Process Update New and Updated Competitive Moves

[tennisace]

Alright I compiled the list of moves that were changed to be competitively good and all the new competitive moves. For the new competitive moves, I'm unsure on some of their usefulness in reality. In addition, all exclusive moves are marked.

Non-Competitive moves that were sufficiently updated
Reference - http://serebii.net/blackwhite/oldattacks.shtml

Jump Kick - (Raised to 100 BP from 85, lowered to 10 pp from 25)
Thrash - (Same as Outrage now)
Petal Dance - (Same as Outrage now)
Growth - (+1 stage to Atk/SpA)
Bullet Seed - (Raised to 25 bp from 10, only useful with Skill Link/Tech)
Icicle Spear - (Same as Bullet Seed)
Rock Blast - (Same as Bullet Seed, only 90 acc)
Doom Desire - (does neutral damage, raised to 140 bp/100 acc from 120/85, Jirachi signature attack)
Drain Punch - (raised to 75 BP and 10 pp from 60 and 5)

New Competitive moves
Reference - http://serebii.net/blackwhite/attacks.shtml

Hone Claws
Psycho Shock
Body Purge - Agility Clone, halves weight also
Mountain Storm
Sludge Wave
Butterfly Dance
Heavy Bomber
Electra Ball
Nitro Charge
Coil
Trickery (maybe)
Little By Little (maybe)
Clear Smog
Assist Power (maybe)
Boiling Water
Shell Break
Evil Eye (maybe)
Gear Change
Overhead Throw
Acrobat (maybe)
Life Gamble (maybe)
Volt Change
Ice Breath
Dragon Tail
Cheer Up (Growth Clone)
Wild Bolt
Drill Liner
Double Chop
Wood Horn
Sacred Sword (exclusive to legendary horses(?))
Shell Blade
Heat Stamp (exclusive to tepig)
Grass Mixer (maybe)
Heart Stamp (Technician)
Cotton Guard
Night Burst (exclusive to Zorua/Zoroark)
Psycho Break (exclusive to Mewtwo)
Gale
AFRO BREAK (exclusive to AFRO BULL)
Gear Saucer (exclusive to Klink line)
Blaze Judgement (exclusive to Victini)
Techno Buster (exclusive to Genosect)
Ancient Song (maybe, exclusive to Meloetta)
Mystery Sword (exclusive to Kerudio)
Frozen World (exclusive to Kyuremu)
Lighting Strike (exclusive to Zekrom)
Blue Flame (exclusive to Reshiram)
Fire Dance (exclusive to Ulgamoth)
Freeze Bolt (nobody has access to this move yet)
Cold Flare (ditto)
Icicle Drop (FINALLY MAMO oh wait mamo can’t use it with Superpower FFFFFFFF)
V-Generate (lol nobody has this thankfully, probably going to be a Victini exclusive)
Cross Flame (exclusive to Reshiram)
Cross Thunder (exclusive to Zekrom)

With Technician:
Knock Down
Free Fall
Ankle Sweep
Level Ground
Electra Net
Bark Out (not released, Zoroark event will have this move)
Sweep Slap (maybe, is it 2-5 times or 2-5 turns in a row?)

 

[bugmaniacbob]

Wait why are Fire Spin/Clamp/etc. listed as competitive moves now?

To be quite honest their power is still very poor even after the boost. Unless they now trap opponents even after you switch out? Please tell me if I am missing something, I thought it was only a minor power/accuracy change.

Also, what is the ruling on moves that are only competitive with certain abilities? It would be good to have this set in stone (Also you should add Heart Stamp for Technician users).

Also, are these moves going to be listed as competitive (obviously once we have reliable stats) based upon usage, as was the case with 4th gen CAP, or are we going to base this on common sense?

Lastly, what is the policy on giving exclusive moves to CAPmon? In the 4th Gen, IIRC it was generally the Topic Leader's jurisdiction, which meant that the policy ranged from 'everything goes' to 'everything but legendary exclusives' to 'all exclusives are banned or frowned upon'. It would be nice to have some consistency in this regard for the 5th gen, though ideally this should still give us some room to evaluate on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

Was Magma Storm previously considered a competitive move? The accuracy has gotten raised from 70 to 75 (woo unreliable to shaky), but the trapping effect duration has gotten increased from 2 to 5 turns to 4 to 5 turns, which makes it a lot more reliable. The initial hit also has the power of Fire Blast...

 

[Plusle]

Cloyster has Shell Bpade as well:

 

[viol and bass]

Are you sure that Skill Link affects Fire Spin and similar moves? Unless it's changed from 4th Gen, I don't believe this is the case.

 

[tennisace]

Wait why are Fire Spin/Clamp/etc. listed as competitive moves now?

To be quite honest their power is still very poor even after the boost. Unless they now trap opponents even after you switch out? Please tell me if I am missing something, I thought it was only a minor power/accuracy change.

Also, what is the ruling on moves that are only competitive with certain abilities? It would be good to have this set in stone (Also you should add Heart Stamp for Technician users).

http://www.smogon.com/cap/process/events/movepool_submissions

All moves made competitively viable by an ability are considered Very Good Moves

This means I forgot Purgatory, with No Guard this becomes a 100/100 attack with a 100% chance of burn (lol.) Heart Stamp is also fair game I guess? I'm kinda thinking of separating out all the Technician moves (that aren't outclassed by non-Technician moves)

Also I didn't realize it at the time I first read your post but I now realize that those aren't 2-5 attacks per TURN, but rather 2-5 TURN attacks. They're still horrible, my bad.

In regards to Magma Storm, it was already competitive (it was used effectively in one of Phil's teams and its a p.good set, but its not going to be used in a CAP prolly).

In regards to Shell Blade, I didn't know Shellder got it. I checked the other two and a bunch of Grass-types get Grass Mixer, but Heat Stamp is Tepig exclusive right now.

Also, are these moves going to be listed as competitive (obviously once we have reliable stats) based upon usage, as was the case with 4th gen CAP, or are we going to base this on common sense?

Lastly, what is the policy on giving exclusive moves to CAPmon? In the 4th Gen, IIRC it was generally the Topic Leader's jurisdiction, which meant that the policy ranged from 'everything goes' to 'everything but legendary exclusives' to 'all exclusives are banned or frowned upon'. It would be nice to have some consistency in this regard for the 5th gen, though ideally this should still give us some room to evaluate on a case-by-case basis.

Common sense for now, maybe once we get usage stats we'll evaluate some of the really "holy shit why is this here" moves.

And finally, TL discretion works well because as you said, it should be evaluated on a case by case basis. Would Kitsunoh have loved something like Dark Void? Sure. Would it be broken? Arguably. However, Heart Swap Krillowatt isn't broken at all. So really it comes down to during the process "does this Pokemon need a really really good move or is it good enough without a move that will be on almost every set".

 

[ungulateman]

Giga Drain deserves a mention as a more reliable Grass-type move than Grass Knot, as it's been buffed to the same level as Drain Punch.

 

[tennisace]

Giga Drain is already a competitive move, if you read the link in my last post. (But it was originally on the list until I checked when I was making the list!)

 

[zarator]

I don't think Cold Flare and Freeze Bolt are actually competitive. Putting aside from a moment the fact that 1) they are unreleased and 2) they will probably be exclusive to Kyuremu, the fact they need to charge 1 turn without invulnerability (like Shadow Force) makes them quite unviable in my eyes. Ok, you could use Power Herb, but how many times do you see Sky Attack being used this way, aside from Battle Tower? I could see Freeze Bolt as viable, maybe, if only because it is the only really powerful physical Ice Move, but Cold Flare... I'd rather go with Blizzard, even outside Hail (you have a 91% chance to strike at least once, more than Cold Flare's accuracy, a 49% chance to strike twice, and only a 9% chance to not strike at all).