1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Lee, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    515
    [OU] "LeadYama"
    [​IMG]
    Hariyama (M) @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk/176 Spd/80 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Fake Out
    - Close Combat
    - Payback
    - Ice Punch / Stone Edge
    ---

    RL introduced me to this set a while back and after picking it up again, I have to admit: It works perfectly in this meta. Fake Out activates the Flame Orb and Guts, allowing Hariyama to plow through leads with almost no trouble. Close Combat and Payback OHKO most leads after Fake Out, including fucking LeadChamp, while they can only get in a single attack at best (Metagross is the only exception, but by pairing Hariyama with ShucaTran, it shouldn't be too much of a problem). I used Ice Punch initially to handle Gliscor and Mence switch ins, but after luring in a Gyarados every other match, I began using Stone Edge with a decent success rate. The EVs are pretty simple: max Attack to hit shit hard, outspeed Skarmory, and give Hariyama a fighting chance against scRotom-A switchins. If anyone decides to use this set, I strongly recommend using LO Starmie and Heatran as partners for this thing; Starmie can spin away rocks against Infernape leads that decide to set them up while Heatran can get Stealth Rocks up on most of what can beat Hariyama.
  2. Fear The Pika

    Fear The Pika

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,288
    Pokemon Name: Umbreon
    Moveset Name : CurseTalk
    Move 1: Rest
    Move 2: Sleep Talk
    Move 3: Curse
    Move 4: Payback
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Synchronize
    Nature: Sassy (-S + Sp D)
    EVs: 252/148/0/108/0/0

    Something that I've only seen one other person use before, though I don't know their IVs, Curse Talking Umbreon really works well, especially after its common counters like Scizor or Lucario are neutralized. Rest is used over Wish for getting rid of status like Burn or Toxic, and since they get the status that they give you due to synchronize, they hurt themselves too. Sleep Talk lets you absorb their sleep giving you a Pokemon that counts as sleep fodder that can still set up, or just Resttalk and set up as you go. Payback is simple, 100 BP if they go first, and 150 with STAB. Combine that with Umbreon's poor speed and Curse and you'll hit hard almost every time.

    EVs can be changed around with A and Sp D depending on if you want more bulk or attack. A couple really good partners to this are Heatran and Gengar. Heatran can take any Bug type moves that come at you and force them to switch, but can't take Fighting type moves. HP Fire Gengar, on the other hand, can take Bug and Fighting moves with ease and scare off Lucario with the threat of a Focus Blast.
  3. Efemera

    Efemera

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    224
    I find Wish/Heal Bell works better than Rest/Sleep Talk. It gives you more control over your actions and also allows Umbreon to support the rest of the team. For that reason, Umbreon is both a powerful Curse sweeper and an excellent team player.

    Umbreon is also one of the best users of Heal Bell in the game. Switch in on a predicted status from something like Jirachi or Blissey and send it right back to them with Synchronize. Then proceed to Heal Bell the status and set up.

    Physically Defensive Zapdos with Heat Wave is also a good partner to this set, as Umbreon tends to lure in Scizor (and other Steels), which can't do much to Zapdos. Zapdos resists Fighting, Bug, and Steel, and 1HKOs back with Heat Wave. Heatran shares a fighting weakness with Umbreon, which could potentially be a problem. Zapdos also helps deal with Taunt users such as Gyarados, though after a bit of Attack investment and a single Curse Umbreon can 2hko Gyarados with Payback.
  4. Bribery

    Bribery

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    321
    I've used this set as well and I loved it. It may not be as annoying as Machamp but it can still reliably take down most leads. I used a spread of 212 Atk / 176 Spe / 120 SDef to always survive Naive Azelf's Psychic. I don't think any KOs are lost from taking 40 EVs out of Atk.
  5. Fear The Pika

    Fear The Pika

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,288
    This was made before Heal Bell was an option, and I still like it better. No only does Rest recover all of your HP, it heals the status at the same time. Yes, Umbreon can be a team player, but this is a self-serving tank. ;)

    As for Zapdos, yeah, I wasn't thinking of that, but that would be a great partner. The only problem is SR weakness, but there's Roost to heal that.
  6. MegaKick

    MegaKick

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,482
    Not only is this looked down upon in competitive battling. This probably won't work, espiecielly if your using body slam. It takes at least 2 turns to set up, pherhaps more since water pulse only works 60% of the time. How is it anymore of a team supporter then something with just thunderwave+wish (read: lots of stuff)? once confused, pokemon will just switch. I guess it could be a good shuffler though, with max spikes + stealth rock + water pulse damage doing a lot of damage, but water pulses unreliability really puts this down. If jirachi got confuse ray, it might be half decent. But if it works for you, go for it. Any other opinions on this?
  7. Azure Demon

    Azure Demon Guest

    MR. Uncheckable
    shiny scyther or siczor

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    naive~technician
    31/31/31/28/31/31 (hp elec59)

    set 1 evs: 162atk/148spatk/200speed
    move set: Hidden power(elec 59), endure, reversal
    /brick break, bullet punch/bug bite
    reccomended items: liechi berry or salac berry

    mixed attacking siczor: This set gives siczor an attack stat of 336 and a speed stat of 237 but it allows siczor to do many things it could never do before. 1. Ohko (with rocks) gyarados or 2hko it without them doing anywhere from 59%-70% on your standard offensive dragon dancer and even 2hkoing the bulky dragon dancer set doing 53% - 63% and the beauty of it all is that a max attack adamant +1 DD gyarados can't ohko siczor even with stabbed waterfall and life orb leaving siczor open to kill it off but another important part of this set is reversal. Reversal is siczor's way of checking magnezone, heatran, and t-tar. Now the reason i chose reversal my not be an obvious one to all so I'll elaborate typically reversal is only powerful when low on hp so the lower the hp the more powerful the move but when combined with technician the move is boosted even when his hp is rather high so until siczor gets banged up enough to the point where reversal's base power is over 60 reversal still wrecks.but the other surprise is that this guy runs salac berry to raise his speed so he is insured that he can fire off many max power reversals or if you are not a major fan of reversal either way both of these move are highly destructive the only plus to brick break is that it keeps siczor doesn't have to be in the priority move death zone to operate it at max power . Lechi berry ups the power of the ones he can let off. bullet punch is mostly for coverage and hitting dragons for neutral not to mention polishing off opponents on their last leg bug bite is also a viable option if you are worried about latias but that would honestly be the only reason to run it over bullet punch.

    and pokemon #2

    psycho crow

    Honchkrow
    [​IMG]
    naive~insomnia
    Evd: 210atk/200spatk/100spd
    move set: psycho
    shift, sucker punch, superpower, heat wave/drill peck
    recommended item@ life orb/expert belt

    this bird is absolutely amazing his ability makes him completely immune to sleep. His base attack stats make him incredibly dangerous and most certainly makes him a good option for a mixed wall breaker. The ev spread posted gives honchkrow an attack stat of 338, a special attack stat of 296, and a speed stat of 223. now the idea behind the set is simple yet very effective attack attack attack and when you get hit with status like burn or thunder wave pass it off to another sweeper and continue you sweep without the burden of status weighing you down how good will it feel to pass a thunder wave off to blissey or a will-o-wisp off to a dusknior. Now, since we have the purpose of the set out of the way lets talk effectiveness. This set is completely destructive to everything and hits a lot of the OU's big dogs for major damage for example with life orb it tears down metagross 2hkoing it every time with heatwave doing anywhere from 84%%
    and allowing you to polish it off with a sucker punch next turn but an even more impressive feat is that it can ohko a skarmory with max hp and max def doing 111%. This beauty of a bird also tends to draw in blissey's if your opponent sees it first off a special attack first a Pokemon which it ohko's with rocks up doing 96% 252hp/252def hp bold blissey while scoring ohko's on heatran, tyranitar, and lucario. Sucker punch is there for polishing off ghost, psychics, and weaker Pokemon on their last legs. Drill peck is a viable option for those who find themselves to be weak to fighting types but heat wave pretty much has you covered for bugs so no need to worry there. this set is very versatile and hits a lot of things for massive damage but my favorite thing about this set is it keeps opponents guessing as to what's coming next.


    Both sets serve me well but please let me know what you think and how you think I can improve on these anything and everything helps

  8. Ericcc

    Ericcc

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,716
    Backing up FTP on this one.
    This set works AMAZING. in UU, but now that Umbreon is OU, it may not work so well.
    Once it's set up, there is no STOPPING this death machine. I've tried this set out myself, and have had much success.
    A valuable wall breaker like Blaziken (UU), or Infernape/Honchkrow (OU) work well with this as they take out those pesky Steels (Although Umbreon can set up on them with impunity and still sweep, bar Scizor now that Umbreon's OU)
    I prefer 252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 SpD for UU.
  9. Fear The Pika

    Fear The Pika

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,288
    Yes, that's actually the EV spread I've been using, but I swapped the EVs around for now and am probably going to change it back.=P

    Yes, I know that this set will have trouble in OU and will be forced to come in later game when all those annoying Lucario and Scizor are gone, but that isn't too hard. What works really well with this is Toxic Spikes, limiting their non-steel/flying Pokemon's time to KO you as you set up. Yes, it may not be the best set in OU when they have a ton of counters on their team, but it can really hurt when they've gone through those.
  10. Jack Jack

    Jack Jack

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    120
    Machamp
    [​IMG]
    Performer

    Magic Coat
    Encore
    DynamicPunch
    Payback
    No guard
    leftovers
    Adamant
    252 Hp, 252 atk, 4 spe

    Basically, this set attemps to use the combination of Magic Coat and Encore to screw Machamp's counter. It works best when machamp is at full hp, because then, foes are tempted to cripple it indirectly rather than directly. Magic Coat has +4 priority, so Machamp's low speed is not an issue. Plus, the high attack and confusion from dynamic punch helps retain momentum on offensive teams.

    Rotom gets his will-o'-wisp right back at himself. Gyarados and Kingdra gets encored in Dragon Dance and substitute, respectively.

    Breloom and smeargle will get spored right back.
    The Hp EV allows it to take a lucario's Close combat and OHKO back with dynamic punch.
  11. GrimHawke

    GrimHawke

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Chesto-Rest Heatran
    [​IMG]

    Heatran @ Chesto Berry
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk/32 Spd/ 224 HP
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - HP Grass / Dragon Pulse
    - Rest

    So this is a set I've used successfully as a defensive pivot on one of my teams. People automatically think it's choiced, because it lacks leftovers and life orb. Fire Blast still hits like a truck, especially after a Flash Fire boost. Earth Power is for coverage. I use HP Grass > Dragon Pulse because the dragons will still outspeed you, but Swampert can't.
    Rest and Chesto Berry let it survive a lot longer, and Heatran finds plenty of opportunities to use it (people really overestimate Scizor's bullet punch).
    The EVs allow Heatran to have a maxed out special attack and still have plenty of bulk. The speed EVs allow Heatran to outspeed minimum speed base 80's with 4 EV investment.
  12. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    515
    ...huh? I'm confused .-.

    How is Magic Coat going to help Machamp? Rotom isn't crippled badly by a burn, and I don't see what's stopping it from using Will-O-Wisp again. If Mence and Gyarados switch in too often, why not just run Stone Edge? It OHKOes both of them after factoring in SR and Intimidate. Also, how the fuck does Kingdra even remotely check Machamp?
  13. MegaKick

    MegaKick

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,482
    yeah, and with an attack like machamp's, your better off punching your opponets daces with d-punch. Not worth the slot.
  14. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    I don't see this really being able to help out much. Most Machamp run Lum Berry for a reason so that the Dynamic Punch could still go through. There's a lot more coverage if you drop the Magic Coat and pick up things like Stone Edge or Ice Punch. Burns will not effect Rotom at all, and with a Lum Berry you can still smack the Smeargle enough after it tries to Spore you.
  15. Efemera

    Efemera

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    224
    I've been using the same EV spread (except with Wish/Heal Bell). I find Umbreon, MixApe, and Zapdos or Gyarados to be an extremely effective combination. I don't find Toxic Spikes support to be that helpful, because the Pokemon I usually have problems with are Steels and phazers, of which Skarmory is the most popular option. Spikes support is pretty handy, but overall this set works well without any entry hazards. You just need the walls and phazers out of the way.

    I just played a game where my opponent had to sac 3 Pokemon, including a Salamence just to bring this thing down after 3 Curses (which are incredibly easy to get if your opponent doesn't recognize the threat immediately). Feels good man.
  16. Fear The Pika

    Fear The Pika

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,288
    Doesn't it? And I'm talking about helping it to set up as it limits the safe amount of times they can hit you with Toxic building up, especially if they run LO. As for Steel types, the only ones you'll really have trouble with are Registeel and Skarmory, even Scizor won't give you too much trouble if you've gotten curses up.

    And as for Wish/Heal bell over Rest/Sleep Talk, I'm not saying that it doesn't work, I just don't think that it works better. Sure, it helps for support options, but Wish takes a turn to only heal off 50%, and Heal Bell takes another turn to pull off. So that's 2 turns to heal 50% and status in the amount of time it takes Rest to heal both and burn off a turn of sleep. Statistically speaking, Rest/Sleep Talk will benefit Umbreon more of the time since they can keep using status moves on you after you Heal Bell, and eventually you'll run out of that 8 PP. Rest also means that they can't switch in to something like Scizor the turn of your wish and use Super Power or U-turn on you and KO while you're waiting for that recovery. But if you like Wish/Heal Bell and it works for you, by all means keep using it, I'm going to have to try it as soon as I can. And thanks for the partner suggestions, I'm going to have to try that out.

    EDIT. Yes, it does work well without entry hazards, but the Toxic/Spikes/SR damage can help you net some KOs that would normally take you another turn of Cursing. But then again, what set up Pokemon doesn't benefit from entry hazards? ;P
  17. Ericcc

    Ericcc

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,716
    I have to agree that Sleep Talk/Rest is really the icing on the cake with this Umbreon set, and it's pretty much the only reason I use it.
    However, now that Umbreon is OU, maybe Wish/Heal Bell is more beneficial. But I haven't tried it out for myself.
    Efemera, what EV spread are you using?
  18. j-squared

    j-squared

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    250
    "Tox-Spin Top"
    [​IMG]
    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin
    - Mach Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    ---

    I've been using this set on one of my more successful OU teams. As a spinner, it helps me when I face an all-out stall team running spikes. It takes hits very well, and I can usually send it on anything not packing a STAB psychic or flying move. If my opponent has spikes down, the first move I use is usually toxic to hit the predictable Rotom-A switch-in, crippling variants without rest. At this point I usually switch out, preferably to something that can take a WoW. Hitting Rotom with toxic allows me to wear it down and eventually take it out, freeing Top to spin.

    Sucker Punch allows me to take out ghosts like Rotom and Gengar, but first I usually make sure these ghosts don't have sub, which wrecks this set. Mach Punch also gives Top a chance to pick off weakened sweepers (Heatran, Sub-Petaya Empoleon). It doesn't OHKO Ttar, but it comes close.

    I have a lot of fun using this set. Most people don't know what to expect from Top, and toxic often catches them off-guard. It's also fun to kill that Gengar or Azelf before they have a chance to hit you. The downfall of this set is no recovery, so I usually run it with Wish support. I wasn't really sure what to do with the EV spread: Top's role isn't to do lots of damage, but sometimes I feel like more Attack would be useful. If anyone can come up with a better EV spread, let me know. And if anyone already came up with this set, I'm sorry.
  19. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,683
    That Hitmontop only does 45.6% - 53.8% to 4/0 Tyranitar with Mach Punch. It would need max attack, and Adamant Nature, and Technician to guarentee the KO after SR.
  20. PinkLemonade

    PinkLemonade

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    ~

    [​IMG]@ Babiri Berry
    Jolly ; 80 Hp / 124 Def / 248 Spe / 56 SpD


    ~Dragon Dance
    ~Crunch
    ~Stone Edge
    ~Fire Punch

    80 Hp / 124 Def with a Babiri Berry garuntees that Tyranitar will NEVER be ohko'd by Scizor, even after a critical hit and SR so you can hit it with a Fire Punch for the OHKO after you DD on the switch. 248 Spe allows you to outspeed all base 115's no matter, and the rest is thrown into SpD.



    However, if you run a magnezone then this set is also very effective
    [​IMG]@ Leftovers

    Jolly ; 108 Hp / 24 Atk / 128 SpD / 248 Spe

    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Crunch
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ Ice Punch

    108 Hp is a magic lefties number, 24 Attack garuntees the ohko on those pesky Gliscor with Ice Punch after SR, 248 Spe let's you outpace base 115's, and 128 SpD gives you 368/402 Defenses in the sandstorm, which makes you a very effective special tank. If you would prefer to move some to defense, an alternate spread of

    Jolly ; 108 Hp / 112 Def / 24 Atk / 16 SpD / 248 Spe

    Which gives you just enough SpD to avoid the 2hko from Wish-Pass Vaporeons surf 100% of the time.



    Calcs :

    Rapid Spin Starmie (290 SpA) Surf vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 40.8 - 47.8%
    Rapid Spin Starmie (290 SpA) Thunderbolt vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 13.6 - 16%Wish Support Vaporeon (256 SpA) Surf vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 35.9 - 42.4%
    Wish Support Vaporeon (256 SpA) HP Electric vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 9 - 10.6%
    Wish Support Vaporeon (256 SpA) Ice Beam vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 12 - 14.1 %
    Sub - Passing Jolteon ( 319 SpA) Thunderbolt vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 22.3-26.4%
    Sub - Passing Jolteon ( 319 SpA) HP Grass vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 21.7 - 26.1%
    Choice Specs Jolteon ( 478 SpA) HP Grass vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 32.6 - 38.6%
    Choice Specs Jolteon ( 478 SpA) Thunderbolt vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 32.9 - 39.1%
    Defensive Celebi ( 236 SpA) Grass Knot vs 108/128 SpD Tyranitar - 41.3 - 49.5%

    Clearly this set is able to wall most of the Special Metagame, bar Supereffective Stab attacks.
  21. Staraptor Call

    Staraptor Call

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,422
    The first Tyranitar set would be better off investing the leftover EVs in Attack. Jolly limits your attacking power already, so you will need all the Attack you can get.
  22. Efemera

    Efemera

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    224
    I'm using 200 Attack / 56 SpD. There may be a few threats that I didn't account for, but for the most part this is enough to survive anything from Latias (except multiple Specs Draco Meteors), Rotom, and other Ghosts, which are my favorite setup targets.

    Oh, and I don't disagree that Rest / Sleep Talk is very effective. I just like using Wish / Heal Bell since my team has a general lack of recovery and is prone to status.
  23. Ericcc

    Ericcc

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,716
    Ah, well I personally haven't used Umbreon in OU (and I hope that it goes back to UU soon!) so I can't say which Ev Spread would be most effective.
    What I'm saying is that how on earth is it surviving in OU now with Infernape's CC's and Gengar's FB's running rampant? I would assume in such a hostile environment, Umbreon would have to run WAY more defensive EV's and in turn have less attack EV's.
    I don't see Latias being a problem, since I imagine after a single Curse, Payback will OHKO, would it not?
  24. Fear The Pika

    Fear The Pika

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,288
    Not worth trying to survive Focus Blast, standard LO Gengar does 51-60% to you if you run 252HP/252 Sp D.
  25. Ericcc

    Ericcc

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,716
    I'm just not feeling this guy in OU. :( But that's aside from the discussion...

    If you were runing that set, then there would be no attack EV's. 200 ATT EV's really gives you a much needed boost, in my opinion :o
    However, before even attempting to set up with this guy I would say that the opponent's offenses would have to be taken out. CB Scizor is a perfect candidate, with pursuit for Gengar. And then you need to clear the field spotless of any Infernape/ Machamp/ or Scizor.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)