that outspeeds you (which is most of the metagame BTW) can force you out and ruin your boosts. SD Scizor might be slow, but it makes up for it with priority, which Skarmory lacks.
  18. Lucalibur

    Lucalibur

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    (Togekiss) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 122 HP/16 Def/104 Spd/252 SAtk/16 SDef
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Aura Sphere/fire blast/grass knot/whatever
    - Ominous Wind/silver wind
    - Roost/wish
    - Tri Attack
    this set is made to abuse the awesome ability that is serene grace, often people will only use to abuse air slash flinch hax, but they forget togekiss got a whole set of moves with secondary effects, tri atack got a 40% chance of causing one of the 3 random status what is pretty nice and has a added bonus, got more accuracy and power then air slash, roost and wish are here for healing, because you dont want to die while abusing such a awesome ability, omnious wind hit rotom what is a pain in the ass for togekiss and got a 20% chance of boosting ALL stats, what can turn togekiss into a force that only blissey can stop! silver wind is there only if you dont like celebi, but you really should never use, its slashed has a option only because it has the same effect has O-wind, fire blast, grass knot, aura sphere and other filler options are there for whatever you want to use, aura sphere is recomended because steel types ruin you over if you dont, fire blast does the same with steels, but heatran become a pain in the ass, grass knot is for swampert haters, but he wont like tri atack so its not reccomended.
  19. Magikarpsushi

    Magikarpsushi

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    Mar 28, 2010
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    Pokemon Name: Froslass
    Moveset Name: SingLass
    Move 1: Sing
    Move 2: Encore/Hail
    Move 3: Trick
    Move 4: Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Shadow Ball
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Snow Cloak
    Nature(s): Timid
    EVs: Ordered 252/0/0/4/0/252

    Although risky this set is effective, considering the point of a lead is to give an advantage, the main advantage being either restricting your opponents to setting up an advantage for themselves OR to take down the opponent.
    In this case we will (hopefully) nullify the opponent's lead useless singing them to sleep, then either tricking or using the offensive move or even making a suitable switch. Froslass's speed is unquestioned (especially in hail if you want to risk setting it up first)
  20. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    I'd go with Aura Sphere, Ominous Wind, and Roost on that set. Aura Sphere lets you OHKO standard Tyranitar and 2HKO max HP Scizor while Scizor can only do a maximum of 57% with a Choice Banded Bullet Punch. Ominous Wind hits Ghosts that are immune to your other attacks as opposed to Silver Wind which is poor against them (especially Gengar). Celebi is a nonissue unless it's setting up since its best attack against it is HP Fire and it won't be switching in for fear of Air Slash. Roost is the superior choice because it gives you instant recovery and sheds your Electric, Ice, and Rock weakness for one turn. If you went with Wish, you would only be able to outstall things that can 4HKO you at best. I suppose Fire Blast could be used to OHKO Scizor and have a 60% chance to Burn Tyranitar as it switches in. Also, it hits Celebi just as hard as Silver Wind. Is the 20% chance to get a boost from Ominous Wind really worth it and what are the EVs for exactly?

    Edit: @Magikarpushi: If you use Choice Scarf on that Froslass, you'll only be able to use Sing to put them to sleep and then be forced to switch. You should try running a Focus Sash to give you two chances to put your opponent to sleep. There are more reliable sleep leads in OU so this should stay UU where Froslass is faster by comparison wo you won't need the Choice Scarf as much.
  21. Lucalibur

    Lucalibur

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    first of all, fire blast only had a 30% chance of burn in RBY, now it only got 10% what is boosted to 20%, the evs are made to outspeed any non jolly t-tar, hiting hard has possible while giving some bulkness, the evs on defense and special defense are there only because i hate when a number dont finish with 2,4,5,6,8 or 10, so i put in there to fix, its a problem i have. the 20% chance of boosting is worth IMO because if togekiss get the boosts it will not only outspeed jolly salamence and friends but also make sure only powerful moves like CB t-tar stone edge can ohko, it also boost the power from all moves thanks to the boost in special atack, togekiss can use O-wind and roost on something like bronzong to heal and get the boosts, its a game of luck but really:jirachi fire punch is always burning you right?
  22. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Ok, I thought Fire Blast had a 30% chance since Thunder does. I suppose you could tailor the EVs to something specific like never being 2HKO'd by Scizor's CB Bullet Punch or never being OHKO'd by Burned CB Tyranitar's Stone Edge so you can PP stall them with Roost but those seem pretty solid. I'm not sure if Jirachi has ever actually used Fire Punch on me, which is weird since I run Scizor on pratically all of my teams.
  23. Lucalibur

    Lucalibur

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    the jirachi fire punch thing was just a joke, since jirachi element punchs appear to status everything it touch.
  24. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Lead Vaporeon - I thought I'd write this up properly

    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon @ Expert Belt/ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Modest nature
    188def 252spatk 68spe
    -Hydro Pump
    -Hidden Power Grass/Wish/Surf
    -Ice Beam/ Wish/Surf
    -Quick attack

    I mentioned this in the previous page after seeing an anti-lead Golduck which I realised had the same movepool and inferior stats. This lead is fairly simple, utilising the water-type moves that are so effective against the lead metagame, coupled with a weak priority move to finish off sashed opponents. Basically, this is very similar to Starmie and Empoleon, except that it beats a larger number of leads at the expense of Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin.

    The choice of moves is difficult. Hydro Pump’s power is necessary as shown in the list below, as is quick attack to finish off sashed leads. For the remaining two moves, HP grass should be considered with Expert Belt for Swampert. Surf lets you beat Infernape, Aerodactyl and Hippowdon without relying on shaky accuracy. Ice beam lets you beat Aerodactyl and Gliscor with good accuracy, and allows you to beat Dragonite, whilst also giving you good coverage for use outside of the lead metagame. Wish and Heal bell can be used otherwise for support.

    Here is a list displaying how it fares against common leads:

    Azelf – The standard is KOed by Hydro pump followed by quick attack

    Metagross – Hydro Pump 2HKOes, as does Surf + Hydro Pump (accuracy). You outrun all that run 24 speed or less. Meteor Mash/EQ and bullet punch do pathetic damage.

    Swampert – an expert belt Hp Grass OHKOes most of the time (97% min.) Note that this is higher than for standard Empoleon’s
    Grass Knot. If not running HP grass and expert belt, Hydro Pump 2HKOes.

    Aerodactyl- Hydro Pump, Surf and an expert belt Ice Beam all bring it down to its sash to be finished by Quick attack.

    Jirachi – Hydro pump 2HKOes, as does Surf + Hydro Pump. You will outrun it after being tricked a scarf. Its attacks do little.

    Infernape – Surf and Hydro Pump both activate the sash easily. Quick attack to finish. His grass knot does poor damage on account of Vaporeon’s low weight.

    Roserade – a poor matchup. If you want, you can break its sash with Quick attack. Its leaf Storm OHKOes, and a combination of non-EB ice beam and quick attack does not KO for you (so lum berry/grass-resist berry don’t work without Blizzard)

    Heatran – Surf and Hydro pump both OHKO (non-EB surf has a small chance to miss the KO, but will always be finished by Quick Attack). You have a chance to survive an explosion.

    Tyranitar – an expert belt hydro pump OHKOes even the Specially bulky standard most of the time. Tyranitar’s attacks do little.

    Gliscor – easy OHKO with Surf/Ice beam/ Hydro Pump

    Hippowdon – Hydro pump or an EB surf to OHKO.

    Smeargle – You can break its sash, and beat it with Lum. Vaporeon does not mind trick too much.

    Machamp - 2HKOed by Hydro Pump. With Lum berry, you can do this fairly easily.

    Vaporeon can of course provide support to the team in ways that Starmie and Empoleon cannot. Wish and Heal Bell are notable options in this regard, since Vaporeon will certainly be returning later with its fantastic bulk. Starmie also performs badly against some leads like Jirachi, who U-turns out, Aerodactyl, who 2HKOes with Rock Slide or even EQ after LO recoil, and Tyranitar, who survives a LO Hydro Pump almost all of the time and OHKOes back with Payback/Crunch. Empoleon loses to Infernape and other fighting-type leads, as well as missing the OHKO on Tyranitar due to running Focus Sash/Chople berry, and losing to Mamoswine (increasingly uncommon but still.) Oh and Vaporeon is a massive surprise and an embarrassment to your opponent!
  25. Kabuto Mushi

    Kabuto Mushi

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    486
    Hmm... this might be a really stupid idea, but on that Vaporeon lead, why not take the Swampert route? That is, put Protect over Quick Attack? If the Metagross of Azelf or whatever knows it's going to die next turn, won't it just Explode? So you can predict it and use protect... I guess it would be cool to get rid of Spore Smeargal leads (IF you also run Lum Berry), but it might be worth it to have the Wish/Protect combo going.

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