Jayelt but stuff like gastro acid
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- Thread starter Dogfish44
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granting an ability mean being possibly vulnerable to gastro acid etc. And having one more ability have skill swap repercussions etc.
So...
Casteliacone Deluxe: Boosts the BAP of Rollout by 3 and causes its BAP to also be boosted by non-consecutive usage. Increases Defense and Special Defense by 1 rank. Causes the Pokemon to always move last within its priority bracket, regardless of Speed. The Pokemon's attacks will never miss an opponent and opponents' attacks will never miss the Pokemon. OHKO moves have normal accuracy when used with or against a Pokemon with this item.
Affects: Lickitung, Lickilicky.
Dueling Gloves: Boosts the BAP of Double Hit by 2 per hit. Increases STAB bonus by 1. Boosts Atk rank by 1. Fling causes the target to become taunted for 3 actions. The holder is not considered encumbered.
Affects: Aipom, Ambipom.
WRT Relic Crown, thoughts? I did see Glacier's proposal and I have serious problems to how it boosts too much a typing that Yanmega pretty much doesn't use, Tangrowth uses sparingly and Mamoswine uses quite a lot. Mamoswine has screens, stone edge and some other rock moves. Tangrowth has rock slide, ancient power and reflect (so like half rock utility) and Yanmega has Ancient Power. And that is all. Finally, being good vs sand is useless for tangrowth and yanmega for the most part, since tangrowth will mince rock mons regardless and yanmega will be minced with or without the spd boost.
So yeah, I am heavily against focusing on giving STAB, as it is a very uneven option.
Also, explaining for things: the item gives two 9bap rock moves, one special and one physical. Mamoswine can properly use the physical and Yanmega the special. Tangrowth can use both, so it has a small advantage. That is why I put +1 stab, so Tangrowth gets +1 one type and Yanmega/Mamoswine on two types, possibly evening the difference.
Just to explain.
So...
Casteliacone Deluxe: Boosts the BAP of Rollout by 3 and causes its BAP to also be boosted by non-consecutive usage. Increases Defense and Special Defense by 1 rank. Causes the Pokemon to always move last within its priority bracket, regardless of Speed. The Pokemon's attacks will never miss an opponent and opponents' attacks will never miss the Pokemon. OHKO moves have normal accuracy when used with or against a Pokemon with this item.
Affects: Lickitung, Lickilicky.
Dueling Gloves: Boosts the BAP of Double Hit by 2 per hit. Increases STAB bonus by 1. Boosts Atk rank by 1. Fling causes the target to become taunted for 3 actions. The holder is not considered encumbered.
Affects: Aipom, Ambipom.
WRT Relic Crown, thoughts? I did see Glacier's proposal and I have serious problems to how it boosts too much a typing that Yanmega pretty much doesn't use, Tangrowth uses sparingly and Mamoswine uses quite a lot. Mamoswine has screens, stone edge and some other rock moves. Tangrowth has rock slide, ancient power and reflect (so like half rock utility) and Yanmega has Ancient Power. And that is all. Finally, being good vs sand is useless for tangrowth and yanmega for the most part, since tangrowth will mince rock mons regardless and yanmega will be minced with or without the spd boost.
So yeah, I am heavily against focusing on giving STAB, as it is a very uneven option.
Also, explaining for things: the item gives two 9bap rock moves, one special and one physical. Mamoswine can properly use the physical and Yanmega the special. Tangrowth can use both, so it has a small advantage. That is why I put +1 stab, so Tangrowth gets +1 one type and Yanmega/Mamoswine on two types, possibly evening the difference.
Just to explain.
I totally forgot about the things like Skill Swap and Gastro Acid
I like Relic Crown as it is.
I like Relic Crown as it is.
Geodude6
Look at my shiny CT!
How about "confers the effects of the ability No Guard" for CCD? I think that solves the problem with skill swap etc
Edit @ below
Edit @ below
Not really.
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Does it actually matter what the description says when the proposed has the same meaning? I mean we do not see anyone campaigning to change the description of Lagging Tail to confer the no guard ability due to length, so why should CCD be a special snowflake?
Relic Crown: Boosts the BAP of Ancient Power by 3 and of Rock Slide by 1. Boosts SpD rank by 1. Increases STAB bonus by 1.
Affects: Mamoswine, Piloswine, Yanma, Yanmega, Tangela, Tangrowth.
I will move forward with the discussion. If you still want to bring up Relic Crown, do so soon.
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next on line is
Royal Honey: Increases the DEF and SPD Ranks of the equipped by one (1). "Order" moves cost two (2) less EN to use and have their priority increased by 1.
Affects: Combee, Vespiqueen.
Personally I fail to see reason for more boost. 9bap priority is pretty nifty. Regardless, thoughts?
Affects: Mamoswine, Piloswine, Yanma, Yanmega, Tangela, Tangrowth.
I will move forward with the discussion. If you still want to bring up Relic Crown, do so soon.
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next on line is
Royal Honey: Increases the DEF and SPD Ranks of the equipped by one (1). "Order" moves cost two (2) less EN to use and have their priority increased by 1.
Affects: Combee, Vespiqueen.
Personally I fail to see reason for more boost. 9bap priority is pretty nifty. Regardless, thoughts?
Vespiquen @ Royal Honey: 100/3/5/3/5/40 ~ Same stats as RC Vespiquen
Attack Order: 9 BAP, 5 EN, Prio 1, Crit Stage +1
Defend Order: 5 EN, Prio 1, Def and SpD Stage +1
Heal Order: 10 EN, Prio 1, Heal 20 HP
(Just in case anyone is wondering what the item effects)
Yeah, this item definitely doesn't need any extra help since it gives RC stats, a 9 BAP STAB priority attack, and a priority defense and healing move.
Attack Order: 9 BAP, 5 EN, Prio 1, Crit Stage +1
Defend Order: 5 EN, Prio 1, Def and SpD Stage +1
Heal Order: 10 EN, Prio 1, Heal 20 HP
(Just in case anyone is wondering what the item effects)
Yeah, this item definitely doesn't need any extra help since it gives RC stats, a 9 BAP STAB priority attack, and a priority defense and healing move.
The problem with Royal Honey isn't that the item is weak, it's Vespiquen. I could see a good argument for dropping the Def and SpDef boost and replacing it with Filter, but having both and the priority boost would be considerably better than Rare Candy's boost.
Also, I feel like being pedantic here: royal honey is not a thing, it's actually called royal jelly.
Also, I feel like being pedantic here: royal honey is not a thing, it's actually called royal jelly.
Well, Royal Honey doesn't give any STAB boosts either though
Jayelt does your thing include STAB reductions for the en?
But yeah the issue is the mon not the item. We put a lid on bug buffs, but I would still love to see 100/4/4 defenses with filter.
Filter just gives -2bap to super effective moves, compared to the -1.5 from the +1def/sdef. However, filter makes it much frailer to neutral attacks.
But yeah the issue is the mon not the item. We put a lid on bug buffs, but I would still love to see 100/4/4 defenses with filter.
Filter just gives -2bap to super effective moves, compared to the -1.5 from the +1def/sdef. However, filter makes it much frailer to neutral attacks.
Nope forgot STAB EN reduction
Frosty: filter instead of +defenses is only an effective -0.5 bap to super effective attacks, and +1.5 damage to nuetral and nve attacks compared to +1 defenses
+1bap to Attack order sounds fun for sure if someone ever is forced to use badiquen.
+1bap to Attack order sounds fun for sure if someone ever is forced to use badiquen.
Royal Honey: Increases the DEF and SPD Ranks of the equipped by one (1). "Order" moves cost two (2) less EN to use and have their priority increased by 1.
Affects: Combee, Vespiqueen.
Keeping as is. Unless someone has any serious problem with it (say if you do).
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Next is:
Rain Brooch: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration activated, regardless of weather. Increases the power of "Whip" and "Tail" moves by 3, and their accuracy by 10.
For the record the list of moves affected is:
Power Whip
Aqua Tail
Dragon tail
Iron tail
Poison tail
thoughts?
Affects: Combee, Vespiqueen.
Keeping as is. Unless someone has any serious problem with it (say if you do).
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Next is:
Rain Brooch: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration activated, regardless of weather. Increases the power of "Whip" and "Tail" moves by 3, and their accuracy by 10.
For the record the list of moves affected is:
Power Whip
Aqua Tail
Dragon tail
Iron tail
Poison tail
thoughts?
Hmm, maybe I missed this in the previous thread when the concept was made, but 2 things: Why no stat boosts, and I don't think it matches up very well with RC (which yields 1 Rank SpD and +2 STABs)
Suggestion: +1 BAP to SE moves instead of or in addition to the whip/tail bonus just because Goodra gets a lot of coverage, and majority of it in special attacks
Suggestion: +1 BAP to SE moves instead of or in addition to the whip/tail bonus just because Goodra gets a lot of coverage, and majority of it in special attacks
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Imo give it sheer force so it can make use of its huge coverage.
Thus:
Hydration active
+1 bap and +10 acc to tail moves
+effects of sheer force
That should make up for no stat boost and give better coverage than just iron tail aqua tail dragon tail (which admittedly is pretty good)
Goodra doesn't care about status
Iron Tail loses its secondary effect and gains +3 bap and 85% acc
Aqua Tail and Dragon tail have 100% acc and gain +1 bap
A lot of Goodra's coverage gains +2 BAP and loses their secondary effects (looking at elemental beams here)
Thus:
Hydration active
+1 bap and +10 acc to tail moves
+effects of sheer force
That should make up for no stat boost and give better coverage than just iron tail aqua tail dragon tail (which admittedly is pretty good)
Goodra doesn't care about status
Iron Tail loses its secondary effect and gains +3 bap and 85% acc
Aqua Tail and Dragon tail have 100% acc and gain +1 bap
A lot of Goodra's coverage gains +2 BAP and loses their secondary effects (looking at elemental beams here)
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As everyone mentioned before hand, this is fairly weak, considering that Goodra's movepool encourages it to run Quiet.. meaning that the only move in that list that it has any reason to use other than to avoid consec EN cost is Power Whip.
Alternative Proposal:
Rain Brooch: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration activated, regardless of weather. Increases the power of Water-type and Electric-type moves by 1 BAP. Increases the power of super-effective moves by 1 BAP. Increases the accuracy of all moves by 10%.
Also, if you're opposed to mini-ebelt for whatever reason(like the fact that it can just, like, actually run ebelt), replace it with +1 Def
Alternative Proposal:
Rain Brooch: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration activated, regardless of weather. Increases the power of Water-type and Electric-type moves by 1 BAP. Increases the power of super-effective moves by 1 BAP. Increases the accuracy of all moves by 10%.
Also, if you're opposed to mini-ebelt for whatever reason(like the fact that it can just, like, actually run ebelt), replace it with +1 Def
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Hmm, I like that proposal a lot more just because it makes better use of Goodra's movepool.
For Reference - The major difference here
Original: Whip and Tail moves are all physical which come at R4 Atk, but only 5 moves get boosted. Of which Goodra which only really touch Dragon Tail, Power Whip, and Iron Tail
Phoenix: Provides miniature EBelt, works with the rain a bit more by boosting Water and Electric by 1 BAP [Mostly Tbolt/Thunder, Aqua Tail, Muddy Water]
For Reference - The major difference here
Original: Whip and Tail moves are all physical which come at R4 Atk, but only 5 moves get boosted. Of which Goodra which only really touch Dragon Tail, Power Whip, and Iron Tail
Phoenix: Provides miniature EBelt, works with the rain a bit more by boosting Water and Electric by 1 BAP [Mostly Tbolt/Thunder, Aqua Tail, Muddy Water]
Movepool encouages Quiet? Really? 11 types of Physical Move (10 excluding Poison Tail) vs 10 types of Special (9 if you don't care to count Infestation). I'd say you can run either Brave or Quiet... but my plans don't involve running a Goodra at all atm, so w/e.
Having a 9 BAP STAB Switch Forcer, and a 15 BAP beatstick is very potent - and I believe you're all underrating the power of perma-Hydration.
IMO you maybe need a +1 SpD to match RC, and that'd be it? Note that we're not balancing around Expert Belt, we're balancing around RC.
Having a 9 BAP STAB Switch Forcer, and a 15 BAP beatstick is very potent - and I believe you're all underrating the power of perma-Hydration.
IMO you maybe need a +1 SpD to match RC, and that'd be it? Note that we're not balancing around Expert Belt, we're balancing around RC.
I have to agree with Dogfish here.
Isnt the big point of the new items to take on the pokemon's unique(ish) qualities to develop something entirely new that also feels useful?
We dont need to create a better Expert Belt because Goodra can just run that item instead. The current proposition to boost "Tail" and "Whip" moves works well with Goodra's movepool and really shouldnt be understimated. Essentially getting a STAB on Grass and Steel, while getting better Water coverage and a 9 BAP Phazing move is a very good way to buff it without, necessarily, outclassing other item options.
At best make the item a bit stronger (Ie, +1 Sp. Def or something), but the Tail/Whip concept is a good one.
Isnt the big point of the new items to take on the pokemon's unique(ish) qualities to develop something entirely new that also feels useful?
We dont need to create a better Expert Belt because Goodra can just run that item instead. The current proposition to boost "Tail" and "Whip" moves works well with Goodra's movepool and really shouldnt be understimated. Essentially getting a STAB on Grass and Steel, while getting better Water coverage and a 9 BAP Phazing move is a very good way to buff it without, necessarily, outclassing other item options.
At best make the item a bit stronger (Ie, +1 Sp. Def or something), but the Tail/Whip concept is a good one.
After looking at arguments, I admit that I like Rain Brooch as is, with the +SpD rank included.
So, two options here:
Rain Brooch: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration activated, regardless of weather. Increases the power of "Whip" and "Tail" moves by 3, and their accuracy by 10. Increases SpD by 1 rank.
Rain Brooch: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration activated, regardless of weather. Increases the power of "Whip" and "Tail" moves by 3. Increases accuracy on all moves by 10.
First has the trademark +best stat and the second grants accuracy boost on all moves. ftr the second is similar to our first idea to this move, which is why I added it too.
I am thinking on putting this on the booth. Thoughts?
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Also, let's begin the discussion on the last item so I can implement the final changes this year still
Dark Band: Increases Atk Rank by 1. Boosts Iron Fist by 1 BAP. Boosts Dark-Typed damaging moves by 1 BAP.
Affects: Pangoro, Pancham
Thoughts?
Rain Brooch: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration activated, regardless of weather. Increases the power of "Whip" and "Tail" moves by 3, and their accuracy by 10. Increases SpD by 1 rank.
Rain Brooch: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration activated, regardless of weather. Increases the power of "Whip" and "Tail" moves by 3. Increases accuracy on all moves by 10.
First has the trademark +best stat and the second grants accuracy boost on all moves. ftr the second is similar to our first idea to this move, which is why I added it too.
I am thinking on putting this on the booth. Thoughts?
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Also, let's begin the discussion on the last item so I can implement the final changes this year still
Dark Band: Increases Atk Rank by 1. Boosts Iron Fist by 1 BAP. Boosts Dark-Typed damaging moves by 1 BAP.
Affects: Pangoro, Pancham
Thoughts?
At that point you literally have a strictly better Rare Candy, which is 100% not the point here though
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