New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

In singles, you could use Substitute (over, say, Thunderpunch) to ease prediction.
That would work extremely well. Sub on the switch-in, and then Skill Swap as he breaks your Sub. If he Earth Powers, switch to something immune. If he Fire Blasts, Sub again and enjoy your boost.
 
I made this set mainly because I hate Heatran and it works great in doubles too.

Singles-Doubles Swapping Jirachi
Jirachi@ExpertBelt
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Speed
Jolly Nature
-Skill Swap
-Iron Head
-Fire Punch
-ThunderPunch/Substitute

Iron Head is definitely the favorite flinching move but the main point of this set is to use Skill Swap on a Heatran, powering up your FlashFire and hitting him back with Fire Punch that he's no longer immune to. ThunderPunch is for the Water-types that are resist Iron Head and Fire Punch. I was considering Zen Headbutt but Empoleon resists that so ThunderPunch it is. For doubles, using Skill Swap on partner Lanturn/Jolteon has a lot of benefits. 1) Lanturn/Jolteon's Discharge will start healing Jirachi because of Volt Absorb. 2) Lanturn/Jolteon will gain Serene Grace which would be a 60% paralysis rate on both of the opponent's Pokemon.

Thanks to wavedash, Substitute is a good substitute ( haha =] ) for ThunderPunch if you're unsure if Heatran will use EarthPower or FireBlast.
I like this idea, and I think it could be expanded to handle many other threats, including getting an Intimidate on Gyarados or Salamence (though Gyarados will love the extra flinching chance on Waterfall), getting Levitate from Rotom, Latias, etc. to remove one of its weaknesses, or other useful abilities that could be used to your advantage. The offensive moveset (and EVs) could be tailored to take care of the specific things you are trying to counter. For example, to handle Rotom you could go with a more specially based set and use HP Ground for after you have swapped its Levitate.

As good as it sounds, this idea may be outclassed by Porygon2, who doesn't have to waste a moveslot to gain the opponent's ability, has a slightly higher SpAtk stat, and has access to instant recovery. Also, many pokemon can take advantage of gaining Serene Grace, since Jirachi has to swap abilities. But Jirachi has better defensive stats and has uses outside of simply countering specific pokemon, not to mention the surprise factor.
 
i dont think that jirachi works at all. heatran takes only neutral damage from fire punch and if you do get that flash fire boost, which you most likely wont against scarf versions, fire punch will be at only 112.5BP which still wont hit heatran for much.
 
Although I am sure that this must be a terrible idea because I have never made one of these before Im going to go ahead and try:

Set name: Dark luck
Pokeman: Absol
EVs: 252 attack, 252 speed 6, hp.
Ability: Super luck
moves:
Sucker punch
Punishment
Swords dance
Baton pass
Held item: Razor claw

the basic plan in this arrangement is that when a pokemon that thinks it can wall absol decides to set up on him they seal their own coffin in powering up punishment with their own abilities (think calm mind and dragon dance) in conjunction with a 33% critical strike chance for absol with super luck and the razor claw.

just a quick bit of theory craft: for a pokemon that dark is neutral against, punishment starts at 60 BP, if a pokemon uses DD it goes up to 100 this with Stab goes to 150 which then goes to 300 bp 33% of the time. this is based very heavily on luck, thus the name, but with baton pass in wait and swords dance to pass the first turn while they show their cards it actually retains a strong saftey net.
 
I'm not sure if that set would work as Sucker Punch and Punishment are your only two attacking options. Sure, they may get STAB, but they pretty much depend on what your oppenent does to hit hard or even hit at all in the case of Sucker Punch. Also, by running only Dark moves, you are walled hard by Steels and Rock types so try out Superpower over Baton Pass so you can have better coverage.

Overall, the idea seems pretty interesting.
 
Definately go with Super Power over Punishment on Absol. Passing the Attack and Defense drops might not be great, but hitting Darks and Steels SE is great since they resist your STAB (also, Rock doesn't resist Dark, Tyranitar only does because it's Dark). Also, you may want to try Night Slash over Sucker Punch since you're trying to abuse Super Luck and something like Mismagius can set up a Substitute on you, if you go with Super Power, and proceed to wear you down. Psycho Cut is another option, if you want to take down Fighting types and also has a high critcal hit ratio.
 
Sucker Punch is absolutely needed, because Absol is not fast enough to outspeed a whole lot, and... it is a good thing that quite a number of things that it does outspeed are weak to superpower, so I would recommend superpower > punishment. Punishment is so situational that it's probably not a good idea to lose coverage just for that. You can use substitute > punishment if you want to be more baton passing oriented (just bp when facing a dark resist or something with high defense), but probably superpower for coverage is still better.
 
i dont think that jirachi works at all. heatran takes only neutral damage from fire punch and if you do get that flash fire boost, which you most likely wont against scarf versions, fire punch will be at only 112.5BP which still wont hit heatran for much.
I agree and even with a Flash Fire boost Heatran can still KO you first with Earth Power (which most Heatran have).
 
As far as the tyranitar, it can be good for cleaning up late game, but there are several problems: Almost all common priority save extremespeed hits tyranitar super effectively, making the +2 spe useless. Also, metagross can compete with this due to better defensive typing, (ttar has 3x as many weaknesses) clear body, and the chance to boost attack with meteor mash.

Tyranitar does have the advantage of having a strong stone edge and fire move, essentially better coverage, and with higher special defense though.
 
I thought I posted this, but apparently not...
Shiftry @ Focus Sash
4 HP, 252 Att, 252 Spe, Adamant
Fake Out
Explosion
Seed Bomb/Low Kick
Sucker Punch/Pursuit

Fake Out is to break possible sashes/get in free damage, followed by Explosion to take out whatever was in your way. The Focus Sash ensures that your Explosion will go off. The combination of these two probably means Adamant is the better nature. Sucker Punch hits priority attackers who might try to attack you after you're down to 1 HP. Seed Bomb is for STAB and Low Kick hits Steels.
 
Lead Scizor @ Life Orb/Lum Berry/Shed Shell
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP | 252 Atk | 4 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- U-Turn
- Toxic
- Roost
- Bullet Punch

Scizor as a lead? That's right. U-Turn and Bullet Punch are standard Scizor moves. Roost provides really great durability for a nicely typed Pokemon, not to mention above average defenses. Toxic is for all of those leads that switch after they realize Scizor can roll them in one or two hits. I predict and Toxic the incoming 'mon, usually U-turning out to my best counter. The weakness here? I am unsure of whether my EV spread is efficient or not. I haven't had time to do calcs yet, but if anyone spots a more productive spread be my guest and suggest it. I highly recommend trying this Scizor, as it really does its job well.
Azelf: Switch out...
Swampert: Toxic and U-Turn
Metagross: U-Turn out
Aerodactyl: Bullet Punch, then Toxic if I didn't get Taunted or Bullet Punch again if I did.
Jirachi: U-Turn out.
Infernape: Switch out.
Roserade: Bullet Punch. If I fall asleep I will usually sit in there until I wake up, and use U-Turn to go for the kill. If not I Bullet Punch again.
Tyranitar: Toxic then Bullet Punch.
Ninjask: Bullet Punch and laugh as it goes down and I ruin the BP teams.
Heatran: Switch...
 
I got a new and different lead set for you all to add to this thread! I took the general idea from another person long, long ago, and made it better. I kept it secret while I unleashed it on Shoddy, but now I’ve moved on, so here it is for your entertainment.



Porygon-Z @ Chople Berry/Silk Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 100 HP / 152 Def / 104 SAtk / 152 Spe
IVs: 2 Atk/ 30 SAtk/ 30 SDef
Nature: Timid
- Tri Atack
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Icy Wind
- Magic Coat

This Porygon-Z is a full out anti lead for you, which I’m becoming more and more a fan of. It doesn’t set up Stealth Rock, or for the most part stop the opponent from doing so. It’s simply built to do what Porygon-Z does best – destroy things. Since the lead metagame is so physically oriented, against most leads Porygon-Z will get a great Special Attack boost from the amazing ability, Download. Just to name a few, there’s Metagross; Naïve Azelfs, Heatrans, and Infernapes; Swampert; Gliscor; Hippowdon; and many others unnamed here. Tri Attack is a powerful attack backed by STAB and a potential SPA boost, and blasts through bulky leads like Hippowdon and Swampert. Hidden Power Ground is to nail the popular Ground-weak Pokémon that occupy many teams lead positions. What makes this set special, though, are the final two moves on this set, and the odd EV spread, which are explained below. Here’s a list of some of the popular leads that Porygon-Z might find itself against, and how well it does its job as an anti-lead:

Azelf: Icy Wind first, breaking its Focus Sash, and the side effect of lowering its Speed by 1 stage. This means next turn Porygon-Z outspeeds it, and can finish it off with Tri Attack. If a nervous Azelf user Taunts turn one, they don’t get up Rocks.

Aerodactyl: Same thing at Azelf, but Icy Wind for two turns instead of Tri Attack on turn two. Usually it only Taunts you for fear of some crazy Nasty Plot lead.

Swampert: With the Special Attack boost, which is basically guaranteed unless the Swampert is weird, you can proceed to blast Swampert. Each Tri Attack does 49% - 57.9%, so you have a decent chance to 2HKO with Leftovers factored in.

Metagross: A Download boost is guaranteed here, meaning you can easily 2HKO all Metagross leads (HP Ground does 63.7% - 75.3%). There are a couple things that could happen – it could attempt to set up Stealth Rock, or all out attack you. The EV’s make it so you always survive the Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch combo with at least one HP, barring a crit or Attack boost.

Infernape: You take the inevitable Fake Out, and use Icy Wind the next turn, breaking its Sash and lowering its Speed. Then you HP Ground next turn for the KO. The Chople Berry lets you take a Close Combat to get the job done if it just attacks you.

Heatran: The Speed allows you to outpace max-speed Heatran by one point, and allows you to 2HKO the standard Naïve ShucaTran lead. Since in the event of a tie between Defense and Special Defense, Porygon-Z will always Download a Special Attack boost, unless the opposing EV’s are Sp. Defensive you’ll always get the boost from there. Either way, though, you’ll 2HKO, using Shuca on the first turn, and outright killing on the next. Fire Blast never KO’s Porygon-Z (74.4% - 87.8%), so your strategy will go through every time, potentially blocking Rocks from Heatran as well.

Gliscor: Icy Wind OHKO's

Hippowdon: Tri Attack does 50.2% - 59.5%, giving you a pretty good chance to 2HKO, while its Earthquakes do 39.3% - 46.4%, meaning you get in 3 hits since you outspeed. That's if it doesn't set up rocks.

Roserade/Smeargle/Breloom: This is fun, and where Magic Coat comes into play. Magic Coat, in case you didn’t know, is a priority move that takes an incoming status move and reflect is back on the original user. All of a sudden, the Roserade of theirs to set up Toxic Spikes is asleep and vulnerable. This move can cause status mayhem later in the game too, since not many people see it coming.

The only common leads that Porygon-Z has trouble with are Tyranitar and Empoleon. The standard Tyranitar Lead you simply can’t damage enough to do anything at all (HP Ground does 19.3% - 22.8%), while with Empoleon you won’t get a SpA boost from Download, and can’t 2HKO with HP Ground (40.2% - 47.7%), while it has a small chance to knock you out with Hydro Pump and Aqua Jet (73.2% - 86.6% and 11.6% - 13.7%, respectively totaling to 84.8% - 100.3%). Even if you live the HP+Aqua Jet combo, you only get 2 hits in from HP Ground, it’s pointless to keep P-Z in. Have something to handle the two of them on your team, such as a Bulky Water like Swampert, or a bulky Fighter like a Machamp – something that could take a hit from Empoleon and fire back. Swampert would work well if it invested a bit in Attack to ensure a kill on Empoleon, and so you can get Rocks up for the rest of your team.

As DDRMaster brought up, if you're not as worried about Infernape leads as I was in making this set, you could use Silk Scarf instead. That gives you the kick needed to ensure a 2HKO on things like Swampert and Hippowdon, and makes Tri Attack a far better sweeping move.

Another side note, I made the IV's to have Hidden Power Ground, with the lowest possible Attack stat. This is so, in case Porygon-Z is somehow confused, the 40BP, physical, typeless attack it strikes its own Defense with is far weaker.

Overall, this lead is a break from standards, and is simply fun to use – which you can’t say about most things (especially leads…). Its sheer power will amaze you. Enjoy my Porygon-Z!
 
I'd slash Silk Skarf on that lead set because it allows you to always 2HKO Swampert and Hippowdon and Chople Berry only seems to be used for Infernape. Chople Berry is still probably better, but it's worth mentioning. There's probably a better way to EV that so it can still take all those attacks you mentioned and give it a bit more SpAtk but I'm not going to try and find it right now.
 
That EV spread was hard to come up with, and is pretty well the only way to survive Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch. With as common as Metagross is, i wanted to make sure. I suppose if you're not worried about Metagross much, you could drop the HP and Defense EV's a bit to at least give you a good chance of survival. The Speed and nature are necessary for Tran, and the rest is dumped into SpA. Chople Berry works pretty well against Infernape and random Fighting moves [EDIT: And stupid Machamp leads...], but you're right about Silk Scarf. Heck, even Wise Glasses could help, and was my primary item used until Infernape had a little spike. Now that's down, Silk Scarf would do it wonders as well.

Oh, and thank you very much, Lati0s! =3
 
172 Special Attack, neutral nature, Download boost, and Choice Specs always OHKOs Metagross before it can set up Stealth Rocks.

Same set also always OHKOs Lead ShucaTran.
 
Great, wavedash. That's 2 leads. The rest? Especially sleep inducers and Focus Sashers? I'm willing to forgo blocking their Rocks to kill off a wider variety of leads, but that's me.

I usually don't like to run Choice items on my leads. The lead metagame, as you all know, is a different animal entirely. It's so quick paced you need to be able to compensate for something weird on a moment's notice, and Choice items detract from that.
 
I'm too lazy to do the math for your "win percentage", and I'm sure the difference isn't noticeable, but being to OHKO one of the metagame's most common leads and prevent it from getting Stealth Rocks up could be worth "losing" to Roserade and Smeargle. Maybe your team is Rotom, Latias, Salamence, and three Steel-type Pokemon (I dunno). Maybe your team has Gyarados, Togekiss, and Zapdos. I'm not saying Choice Specs is superior to Chople Berry or Silk Scarf (in most cases, it isn't), but it might be worth it depending on the team, and it might deserve a slash.
 
The Porygon-z lead looks really nice. Just one problem. You have wasted EVs!!!

More efficient EV spread: Modest nature: 104 HP / 152 Def / 252 Spe. You have 1 more HP, the same Speed, the same Defense, the same Attack, and the same Special Defense. But you now have 5 more Special Attack.

Azelf (standard lead): Icy Wind + Tri Attack = (29.6% - 35.1%) + (85.2% - 101%) = 114.8% - 136.1%

Aerodactyl (standard lead): Icy Wind + Icy Wind (+ Tri Attack) = (47.7% - 56.3%) + (47.7% - 56.3%) (+ Tri Attack) = (95.4% + 112.6%) + (34.4% - 40.7%) = 129.8% - 153.3%

Swampert (standard lead): (+1) Tri Attack + (+1) Tri Attack = (66.3% - 78.2%) + (66.3% - 78.2%) = 132.6% - 156.4%

Metagross: (+1) Hidden Power: Ground + (+1) Hidden Power: Ground = (64.3% - 75.8%) + (64.3% - 75.8%) = 128.6% - 151.6%

Infernape: (+1) Icy Wind + (+1) Hidden Power: Ground = (21.2% - 24.9%) + (107.8% - 127%) = 129% - 151.9%

Heatran (standard lead): (+1) Hidden Power: Ground + (+1) Hidden Power: Ground = (69.8% - 82.7%) + (139.5% - 165.4%) = 209.3% - 248.1%

Gliscor: (+1) Icy Wind = 120.9% - 142.4%

Hippowdon = (+1) Tri Attack + (+1) Tri Attack = (68.1% - 80.5%) + (68.1% - 80.5%) = 136.2% - 161%

Well done. I have been convinced.
 
(Azelf) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 Atk/252 Spd/200 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Psychic
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt/ hp ground
- Explosion/fire blast

so we all know azelf is a great lead most of the time and that the nasty plot set can rip shit apart, we all tried scarf azelf once in our lifes, but anyone tried mixed azelf? with a mixed set azelf can destroy a lot of walls and rip stall teams apart! psychic is your main atack and while its not the best offensive typing its still a strong move, ice punch always ohko salamence, dragonite and 2hko offensive latias (you outspeed all 3), the third slot main option is thunderbolt what 2hko +0 suicune, vaporeon and 3hko heatran (the later always ohko you with fire blast but i feel like sharing), one could use hp ground only to not be walled by heatran but its not really recommended because bulky waters will often prove to be more of a pain, the last slot main option is going KABBOM with explosion! it always ohko blissey and will ohko anything that dont resist (barring retarded physical walls like hippo) but if one decide azelf need more wall breaking power instead of a atack for bliss and friends then you can use fire blast instead, what deal massive damage to metagross, jirachi and celebi, possibly ohkoing 4/0 versions of the laters and always 2hko leadgross (even with occa) and got a chance to ohko a metagross who dont invest on hp and special defense at all. the evs dont do anything specific but they allow you to speed tie with all pokemons siting at base 115 speed, to always ohko mence and nite with ice punch (has long azelf was not intimidated by bulky mence) and that explosion will always ohko bliss (you dont need evs for this but its always good to be sure), the rest of the evs are put into special atack, other options for this set are u-turn, grass knot and maybe shadow ball but they normaly wont provide you with the coverage the main set does. while this look like the normal life orb set on the analysis one might notice the moves are not exactly the same, this set trade some raw power for more speed and coverage, this azelf work best has a later game sweeper once scarfed pokemons are gone.
 

supermarth64

Here I stand in the light of day
is a Contributor Alumnus
Alternatively, since the only Specially based move that you're going to be facing as a lead besides Psychic (Infernape would rather CC you) is Hydro Pump and you lose to Empoleon anyway, you might choose to run 212 Def / 44 SpA / 252 Spe with Modest. This nets you the same Speed as with your spread, has a 0.07% chance of being 2HKOed by Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch (not including crits), and also gives you an additional 16 SpA points. 224 Def gives 0%.
 
I like your spread a bit better, supermarth64. I kinda went off on a tangent when calculating EVs, as you might have been able to tell, and for some reason didn't even check if a max Speed EV'd base 90 could outrun Heatran. Since I'm a pessimist, if you take your spread, and change it a tiny bit to 220 Def / 36 SpA / 252 Spe, then you still have 14 more SpA than mine, and you survive Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch every time (they both to maximum of 310 HP, while you have 311). I think that one may be a bit more efficient as a lead, while eastamazonantidote's would be more able to help later in the game just a bit cause of the HP not by much, though, being the glass cannon that is Porygon-Z.

Better spreads, though! Thanks for working on them and posting em'! I was really bored one day in my first period class when I came up with mine...
 

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