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New Member - RMT

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by tealmedia, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. tealmedia

    tealmedia

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Alright guys, so i'm new here and new to the competitive scene. I've played Blue and Silver but took a long hiatus and recently got Platinum. I'm just looking for a little input on ways to improve my team overall.

    ROLES are in RED
    CHANGES are in BLUE
    UNCERTAINTIES are in ORANGE

    STEALTH ROCK and WALL BREAKER
    *MOVED TO LEAD
    Metagross @ Occa Berry
    Adamant Nature
    w/ Clear Body

    252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe

    Stealth Rock
    Bullet Punch
    Earthquake
    Meteor Mash

    Sets up Stealth Rock, and attempts to do as much damage as possible. Should I have to switch out, it can later be used to follow a Scizor U-Turn by Bullet Punching.

    STAT BOOSTER SPECIAL
    Togekiss @ Leftovers
    Calm Nature
    w/ Serene Grace

    252 HP / 64 SpD / 192 Spe

    Nasty Plot
    Baton Pass
    Air Slash
    Aura Sphere

    Basically the plan is to Nasty Plot and pass to my special sweepers. Due to the fragile nature of my special sweepers, should they be out of commission, due to Aura Sphere, my Togekiss can operate on its own as a sweeper as well.

    SPECIAL SWEEP #1
    *REPLACED TIMID SWEEP ALAKAZAM
    Gengar @ Expert Belt
    Hasty Nature
    w/ Levitate

    100 Atk / 156 SpA / 252 Spe

    Shadow Ball
    Focus Punch
    Hidden Power Fire / Hypnosis / Explosion
    Substitute

    My Primary Special sweeper. Recieve Nasty Plot stat boosts from Togekiss, and sweep away! Timid Nature + Max Speed EVs for maximum speed.

    *OFFENSIVE CHOICE + RAPID SPIN
    Starmie @ Choice Specs
    Timid Nature
    w/ Natural Cure

    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Surf
    Thunderbolt
    Ice Beam
    Trick

    Choice Special Attacker at first, becomes a Sweeper late game if I trick the Choice Specs away. Also helps me disable walls such as Snorlax / Blissey.

    SCOUT and REVENGE
    Scizor @ Life Orb
    Adamant Nature
    w/ Technician

    252 HP / 64 SpD / 192 Spe

    Pursuit
    U-Turn
    Bullet Punch
    Brick Break

    U-Turn allows it to Scout, Brick Break allows it to take down Screens. Bullet Punch allows it to revenge kill as technician + life orb boosts = lots of damage.

    PHYSICAL SWEEP
    Flygon @ Life Orb
    Jolly Nature
    w/ Levitate

    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Earthquake
    Fire Blast
    Dragon Claw
    Roost

    Physical Sweep. Life Orb makes it a better sweeper as it is not locked in.

    Sorry if this team doesn't seem to have much of a theme. It's my first time. Any and all constructive criticism is welcome. I am aware of the fact that I have 2 special sweepers in Alakazam and Starmie and I have been contemplating on taking out one of them (not sure which) but I also would have no idea what to replace it with.

    Thanks in Advance! (Sorry for not having Pictures!)
  2. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    you dont need pictures to post a good rmt, i'm actually glad you didn't cause if you had i'd be annoyed that you'd think that's more important in your "competitive pokemon career" than actually explaining your team's synergy

    but first things first—you will soon find that this team is way too frail to compete in today's metagame. np passing togekiss worked for a little bit two years ago but is less effective now because it will get taunted by what we call "suicide leads"—lead pokemon that have focus sash and taunt and are bent on setting up stealth rock and nothing else. aerodactyl and azelf are the main perpetrators. you'll square off against these or steels like metagross and jirachi who won't let you do anything either, jirachi gladly either going for an ironically better flinch chance than togekiss can boast with choice scarf iron head or tricking that choice scarf onto togekiss, stopping it from passing anything.

    if togekiss is able to pass a boost to one of your sweepers you're going to be disappointed pretty soon there too. you're aware of technician bullet punch enough to take the next step and think of how little scizor cares about alakazam no matter how many boosts it gets—this is the main reason that nobody really uses alakazam anymore, others being general frailty, neutering at the presence of tyranitar and pursuit (without life orb [an unusual item for zam] focus blast rarely kills even a min/min hp/def tyrantiar) and redundancy of its one DP niche—trick scarfing. if you're going to continue using this team you should probably drop zam first, as its defenses are thinner than the paper on which it seems to work at first.

    then with starmie...dont use specs if you're going to use this as a special sweeper. if anything, you can actually use specs, but replace psychic with trick to be a little more threatening. starmie works as a special sweeper or can work mainly because it resists scizor's bullet punch, otherwise it would be in much the same boat as zam as an actual special sweeper.

    the rest of your team actually looks good because they're solid pokemon—it seems you know what scizor can do in dppt and why it is good, and may have stumbled upon why flygon and especially that flygon is good—resistance to stealth rock and roost. but your actual central strategy is what is going to need work...it's good that you actually have one and havent just thrown pokemon together, very good actually because new members usually tend to do that and it's annoying. but kiss will be hard pressed to pass NPs in plat and if you wanna go the route of "frailty" i would suggest a timid life orb lucario with aura sphere/vacuum wave/dragon pulse/hp rock but that's kinda gimmicky on paper and i just made it up and am rambling now and also love lucario "but" +2 vacuum wave deals with heatran which popularly carries a scarf and hp rock deals with gyara and zapdos (heat wave) as well and you'll be able to pass to luke cause it covers kiss's weaknesses and this is where i finally use a period.

    good luck
  3. Aquamentus

    Aquamentus

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    186
    Switch Metagross and Togekiss around; Metagross's Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch beats those suicide leads Jump was talking about, which will make using Baton Pass Togekiss much easier.

    Starmie can't sweep with the limitations of a Choice item, use Trick over Psychic to dispose of it or change to Life Orb/Expert Belt and use Recover over Psychic if it needs to stay alive.

    Alakazam can be replaced by a more stable and bulky Pokemon to hold your team together, or a plot receiver that also beats Blissey/Tyranitar etc. without needing Trick. The Shadow Ball - Hidden Power Fire - Focus Punch - Substitute Gengar on the analysis (can't link it right now, I'm posting this from my DS) or a special attacking Lucario with Close Combat as a surprise should do well at the latter. Gengar will actually be able to OHKO Scizor as well if you play smartly, opening up their team to an unopposed special sweep.

    I like that you don't use Choice Band on Scizor, it prevents Empoleon from setting up on Bullet Punch and Lucario setting up on Pursuit. Using Muscle Band can help you pretend to be choiced (no 10% recoil message), lure in those Pokemon, and Brick Break them for huge damage. You'll lose a bit of power though...

    Good luck!
  4. Bloo

    Bloo
    is a Tutoris a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris Smogon Frontier's Pike Queenis a Past WCoP Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier
    Head TD

    Joined:
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    On Scizor, I suggest using at least some Attack EVs. Scizor has an excellent Attack stat that should not be put to waste. With more Attack EVs, Scizor will be able to hit much harder with U-turn/Bullet Punch/Pursuit/Brick Break, making Scizor a much more effective cleaner late game. You do not really need all of those Speed EVs as Scizor is usually better of being slow rather than fast. For example, with little investement in Speed, Scizor will be able to get a super effective hit on Pokemon such as Skarmory, who will use Roost once low on health. Roost will remove Skarmory's Flying-type, meaning Brick Break will hit Skarmory super effectively. Try a spread of 248 HP / 252 Attack / 8 Speed. You still retain durability with the HP Evs and you gain more power thanks to the investment in Attack EVs.

    As Jump stated, Togekiss is not that effective of a lead due to being stopped by common leads that utilize Taunt such as Aerodactyl and Azelf. You could try shifting the position of Metagross and Togekiss. Basically make Metagross your lead over Togekiss like Aquamentus stated above. Metagross works wonders as a lead due to its ability to take out many common leads being used in the current metagame such as Azelf, Aerodactyl, Infernape, Heatran, etc. Here is a quick analysis of what Metagross can do against some common leads; Against opposing Metagross, you basically use Stealth Rock first turn then hit it hard with Earthquake. Against other leads such as Swampert, just Stealth Rock first turn as it will most likely use Stealth Rock as well then Earthquake if you feel like staying in. Against Infernape, use Earthquake to activate Infernape's Focus Sash and then finish it off with Bullet Punch. You do not have to worry about Fire Blast since you are holding Occa Berry. Other leads such as Azelf and Aerodactyl can be easily finished off with Bullet Punch, however, Azelf will be taken out by at least 3 Bullet Punches while you survive Fire Blast if it attacks you. Against lead Jirachi, Earthquake to take it out.

    On the Lucario Jump suggested, I would use Dark Pulse (if you prefer a chance to flinch your opponent) or Shadow Ball (if you prefer the chance of a Special Defense drop on your opponent) over Dragon Pulse. Hidden Power Rock will already be hitting the Dragon-types Dragon Pulse will be hitting such as Salamence and Dragonite. Dark Pulse gives you the chance to hurt Ghost-types such as Rotom and Pokemon such as Cresselia and Celebi. Dragon Pulse is not needed as much. Think about it. Dragon Pulse was mianly for Latias, Kingdra, and Salamence and Dragonite. Hidden Power Rock takes care of Salamence and Dragonite as stated already. Dark Pulse will handle Latias. While Aura Sphere will be doing plenty of damage to Kingdra, which Dragon Pulse is intended to hit, especially after a Nasty Plot boost from Togekiss.

    You have some options with Starmie. Your a bit LO Gyarados weak. After a DD, Waterfall will kill Scizor who can do little to hurt Scizor. Earthquake will kill Metagross who does little to hurt Gyarados as well. Ice Fang deals with Flygon and Togekiss while Starmie is OHKOed by a +1 LO Earthquake with Stealth Rock in play. One option you have is to make Starmie more defensive with 136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe, Timid, Natural Cure, Leftovers, Rapid Spin, Surf, ThunderBolt, Recover. With Rapid Spin, Starmie can clear Stealth Rock for Togekiss. Recover allows Starmie to heal off any damage taken. ThunderBolt if for Gyarados and other Water-types such as Vaporeon, opposing Starmie, etc. Surf for STAB and to hit Fire-types such as Infernape.

    If you want, you could make Starmie an offensive LO version as well. If you also want to keep Choice Specs, do what Jump and Aquamentus stated. Trick will be more useful as it will allow you to disable walls such as Blissey who love switching-in on Starmie. Psychic has pretty poor coverage in OU so Trick is the better option here.

    If you want Togekiss to have a better chance of passing Nasty Plot, having Dual Screen support is a great way to increase the likelihood of Togekiss passing Nasty Plot. With Reflect and Light Screen boosting Togekiss' Defenses, it will have a much easier time passing. Some Pokemon that can use the Dual Screen strategy include Rotom, who resist th Electric attacks aimed at Togekiss while Togekiss is immune to Ghost attacks aimed at Rotom. Dual Screen support is not necessary, however, it can help you get the pass you want. Just an idea =p This team is not bad considering you just got into Platinum!
  5. tealmedia

    tealmedia

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Thanks for the responses guys, I had a feeling my line up was a little too frail (Alakazam can't take ANYTHING). I've swapped Alakazam for Gengar but i'm still not too sure about the last move slot. I haven't played this metagame at all so i've no idea what really works best.

    I was a little psyched to try the Togekiss Flinch + NP Pass combo with a special sweeper such as Alakazam or Gengar, but if anyone has any suggestions, i'm up for swapping Togekiss out since that is one of the pokemon I have not yet actually trained up.

    More bulk? What pokemon would fill in a much needed niche?

    CURRENT LINE UP

    Metagross
    Togekiss
    Gengar
    Starmie
    Scizor
    Flygon
  6. tealmedia

    tealmedia

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Any other suggestions/tips?
  7. -Broderick-

    -Broderick-

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    94
    A physical ScarfApe absolutely rips through this team. You also have no revenge killer.
    One way to solve this is by choice scarfing Flygon, but giving him Naive nature rather than Jolly. (Jolly lowers Special Attack, therefore lowing the practicality of Fire Blast.) Keep the 252/252 spread you have now. Positive speed natured Scarf Flygon outruns other Flygon, and, it outruns Salamence after a Dragon Dance, allowing you to come in and stop the sweep. By Scarfing Flygon you can now get rid of Roost. Also, replace Dragon Claw for outrage. Without a positive attack nature, it is worth being locked into it for 2 or 3 turns. Also give it U-turn over roost.
  8. Verystrait-42

    Verystrait-42

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
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    Your scizor seems like he is BEGGING for a choice band.

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