New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

[Jah.Anon]

Tentacruel-choice specs
move 1-hydro pump
move 2-ice beam
move 3-sludge bomb/giga drain
move 4- hp electric/giga drain
nature-modest/timid
evs 252 satk 252 spe 4 hp
ability-clear body

This tentacruels job is to pretty much surprise the opponent as they switch in Tentacruel's counters which get 2HKOed by a specs hydro pump, although life orb may do the same thing it can't switch in repeadietly into things like heatren's Fire blast. The choice between giga drain and hp electric is if you want to take out Swampert or Empoleon. Also if you think sludge bomb has terrible coverage you can use both.modest or timid is power or speed.

calcs with modest nature
hydro pump vs. defensive rotom 72.4%-85.2% small chance to ko with rocks
hydro pump vs. choice rotom 91.3%-107.5% ko with rocks
hydro pump vs. cm wish jirachi 57.4%-67.8% 2hko
hydro pump vs. scarf jirachi 68.4%-80.4%
hydro pump vs. spiker Skarmory 93.4%-109.9%
hydro pump vs. physically defensive forry 99.4%-117.2%

against empoleon and swampert
hydro pump vs. leadpert 62.9%-72.4% 2HKO
giga drain vs. lead pert 84.2%-100% ohko with 1 layer of spikes and sr
hp electric vs. Defensive Empoleon 40.3%-47.8% it will faint before Tentacruel goes down

I will do calcs for timid nature and sludge bomb calcs if you guys want me to

I am testing it on shoddy with a team that usually gets three layers of spikes and sr up so it's working fairly well, I've found that timid nature is worse than modest.

My specs Tentacrual set, that didn't get any attention from two pages ago.

 

[Alan]

I've tried specs tenta, sludge bomb is a bad option (steels are everywhere and we dont need scizor/lucario/metagross/subtran/jirachi setting up in our face. the actual power is very underwhelming compared to say, specs vappy or starmie. however its a pretty cool set to catch stuff off guard i guess. rapid spin is a good option in the last slot if you get their spin blockers with h-pump.

 

[Shizzle]

I have used Specs and Scarf Tentacruel in the past, and sure it works, in the same way as Choice Scarf Skarmory works, its just purely outclassed by Starmie/other Water Special Sweepers.

 

[sleep_talk]

The ONLY thing that you're hitting with Dynamicpunch is Heatran, as Tyranitar fears Iron Head, especially if it's paralyzed. Also, paralysis + confusion makes the opponent have a 37.5% chance of attacking, while paralysis + Iron Head flinch makes the opponent have a 30% chance of attacking.

As for Ice Punch vs Fire Punch, you sacrifice coverage vs Steels to hit Gliscor and Flygon, as Hippowdon can tank whatever you throw at it. You might say "Oh well Dynamicpunch hits Steel-types also", but I'd rather have a 150 SE move with 100% accuracy (Fire Punch) than to try and hit with a 200 SE move with 50% accuracy (DynamicPunch).

Additionally, DynamicPunch has 8 PP compared to Iron Head's 24.

the same argument also applies to iron head as hippodon and even bulky water types like suicune and swampert can tank hits all day long. and the common steels in ou are brozong, empoleon, forretress, heatran, jirachi, magnezone, metagross, scizor and skarmory.

vs bronzong it usually has heatproof so you're effectively hitting for 75 bp
vs empoleon resists iron head. neutral to fire punch
vs jirachi fire punch or dynamic punch. iron head gets resisted
vs magnezone same as jirachi
vs metagross resists iron head and fire punch is a 3HKO
vs skarmory takes fire punch pretty well and sets up spikes regardless

as you can see you won't be using iron head very often as you'll have to flinch hax your way through physically bulky opponents that resist it.
the only two steels you do hit are forretress and scizor and besides confusion makes them have a 50% chance of attacking themselves which functions just as well as iron head

the jirachi set i listed is a great team player by spreading status and acting as a lure, it does its job well by removing dangerous walls such as gliscor and revenge killers such as flygon which the standard jirachi cannot achieve, this lets sweepers such as lucario sweep much more easily. not only that but standard jirachi is also walled by swampert although it is not adviseble to leave in jirachi either way as swampert's (lead) earthquake is a 2HKO.

however the true secret to this set is the important set up time it provides. jirachi's best partners are gyarados and kingdra who resist both ground type moves and fire type moves directed at jirachi and in the latter case has a 4x resistance to fire. those are the only two types of attacking moves you'll see directed at jirachi and if you manage to confuse them then you are almost guaranteed a switch netting you a free dragon dance. this is made possible since confusion lingers even after you switch whilst iron head requires jirachi to stay in and risk getting hit by explosion or SE moves.

if still in doubt how about you give it a try, i doubt you'll be disappointed

 

[Lucalibur]

bronzong is most of the time levitate. empoleon take neutral from fire punch(you said he resisted). fire punch hit jirachi harder then D-punch and wont miss all time. zone still beat you most of the time because D-punch probably wont hit twice in a row, heck you would be lucky if hit once, and zone 2hko you anyway when you CANT ohko him. you also lose to skarm if you dont carry t-bolt so D-punch is not helping against him.

you think D-punch will hit all time, well guess what? it wont. its dumb to say your jirachi can beat gliscor and/or flygon while the standard cant since standard run ice punch. if you use jirachi has a check/counter to flygon then you better search for another counter because EQ is ohkoing you and you DONT outspeed, flygon speed tie with you(and i am talking about the rare non-scarf variant).

in the end all your set does is HAVE A CHANCE to beat heatran while being worst i every other aspect. if is not machamp then its not worth running D-punch.

 

[sleep_talk]

bronzong is most of the time levitate. empoleon take neutral from fire punch(you said he resisted). fire punch hit jirachi harder then D-punch and wont miss all time. zone still beat you most of the time because D-punch probably wont hit twice in a row, heck you would be lucky if hit once, and zone 2hko you anyway when you CANT ohko him. you also lose to skarm if you dont carry t-bolt so D-punch is not helping against him.

you think D-punch will hit all time, well guess what? it wont. its dumb to say your jirachi can beat gliscor and/or flygon while the standard cant since standard run ice punch. if you use jirachi has a check/counter to flygon then you better search for another counter because EQ is ohkoing you and you DONT outspeed, flygon speed tie with you(and i am talking about the rare non-scarf variant).

in the end all your set does is HAVE A CHANCE to beat heatran while being worst i every other aspect. if is not machamp then its not worth running D-punch.

sorry i think you misunderstand, i was referring to the substitue + thunderwave set when i said "standard"

jirachi can beat flygon behind a sub with ice punch, which isn't even listed as an option

you also make it sound like dp will always miss, its 50/50 so you could argue either way. if you read my other posts you'll see that i have already taken into account the misses through good teambuilding

 

[UltiMario]

The thing is if you're relying on DPunch it's a coin flip every time you go. DynamicPunch will miss so often that half of the games you play Jirachi will fail to do any damage AT ALL, the other Half you have a 50% chance of DynamicPunch (due to confusion) actually winning it for you. In the long run, DynamicPunch actually has 25% accuracy due to relying on confusion. That's less reliable than OHKO moves, which is ridiculous. It's better to do at least a little damage each game rather than none.

 

[jc104]

The only way I could ever see Dynamicpunch working on Jirachi is on some sort of Gravity set. Thunder, Iron Head, Dynamicpunch, Gravity could work pretty well. The advantage of Dynamicpunch is that you can switch and set up instead of having to stay in to prevent the opponent attacking. Nonetheless, outside or Gravity it is far too unreliable to warrant use. The opponent can simply switch until it misses, which is what differentiates it from, say, Zap Cannon Forretress, which apparantly used to see some use.

According to Smogon, Jirachi does not learn Dynamicpunch. I'm sure that's wrong, but still, it might show how much competetive merit it has.

 

[Megamaster37]

According to Smogon, Jirachi does not learn Dynamicpunch. I'm sure that's wrong, but still, it might show how much competetive merit it has.

Jirachi learns DynamicPunch from Third Gen tutors.

Also, I'd like some comments on my OU Miltank lead now thats it's been tested.

Miltank @ Lum Berry
Careful - 252 HP/32 Def/176 SpDef/48 Speed
Scrappy
Thunder Wave
Stealth Rock
Counter
Return/Seismic Toss

So far, this set has proven that Miltank can be a very good lead in OU. Thunder Wave allows you to Paralyze leads and almost guarentee you get up rocks. Counter is so that you can deal large amounts of damage to leads like Machamp, Metagross, and Infernape. Lum Berry lets you recover from statuses like Confusion from Machamp's DynamicPunch and Sleep from Gengar and Roserade leads. This set does have some problems with Taunting leads like Aerodactyl and Azelf, and lacks a Strong Attack stat. It also lacks a good damaging move on Special-Attacking leads.

Damage Calcs (All Calcs are done using lead sets):

Metagross (Lead Set)- Meteor Mash: 42.9% - 51%
Machamp (Attacking Lead Set)- DynamicPunch: 84.3% - 99.5% -- I have a choice to Paralyze and set down Rocks or Counter and KO Champ
Jirachi (252 Att/Adamant)- Iron Head: 28.2% - 33.5%
Infernape (Lead Set)- Fake Out: 7.6% - 9.1% / Close Combat: 67.5% - 79.7% -- Can Counter on CC or Paralyze and set up Stealthg Rock
Gengar (252 SpA/Timid)- Focus Blast: 84.3% - 99.5% -- Gengar will try to use Hypnosis first, so it'll get Paralyzed and I'll get down SR.
Roserade (Toxic Spikes Set)- Leaf Storm: 55.8% - 66.2% -- Will use Sleep Powder first, so I can Paralyze it and set down Stealth Rock
Hippowdon (Physical Wall)- Earthquake: 27.7% - 33% -- I can't Paralyze, so I set up rocks, then Counter.
Tyranitar (Lead)- Stone Edge: 36.8% - 43.7% -- I can Paralyze and set up rocks. I outspeed, so if he fails to attack me on either on these turns, I can Counter SE back for Good Damage.
Crobat-- Will Taunt : Brave Bird: 32.7% - 38.8% -- I'll be forced to use Counter or Return
Aerodactyl-- Will Taunt : Stone Edge: 33.5% - 39.6% -- I'll be forced to Counter or Return
Azelf-- Will Taunt : Psychic: 35.8% - 42.1% / U-Turn (if 252 Att): 17.5% - 20.8% -- Return is my only Option, but it still does 42.1% - 49.7% despite Miltank's poor attack.
Swampert (Mix Lead)- Earthquake: 27.7% - 32.7% / Surf: 24.4% - 28.9%

If I missed any leads, point them out and I'll Calc. Return will do over 100 to Leads that aren't defensive, but can be replaced with Seismic Toss to beat Steel/Rock Types like Metagross and Tyranitar.

I'll test it with Milk Drink.

 

[muffinhead]

Sunny Day Flygon
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
Flamethrower
Earth Power/ Dragon Pulse
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Special Attack/ 6 Special Defense/ 252 Speed

This set is based around drawing out a certain threat and removing it. Choice Scarf Flygon is all too popular today, so send this Flygon in EARLY GAME for a revenge kill on a pokemon that is relatively healthy (so that the opponent will switch it out). The opponent will switch in something to counter Flygon, expecting to see Flygon U-turn away. However, this set will use Sunny Day on the switch, and then proceed to KO the opponent's switch-in. Life Orb and Modest is used here to hit harder and prevent the sun from hindering your team later on. Timid can be used to speed tie +natured base 100s, but keep in mind that Bulky Gyarados will nearly always beat you.

Damage Calculations v. common Flygon counters (in the sun):

Solarbeam on Suicune (Crocune): 58.9% - 69.8% (2HKO)
Solarbeam on Vaporeon (Standard Wish Support): 62.9% - 74.1% (2HKO)
Dragon Pulse on Gliscor (Stallbreaker): 54.5% - 64.4% (2HKO)
Solarbeam on Hippowdon (Physical Wall): 74.8% - 88.1% (2HKO)
Solarbeam on Swampert (CursePert): 100% (OHKO)
Flamethrower on Skarmory (Spiker): 100% (OHKO)
Flamethrower on Forretress (Spiker): 100% (OHKO)

None of the above pokemon have anything that can touch Flygon in the sun unless:
1) Suicune/ Vaporeon have Ice Beam
2) Hippowdon has Ice Fang
3) Specially defensive Skarmory may survive a Flamethrower even with Stealth Rock (94% - 110.8%).

Damage Calculations v. switch-ins expecting U-Turn:

Dragon Pulse on Gyarados (Bulky Dragon Dance): 40.8% - 48.1% (With Leftovers and Stealth Rock, Flygon has a good chance to 2HKO)
Earth Power on Heatran (Any set): 100% (OHKO)
Dragon Pulse on Dragonite (Dragon Dance): 78.2% - 92.2% (High Chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock and Leftovers factored in)

Overview: This Flygon can act as a revenge killer to draw out the opponent's wall and proceed to KO the wall. Any sweeper that does will with Suicune, Vaporeon, Swampert, Skarmory, Heatran, and Gliscor gone will definitely benefit from this Flygon.

Dragon Pulse or Earth Power?
If Gliscor, Gyarados, or Dragonite are more problematic to your team, then Dragon Pulse is the better option. However, this leaves you completely walled by Heatran. If your team can handle Heatran easily, then Dragon Pulse is better.

 

[greg3064]

That Miltank looks pretty solid. Shut down by a fast Taunt, but that's not a huge problem.

You missed Swampert, who it would probably have trouble with, being immune to Thunder Wave and usually carrying special attacks. Counter may work against it if it EQs, but if your opponent realizes that Miltank is much more bulky physically they probably won't. A good lead nonetheless.

Lead Azelf commonly runs Fire Blast and Explosion, so check calcs on those. Explosion will OHKO but Fire Blast would be weaker than Psychic. U-turn might be worth looking at too.

The only point of Return seems to be hitting those faster Taunters, so maybe you could put Milk Drink on there over Return and just switch for those threats, allowing it to support with paralysis later on and refresh SR if necessary. A bit of a stretch to just be left with Counter but it might work with proper team support.

 

[supermarth64]

the same argument also applies to iron head as hippodon and even bulky water types like suicune and swampert can tank hits all day long.

Your set isn't beating Hippowdon anyway as Ice Punch is a 5-6HKO. As for Suicune + Swampert, your set deals a grand total of 14.9% - 17.6% to standard Crocune and 23.7% - 28.1% to offensive Suicune, while it does 17.6% - 20.8% to standard Swampert, meaning that you're doing JACK. Hell, you'll probably run of DynamicPunch PP before you can even KO them. All confusion is is a "mild annoyance" to them. So far, your set does nothing.

and the common steels in ou are brozong, empoleon, forretress, heatran, jirachi, magnezone, metagross, scizor and skarmory.

vs bronzong it usually has heatproof so you're effectively hitting for 75 bp

| Bronzong | Ability | Levitate | 82.5 |
| Bronzong | Ability | Heatproof | 17.5 |
So much for "usually". 100 BP + confusion vs 300 BP + 36% chance of burning him if you didn't Twave already.

vs empoleon resists iron head. neutral to fire punch

If you got it Paralyzed, you won because it isn't sweeping. Go ahead and flinch it to death, it's not sweeping you.

vs jirachi fire punch or dynamic punch. iron head gets resisted

See Bronzong. Isn't breaking your Sub in 1 hit unless it has Fire Punch. Your Fire Punch 3HKOes, DPunch 4HKOes. You're missing 50% of the time, but I'll be nice and give 2 confusion hits so you've wasted... I'll say 6 DynamicPunch PP. Wish CM outstalls DynamicPunch PP and beats the regular set anyway, so no.

vs magnezone same as jirachi

2x Fire Punch from standard SubTave does 80% min, plus SR is 86%. You can easily flinch the rest away. Good luck hitting twice with DynamicPunch.

vs metagross resists iron head and fire punch is a 3HKO

ThunderWave messes up Agility Metagross, Fire Punch 3HKOes, DynamicPunch 4HKOes, but you're missing 50% of the time, so you've used up most of your Dpunch PP.

vs skarmory takes fire punch pretty well and sets up spikes regardless

Does that for both so your set STILL doesn't do any better.

as you can see you won't be using iron head very often as you'll have to flinch hax your way through physically bulky opponents that resist it.

General STAB, Fire Punch for Steels who resist Iron Head, duh.

the only two steels you do hit are forretress and scizor and besides confusion makes them have a 50% chance of attacking themselves which functions just as well as iron head

Or you can just Fire Punch to KO them and not have to worry about confusion trying to take them down.

the jirachi set i listed is a great team player by spreading status and acting as a lure, it does its job well by removing dangerous walls such as gliscor and revenge killers such as flygon which the standard jirachi cannot achieve

Yea, standard SubTwave Jirachi spreads status also. All that you've gotten is to hit Gliscor and Flygon by sacrificing good coverage vs Steel-types and general STAB.

this lets sweepers such as lucario sweep much more easily.

Yea buy getting rid of Gliscor. You've still sacrificed coverage to hit ONE Pokemon that threatens Lucario.

not only that but standard jirachi is also walled by swampert although it is not adviseble to leave in jirachi either way as swampert's (lead) earthquake is a 2HKO.

Ok so your Jirachi like 5HKOes Swampert with DynamicPunch missing 50% of the time. No difference.

however the true secret to this set is the important set up time it provides. jirachi's best partners are gyarados and kingdra who resist both ground type moves and fire type moves directed at jirachi and in the latter case has a 4x resistance to fire. those are the only two types of attacking moves you'll see directed at jirachi and if you manage to confuse them then you are almost guaranteed a switch netting you a free dragon dance. this is made possible since confusion lingers even after you switch whilst iron head requires jirachi to stay in and risk getting hit by explosion or SE moves.

Confusion is about the ONLY thing DynamicPunch does as it does JACK for coverage. Idk how Jirachi is getting hit by Explosion or SE moves from BEHIND A SUBSTITUTE.

if still in doubt how about you give it a try, i doubt you'll be disappointed

Why would I want to try a set that's worse than the standard set.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

Sunny Day Flygon
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
Flamethrower
Earth Power/ Dragon Pulse
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Special Attack/ 6 Special Defense/ 252 Speed

No, I'm not really feeling this set. First, this is quite weak, with only 80 Base Sp. Atk. For moveset changes I recommend Fire Blast over Flamethrower, and Draco meteor for the last slot, because you can't expect Flygon to try to sweep. This set should be used to set up Sunny day, and attack if need be. I think you might be forgetting, that Hippowdon has sandstream, so Solarbeam will have to take a turn to power up. There just seems like quite a few pokemon outclass this. Heatran can run a nearly identical set, and it's much more powerful. Quite a few Suciune and Vaporeon run Ice beam. Also with Hippowdon, Once they know you have Solar beam, then can just switch in and roar you out easily. It looks like you would beat Swampert, If Sunny day is in effect, but if it isn't then it can easily Ice Beam you.

Edit:
Also, I didn't mention that set is utterly walled by Blissey and Snorlax wall that set easily. Also, once your opponent figures out it's a completely special, Tyrannitar can easily switch the weather to Sandstorm and set up on you.

 

[muffinhead]

No, I'm not really feeling this set. First, this is quite weak, with only 80 Base Sp. Atk. For moveset changes I recommend Fire Blast over Flamethrower, and Draco meteor for the last slot, because you can't expect Flygon to try to sweep. This set should be used to set up Sunny day, and attack if need be. I think you might be forgetting, that Hippowdon has snadstream, so Solarbeam will have to take a turn to power up. There just seems like quite a few pokemon outclass this. Heatran can run a nearly identical set, and it's much more powerful. Quite a few Suciune and Vaporeon run Ice beam. Also with Hippowdon, Once they know you have Solar beam, then can just switch in and roar you out easily. It looks like you would beat Swampert, If Sunny day is in effect, but if it isn't then it can easily Ice Beam you.

I completely understand why Heatran could run the same set and probably better, but that is not the main reason i chose to try out this Flygon. The main reason is that when a Heatran is sent out, it is known for being a special attacker that also carries Explosion. Flygon however, is known for being a physically based Choice Scarf user. This throws off the opponent. Another reason i like this Flygon is because of his typing. If a team needs a lure for a certain pokemon, this Flygon functions a lot better than Heatran.

Another minor thing:

muffinhead sent out Flygon.
opponent sent out Pikachu.
opponent withdrew Pikachu and sent out Hippowdon.
a sandstorm brewed!
Flygon used Sunny Day.
the sun began to shine! :P

 

[wavedash]

Sunny Day Flygon

This set looks like it's really good at what it does. But with Flygon's fantastic base SpAtk of 80, you're not going to be hitting stuff very hard. A good lure, but I don't see it doing much outside of eliminating one or two specific Pokémon. I'm not sure it's worth the team slot.

 

[Shizzle]

Flygon set is outright terrible. Not only must you get lucky to get a good matchup, but even after you set up Sunnyday, all your walls/checks such as Suicune and Vaporeon OHKO you with Ice Beam.

 

[Jah.Anon]

@muffinhead

I used that set when I was a noob in adv, with sunny day, solarbeam, fire blast and dragon claw and it worked ingame in the battle tower. Other than that this set will not work, because sunny day isn't even that great in the first place and so many things can change the weather or wall this set, Tyranitar does both(assuming it switches in after you use sunny day). There are better sunny day set ups.

 

[Futility]

Comparing Lanturn to Porygon2

-ScarfTran's Fire Blast does 22-26% on Lanturn, 55-65% against P2.

As Porygon2's purpose is to switch into Heatran and beat it, Porygon2 won't be taking any damage from Scarftran's Fire Blast as P2 will copy Heatran's ability Flash Fire as it comes in.

And just in case Heatran isn't carrying a Choice Item and can change moves, here's how Earth Power does against Lanturn and Porygon2:

Erath Power vs. Lanturn (EV's by KoH- 43.5% - 51.7% w/o Shuca, 21.7% - 25.8% with)
Earth Power vs. Porygon2- 27.5% - 32.6% (Remember that Porygon2 has instant recovery, Lanturn does not)

For the purpose of switching into Heatran and carrying out the parafusing strategy, Porygon2 probably does the better job. It doesn't take away from Lanturn's abilities as a parafuser, I was just pointing out semantics.

 

[Delko]

Here I got a two set I'm currently using. It's a bulky, stallish Heatran and a Forretress.​

----------​

Heatran @ leftovers/ calm/ flash fire
252 HP, 4 SAtk, 252 SDef​

- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Roar​

This Heatran is best used in a stall team (I use him with the Forretress). It's pretty bulky on the special side soit can come in on many special attackers. Jolteon for example is taken care of with Earth Power while Heatran can shrug of every attack Jolteon has to offer.
Stealth Rock is a pretty obvious move and is a given on most teams, stall teams in particular. Flamethrower is used over Fire Blast for secure PP and accuracy and does take out as many threats as Fire Blast would since SAtk doesn't gor any EV's. Earth Power is for coverage and of course opposing Heatran. With this EV's spread Heatran doesn't need a Shuca Berry to survive an unboosted Earth Power from opposing Heatran. Roar is a great phazing move and it allows you to abuse the hell out of entry hazards. There are a lot of pokemon who cannot touch Heatran so switch in Heatran against them, forcing them to switch and Roar out their switch-in is a great strategy.​

----------

Forretress @ leftovers/ sassy/ sturdy
252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 SDef​

- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake​

Forretress makes a decent lead with these moves. Against offensively weaker leads such as Swampert you can set up a couple of layers of Spikes while still keep your own field clean by spinning those of your opponent away. Faster leads such as Aerodactyl are taken out by a Gyro Ball + Rapid Spin, while they Taunt + SR most of the time, leaving you in a good position. Earthquake allows Forretress to hold Leftovers as an item as with 1 layer of Spikes up Earthquake will KO most Magnezone, while Thunderbolt cannot OHKO you.​

----------​

I'm using this duo paired with RestTalk, Roar'ing Gyarados most of the time to take physical hits like a champ. Gyarados is also great for abusing entry hazards as it is pretty bulky.​

 

[Jah.Anon]

@Delko

For the Heatran set didn't earthworm use a set similair to that in a warstory can't remeber which one. I really think it's a good set and would work. I'm not sure about the Forry set, Infernape and Heatren beat it, I'm not sure how much Dynamicpunch from Machamp does. Jirachi can also just Fire punch it. I think you should list lum berry as an option to sort of deal with Smeargle and Roserade.

 

[Delko]

Yeah Earthworm has a similar Heatran, but if I remember correctly it had Protect over another move (I think over Stealth Rock because that's the most logical).

Yes Forretress looses to the leads you listed but thats why Gyarados and Heatran make good teammates for him as they cover those leads.

 

[blasphemy1]

Much like my previous set I posted, this is just a variation on the current standard. Roserade is an excellent Pokemon for setting up Toxic Spikes, but with Energy Ball it has the ability to counter Charge Beam Rotom-A and more easily combat Vaporeon. Also, the only Toxic Spike set in the analysis is in the lead position, while this set takes advantage of its impressive special bulk.

Roserade @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
EV: 252 HP / 24 Def / 136 SpD / 96 Spe
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Toxic Spikes

Energy Ball allows you to deal with bulky waters like usual, but it also allows you to beat Vaporeon and Charge Beam variants of Rotom-A. Despite the lack of Special Attack investment, Energy Ball easily OHKOs Swampert, and does up to 58% to Vaporeon. It does 36.3% minimum to Charge Beam Rotom-A (and Charge Beam Jolteon with HP Grass), which means you can stop it from setting up. Meanwhile, Shadow Ball only does 29.6% maximum, so you can beat it if it decides to set up a Substitute turn 1. While it may seem like a poor choice to not have a coverage move for steels like Scizor, they will either: A)be crippled on the switch-in by Sleep Powder, or B)OHKO you with Bullet Punch. In the case of more bulky steels like Jirachi and Metagross, you should switch out anyways, preferably to Magnezone. By not using HP Fire, you open up the slot for another attack. Sludge Bomb provides dual STAB, and poisons flyers/levitating Pokemon such as Flygon and Gyarados. It also allows you to combat Zapdos, who might try to set up a Substitute and Pressure-stall.

The EVs are pretty generic. Maximum HP for durability, and 136 Special Defense EVs grants a bonus point. 96 Speed EVs allow you to outrun Adamant Breloom, as well as most Tyranitar. The rest went into Defense, which allows you to survive CB Scizor's Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock + Leftovers (assuming no Sandstorm).

This set is best used with Pokemon who can take advantage of Toxic Spikes and Roserade's ability to switch into various special threats. Anything from SD Lucario, Agility Empoleon, CB Scizor, or even DD Dragonite, are good choices.

 

[Canada]

CruelLead

@Mystic Water/Focus Sash/Leftovers
4HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid nature

-Toxic Spikes
-Hydro Pump
-Rapid Spin
-Giga Drain/Ice Beam

This is a fairly simple lead tenta that is designed to function both as an effective anti-lead to many common leads as well as a reliable toxic spiker to support pokemon such as agility empoleon and offensive suicune. Against suicide leads such as azelf and aerodactyl, simply hydro pump followed by a rapid spin for the KO and your side of the field should be cleared. The ever popular machamp and infernape leads are unable to touch tentacruel with their usual movesets. Giga drain deals huge damage to swampert as well as healing off any EQ damage it deals. Ice beam can be used if you fear roserade, but honestly, you will only activate the sash and you'll be asleep anyway. On the topic of roserade, all you have to do is switch back in and absorb the Tspikes so dealing damage to it isn't the best use of your time anyway. Yes, the speed and attacking stats make this inferior to a starmie anti lead, but it makes up for it with the ability to set up toxic spikes. This idea just came to me, so forgive me for not giving exact damage calcs. I'll be sure to post them when I get the time.

EDIT: Against azelf, you're going to have to hope that it either taunts you turn one or carries fire blast or some other move over psychic. Focus sash can remedy this problem, but you lose some power on hydro pump

 

[Ankoku]

Use Black Sludge over Leftovers for obvious reasons. Even a Modest max SAtk Hydro Pump cannot reach OHKO range against an Azelf (81.2% - 95.5%), and certainly not within range to 2HKO with a Rapid Spin.

 

[Canada]

Use Black Sludge over Leftovers for obvious reasons. Even a Modest max SAtk Hydro Pump cannot reach OHKO range against an Azelf (81.2% - 95.5%), and certainly not within range to 2HKO with a Rapid Spin.

using black sludge is not a good idea at all. the premier trick lead in OU is jirachi, who would not mind black sludge at all and then gets a harmful item to give one of my teammates