Gen 3 New NB Team RMT (Also breeding for Link Up Team)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Ceielo, Dec 1, 2007.

  1. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    [Sleep Clause] [Freeze Clause] [No Ubers] [Self-KO Clause] [

    Here's my current team:

    Starter:

    Steelix @ Leftovers
    Sturdy
    Careful Nature ( Sp.D / Sp.A )
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Sp.Def
    ~Rock Slide / Iron Tail
    ~Earthquake
    ~Toxic
    ~Roar


    Mainly to Roar away Stat-uppers and this guy lol's at Ninjask. Can also Toxic/Protect or Toxic/shuffle. I prefer Protect over Earthquake right now, as I could stall with Toxic on things that don't render it useless. Toxic also sets up for my favorite from the group: Sceptile. Currently thinking of Iron Tail.

    Alakazam @ Leftovers
    Synchronize
    Timid ( Speed / Att )
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.A / 252 Speed
    ~Psychic
    ~Substitute
    ~Ice Punch
    ~Calm Mind


    This guy is mainly for Mid-Game sweeping. HP Grass to get those Swamperts, Omastars and the likes. Thunder Wave can really mess things up, and I am currently preferring it to Psychic.

    Sceptile @ Shell Bell
    Overgrow
    Timid Nature ( Speed / Attack )
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 Sp.Att (or Sp.Def) / 252 Speed
    3 HP IV.
    ~Substitute
    ~Endeavor
    ~Leaf Blade
    ~Thunderpunch


    3HP IV makes me need only 63 HP to make a sub, instead of 70. Shell Bell is /12?
    I am thinking of re-breeding so I can get 252 Sp.Def instead of Sp.Att. Overgrow makes Sceptile able to KO things very easily. Also, with Burn/Toxic, I won't need to Thunderpunch some things. They can just KO as soon as Endeavor hits. I have KOed 3 things in one battle due to Endeavor + Status. Also End/Leaf Blade KOed a Blissey 3 out of 4 times. With the Sp. Def EVs, I could easily withstand Thunderbolt/punches, and Blissey Ice Beams(proven), and I don't want any HP EVs, so I just leave the 4 on Def. I want the lowest HP I could have with Sceptile to be able to Shell Bell enough to Sub once more. I also thought of adding Quick Attack over Thunderpunch to be able to quickly get rid of End/Revs that I didn't hit with Status.


    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Levitate
    Timid Nature ( Speed / Att)
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Att / 252 Speed
    ~Substitute
    ~Will-o-Wisp
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Psychic


    Mainly my Will-o-Wisp-er. Also Thunderbolt has been pretty effective against Cloysters/Dodrios and the like. I have Psychic here because I HATE fighting those retarded Weezing. Sometimes, it's just fun to mess with the opponents when they are going to Earthquake or use a Normal/Fighting type attack. With 130 Sp.Att, I am not going to Sub/Punch. Even for those Blisseys. I have a Sceptile for that.

    Dodrio @ Lum Berry
    Early Bird
    Jolly Nature ( Speed / Sp.Att)
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Speed
    ~Drill Peck
    ~Return
    ~HP Rock
    ~Quick Attack


    My main End/Rev killer. lols @ Heracross / Medicham. HP Rock OHKOed Charizard and hurts enemy flying types. Even without the Char already being in pain, it OHKOed it... twice. Now imagine that on a Belly Drummer lol.
    If anything gets hit with my Sceptile's End, and survives, and I know they are going to Earthquake, then BAM, they miss. QA and they're gone. STAB Return also hurts a lot of things for neutral that the rest of my Pokemon doesn't. Very helpful to the team for when the need arises.

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Water Absorb
    Calm Nature ( Sp.Def / Att )
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.Def
    ~Surf
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Toxic
    ~Wish

    The Wisher and Staller. Helps with my Sceptile and Steelix. Can easily wall things that are Poisoned / Burned. Just gotta make sure Heal Bellers are out of the way. Also trying to run into Weezing / Gengar for being burned. Better burned than Toxiced.
    Helps Pass Defense with BP or stalls with Sub. With BP, I can help my team-mates survive better, and with Sub, I can stall out things that have Status from Steelix/Gengar.
    Surf / Ice Beam is based on the rest of my team. If Salamence and the likes show up, I want to be able to OHKO it.
    I am currently favoring: Surf / Acid Armor / Sub / Wish

    I still need a good EV Distribution / Nature for my Steelix and Vaporeon. I have been about 80% win-rate with this team in NB. Steelix lols at Ninjask. lol.
  2. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    This team is easily out stalled by most standard teams. The key to breaking that though is with Sceptile. With Endeavor, you can rip through a Special Wall, then proceed to sweep with CM Alakazam. A good note to add is that once Sceptile has taken out that special wall, There's very little that can resist a Surf/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt Starmie, so I'd consider using that over Vaporeon. If that plan fails, you're literally doing nothing to good opposition. Dodrio is still walled by Skarmory, and Celebi can still switch in on Gengar. Steelix is barely even a threat as it is right now, since most teams can shake off a Toxic from Steelix, and you have no Spikes setup to go with Roar. Zapdos is also a bitch here, as switching in Steelix every time to take the Thunderbolt gets predictable and switching Sceptile in on a Thunderbolt is just asking for trouble.
  3. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    The main reason I have Vaporeon / Steelix is to be able to take hits. I hated having Salamence / Dugtrio since they got OHKOed easily.

    I found that out last night during my test battles. The only thing I ever used Protect for previously was either for Wish or to see what the opponent was going to do.

    Blissey and Snorlax = Burn + Endeavor. I am not keeping Zam in with either of those two in the field.
    Regice = Toxic Stall (switching to Vaporeon) + Switch to Gengar(Explosion lol) or Endeavor + Thunderpunch when it goes to sleep.
    More than half the time, Tyranitars have used Dragon Dance while Alakazam was in play, hoping for a Switch. Paralyze + HP Grass. When I find out what he's doing. I can switch to a counter. I know HP Grass won't do much, but when they think Zam is staying in and being sacrificed or waiting for Petaya(Sub), they will keep attacking. Happened twice already with Tyranitar users.

    Leaf Blade already gets 1.5x Power from Overgrow. Also I don't really need to hit stuff to KO them since most of the time I will have status on them. When I hit with Endeavor, and the Status hurts them, it's an instant KO. Also when I changed my IV of HP to 2, I needed only 63 or 64 HP left to make a Sub. After I hit Blissey with an Endeavor after it hit me with a Seismic Toss, I had 38 HP left. Every single time. Endeavor and I have 98 HP. Enough for two more Subs, and with no EVs in Sp.Att, I hit it with Leaf Blade, and it's an instant KO since most of the time it tried to use Softboiled or switch. If it stays in and tries to Softboiled, it's a guaranteed KO with Leaf Blade. Switches, then I get to hit the next Poke hard with Leaf Blade too.

    The burn is mainly for the Steels that I have trouble with. Also I know a lot of fighters have Guts. Those are the ones I don't burn. I Paralyze them so I can nullify their Salac or other speed boosts. Without their speed, they are easy pickings.
    Psychic OHKOs Weezings with no EVs in HP or Sp.Def, but even with full EVs in both, it's still a 2HKO. Enough to KO it as soon as it kills the Sub and tries to attack again. Also with Psychic, I can hurt enemy Gengars tons more than with anything else that I know of currently. If an enemy Gengar is the same as me, and it has 4 HP and no EV in either defenses, it's a possible OHKO, which would do great if he used Will o Wisp on my Gengar, which means easy 2HKO without being hurt(except by burn). I have battled enemy Gengars a few times and more times, I already had a Sub and they had to break it and then hit, which would give me the advantage, unless they are faster lol.

    I don't want CB on this guy because I don't want to have to sacrifice a Poke just to be able to kill the End/Rev. I had CB once but it just made Heracross and Medicham beat me up. I get Burned / Toxic a lot when using Dodrio, and it happened a lot more than with any other Poke. I am going to keep it with Lum Berry.

    Yeah, I found that out about Acid Armor, so I changed it to Ice Beam already. The only reason I used it was for an even more unbreakable sub, which was kind of a bust against those Roar / Haze. The only good thing about it when the opponent switched and I used it, but after they found out I had no Ice Beam, Salamence was able to beat me up. I am adding Toxic over Sub, since it's HP is high anyways. Also it's too slow to stop Seed and Status. So now it's my second Toxic Poke.

    Fixing the team now.

    Right now though, I want to know: Is my team weak to a common threat? I just had a hard time with Celebi. I fucking hate when people use Legendaries anyway.
  4. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Steelix takes hits. Vaporeon doesn't in general. It'll take whatever it resists, and you can punch it in on Dragons who run in fear of Ice Beam, but even though Vappy has good SDef, it doesn't have anywhere near the kind of walling prowess that Regice or Blissey have, and its weak to two special type moves to boot. Salamence, on the other hand, is made to take hits from Heracross, which is one of the main huge threats to any team. Plus it has some pretty nice resistances as well. It's stats are pretty solid, so its not exactly easy to KO unless you have Ice beam or a STABed/CBed Rock Slide.

    You should know enough about standard movesets to get a general feel of what someone will do, in any case.

    I was really referring to the fact that on the turn Zam uses Thunder Wave, Blissey and etc. are switching in.

    Regice is Thunderbolting away at Vaporeon doing about 40% ish, which leaves no room for a sub once you get that Wish off, though I see where you're going.

    Paralyzing then HP Grassing is just relying off of luck, as that same TTar will OHKO you next turn. Not to mention, if you do switch out, someone's going to get hit pretty hard, unless you predict correctly and bring Steelix in on the Rock Slide. There's also the fact that DDTar is seeing less use than its other moves sets, mainly VILtar, which doesn't really care about paralysis behind a sub.

    You don't want to have to rely on Overgrow every time, because your opponent finds why you are subbing so much, and brings Tyranitar in on your last sub and kills you with Sand Stream. Even if it doesn't, just Sand Stream in play messes with your HP calculations because you have no Leftovers. You also have the common Spikes and Roar to deal with (Skarmory will gladly take at least one Thunderpunch to the face, which is another reason you don't want to lose your SAtk for SDef) which also plays a huge factor.


    There's a high chance you aren't paralyzing anything with Alakazam, because Alakazam switches in on neither Machamp or Heracross and vice versa, both who more commonly run CB than Salac, which means paralysis is still good for them. And in the rare chance you run into Swellow, Swellow is naturally faster.

    Weezing doesn't take out a Gengar sub without a couple of turns anyway. If it does happen to run Fire Blast or Thunderbolt, chances are it doesn't have Will-O-Wisp, in which case he's not much of a problem. Not like Gengar really cares about burn when it's not using physical attacks.

    If an opponent is really switching Gengar in on your Gengar as a normal strategy, that's really saying alot about the type of people you're playing, which probably isn't really saying much. Thunderbolt from Gengar 2HKOs Gengar. You're more worried about the Salamence that is a high threat to your team, especially with Dragon Dance. A OHKO from Ice Punch is more reliable than trying to inflict a 75% chance of burn that probably has a cleric backing it up.

    Use a cleric or Sleep Talker. It's not a great idea to hinder one's effectiveness (In Dodrio's case, it stops being a real threat in general) just because it has a problem that is easily solved by having a certain other member on the same team.


    Salamence. Mainly the Dragon Dance version. CBHeracross. Starmie, especially the dumb ones that run Surf/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt on the same set. Agiligross. Calm Mind Alakazam. Houndoom. A couple of other random things I can't think off.

    Btw, there's nothing wrong with Legendaries in OU. The only real issue is ubers.
  5. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    I am thinking of replacing Vaporeon with Umbreon, who has 110 Def / 130 Sp. Def. I am going to use, if I do use it:

    Umbreon @ Leftovers
    Synchronize
    Nature?
    ~Mean Look
    ~Baton Pass
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Wish

    I choose this guy mainly because of Mean Look + BP, so I can trap stuff and beat them up with the appropriate Poke.
  6. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Taunt over Shadow Ball. If you do use Umbreon over Vaporeon, all that means is you'll be at risk of trap-passing a Dragon Dancing Salamence, in which case you have nothing to stop it, save Steelix which has to take a 60%+ Earthquake to Roar it out. Then when Umbreon is out, Salamence will strike again. This is the kind of case where you look at both typing and stats, but put an emphasis on typing.
  7. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    Is Destiny Bond, or whatever that move is, when a Gengar uses it, to make the opponent faint with it, is that move a Priority move like Focus Punch(low priority) and Quick Attack (High Priority so goes first)? Or does it still go only as fast as the Gengar is?

    Like if I am facing a super Salamence that Dragon Danced 6 times, and it's the fastest thing ever, if I use Destiny Bond (or whatever it's called), will I go first and be able to take it down with me? If so, I am using that over anything, so I can take down Jaskwaks and DDers. Also Blisseys, which are completely retarded.
  8. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Destiny Bond is based on your speed stat. Aka, Aerodactyl Rock Slides you before you can use it.
  9. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    I am now thinking of adding Kingdra into my team instead of Umbreon. Also could add Thunder to Gengar when it's raining. That way, I get 2x Speed from Rain, help with Thunder, and able to take Ice / Water hits. Here it is:

    Kingdra @ Leftovers
    Swift Swim
    Modest Nature (Sp.Att / Att)
    ~Rain Dance
    ~Surf
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Hidden Power Electric / Dragonbreath / Substitute

    I don't know all of it's moves yet, didn't check. I will when I'm not so sleepy and can think straight.

    HP Electric will give it Bolt Beam and something to hit enemy Waters with. Unless Dragonbreath hits harder... And has Paralyze effect. Either those or Sub so I can block Status. I don't have a Heal Bell / Aromatherapy.

    With Rain Dance and STAB Surf, this guy can hurt a lot of things, including Tyranitars, and will be faster than Salamence. Even with a Dragon Dance AND Speed Nature. That means I have 5 turns to KO that piece of trash.

    Also Surf = 95*STAB*Rain which is 213.75. I don't know if it's Math.Floor or Ceiling, but either way, it's going to hurt.


    About Choice Band Dodrio:
    If I have Choice Band on him, and he's put to sleep:
    If I use Sleep Talk, will Return do 102 * 1.5 * 1.5?

    And what's a VILTar? And what's a usual EV Spread for Tyranitars? I am thinking of using one in my In Game Team for a SS Team.
  10. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    CB Dodrio with Sleep Talk doesn't have increased power. That's only for Guts abusers, a trait Dodrio doesn't have.

    VIL Tar is Sub/Focus Punch/Rock Slide/HP Bug aka physical Boah. EV spreads vary from set to set, but any set with sub usually has max HP.
  11. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    I need EVs that are good for a rainy Kingdra. Would this be good?

    Modest Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Att / 4 Speed

    Don't need too much Speed since with Swift Swim, it will have Base 190 Speed, which nothing can outrun it. So I don't need a whole bunch of Speed. Also with 252 HP, it will be able to take quite a bit of hits. With it's dual type, it can take more hits than regular Waters. I am going to breed for this Poke soon. I have a 31 IV Modest Ditto that I can get this with, and get good IV in HP and Sp.A and others.

    Also I still need EVs for Steelix, so is the one I am using good? I was able to take Surf a few times with Careful Nature. Also those Magnetons couldn't do anything with HP Fire lol. OHKO vs 1/4 damage. I am loving having Sp.Def Nature + 116 Sp.Def EVs. Probably will switch the EVs to 140 Sp.D and 116 Def, but with 140, I could take a few Earthquakes from Metagross and Salamence. Also beat Tyranitar 1 on 1 when it didn't Sub.

    OH YEAH! I forgot to mention:
    With Rain Dance, my Sceptile will NOT be whittled away to nothing during SS pain. Also with Kingdra and Steelix, I can beat up on those TTars and with Rain, I can outrun those jerkass Ninjask and Ice Beam them to hell. With Rain, Flamethrower can't kill my Sceptile easily, unless it's STAB I think, I will have to check.

    Here is the current team now:

  12. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    To "not be outrun by anything" Kingdra would have to be at 198 base speed to outrun Aero/Jolteon/Crobat and base 209 to outrun Electrode, the latter of which no one cares about. There's also Ninjask to factor into the picture, but no one cares about him either when considering Rain Dance/Sunny Day speed. I don't see too many problems, just make sure you can Endeavor off that special wall. What you might want is to be able to lay down Spikes with Skarmory so Snorlax and etc. can't switch out after they've killed your Sceptile. Dodrio doesn't have to worry about Snorlax running away and possibly recovering slowly later on then. The only problem there would be dealing with STABed Rock Types, in which case you could consider running a counter variant. You can also use Forretress in that spot, which would also add a good rapid spinner to the game, but then you lose a good phazing move. It's completely up to how you like to play.
  13. touched

    touched

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    McIceGar needs loads more attack with a Hasty/Naive nature. It also needs at least a 200 Atk stat. I think it needs ~220 Atk to 2HKO 252/252 Bliss but I don't remember, haven't used McIceGar in a while. Alternatively you can cut down on speed and make it Lonely/Naughty.
  14. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    I realized that I couldn't predict a switch to save my life, so I changed Gengar to:

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Levitate - Timid Nature (Speed / Att)
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Ice Punch
    ~
    ~Substitute

    I didn't realize he was a McIceGar. He took a knife and slit TNA's throats when he showed up with Psych Up against a Suicune lol. That was funny. Double Battle + Psych Up + Roar = Awesome Gengar that won me the game (with the help of Dodrio).

    I am not going to keep Psych Up. I need a move for the 4th slot. I am thinking either Thief or Fire Punch.

    With Thief, I can screw over Pokes, such as Blisseys and Snorlax, who usually switch in on my Gengars. Also those that use Berries to speed up or power up.

    On the other hand, Fire Punch can really mess up those Steels and Bugs (and dual types). Especially those jerkass Forretress that love messing up my team with their stupid little Spikes and such. They also switched in on my Gengar a few times.

    I am also considering Giga Drain, just because I love that move. I love what it does to Swampert, who the rest of my team, except Sceptile (SWITCH AWAY), has a problem with. They don't generally stay in on Sceptile. So with Gengar, I can hurt it badly and scare it away, if not KO it. AND get some health back.

    Salamence LOVES to switch in on Sceptile, so I changed Thunderpunch to HP ICE to take it on 1v1. I freakin' hate Salamence, so I am taking Synch's advice on 252 Sp.A.

    I like Ice attacks, now that I killed 3 Pokes just because my Gengar had Ice Punch. That was a very nice touch to an already cool Poke.


    For my Alakazam, I am starting to like this:

    Alakazam @ Salac Berry
    Synchronize - Modest Nature (Sp.A / Att)
    ~Psychic
    ~Ice Punch
    ~Fire Punch
    ~Endure

    Fire Punch is for those Steels and Bugs, like Scizor, Skarm and others. Forretress too.
    Endure Salac is for those idiot Salamence that will 100% of the time just try to KO my Alakazam. So wrong they are.
    Ice Punch is for the Revenge Kill of sorts on DDMence.
    Psychic is for STAB and the things that don't resist it just get hurt, unless they're the sponges.

    It's not the smartest Zam, but it's seen some good use a few times. Perfect for me right now. Tyranitar has to be absent, and I need to have gotten a Rain Dance after it's been taken out of the picture, but when it's gone, I can Endure to Salac those Speed Boosted jerks.

    Also going to try see if I can make a Physical Sweeper version of Sceptile. It learns Swords Dance and can take quite a few hits. So it's perfect to me. 120 Base Speed, 132 with Jolly, but I am gon try get it to be Naughty Natured or something to boost it's small Att. Blissey gets hurt by Swords Danced Brick Break, and that thing is more common than mosquitoes that carry Malaria.


    I am testing this one out:

    Sceptile @ Leftovers
    ~Swords Dance
    ~Brick Break
    ~Hidden Power [Rock]
    ~Roar

    Roar makes people switch, giving me some time to use Swords Dance. Also help break up BP Chains and just a general lol. I would use Salac berry, but I want to be able to take on Spikes / SS more with this guy. Going to go for at least two Swords Dances, and with Jolly / Max Speed EVs, not a lot of things will outrun this guy. I just tested it and it OHKOed a Blissey with 2 SDs.

    I don't have a lot of Physical Pokemon, since I grew up with Special Attackers. I am probably going back to Endeavor on Sceptile later, but for now, I am going to check what can kill Blisseys/Tyranitars/Snorlaxes. I don't have set Pokes to deal with them, but I changed Dodrio to HP Fighting to take on weakened Tyranitars.

    Sorry that I'm changing the Pokes around a lot here. Just trying to see what Pokes I can use to take on a lot of standards.
  15. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Alakazam is a base 120 Speeder. It doesn't need Salac Berry. At all. If anything give it Lum or Petaya Berry (preferably the former) and Calm Mind over endure.

    That sceptile will not work. Roaring doesn't give you time to Swords Dance if the opponent is still hitting you or if they still switch to a counter. Blissey will be Ice Beaming you as you get that second SD in, and by that time, the switch will have been made to a physical wall. That set is completely ruined by Claydol and just standard sets in general (even an SD'd Brick Break from an EV'd Sceptile doesn't do any relative damage to most things). You'd be better off running a standard Sceptile.
  16. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    I have been swept by DD Salamences a few times, and I couldn't do anything to it anymore since it outran everything I had. I used End/Salac Ice Punch to end it's life after losing one of my Pokes to it. That version of Zam is my only defense against it, since more times than not, my Steelix can't take an Earthquake from the Salamence because it's already hurt enough to get OHKOed by it.

    Also that Sceptile did, in fact, suck. Primeape did a lot better with Overheat than that Sceptile as a Physical. Like I said though, I am back to using Endeavor, since that helps me so much against nearly 90% of the Walls.
  17. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    What you want to do is trade Kingdra for a more defensive water type, like Swampert or Milotic. These are commonly there to switch in on Salamence and either:

    a) Take a non-CBed hit for minimal damage
    b) Take a CBed hit for moderate damage, in which case you can still predict and switch to a resist
    c) Switch in on the Dragon Dance

    Then Ice Beam it to hell.
  18. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    Milotic can take DDed hits?? Dammit, I should have kept it in my team. I am gon check it since I love Milotic. I will try out Swampert too. I love not being hurt by electricity.

    What's the most damage Ludicolos can take from Salamence? I was considering trying that thing out too. I am going to try them all out to see how good they work with the team. I need something that is Special Defensive, like Milo or Ludi. Swampert though would be perfect for the Salamences.

    Can a Heracross outrun an Alakazam that is Timid after a Salac?
  19. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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  20. Ceielo

    Ceielo

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    Ok, Thanks man. You have been such a huge help. I have learned more the past few weeks than I ever did the 7 years I've been playing Pokemon.

    Here is the revised team and I still need EVs suggestions on a few:

    I don't want Curse on Swampert, since I just want to get in, kick ass, move on.
    Quake for obvious reasons, and HP Rock for the Charizards and Gyarados.
    Focus Punch gets things switching or using Status moves. Also a great addition since Fighting Type moves will hurt a TON of things. Umbreon being one of them, as they just generally piss me off.
    Ice Beam for the Dragons and low Sp.Def Ground Types. Dugtrio, I'm looking at you.


    I might change it to Milotic, as I am lacking a Sp. Defensive Poke. I want this on the team currently due to it's Sandstorm immunity.

    Will edit in a bit.
  21. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Steelix: For cutting down most Hidden Power damages and a few select unSTABed Fire Blasts and etc, you don't need a Careful Nature. Go with Adamant or Impish.

    Alakazam: Consider Fire Punch/Thunderpunch/Both over Substitute and/or Ice Punch.

    Sceptile: Since you have 2+ two Ice Moves elsewhere on your team, it might be safe to run HP Fire instead of HP Ice. This is especially helpful for Skarmory switch-ins. I also suppose you meant 30 HP IVs and not 3.

    Gengar: If you're running Substitute, you can use Focus Punch, you know. Otherwise, that set is fine, though you can sub down to salac so as to outrun things like Starmie and Sceptile and follow-up with D.Bond.

    Swampert: Can't say a similar effect hasn't been done successfully before, but go with HP Bug at least, to hit Celebi harder. Ice Beam takes care of most other flying things.

    I suggest leading off with either Gengar or Swampert.

    Sceptile can setup pretty well for Zam and Gar, but I would probably use Explosion over Destiny Bond so I don't have to rely on Celebi to Psychic when it might Leech expecting a switch. Swampert is normally a counter to Salamence, yes, but most Swamperts can use Rest or Protect to recover their HP. Your set is fine, however, it's all about how you move Swampert around with Spikes on the field. Otherwise, you might have to resort to Steelix eating an EQ then Exploding on it.
  22. touched

    touched

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    Messages:
    240
    actually, sceptile with a low HP IV can sometimes be beneficial, since it takes less HP to sub and you get a higher percentage of HP back from leech seed to sub again. It results in you taking surf/EQ/tbolt a bit harder, but it's all up to the user.
  23. Ceielo

    Ceielo

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    124
    Sceptile: If I have 31 HP IV so I need 70.25 HP to sub again, and the enemy has about 70 HP when I End them after 3 Subs.

    With 3 HP IV, I 64 HP after 3 Subs, and can Sub 4 times to get 1HP left. This means I need only 64 HP to make a new sub, and a few Blisseys didn't even get me to 70 HP, which is what I needed to make a new Sub. Which is why I want 3 IV on HP.

    Steelix: I generally get Quaked more than Fire / Water Attacked, so I am going to change it to Adamant Nature since I want a bit more hurt on those damn Aerodactyls. Also to make Quake hurt Metagross more.

    Alakazam: I generally can't CM fast enough to not get completely owned, but it has worked a few times. Sub makes me hurt less and I am actually thinking of putting all 3 Punches into Zam.

    Gengar: Sub and Salac are there for:
    1: Less pain(have to hit Sub)
    2: Use Salac so I can hit fast Pokes with Destiny Bond.
    Bond makes things die, like those retarded Jirachi/Celebi and can take out the most problematic enemy Poke.

    Swampert: I would guess that a Celebi could KO a Swampert before it could do any real damage, and if it survived, it could just take back it's lost HP with Recover. I generally don't use Legends in my team since they just make it easier.

    That team I posted was a quick draft since I was trying to get it all done real fast. I am going to edit the first post with the new, fixed team.

    Also for the Sceptile, like Touched said, it makes it a little bit harder to take hits, but generally Sceptile can Sub still since it has less HP to turn up a Sub. Also with Endeavor, while they switch, it's freakin' perfect. A lot of times, I hit Endeavor as Snorlax / Blissey are switching in.

    I once had Sub / End / Leaf Blade / Quake on it and it was KOing every Blissey with Quake after even half HP Endeavor, which made the thing use Seismic Toss / Ice Beam but giving me enough HP to survive. That IMO was hilarious. Still I prefer HP Ice since in 4 battles with people that had Salamences, they switched in on my Sceptile.

    That puts Alakazam out of Ice Punch territory, so I think I will put in Fire Punch over it, since I still hate those freakin' Steel Bug bastards. Also puts a hurt on things like, Jirachi and Celebi.

    I am revising my team after I post this.. and it's going to be the team at the first post, which will make it easier to find.
  24. z0MG

    z0MG

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    Messages:
    198
    Impish on Steelix.
    Also, you fail at this.
  25. touched

    touched

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    Messages:
    240
    Ceielo, you should just make a new thread to avoid confusion.
    z0MG, you should shut up.

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