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Process Update New and Updated Competitive Moves

Discussion in 'CAP Policy Review' started by tennisace, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Alright I compiled the list of moves that were changed to be competitively good and all the new competitive moves. For the new competitive moves, I'm unsure on some of their usefulness in reality. In addition, all exclusive moves are marked.

    Non-Competitive moves that were sufficiently updated
    Reference - http://serebii.net/blackwhite/oldattacks.shtml

    Jump Kick - (Raised to 100 BP from 85, lowered to 10 pp from 25)
    Thrash - (Same as Outrage now)
    Petal Dance - (Same as Outrage now)
    Growth - (+1 stage to Atk/SpA)
    Bullet Seed - (Raised to 25 bp from 10, only useful with Skill Link/Tech)
    Icicle Spear - (Same as Bullet Seed)
    Rock Blast - (Same as Bullet Seed, only 90 acc)
    Doom Desire - (does neutral damage, raised to 140 bp/100 acc from 120/85, Jirachi signature attack)
    Drain Punch - (raised to 75 BP and 10 pp from 60 and 5)

    New Competitive moves
    Reference - http://serebii.net/blackwhite/attacks.shtml

    Hone Claws
    Psycho Shock
    Body Purge - Agility Clone, halves weight also
    Mountain Storm
    Sludge Wave
    Butterfly Dance
    Heavy Bomber
    Electra Ball
    Nitro Charge
    Coil
    Trickery (maybe)
    Little By Little (maybe)
    Clear Smog
    Assist Power (maybe)
    Boiling Water
    Shell Break
    Evil Eye (maybe)
    Gear Change
    Overhead Throw
    Acrobat (maybe)
    Life Gamble (maybe)
    Volt Change
    Ice Breath
    Dragon Tail
    Cheer Up (Growth Clone)
    Wild Bolt
    Drill Liner
    Double Chop
    Wood Horn
    Sacred Sword (exclusive to legendary horses(?))
    Shell Blade
    Heat Stamp (exclusive to tepig)
    Grass Mixer (maybe)
    Heart Stamp (Technician)
    Cotton Guard
    Night Burst (exclusive to Zorua/Zoroark)
    Psycho Break (exclusive to Mewtwo)
    Gale
    AFRO BREAK (exclusive to AFRO BULL)
    Gear Saucer (exclusive to Klink line)
    Blaze Judgement (exclusive to Victini)
    Techno Buster (exclusive to Genosect)
    Ancient Song (maybe, exclusive to Meloetta)
    Mystery Sword (exclusive to Kerudio)
    Frozen World (exclusive to Kyuremu)
    Lighting Strike (exclusive to Zekrom)
    Blue Flame (exclusive to Reshiram)
    Fire Dance (exclusive to Ulgamoth)
    Freeze Bolt (nobody has access to this move yet)
    Cold Flare (ditto)
    Icicle Drop (FINALLY MAMO oh wait mamo can’t use it with Superpower FFFFFFFF)
    V-Generate (lol nobody has this thankfully, probably going to be a Victini exclusive)
    Cross Flame (exclusive to Reshiram)
    Cross Thunder (exclusive to Zekrom)

    With Technician:
    Knock Down
    Free Fall
    Ankle Sweep
    Level Ground
    Electra Net
    Bark Out (not released, Zoroark event will have this move)
    Sweep Slap (maybe, is it 2-5 times or 2-5 turns in a row?)
  2. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Wait why are Fire Spin/Clamp/etc. listed as competitive moves now?

    To be quite honest their power is still very poor even after the boost. Unless they now trap opponents even after you switch out? Please tell me if I am missing something, I thought it was only a minor power/accuracy change.

    Also, what is the ruling on moves that are only competitive with certain abilities? It would be good to have this set in stone (Also you should add Heart Stamp for Technician users).

    Also, are these moves going to be listed as competitive (obviously once we have reliable stats) based upon usage, as was the case with 4th gen CAP, or are we going to base this on common sense?

    Lastly, what is the policy on giving exclusive moves to CAPmon? In the 4th Gen, IIRC it was generally the Topic Leader's jurisdiction, which meant that the policy ranged from 'everything goes' to 'everything but legendary exclusives' to 'all exclusives are banned or frowned upon'. It would be nice to have some consistency in this regard for the 5th gen, though ideally this should still give us some room to evaluate on a case-by-case basis.
  3. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    Was Magma Storm previously considered a competitive move? The accuracy has gotten raised from 70 to 75 (woo unreliable to shaky), but the trapping effect duration has gotten increased from 2 to 5 turns to 4 to 5 turns, which makes it a lot more reliable. The initial hit also has the power of Fire Blast...
  4. Plusle

    Plusle

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    Cloyster has Shell Bpade as well:
  5. Fizz

    Fizz

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    Are you sure that Skill Link affects Fire Spin and similar moves? Unless it's changed from 4th Gen, I don't believe this is the case.
  6. tennisace

    tennisace
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    http://www.smogon.com/cap/process/events/movepool_submissions

    This means I forgot Purgatory, with No Guard this becomes a 100/100 attack with a 100% chance of burn (lol.) Heart Stamp is also fair game I guess? I'm kinda thinking of separating out all the Technician moves (that aren't outclassed by non-Technician moves)

    Also I didn't realize it at the time I first read your post but I now realize that those aren't 2-5 attacks per TURN, but rather 2-5 TURN attacks. They're still horrible, my bad.

    In regards to Magma Storm, it was already competitive (it was used effectively in one of Phil's teams and its a p.good set, but its not going to be used in a CAP prolly).

    In regards to Shell Blade, I didn't know Shellder got it. I checked the other two and a bunch of Grass-types get Grass Mixer, but Heat Stamp is Tepig exclusive right now.

    Common sense for now, maybe once we get usage stats we'll evaluate some of the really "holy shit why is this here" moves.

    And finally, TL discretion works well because as you said, it should be evaluated on a case by case basis. Would Kitsunoh have loved something like Dark Void? Sure. Would it be broken? Arguably. However, Heart Swap Krillowatt isn't broken at all. So really it comes down to during the process "does this Pokemon need a really really good move or is it good enough without a move that will be on almost every set".
  7. ungulateman

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    Giga Drain deserves a mention as a more reliable Grass-type move than Grass Knot, as it's been buffed to the same level as Drain Punch.
  8. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Giga Drain is already a competitive move, if you read the link in my last post. (But it was originally on the list until I checked when I was making the list!)
  9. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    I don't think Cold Flare and Freeze Bolt are actually competitive. Putting aside from a moment the fact that 1) they are unreleased and 2) they will probably be exclusive to Kyuremu, the fact they need to charge 1 turn without invulnerability (like Shadow Force) makes them quite unviable in my eyes. Ok, you could use Power Herb, but how many times do you see Sky Attack being used this way, aside from Battle Tower? I could see Freeze Bolt as viable, maybe, if only because it is the only really powerful physical Ice Move, but Cold Flare... I'd rather go with Blizzard, even outside Hail (you have a 91% chance to strike at least once, more than Cold Flare's accuracy, a 49% chance to strike twice, and only a 9% chance to not strike at all).

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