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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Lee, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Fear The Pika

    Fear The Pika

    Jan 20, 2009
    Yes, as I said, it isn't worth it to try. You can take a single Focus Blast and survive with 30% at the minimum, then OHKO with Payback, so that isn't too much to worry about. If anything, I'd add some Defense EVs, but I still am not sure if they're worth it. Anyone want to run some damage calcs with say, a 252/100/100/0/56/0 spread against common physical attacks? Don't bother with Lucario though...
  2. Ericcc


    Jul 30, 2009
    Against an Umbreon with an EV spread of 252 HP/ 100 ATT/ 100 DEF/ 56 SPDEF (no Curses set up) :

    64ATT Naive Infernape W/ LO using CC: 79.2% - 93.4%
    252 SPATT Naive Infernape W/ LO using Fire Blast: 57.0% - 68%
    0ATT Swampert using EQ: 25.1% - 29.7%
    252ATT Adamant Dragonite using Outrage: 47.2% - 55.6%
    252ATT Adamant Electivire W/ LO using Cross chop: 58.4% - 69.0%
    36ATT Mild Electivire w/ LO using Cross Chop: 37.6% - 44.7%
    252ATT Adamant Gyarados W/LO using Waterfall: 38.8% - 45.7%
    252ATT Adamant Gyarados W/ LO & +1ATT using Waterfall: 58.1% - 68.5%
    252ATT Adamant Kingdra W/ LO using Waterfall: 32.2% - 38.1%
    252ATT Adamant Metagross W/ LO using Meteor Mash: 51.3% - 60.4%

    Added in Life Orb damage to make it more realistic, since these Pokemon are often used holding that item
  3. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning

    Aug 27, 2009
    First Creative set I've tried out. I tested it on shoddy for about 20 times, It works wonders.

    Metagross @ Life Orb
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 116 Atk/140 Spd/252 SAtk
    Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Rock Polish/Agility
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Earthquake
    - Psychic

    Okay, here's the deal with this set. Mixed Metagross is supposed to catch the opponent off-guard. However, there are some cases when the opponent can predict a mixed metagross. So, I thought of this "Why not use a standard set that the opponent will usually 100% expect what attacks it has, and catch him off guard using mixed attacks?". Basically, what I'm trying to say is that this metagross is an Agiligross and a Mixgross combined.

    Here are some calcs I did versus common physical metagross counters:
    Psychic vs. 252 HP/0 Sp. Defense Rotom = (53% - 62%) 2HKO
    Psychic vs. 252 HP/0 Sp. Defense Zapdos = (48% - 56%) Always 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Psychic vs. 252 HP/0 Sp. Defense Gliscor = (60% - 71%) 2HKO
    Psychic vs. 252 HP/0 Sp. Defense Hippowdon = (52% - 62%) 2HKO
    Psychic vs. 4 HP/0 Sp. Defense Dugtrio = (107% - 127%) OHKO
    HP Fire vs. 252 HP/0 Sp. Defense Skarmory = (71% - 83%) 2HKO
    HP Fire vs. 28 HP/0 Sp. Defense Magnezone = (66% - 79%) 2HKO

    You can find time to set up Rock Polish on resisted choice pokes, and then KO their counters. Since Metagross can 2HKO most defensively oriented pokemon, that means that it may OHKO offensively oriented pokemon. Some people might say this is a waste of time and/or it is crap, but tbh with you, I find it very enjoyable to catch the opponent off-guard a lot of the time.
  4. Curtains


    Jul 6, 2009
    (i give head) Lead Gross w/ iron head

    Metagross @Lum berry

    Iron head
    stealth rocks
    bullet punch

    This set is a excellent alternative to the risky Meteor Mash that is most commonly seen on metagross. This set deals with all the regular stuff metagross usually does do good against.I got a lot of negative reviews on iron head when i introduced it on stark but i've used it with great success with a climbing cre of 1480. The main difference here is; Iron head does not miss.MM clumsy 85% accuracy is slightly higher than stone edge. (and we all know stone edge real accuracy of 50%). I usually tend to sway away from moves lower than 90% accuracy so i guess this set is more personal than anything.Dont forget the chance for 30% flinch hax. This set works well on a surprise T-wave based team. Here are some calcs to show the power of Iron head in relation to MM.

    Iron head to standard lead azelf : 67.4% - 79.7% + bullet punch 34% - 40.2%: guaranteed 2hko

    Iron head to standard roserade lead : 90.5% - 106.5% + Bullet Punch 45% - 53.8% guaranteed 2hko

    Iron head vs. Machamp Anti lead : 46.1% - 54.2% Some chances for a 2hko.

    Iron head + bullet punch kills aero no problem

    Iron head to lead Tyranitar :66.8% - 79.2% + bullet punch 33.2% - 40.1% sure fire perfect 2hko even if min damage on both.

    The basis for this argument is iron head is far more reliable than meteor mash. Even though the attack boost is cool. Most smart players wont let metagross use those boost.
  5. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 6, 2009
    must say i love the mixed agiligross set. Is hp fire needed though? Magnezone is ohkod bh earthquake, so you're only missimg out on skarm. Perhaps grass knot for bulky grounds and waters, or some other hidden power, or meteor mash to boost attack and having another good stab attack
  6. haunter

    haunter Banned deucer.

    Aug 6, 2007
    Without HP fire Skarm, Forretress and Scizor to an extent are going to wall that set badly. Bronzong is in the same position. I'm not sure if that set is actually viable in OU, but without meteor mash Latias will wall it completely.
  7. gvmgvm40


    Jul 20, 2009
    Ah yes. I have a similar set. It's more like a cross between tank and mixed sets though.

    Metagross @ Leftovers
    Relaxed, Clear Body
    252 SA, 208 HP, 48 Atk
    ~ Bullet Punch
    ~ Pursuit
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Grass Knot/HP Fire

    208 is a Lefties number, max SA, rest in attack. I also have Jirachi for Wish support.
  8. ~helios~


    May 12, 2010
    Hi guys I´ve come with a metagross which will help me to get rid of most of revenge killers, including specs/scarf latias, scarfrachi and even scarflygon and to a lesser extent, agilitygross; it´s porpuse is to kill gyara´s revenge killers. Any rate is welcomed.

    Metagross @ Shuca Berry
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP/216 Atk/40 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk -SAtk)
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Pursuit
    ~ Zen Headbutt
    This is my respond to specs/scarf lati which metagross will trap with Pursuit. Ice Punch is to hit hard celebi, and to kill flygon after getting the EQ (and activing shuca berry). EQ to kill other metagross and Zen Headbutt to hit hard other pokemon, like bulky waters.


    Zen Headbutt vs 252hp / 252def swampert: 27.5% - 32.7%
    Ice Punch vs 252hp / 220def celebi: 33.2% - 39.1%
    252 spA timid choice specs latias vs this metagross: 43.7% - 51%
    252 atk adamant LO metagross vs this metagross: 35.2% - 41.8% (shuca berry)
    + 1 252 atk adamant LO salamence vs metagross: 52.7% - 62.6% (shuca berry)
    252 atk adamant LO salamence vs metagross: 35.2% - 41.8% (shuca berry)
    252 atk jolly flygon vs metagross: 29.9% - 35.4% (shuca berry)
    32 spA naive LO salamence: 36.3% - 42.9%
    252 atk jolly jirachi vs metagross: 30.2% - 35.7%
  9. Megamaster37


    Jan 6, 2010
    OK, so that set wasn't too great. Here's one thats underwent much more testing, and has shown that its easily something you don't want to meet up with.

    Modest Yanmega @ Choice Scarf
    Tinted Lens
    IVs: 30/31/31/31/31/31
    (252 Sp.Att/208 Speed/50 HP)
    Hidden Power (Dragon 70) /Air Slash/Bug Buzz/Shadow Ball or Psychic

    This set takes Yanmega's Tinted Lens ability and shows it's potential. Tinted Lens joined with HP Dragon gives Yanmega an attack that nothing but Shedinja can resist. The 208 Speed EV's give it 278 speed, enough to Outrun everything that isn't also Scarfed. Air Slash can also deal large amounts of damage to many Pokemon (Steel/Rock types and Magnezone will still take reduced damage) and has about a 1/3 chance to make the opponent flinch. Bug Buzz also give it a good 135-Base Power move, but is resisted by common OU Pokemon like Gengar, Infernape, and Blaziken, which makes both Air Slash and HP Dragon much better choices to attempt sweeps with. The last move was originally Giga Drain, but after farther 'research' I discovered that Shadow Ball is much better for a Choice Scarf set, but is unfortunately destroyed by a Normal-Type switch in. The other Option for Shadow Ball, Psychic, is stopped by Metagross, Jirachi, and Dark Types, but is stronger than Shadow Ball.

    Hope this set isn't "Terrible".
  10. Wind2008


    Mar 21, 2010
    I think you're over-estimating the power of Yanmega,it has trouble with any defensive pokemon,and with it's massive SR weakness it won't be switching in and out much.
  11. UnitRico


    Jun 8, 2009
    Here are two sets I've used a couple of times, and have worked pretty well:

    Lucario@Life Orb
    Modest nature
    EV's: 252SpAtk/252Spd/4(Sp)Def
    -Aura Sphere
    -Shadow Ball
    -Hidden Power Grass/Ice

    I've always heard people say SD Lucario was so great, even though I never had problems with it, since a lot of things outsped it. So, I wanted to use one with Agility, and since its SpAtk is higher then its Atk, I made a special one (which is also seen less). The EV's give him odd HP, which I always tend to do, even though SR doesn't even tickle him. Aura Sphere is a brilliant move, Shadow Ball gives perfect coverage, HP Ice is for Dragons and Breloom, Grass is for Waters, mainly Swampert. So far, I've only had a few problems with this set: Without an agility, it's very vulnerable, and priority is very deadly. I've tried Wise Glasses before, since I'm not a big fan of Life Orb without recovery, but it still needed more power.

    So, on to the second set, a dual-status Gengar:
    Gengar@Wide Lens
    Timid nature
    EV's: 252SpAtk/252Spd/4Def
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast

    The Wide Lens boosts the accuracy of 3 of Gengar's moves, and even though none of them get 100% accuracy, the boost still is enough to hit a lot more. Shadow Ball and Focus Blast are for coverage, WoW for physical attackers, and Hypnosis for something that Gengar can't kill, isn't physical and a big threat. HP Fire can be used against Scizor who love switching in, but if they Pursuit, they risk getting burned, and when they BP, they leave you open to switch to a counter.
  12. Ramblin Wreck

    Ramblin Wreck

    Dec 16, 2009
    Helios, dunno if you noticed, but Latias is gone.

    UnitRico, Mismagius does that much, much better. It's bulkier, and while it doesn't have Hypnosis it has Thunder Wave for the second status move.
  13. SatiSuicune


    Jan 26, 2010
    Dunno if this set has been said in this thread but I've used this set and its not to bad:

    Machamp @ Flame Orb
    252 Att/244 HP/12 Spe
    Close Combat
    Ice Punch

    This set isn't to bad, flame orb prevents other status effects like paralysis, and Facade works great with Guts and Burn, CC for STAB and 100 % accuracy, Payback for those ghosts, and Ice Punch for flying types, and better PP than Stone Edge. :D
  14. Darkvirus


    Feb 7, 2009
    sati the main problem with that is machamp is massivly useful for its reasonable bulk and CC kills that with the def drops
  15. ThirteenOfTwo


    May 10, 2010
    New OU/UU Lead: Shiftry @ Focus Sash
    EVs: 4 HP 252 Atk 252 Spe
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Hasty
    Fake Out
    Sunny Day
    Faint Attack

    So yeah. Maybe this idea is flawed, but it seems to work pretty damn well in matches. Fake Out on turn one, Sunny Day on turn two, Explode the same turn your HP drops below 100% and Faint Attack until then. Faint Attack is there for those pesky Ghost-types who like to eat Explosions. If I see a lead that I know is probably carrying priority (e.g. Scizor, Machamp) I can forgo the Sunny Day and just explode, or switch out. EVs are obviously there to make the big kaboom hurt more. This would be incredibly epic in UU and I have no idea why no one's thought of it (and posted it) yet, but it still works decently in OU.

    How it stacks up against other leads:

    Azelf: Is dead. 100% chance. Unless, of course, he U-Turns to something else, in which case whatever he U-Turned to is dead. Sunny Day is up.

    Aerodactyl: If he Taunts you he gets Stealth Rock up and you don't get Sunny Day up. Then he dies. If he decides to SR first instead of Taunting because he thinks you'll attack Sunny day is up and he's still dead.

    Swampert: Exploding works like a charm. He can't Roar you out because if he does Sunny Day teams laugh in his face once Sunny Day is up. Which it will be if he Roars.

    Metagross: Explosion might not kill it but boosted Fire moves sure as hell will the next turn. Sunny Day is up.

    Jirachi: Abuse Faint Attack after a Sunny Day. If he kills you, you always have boosted Fire. If you get him below 60%, meaning two of Faint Attacks, an Explosion will guaranteeably finish him.

    Infernape: Run like hell.

    Machamp: Machamp tends to carry Bullet Punch, forcing you to explode before you can Sunny Day. Good news is that he doesn't get to set anything up either, and Machamp is dead.

    Ninjask: Spam Faint Attack or switch to a Taunter and watch him scream.

    Roserade: Um... hope that the sleep misses. If it doesn't, it's just as though I exploded on a Ghost-type. Again, boosted SE Fire moves.

    Tyranitar: It's unfortunate that Sandstorm breaks your Sash. Then again, explosion puts a huge dent in this guy.

    Scizor: Sunny Day, Explode, finish it with boosted Fire which is now set up.

    Abomasnow: So Ice Shard means you can't put up Sunny Day right away. His hail inducer is dead. Who do you think won?

    tl;dr: An epic Anti-anti lead, as well as slaughtering Azelf and Pert.
  16. MegaKick


    Mar 27, 2009
    Focus sash does not let you survive explosion from yourself. Read the rules. Test your goddamn sets.
    Why run faint attack when you could run Sucker punch? if they plan to setup boom on them.
    Let me helps with your leads.

    Azelf: taunt as you sunny day. rock as you faint attack. he explods. he has his rocks set up and you have a very slow 1hp shiftry left as setup bait for any steel. Epic Fail

    Areodactyl: Dollars to donuts faint attack only 3hko's, so it can taunt, rock, and break your sash. Worst case - you have a dead shiftry who did nothing and a 1hp areodactyl that can get a free hit on any of your pokes. Epic Fail

    Swampert: Wont stay in in fear of grass knot.
    Succes in getting sun up, but azelf or areodactly does so much better.

    Metagross: Metoer Mash + bullet punch means he stays at 100% with sun up. Metagross now uses occa to survive any attack from your sun sweeper, and KO'es with metoer mash+bullet punch. Sun goes down. You bring in a sun setter upper, he explodes. You just lost 2 of your sunners and a sunny sweeper at the cost of the opponets suicide lead. Epic fail to the power of epic fail

    Jirachi: 60% of failure. Fail

    Infernape: I'm not even gonna explain. Epic fail mixed with shit.

    Ninjask: Protect from the fake out, use swords dance to survive the explosion. You just KO'ed yourself against a +2/+2 ninjask. lol. Fail

    Sleeps you. Fail

    Tyranitar has 100/110 defense and rock ype. He rocks as you explode. Your lead did nothing but let him setup. Epic Fail

    Scizor: Your never gonna explode. If you had ever faced this guy you'd know why. Gets sun up, nothing else. Not so good.

    Abomasnow: Blizzard+ice shard. When something with a fire move somes out, theyre gonna go to walrein and use surf.
  17. ThirteenOfTwo


    May 10, 2010
    No way, Sherlock. What was your first clue? Do you think everyone else is a complete idiot? I've been testing this set for about two weeks; I think I know what Explosion does. Instead of assuming everyone else is an idiot, why not learn about the concept of a "suicide lead"?

    Maybe because Sucker Punch doesn't hit on people who are switching in on you? And a Dusknoir or Rotom-H can just burn you and watch you die if you run Sucker Punch? Let's think here, please.

    In half a month of testing, I never ran into an Azelf that taunted me. They all forget about Chlorophyll and try to take you out by Flamethrowering as you SD. Then when you're suddenly faster than them you explode and look their Sash is gone! Bye Azelf.

    No, so it can taunt and then watch you explode in its face on the same turn. The sash is broken by Fake Out on turn one. On turn two you explode and no one gets any setup.

    What, by dying without taking Pert out? Aerodactyl and Azelf Taunt on turn one. Pert predicts the taunt and Ice Beams. Aerodactyl and Azelf set up Sunny Day, because that's what you claim they're so good at. Then they die to another Ice Beam. Pert is at full health and you got Sunny Day up: as opposed to either Pert is DEAD and you have Sunny Day up or something else is wounded and you have Sunny Day up. Remind me again why Aero is better?
    Do you automatically assume that the player is a retard or something? Have you ever heard of Heatran, the staple of OU Sun Teams, which outruns Leadgross and OHKOes it with Earth Power? You just lost your lead for their lead and got Sunny Day up, while they got jack. Sounds good to me.
    May I point out that your precious Azelf and Aerodactyl leads also have 60% of failure against ScarfRachi.
    Yeah, I mentioned that already. Thanks though.
    Because this lead must of course only use Explosion when any intelligent player would use Faint Attack and only Faint Attack when anyone intelligent would use Explosion. I like your style. Look, either you explode on what they pass to after breaking their subs with Night Slash (Ninjask won't break your sash for fear of the explosion) OR you switch to something that Taunts. Or Encores. Or Tricks a Scarf onto it. Bye bye Ninjask.
    Would you like to name me a SD lead who can hold its own against the most popular leads and doesn't have this flaw? Thanks for telling me what I already knew, again.
    No, he Rocks as you Sunny Day and stop the sandstorm that's crucial to his team. If he doesn't run and switch back in you explode and finish him with one of those grass-type moves that are so rare on Sunny Day teams.
    Bullet Punch derp derp derp let's insult his practice methods based on nothing but the set derp derp. Put it this way; even if you don't explode whatever comes in next has an OHKO with boosted fire. And speed, because something on there probably has Chlorophyll. Scizor is dead with no setup and you got off Sunny Day. If it U-turns then you can deal with that accordingly.
    Abomasnow never has Focus Sash as a lead. No point in faking out, so just explode. Since Abomasnow is the only thing in the game with Auto-Hail, now you switch to a Sunny Day setup poke and laugh as their Stallrein fails horribly at stalling. And they can never get hail up again. That was a really epic fail there.

    Please think about how an intelligent player would use the set before bashing it. Thank you.
  18. Farewell


    Jul 4, 2008
    name: Disable Hail Stall
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Disable
    move 3: Spikes
    move 4: Blizzard / Thunderwave
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe

    Disable might be a good idea on a Leftovers/Substitute set. This would work well if you need to Disable a Rapid Spinner that cannot threaten her (like Tentacruel), and that way you can switch her out without worry of being Rapid Spun.

    Disable also works with Substitute so that you can force a switch if the opponent only has 1 attack strong enough to break the Substitute, which also causes switches and racks up Spikes damage (and if you predict the switch you can set-up Spikes or another Substitute). The great part is that Disable works even if the attack misses, meaning it isn't hampered by Snow Cloak, in fact Snow Cloak allows it to really take advantage of it.

    Also, Disable can work on all moves so, unlike Taunt, it isn't limited in what types of moves are used, whether they be damage attacks or set-up moves. Imagine a Metagross without Meteor Mash, imagine a Gyarados without Waterfall, then you could switch in a Pokemon normally countered by it and do what's necessary. The best part is, Disable lasts for 4-7 turns, and can work for the long run. Also works on Pokemon Stuck in Outrage (like Choice Band Flygon).

    Disable also has the benefit for working on Choiced Pokemon, such as Choice Scarf Jirachi. This causes them to struggle.

    If you are worried that the 80% Accuracy on Disable will hamper it, just remember that in Hail the foes have an 80% chance of hitting you, and you can Substitute down to enable you don't get hit if it misses.

    Thunderwave can also be used to help ensure a Substitute gets up, just ensure the foes you face aren't faster and packing Taunt, which shouldn't be too much of a Problem since you are packing Thunderwave... beyond the switch in. Blizzard, however, allows you to hit Dragonite, Salamence, Flygon, Gliscor, etc. for strong damage. with 1-2HKOs.

    Disable, Thunderwave, and Substitute (with Snow Cloak) should be enough to cause switches, which racks up some Entry hazard damage. This combined with Hail can really aid in making Froslass not just annoying, but a threat. Locked in users, and Pokemon who rely on a specific good move can really suffer from missing their best source of use, and allow you to find a counter, or even better, cause them to switch.
  19. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Mar 6, 2009
    Anyway, I love this set idea!! I'm all for new and creative stuff, especially in the lead metagame. Using Sunny day says you've got guts right there, and I love how this lead utilities Chlorophyll against other unsuspecting leads. You seem to have a pretty decent strategy for dealing with a lot of stuff. The only issue I'd see you're probably aware of - Infernape also gets an ugly boost from the sun you're after with this team, so be careful with the stupid monkey. Same thing goes for Heatran leads.
  20. Unbreakable


    May 21, 2010
    Pokemon Name: Jirachi
    Set Name: Withering Attack
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Move 1: Iron Head
    Move 2: Psychic
    Move 3: Charge Beam
    Move 4: AncientPower
    Nature: Rash
    Item: Occa Berry
    IVs: 29 HP
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk

    My initial idea was a Fire Blast/Discharge/Blizzard/Iron Head build, but a quick glance through Jirachi's move pool reveals that it has access to none of these. Therefore, I threw this together pretty much on the spot.

    The strategy is fairly straightforward. The only cases where you shouldn't lead with Charge Beam is if the foe:

    -Is a Ground-type
    -Has Volt Absorb or Motor Drive
    -Possesses Sand Veil and a sandstorm is raging

    In these cases, Psychic is generally the better opening move, as not only does STAB raise it to a respectable 135 base power, but also has a 20% chance of lowering the foe's SpD one stage, often forcing a switch should this happy event occur. Against everything else, Charge Beam is guaranteed to raise Jirachi's formidable SpA one stage, barring a miss, and helps Jirachi muscle its way through would-be walls. A monster that resists both Charge Beam and Psychic is a beast that does not exist in OU, but even gimmick monsters can be dealt with: Cacturne and Shiftry eat Iron Head, and Shedinja is wiped out with AncientPower.

    As far as counters go, Magnezone is an opponent's best bet, as it not only resists the entire set, but its Magnet Pull prevents Jirachi from switching out. In theorymon, however, Jirachi can overcome this obstacle if it has gotten in enough Charge Beams and spams Psychic. Attempting flinch hax with Iron Head is not recommended despite Jirachi's superior speed due to Magnezone's 4x Steel resistance. Thus, the best partners for this build are those that have a penchant for turning Steel-types into heaps of twisted metal, with Infernape and Lucario being among the prime suspects.

    Jirachi, like most monsters in OU, also benefits from having a teammate that can set up Stealth Rock. If the opponent decides to send in a monster that's weak to the rocks, AncientPower will quickly make them pay, and as a side benefit has a 20% chance of a +1 boost across the board for you.
  21. Instinctive


    Oct 2, 2007
    I would suggest using your own Magnezone with HP Ground and a Scarf, this way you can take out Heatran and other Zones first, and exen explode on Blissey.

    I also would suggest going more defensive since you'll be getting the SAtk boost often, and speed and defense will be more important.

    Finally, and this may be moronic, but I would replace Ancientpower. It doesn't hit anything noteworthy and feels like filler to me, perhaps a HP Fire or Shadow Ball (idk if Rachi gets SB) for other steels/a SDef drop again, or maybe even Sub or Twave or Wish for some support or status blocking or healing.

    Great set. I may have to try it.


    May 19, 2009
    Pressure | Impish | 248 HP/252 Def/8 SpD
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Roost
    ~ Toxic
    ~ Protect/Attack Order

    I have been wanting to use Vespiquen, one of my favourite 4th gen Pokemon, for a while, and I figured why not use a SubRoost set since it's pretty bulky. I'm not too sure on the EVs or whether Attack Order should be used more than Protect, but it seems to be doing ok so far (it managed to stall out a Clefable, of all things). I've been using it with Toxic Spikes support and a spinner (as it kinda needs both). I'm liking it since it can deal pretty well with things it's weak to regardless of being pathetic in the speed department, and Protect really helps Pressure stall Stone Edge PP as long as I have a Sub. I know it's pretty vastly outclassed by Zapdos and other OU SubRoosters but it's still performing pretty well.
  23. Articanus


    Dec 2, 2006
    2548 HP EVs: now why hasn't anyone else thought of that!

    but seriously

    Jirachi @ Toxic Orb
    Serene Grace: Timid
    40 HP, 216 Speed, 252 Sp. Attack
    Psychic/ Flash Cannon
    Calm Mind

    It's been an excellent lure for random stuff and crippling them for the rest of the match: also does a very interesting job at coming into opposing trick users.

    The two best counters for the usual CM Jirachi sets(with no sub) are Blissey and Perish Song Celebi. This enables you to permanently cripple them, meaning if you run a team of Sp. Attackers everything just got a bit easier.
  24. haunter

    haunter Banned deucer.

    Aug 6, 2007
    The Vespiqueen set sadly will hardly be usable in OU because of SR.

    The Jirachi set can work against Celebi and maybe scarf-TTar but I believe that more often than not you'll miss wish as self recovery and team support move. Wish alreay allows you to beat Blissey 1 vs 1.


    May 19, 2009
    As long as you have a spinner I don't see where the problem is. Apart from the Rock weakness Bug/Flying is a decent typing so if you come in on the right things you can Sub down and Roost away SR damage freely. You do have to be careful about when you bring it in on though. :/

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