Next RMT! Still Weatherless!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by CombatPastor, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. CombatPastor

    CombatPastor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    I still haven't jumped on the Weather Wars bandwagon. Maybe I will one day. But as it stands now? No weather! This time I decided to focus my weatherless team a bit more. Rather than go Weatherless Balanced (which was admittedly hard to pull off) I'm going a bit more on the offense. Let me know what you guys think, and how it can be improved. :)

    All changes to the team will be stated in bold.

    Let's take a look at the team!

    First up, I had to decide on a win condition. I'd never used Scarf MoxieMence before, so I was bound and determined to have the bruiser on a team.

    [​IMG]

    Next I wanted to try out Deoxys-D. I used to have metaphorical allergic reactions to using legendaries. I'm starting to get past that. Deo-D seemed like a great bulky lead and plenty of people suggested using it on a weatherless team. So Deo-D joined the ranks.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Next, I needed ways to get rid of steel types and 8r8k H34DS... I mean walls. . So Band Terrakion and Magnezone came to mind.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    From here, I really wanted to up the offensive pressure of the team. VoltTurn seemed like a great idea, so I thought of Rotom-W...but I already had an electric. Scizor seemed like he'd be a great backup win condition, so I went with Bulky Attacker Rotom-W and Bulky SD Scizor. Magnezone wasn't really working for me, so he had to go.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I'd be an moron to let Deo-D's hard work go to waste, so I needed a spin blocker. Someone who can stop the spin, and add craptons of offensive pressure to a team. Someone who can throw off the strategies of entire sets...Of course. Sub Disable Gengar. And thus, we arrive at the current state of things.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    So here's the breakdown!

    [​IMG]

    Deoxys-D @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat

    Went with the Speedy Spiker variant. Looking at its stats, I realized this thing has the bulk to survive a few hits without even investing in defensive stats. Stealth Rock + 1 layer of Spikes is usually enough to ensure that Salamence and/or Scizor can complete a full sweep. Taunt shuts down opposing entry hazard layers, and keeps my field clear of Stealth Rocks, with hurt Salamence deeply. Magic Coat is an additional layer of troll. Using Magic Coat ensures that, with proper prediction, I have nothing to worry about from opposing Taunters. Taunt me and I'll Taunt you back. You know the drill.

    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Quick Attack

    I have come to learn that you just don't switch in on CBand Terrakion. You don't. Mons that resist his stabs still take average of 30% damage. He 8r8ks HE4DS. I know Earthquake provides redundant coverage, but I see it similarly to those who run both Outrage + Dragon Claw or Draco Meteor + Dragon Pulse. I enjoyed Earthquake for some time, but came to find Quick Attack useful, although not particularly strong. Having the priority really helps take out weakened threats. His STABs hit like trucks and X-Scissor helps me give Reuniclus headaches. I also use it to give Dark-types a hard time without worry of the predicted Ghost switch in. You switch in, you take damage, Period.

    [​IMG]

    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    This ridiculous thing is my main win condition. I've watched it sweep so many times it completely uncalled for. Outrage + Dragon Claw, for those times when I don't wanna be locked and unable to switch...or don't want to deal with the confusion. Earthquake to hit Steel switch ins or walk through Fire types. I've learned that Earthquake is a great attack to use once I've removed all the fliers and 'mons with levitate from the opposing team. Fire Blast to hit Scizor and Ferrothorn...because eff those d-bags. Mixed stats are high enough that no Special Attack investment is needed to get a good hit out of Fire Blast. Naive nature to avoid the attack cuts from using anything else that boosts speed. She's not living through an Ice Beam anyway, so screw Special Defense. Clever Girl.

    [​IMG]

    Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    Troll. Troll. Troll. Trollmoar. GRAAAHH!! TormenTran's older brother. He blocks the spin, he irritates the soul. This thing will grate on your last nerve, if you aren't prepared for it. Black Sludge is fun for predicting a Trick. Enjoy losing HP. I've had plenty of people get that "eff this thing" feeling when dealing with SubDisable Gengar. Sure, it can be beaten - but you will have a hard time.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Pain Split​

    Part one of the VoltTurn combo. Classic pairing, with the ability to neuter threats. Pain Split aids in wallbreaking. Will-O-Wisp stops Scizor, screws with Parahax Jirachi and others. Bulk for taking those hits and returning with a STAB. Hydro Pump because RAIN IS EVERYWHERE. This move hits hard as all crap without the need for heavy investment. Still learning what it does and doesn't outspeed, but Rotom-W has been great.​


    [​IMG]

    Scizor (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-Turn
    - Iron Head
    - Superpower
    - Aerial Ace

    Scizor's set has completely changed since I started this team. Some posters pointed out a huge weakness to Starmie, so I went with this set. Scarfing him may lower the power, but he now checks offensive Starmie pretty well, along with other Psychics. Went Iron Head instead of Bullet Punch, due to the increase in speed from Scarf. I may change back, but still testing. Aerial Ace helps me out alot against fighting types and grass types, specifically causes headaches for the unsuspecting Breloom. Superpower to shut down the non-scarfed Heatrans and other things expecting to be able to outspeed and roast my Scizor. U-Turn maintains the ability to keep offensive pressure - actually does so a little better now that he can outspeed alot of common counters.​


    So, this is the crew! Let me know what I can do to improve it. I'm always looking for constructive criticism as I get better and better with this whole team building thing. :)

    Importable (open)
    Deoxys-D @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Quick Attack

    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    Gengar (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 232 HP / 56 SAtk / 220 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    Scizor (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Superpower
    - Aerial Ace
  2. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Hi, there

    Nice team, but noted some weakness in Keldeo with Choice Scarf, which can make you very sick in the rain to the whole team, even Rotom-W with Secret Sword, as it has no investment in Special Defense Evs, and with Hydro Pump + Hidden Power Ice is able to kill Terrakion, Gengar, Salamence, and Scizor.
    To resolve this threat could change Evs Spread to Rotom-W in this 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 SAtk with Calm nature with Thunder Wave> Will-o-Wisp, so you can stop for good Keldeo, Scizor to stop him with Thunder Wave + Hydro Pump's do it anyway bad.

    For Deoxys-D would Red Card> Rocky Helmet, Red Card can help against different Sweeper that once you increase the statistics can be dangerous, while the Red Card refers them back and you can safely continue to place the Hazards.

    To suggest Scizor Bug Bite> U-Turn, which is better since you can attack and then not go back losing boost, U-Turn is better on the set of Choice Bander Scizor.

    While Terrakion, put Quick Attack> Earthquake, this is because as Tentacruel Pokemon, Jirachi, Magnezone, Pokemon fire several hit them already strong with Close Combat and Stone Edge, Quick Attack in the set of Choice Band Terrakion seems most useful to hit Pokemon being Statup especially difficult to kill, also provides a priority in the team more than a Bullet Punch Scizor, a priority able to hit effectively Volcarona and Thundurus-T (Scarf) for example.
    Good luck, with your team!

    tl;dr
    Show Hide

    252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 SAtk with Calm nature (for Rotom-W)
    Red Card > Rocky Helmet (for Deoxys-D)
    Bug Bite > U-Turn (for Scizor)
    Quick Attack > Earthquake (for Terrakion)
  3. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    cool team man!

    Your team doesnt really have many weaknesses but i think you can fix a little some of your sets.
    First, i see scarfkeldeo as a problem for your team, because it outspeeds salamence and it kos it with hidden power ice (which is very common on scarfkeldeo) in can switch on scizor without problems, it outspeeds terrakion and gengar that are all murdered by hydro pump under rain (even surf here can ko those things)
    Your best chance to win against it its probably rotom-w, but as you can understand rotom-w already have to switch in against others water pokemon commonly seen under rain (politoed itself is enough to weaken rotom-w so that keldeo can sweep) and since you lack of some bulk you wont like to switch in on water moves frequently. To an extent, starmie itself its a pain for this team to face, it can actually beat Gengar, so that your whole strategy with deo-d+gengar is ruined, and it also outspeeds terrakion and probably koes scizor with hydro pump.

    A quick fix to this is probably to use a different set on gengar, which is Scarf Gengar. I can assure it works very well with deoxys-d, mainly because it outspeeds starmie, which is painfull to face here, and it also outspeeds Scarf keldeo. The set i would recommend you is Shadow ball / focus blast / destiny bond / Thunder. Thunder actually does a lot to scarf keldeo under rain, (actually it does 86% with a min damage, which is more or less ko with spikes+sr) as well as doing heavy damage to other bulky water just to have an another reliable move to deal with them so that rotom-w has less pressure. Destiny bond in other hand, is your preferred filler move that comes in handy when you have to ko spinners that you know are going to kill you, and its a nice move to stop setup pokemon in a pinch, lets say a dragon dance salamence setup on deo-d, you dont have to care much abouth that because destiny bond will assure you to kill it, regardless if it has sub or whatever else.
    Other than this, great team and gl!

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]--> Gengar (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Destiny Bond
  4. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    879
    Hi there.
    It is a very effective and very strong team, I can't really rate your team because it seems very correct for an offensive team, but you are disadvantaged against Starmie, I explain you: in your team you have nothing to prevent Starmie to use Rapid Spinn because Rotom is outspeed, Gengar is 2HKO by Surf/Hydrompump (OHKO by Psychic) and OHKO under rain, then even if you put Salamence, the opponent can switch and come after to continue, I suggest you to Scizor Choice Scarf, it is a very good pokemon for your team, he can outspeed Starmie and kill him with Uturn and it can also kill Latios/Latias easily, then you can trapp with Pursuit if opponent switch, and now with Rotom-W you can be awesome (VoltSwitch + Uturn).

    Scizor (open)
    Scizor (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Bullet Punch/Iron Head
    - Superpower


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Scizor--->Choice Scarf


    Hope I Helped and Good Luck With Your Team.
  5. CombatPastor

    CombatPastor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    Thanks so much for the rates! I'm loving the fact that no one has suggested I change mons, which must say that I made some decent decisions on my picks.

    As far as the changes, I'll probably be coming back to these changes to use for testing very soon. For now, I'll make the following changes:

    > Rotom-W to 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 SAtk with Calm nature, Will-O-Wisp to Thunder Wave
    > Deoxys-D to Red Card

    I'll come back to the other changes and see what fits soon. :)

    Again, you guys rawk!
  6. CombatPastor

    CombatPastor

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    Dec 19, 2012
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    I went with the changes, and tested a bit. They didn't quite work well for me. Most people left their entry hazard mon in on Deo-D...and attacked. Caused me to Red Card the entry hazard Mon instead of the setup sweepers...

    Also the bulkier set for Rotom-W slowed the team down considerably. I kept the Thunder Wave though. Figured that may allow me to get off a quick Thunder Wave on a Choice Locked Keldeo.
  7. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    96
    I agree with what Mr green said about scizor. It really needs the extra coverage without having to switch out so bug bite>U-turn. Other than that your team seams solid and I agree that red card always activates when you don't want it to so I'd continue using rocky helmet or a mental herb which helps against surprise taunts/encores.
  8. CombatPastor

    CombatPastor

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    Dec 19, 2012
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    I'll look into the Bug Bite. I thought about switching Scizor up a bit more anyway. Rather than have him as a Swords Dancer, switch to a trapper, using Expert Belt + Bullet Punch, U-Turn, Superpower, and Pursuit. Max Attack and HP.

    Also thought about ditching Gengar and Rotom-W for Jolteon and Jellicent. Thoughts.
  9. ala

    ala
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Personally I wouldn't, since now with Torn-T getting banned Jolteon kind of lost its niche, which is being able to outspeed the bird. Jellicent is kind of slow for an offensive team like this, I think this team suits Gengar a lot more. Rotom-W is an important pokemon for weatherless teams because it is one of few who can counter Rain and Sand. Its the glue that holds this team together.

    I just wanted to give my input on that, the team looks really good, definitely try out other Scizor sets though, that seems to be your weak link. Good job and best of luck with your team!
  10. Morgenstern

    Morgenstern

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
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    I would recommend this Scizor set.
    Show Hide
    Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower

    I really never liked that SD roost scizor set on a pretty offensive team like the one you got. Also Red Card has its benefits but i would say to just keep Rocky Helmet. Sorry for not being too descriptive and stuff but im not that kind of guy lol. Gl and hope it improves your team :DDDDD
  11. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Battling 101 Leader

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    The main problem with your team is that it's fundamentally built wrong. You tried to build it like a volturn team, but those aren't really as effective anymore. I would recommend you change it to more of a heavy offensive team, as Gengar is just looking like dead weight at the moment. Other than annoying your opponent, it isn't that useful in carrying out a Salamence sweep, which is the goal of your team.


    • Change Rocky Helmet to Red Card on Deoxys-D. I know that you already stated that you didn't like the change, but it has more to do than just switching out sweepers. It also rotates the opponent team, so that if luck is on your side, you can get another layer up, when you wouldn't have been able to before.
    • Change Terrakion from Choice Band to Life Orb. Nothing is worse than locking a Pokemon in a move in a heavy offensive team. When you do this, switch the set to Swords Dance / Rock Polish / Close Combat / Stone Edge. I would advise against the Sub Salac set, as is meant to be a sweeper, while you're using this as your breaker.
    • Change Salamence's nature to +atk, -sp def. There's no more Genesect in the metagame, so you can opt to give it more power again.
    • For your three remaining Pokemon, there are a number of options you have. I'm going to give you options, simply because beyond telling you what possible options there are, I'm not going to take the time to test them myself. As I said earlier, the fundamentals of the team are wrong. Obviously, Gengar needs to be taken out. Rotom-W and Scizor on your team are currently both being used as pivots, which is pointless. You should only have one pivot.
    • To solve this, you can keep Rotom-W as your pivot and then make Scizor into a SD set. In this scenario, you would want to change Rotom-W into either a breaker or sweeper. As such, possible options are Lucario, Dragonite etc. The possibilities are endless, but I'd suggest just trying the SD set first. Point is, you don't want two pivots.
    • On the other hand, you can keep Scizor as your pivot and then change Rotom-W into a breaker. The reason why this has to be a breaker is because Rotom-W's purpose on the team was mainly to sponge Water-type attacks from rain teams. As such, something like Kyurem-B could fit. However, make sure to remember what your replacements were countering. For instance, your Rotom-W countered Scizor, so either your sweeper or breaker would need to deal with it.
    • I know I gave a lot of suggestions here for your last three Pokemon, but what I'd suggest trying first would be keeping Scizor as your pivot (change the item to Leftovers, though), change Rotom-W to Kyurem-B (Substitute / Ice Beam / Outrage / Fusion Bolt), and change Gengar to Lucario. Since you're replacing Rotom-W, adding Lucario gives you a way of dealing with Scizor, without actually having to counter it, which keeps your offensive presence. Kyurem-B will also allow you to switch into Water-type attacks (what Rotom-W also offered) and break opposing teams for Lucario and Salamence.
  12. CombatPastor

    CombatPastor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
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    Is it a good idea to replace Gengar? That would leave me without a spinblocker.
  13. CombatPastor

    CombatPastor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
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    I guess I'll assume this one is dead. Thanks for all the help. :)
  14. CombatPastor

    CombatPastor

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    I thought I was done with editing this team, but I'm too interested in it to stop. So, here's the latest changes.

    Scizor's getting a Scarf! This helps with the weakness to Starmie. Set I'm running is the Scarf set from Smogon analysis.

    Rotom-W is going back to being more of a defensive pivot and countering Scizor, so changing the EVs and moveset. 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe with Will-o-wisp.

    After playtesting with Terrakion, Quick Attack has been coming in handy. So I'm swapping out Earthquake for Quick Attack. I'll make edits to the main post, so let me know what you think!

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