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New Metagame Suggestion: Overkill

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Darmanidude, Aug 13, 2013.

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  1. Darmanidude

    Darmanidude

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    An idea I've had for a long time. This gives your a battles a completely different goal. Instead of trying to wipe out your opponents pokemon, you are trying to score as much overkill damage as possible. Overkill damage is the extra amount of damage past someones remaining health. For example, doing 50 damage to a poke with 23 HP gives 27 "points". This means you can still win even when dying first. Changes to strategy this causes:

    1. Hazards do very little overkill damage and are therefore not favorable.
    2. Protect/Detect can keep an opponent from taking massive overkill damage from low HP if poisoned/burned etc.
    3. Moves like Destiny Bond, Perish Song, and OHKO Moves are terrible because they give you 0% overkill
    4. Sturdy and Focus Sashes are not a good idea because they set you up to be slaughtered
    Rules:

    • OU Tier
    • Smogon Bans Apply
    • Regular OU Clauses
    • Overkill Damage Calculated by % (highest of the estimate)
    The Major problem right now is that showdown doesnt calculate damage past 0 HP, making it imposiible to know how much overkill damage you did without a specialized format.

    Suggestions?
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  2. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Self-KO moves (Explosion, SelfDestruct, Healing Wish, etc.) all seem handy in such a meta, as it would be useful to give your mons an easy out that doesn't give your opponent any points. For the points themselves, I imagine raw HP damage itself rather than % would be a clearer way to identify just how overkilled something is.

    If you manage to get an early lead, things like Scarf Explosion Electrode or slower (maybe even level 1 mons?) Sash / Sturdy Exploders (Geodude, Smeargle, etc.) could find niches as ways to prevent the opponent from regaining momentum. The latter can be stopped by multi-hit moves; due to the low BP of most of those and the fact that they stop hitting once the mon is KOed, though, they wouldn't be ideal. Because of that, entry hazards would still be useful for blocking such a strategy. Scarf Electrode seems useful on any team with the lead, which makes Ghost-types especially handy for blocking fast Explosions.

    While OHKO moves would be banned by Smogon OU bans in general, and D-Bond seems useless, I could see Perish Song finding a niche. Set it up, start knocking out mons, then time out on yourself so you don't give your opponent points. Probably more difficult in practice, but if there's a use, there's a way~

    Protecting while burned / poisoned could save you some points. What's also nifty is running Flame Orb on a SubTect set to stall out attacks and wittle away your own health. Can't be blocked by Ghosts like Explosion, and it's harder to stop without Taunt.

    Essentially, I see managing both how quickly you can dish out damage to the opponent combined with how quickly you can off your own team without getting directly KOed to be a main focal point for success here. Definitely an interesting spin~
  3. Darmanidude

    Darmanidude

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    -Self-KO moves might need to be banned so there not spammed on scarfed pokemon. The other option is to just leave it for people to figure out. Both of which are entirely possible.
    -HP or % really isnt set in stone. HP is probably the better choice though.

    Im considering deciding ties by the # of pokes left (more wins) like regular battles. I can't see any other way.
  4. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Didn't realize this was in Suggestion Box before. Woops >.>

    Moved to OM, where these kinds of metas can be discussed more fully.

    I'd say keep suicide mons, btw. Adds an extra element of risk vs reward to the game and also makes it stand out more. Shouldn't be too many ties if you go with straight HP overkill points. Probably best to just call a tie a tie at that point, though~
  5. Volty

    Volty

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    This sounds like alot of fun actually, but I do agree Self ko moves would be broken here as they are free points basicly. We will be seeing alot of choice band / specs and stuff like that tho. I can also see super effective reducing berries being pretty useful.
  6. Goutland

    Goutland

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    This sounds like a neat idea. Imagine how much overkill you could get with a cleaner like scarf moxie Mence with support from hazards + phazing. Recoil moves and life orb will definitely be great for killing yourself off before your opponent can. Maybe sub + life orb sets could be used too. Not too sure about self KO moves though; they could be broken, but maybe not.

    I like the idea of still being able to win if you lose the battle, but end up with more overkill.
  7. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I'm John Morgan of Morgan and Morgan
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    For once I'm okay with a thread getting moved to OM from another area of the site (I read this thread while it was in the suggestion box), but my only concern is whether or not it's doable. @Joim, any ideas?
  8. Joim

    Joim All promises become a lie, all that's bening corrups in time
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    At first sight I think this is doable, I have to re-check, but iirc overkill damage it's saved and thus I can store it on the battle (like the stuff I do on seasonals). The only problem is that there's no way currently to overwrite the win function.
  9. bobbyvaporeon

    bobbyvaporeon

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    As was the problem in Suicide Cup, you can't change the win condition currently.
    Overall this seems like a fun idea, stall will be nonexistent as you don't just want to whittle away health.
  10. Celever

    Celever

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    Actually whittling away the opponent's health would be good so you can then hit them with a massive strong attack with a bunch of overkill.
  11. Djqubi

    Djqubi

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    Can this be the only Metagame where False Swipe is useful? :eek:
    Ellipse, AWailOfATail, Adonzo and 4 others like this.
  12. cxinlee

    cxinlee

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    Wouldn't endure+ toxic orb be a little broken?
  13. Manitary

    Manitary

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    I think you're all focused too much in self-killing strategies
  14. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    Well killing yourself usually gives few "Overkill" while if you let your opponent KO you it will probably give way more "Overkill"
    Anyways, I expect this to be Bulky Offense, so that you lose few HP but can dish out much, also Pokemon like Shuckle are better as not so much HP from Shuckle is gone any attack, but it has low HP total, so it faints faster than you'd hope, but now if it faints, it loses few HP for the opponents "Overkill", as it has very high defenses
  15. Djqubi

    Djqubi

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    And now, Custap Exlosion is now popular. Snorlax would be good for this.
  16. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Belly Drum Flare Blitz Sheer Force Life Orb Darmanitan in sun now has a use!

    I'd imagine you'd want set up bruisers hiding behind dual screens to set up efficiently and cut overkill damage done by the opponent drastically.
  17. Darmanidude

    Darmanidude

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    A year later now. There been any progress on this? I still think this would really fun.
  18. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Finish him!
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    Please resubmit this here.
    AWailOfATail likes this.
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