Why does Umbreon have to be good to be OU? There are a lot of OUs that I would never consider using.
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New OU List (May 2010)
- Thread starter RBG
- Start date
Umbreon stands on my team for one reason, Curse / Wish abuse. with a couple curses pilled up U-turn doesn't do anything. Taunt is an issue but he's late game fodder anyways.
if everyone's only sound reasoning for umbreon being bad is scizor, why arn't good players using it as a pivot switch oppurtunity? since in every match umbreon is played obviously scizor switches in to u-turn*cough*theory*cough*, wouldnt umbreon-switch in gdos-ddance be an excellent play? sounds like a free switch in and ddance everytime to me~
I am still expecting Electrivire to be BL....
The main reason Umbreon has been bumped up is b/c it's usage is rising. I have been seeing him a lot on Shoddy over the past few weeks.....
I was beginning to think a bait Umbreon to take out specific threats (by "take out", I mean have the enemy draw to play and give you a better idea of their team).....As I said, HP Fire would be funny against Scizor and Forretress.
The main reason Umbreon has been bumped up is b/c it's usage is rising. I have been seeing him a lot on Shoddy over the past few weeks.....
I was beginning to think a bait Umbreon to take out specific threats (by "take out", I mean have the enemy draw to play and give you a better idea of their team).....As I said, HP Fire would be funny against Scizor and Forretress.
Electivire is used way too much to go down to BL.
Asfor umbreon...mmm I never really saw umbreon too much.
It's OK but that's about it imo and semi-outclassed in most of its "sets"
It's one of my favorite mons though :(
I really don't see how anyone is still using Electivire. It was useful to me back when I played Wi-Fi in the beginning days of D/P. I haven't used it at all since then, but I have raped many a team using it as some sort of pivot sweeper from Gyarados. I guess it was good back when people thought SkarmBliss was as dominant in D/P as it was in R/S.
However, I think the Ninjask hate is a little unfounded. Ninjask is not a great Poke, but he has always served me well as a Liechi Berry backup passer on Baton Pass teams. He probably deserves to be BL, but on aggressive Baton Pass teams he is actually a good poke.
However, I think the Ninjask hate is a little unfounded. Ninjask is not a great Poke, but he has always served me well as a Liechi Berry backup passer on Baton Pass teams. He probably deserves to be BL, but on aggressive Baton Pass teams he is actually a good poke.
You guys are talking about BL as if it were a playable tier, it not. Speaking of BL, seeing it with eleven Pokemon in there makes me sad - I think it's getting a bit too big.
On the subject of Umbreon: he's not a bad Pokemon. Scizor becomes a non-issue with Yawn + Protect. Scizor switches in on the Yawn, Protect on the U-turn - Scizor is now asleep and becomes set up fodder. He can also pass Wish around or use it in tandem with Protect for reliable recovery. The last slot could be Toxic if you want to be a prick or Payback to not get buttraped by any Taunt user.
On the subject of Umbreon: he's not a bad Pokemon. Scizor becomes a non-issue with Yawn + Protect. Scizor switches in on the Yawn, Protect on the U-turn - Scizor is now asleep and becomes set up fodder. He can also pass Wish around or use it in tandem with Protect for reliable recovery. The last slot could be Toxic if you want to be a prick or Payback to not get buttraped by any Taunt user.
I love how people are using the "Scizor switches in on Yawn and Protect on U-Turn". It sounds so situational. Most of the time Scizor would in on one of Umbreon's other moves, be it Protect, Wish or Payback, and then its ready to just U-Turn and laugh at you. Also, after it's been used a few times, people would just get the jist and just switch Scizor out on the Protect knowing it's going to go to sleep if it tries to U-Turn. So Umbreon Protects, thinking Scizor will go to sleep, instead your opponent is not an idiot and just goes to something like SD Luke, DD Tauntrados (Payback is going to do absolutely jack shit after Intimidate), DD Taunt Tar, Infernape and all sorts of sweepers that you don't to give a free turn to. Umbreon is a liability, pure and simple.
Wish|Baton Pass|Heal Bell|Taunt is the way to go with Umby imo. That set actually takes advantage of Umbreon's decent support movepool, and with a bit of investment in speed, it can make use Taunt pretty well (fyi, Gliscor and Gyarados are the only Pokemon in OU that can outpace Umbreon and render it useless with Taunt. Payback isn't going to hurt either of them much considering that Gliscor can use Roost and Gyarados has Intimidate to soften Umbreon >_>). Yawn is more of a novelty on stall teams, since its only use is to force switches.
Now if players can just realize how great of an OU lead/support Uxie is, I'll be happy ^_^
Now if players can just realize how great of an OU lead/support Uxie is, I'll be happy ^_^
You do realize that the following all learn taunt, are OU, are faster, and are not Gliscor nor Gyarados:
Aerodactyl
Weavile
Azelf
Gengar
Infernape
Electivire
Heatran
Skarmory
Plus there are a number of UU/NU Pokes that run taunt that you might see in OU.
Actually, that seems like a pretty good idea. Stall teams can abuse that with entry hazards and the like while Umbreon can continue Yawning to keep forcing switches. Nothing is really going to want to be put to sleep, so you can continue shuffling until your opponent makes up their mind on what they want to effectively become dead weight.
Weavile is still a pretty good OU, since its duties are unique, incredibly useful, and have absolutely nothing to do with Scizor. It's almost funny how ludicrously you overestimate that Steel bug, since it has a good number of hard counters that don't really give that much of a shit about Uturn and one of its greatest nemeses is a UFO magnet that would love to catch it using Bullet Punch or Pursuit.
Most of the Pokemon that you mentioned are suicide leads; Electivire can't really sacrifice any coverage; and Weavile and Gengar are too frail to make use of it (also, Scizor). Payback is doing shit damage to Skarmory and Heatran rarely uses Taunt >_>.
...?
Unlike Gliscor and Skarmory, Umbreon can prevent Crocune and Rotom-A from doing much of anything, and with Heal Bell, Umbreon doesn't have to worry much about status. You're also forgetting that Umbreon is used for Wish support, a role that's limited to only a few Pokemon in OU (Blissey, Vaporeon, Jirachi, and Latias iirc) and it even has a few perks over them - Taunt and Baton Pass to name a couple.
i mean gyara has no trouble getting set up opportunities as it is, that doesnt really sound like a good reason to use umbreon. Plus scizor isn't the only reason that umbreon's bad. Read the thread
Just wanted to throw this out there: a Modest 252 SpA Umbreon (lol) would deal 72%-85% to CB Scizor with HP Fire. That's OK if Scizor's taken some previous damage, but really are you going to run Max SpA Umbreon? (Leave aside the issue of using a moveslot for HP Fire.)
Many Tyranitars are U-Turn fodder for Scizor, but is anyone saying not to use Tyranitar? No. It's possible to take out Scizor with a certain hunk of metal.
Many Tyranitars are U-Turn fodder for Scizor, but is anyone saying not to use Tyranitar? No. It's possible to take out Scizor with a certain hunk of metal.
this has a far bigger impact in uu than ou, where it will basically be ignored completely, only to fall back down again. You thought moltres was broken? It's just lost one of it's counters, so we're gonna be seeing moltres and milotic EVERYWHERE in uu. God these new tier shifts suck, although it's good to know them, thanks rbg. So basically:
NU is the reign of fire, with slowking gone
UU will again, be dominated by moltres, to an even bigger degree now that umbry and raikou are gone
OU doesnt really change, i guess
NU is the reign of fire, with slowking gone
UU will again, be dominated by moltres, to an even bigger degree now that umbry and raikou are gone
OU doesnt really change, i guess
OU never changes, except if a Suspect Test moves something to or from Uber. The OU list has nothing to do with OU, it is a banlist for UU.
This is incorrect. First, I never said that OU was the only banlist for UU, just that it is a banlist. BL is also a banlist for UU. But by all means, feel free to put Salamence on your UU team and tell everyone that, since it is not BL, it is not banned.