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Nice n Hot

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Edgar, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is an official Team Rateris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
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    Nice n Hot

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    So X and Y come out in less than 2 weeks and I think it's time to post my favorite and most creative offensive sun team. I built this team with a friend after I tried Venusaur in ubers (which was a complete failure) and decided to build something around Trick Room Dialga and Victini offensive core, I thought it would destroy teams of any kind since as you all know V-Create in the sun is a nightmare and also, Victini has a really nice movepool so it was really easy to fit it on a team. I used this in a couple of Ubers Open matches as well as Unova Region challenge. Before you rate it according to the team structure let me explain you each poke individually.


    [​IMG]
    Tony (Groudon) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 240 HP / 164 Def / 104 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar


    I wanted sun with Victini so I decided to add Groudon. I chose to use Physically Defensive Groudon over the standard offensive set that everyone is using since I thought it would support the team better, which it does. This set is self explanatory but I'll explain it anyways, 104 Speed EV's are to outspeed most of Ho-Oh's and Giratina-O's variants. Stone Edge is for killing Ho-Oh, normally what I do is, switch in on Sacred Fire (I don't care about burns since I have the Lum Berry) and then outspeed them with a fast Stone Edge. Lum Berry is also useful against lead Darkrai since they always Dark Void as I break their Focus Sash. Roar is for phazing Extremekiller Arceus and Earthquake is standard STAB move.


    [​IMG]
    Tony (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Sleep Talk
    - Fire Blast
    - Hydro Pump


    This is probably the weirdest set you'll see on the team. I needed a Kyogre switching really badly but running another Scarf user would take a spot on the team and would be kind of incomplete so I decided to run Choice Scarf Palkia. I'm not a big fan of Scarf Palkia but I needed to use it to check certan pokemon like Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Kyurem (which are really big threats to my team). Sleep Talk takes away a moveslot but It was the only answer I could find just so I can keep Arceus-Dark and not using other scarf user since late game Darkrai screws me over if I don't have Sleep Talk. Hydro Pump is to destroy opposing rain teams, Sapcial Rend and Fire Blast are just standard coverage moves.


    [​IMG]
    Tony (Victini) @ Flame Plate
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - U-turn


    This the main pokemon on the team, Trick Room Victini. We've seen how good Victini is in the lower tiers and how much potential it has when running it on a Sun Team. It's amazing how easy is for Victini to set up Trick Room since it has a lot of bulk for being a sweeper (as many pokemon in ubers do lol) and not only that, the Psychic type really helps it a lot since it can easily set up Trick Room on Mewtwo or a -2 Lati@s or any dragon really. Alongside Dialga, this pokemon is really scary, I'll provide the calcs after I'm done explaining this mon. V-Create is the standard stab move, Victini doesn't really mind the drops since its companion Dialga destroys what Victini can't. Bolt Strike destroys the Pokemon that resist V-Create baring Palkia and Rayquaza. And U-turn is for using it when my opponent has something that would completely wall Victini, like Physically Defensive Giratina (Dialga takes care of it with Draco Meteor). I also use Flame Plate over Life Orb because I don't want it to die so quickly.

    Calcs:​
    Show Hide

    252 Atk Flame Plate Victini (+Atk) V-create vs 252 HP/0 Def Ho-oh: 63.22% - 74.52% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)(Dies after SR)
    252 Atk Flame Plate Victini (+Atk) V-create vs 252 HP/252 Def Groudon (+Def) : 67.82% - 80.2% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
    252 Atk Flame Plate Victini (+Atk) V-create vs 0 HP/0 Def Groudon: 105.87% - 124.93% Guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Flame Plate Victini (+Atk) V-create vs 252 HP/252 Def Lugia (+Def) : 69.47% - 82.21% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)(has a big chance to die after SR)
    252 Atk Flame Plate Victini (+Atk) V-create vs 0 HP/0 Def Giratina-O (+Def) : 49.66% - 58.5% 2-3 hits to KO}
    252 Atk Flame Plate Victini (+Atk) V-create vs 252 HP/0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 92.79% - 109.46% 56.25% chance to OHKO (Dies after SR)
    252 Atk Flame Plate Victini (+Atk) V-create vs 0 HP/0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 108.14% - 127.56%
    252 Atk Victini (+Atk) Bolt Strike vs 0 HP/0 Def Kyogre: 82.7% - 97.95% 2 hits to KO (Cannot switch in on V-create + Bolt Strike)
    252 Atk Victini (+Atk) Bolt Strike vs 252 HP/0 Def Ho-oh: 67.79% - 80.29% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    [​IMG]
    Tony (Dialga) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Trick Room


    Trick Room Dialga is one of my favorite sweepers and thought it would be nice to use it with Victini. Those two are an amazing combo, They destroy each other's checks and counters. The surprise factor is one of the things that this team takes advantage of as no one really expects Trick Room Dialga or Victini. This set is really standard, Draco Meteor just nukes everything that comes in, Fire Blast gets some KOs as well and Outrage, Outrage is debatable weather I should use it or not (or simply replace it with Dragon Pulse) because when at -2 after you use Draco Meteor your opponent brings Ho-Oh (which gets OHKO'd after SR) or the bulky Arceus form but I don't like it that much because you have to either play with confusion or switch out which helps can end up helping your opponent more (if you are facing a bulky Arceus-Ghost for example). Trick Room Dialga is one of the best late game sweepers in general (in my opinion).


    [​IMG]
    Sour (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 208 Atk / 252 Def / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Magic Coat
    - Shadow Sneak


    Another weird ass set. Standard phsyical wall / attacker set, You may think running Hidden Power Fire on Physically defensive Giratina is completely retarded but the only purpse it has is to deal with Custap Berry Forretress and play around it with Magic Coat and Hidden Power Fire. Giratina is also my second Extremekiller Arceus switch in and also can take care of Kabutops and Excadrill at some extent. The other moves are very standard, Dragon Tail to phaze in general and break stall, Shadow Sneak is a very nice priority move for doing a lot of damage to Lati@s and Mewtwo. Had Ghosteus over this before but the team was losing to weather sweepers a lot so decided to change it and it worked just fine.


    [​IMG]
    Tony (Arceus-Dark) @ Dread Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Refresh
    - Judgment
    - Recover


    I used Forretress and Ghoteus before and it didn't work too well so I tried Darkceus and Giratina-O and it worked pretty well. Basically Arceus-Dark's goal is to eliminate the Pokemon that Victini or Dialga can't set up Trick Room on (Arceus-Ghost,Giratina/Origin, Lugia). It also helps a lot when I'm facing a well built stall team since almost every stall team has trouble dealing with a last pokemon Arceus-Dark. Arceus-Dark also provides an Arceus-Ghost check when I win the needed speed ties. Amazing pokemon on this team overall. Standard Calm Mind set, Judgment is probably the strongest Dark-type move in the game, Recover for obvious purposes and Refresh over Substitute since it's going to be coming on Lugia/Giratina a lot and Toxic/Will-o-Wisp/Thunder Wave would annoy this pokemon a lot and the team doesn't care about Ferrothorn at all so it's fine without sub lol.​

    Threats:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    These Arceus forms can be really annoying sometimes, especially Rock Arceus. The other 2 I need to set up Trick Room for a better chance of winning.


    [​IMG]
    If Mixed it gets 1 or 2 kills.

    [​IMG]
    If I lose Palkia GG.


    Conclusion:

    This team is really good and fun to use it packs a lot of surprises for your opponent and it wins battles really battle, I consider 20+ turns a long battle for this team honestly. It does well on both ladder and tournaments. If you find it hard to use it's ok, it usually is kinda hard to use against sand when used by a good player.

    Shoutouts:

    IDM (Hugo,Steve,bitch ass CTC, pk,new breed, cased, shake and everyone I forgot)
    Solrocks
    SOTI
    Problems: For giving me the idea of putting victini on a team and always funny watching him complain lolo.
    Tony: For helping me make the team more solid.
    Sour: :[l]
    Joey: Fwend :]
    Blimlax: One of the best players left.
    Dice: Great teambuilder and gr8 friend.
    -Manaphy--: Really cool dude and skilled player as well.
    PWN: How did u get to round 5 of the ubers open without ghosting?
    chimpact: he's cool
    others: Melee Mewtwo, Furai, shrang, Sweep.

    Importable:

    Show Hide

    Groudon @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 240 HP / 164 Def / 104 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Sleep Talk
    - Fire Blast
    - Hydro Pump

    Victini @ Flame Plate
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - U-turn

    Dialga @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Trick Room

    Giratina (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 208 Atk / 252 Def / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Magic Coat
    - Shadow Sneak

    Arceus (Arceus-Dark) @ Dread Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Refresh
    - Judgment
    - Recover
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013
  2. ogasian

    ogasian

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    Nice team Blackstardust, the only threat that you dont really have covered is Terrakion. While Groudon checks it pretty damn nicely, Double Dance Terrak (if it sets up) destroys the rest of your team. All it really needs is Groudon weakened and Gira-O weakened. And, as you said, MixQuaza can be threatening, but MixQuaza threatens every team except ones with all scarfers :P Idk what to change tho, and im sure a player of your caliber can play around it.
  3. Sweep

    Sweep
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

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    I like the use of Darkceus on this team, synergizes very well with with your Trick Room abusers. I also like Flame Plate over Life Orb on Victini as you'll mainly be spamming V-Create anyway.

    Couple of random notes, I feel 104 speed for support Impish Groudon is too much, many Giratina-O and most Ho-Oh don't come close to that. I'd lower its speed to 52 or so to take physical hits a little better. I'd also like to see Toxic somewhere, as bulky Support Arceus forms with Perish Song (especially Arceus-Water) have the potential to take repeated hits from your wallbreakers while preventing Darkceus from attempting a last mon sweep. Toxic can also aggravate Ho-Oh, which is a little problematic if SR is not up. Maybe replace HP Fire on Giratina-O for Toxic, as HP Fire is really situational and Magic Coat bothers Custap Forry as it is.

    Innovative and strong team, I will likely try this out sometime!
  4. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    liepard fucking wrecks this team........................... other than that it's pretty solid and innovative.
  5. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is an official Team Rateris a SPL Winner

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    The only pokemon it can set up on is Arceus-Dark lol.

    Hidden Power Fire makes me skip the mind games with Forretress and I also considered Toxic support Darkeus but I figured the team would be kinda weak to rain stall.
  6. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I was being serious about the liepard post =/
  7. Donkey

    Donkey

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    Scald/Roar Kyogre can pretty much wall your entire team bar Dialga, similarly, fast Specs Kyogre can tear through your entire team bar Palkia. Not a big fan of Palkia on this team since it's only purpose is to wall Kyogre; Genesect and Terrakion with Sleep Talk both fit way better. Unfortunately, you can't beat Kyogre offensively because your TR setters are all weak to Kyogre, which forces you to run Palkia.

    Run Thunder on Dialga instead of Outrage (Life Orb Thunder hits Ho-Oh fucking hard especially with SR). Outrage also ruins Trick room's momentum if they have any Arceus form with Recover or Steel type.
  8. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    yeah i kinda wanted to tell you my rate on irc before posting it but donkey kinda stole me

    so yeah p much stalk terrak would fit so much better on this team. you can use genesect but i think that the extra insurance vs ekiller can be much more helpful. you should probably use it over dialga as it sorta still helps against gene and then use tr palkia instead of the scarf set which still synergizes very well and maybe even better with victini.

    obviously keep hp fire on tina-o it's amazingly useful

    you might wanna try lava plume > roar for some nice burns, but it's really not a must at all

    very cool team!!! :toast:
    Donkey likes this.
  9. Kebabe

    Kebabe
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Cool team, and im allways a fan of trick room, and Victini is nice too.

    But as a sun player I can't avoid to see the huge weakness to standard sun offence. Ho-oh wrecks your whole team as you have no switch ins( common for a lot of teams) but on top of that it can switch in for free on one third of your team and without to much of a problem on dialga and palkia either. The only poke that beats it one vs one is groudon. Also E-killer should be mentioned since you only have two one time answers to it, both who checks it with a phazing move. ie not doing any damage to it. And it has scarf palkia as set up bait.

    I think you at least should consider a support arceus rock (with toxic if you are afraid of ghostceus)
  10. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is an official Team Rateris a SPL Winner

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    I'll try TR Palkia and Terrak as furai suggested :]
  11. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    aw thanks for the shoutout :]

    nothing much I have to say here that hasn't already been said, definitely try out Terrakion and see where that takes you.
  12. Shaymin 492

    Shaymin 492

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    Faced this team, trick room is really a suprise, very good team imo
  13. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

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    Nice team. Creative nicknames.
  14. Son Gohan

    Son Gohan

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    You have no rapid spinner and kyogre with ferrothorn can cause problems for your team.
    Wepwn, Soulgazer, FLCL and 3 others like this.
  15. Kawaii Kyouko

    Kawaii Kyouko

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    252+ Atk Flame Plate Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ferrothorn in rain: 420-496 (119.31 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Darkceus sets up.
    252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 276-328 (78.4 - 93.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Palkia Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 196-232 (55.68 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Gira-O Magic Coats it.

    Ferrothorn isn't a problem.

    As for Spinner, it's not really super necessary when only one Pokemon is weak to Rocks.
    Kyogre causes problems. To any team that isn't Palkia/Arceus-Grass/Giratina, so yeah.


    I agree with TR Palkia a lot, as Ferui said.
    ogasian likes this.
  16. Son Gohan

    Son Gohan

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    Im pretty sure someone with a ferrothorn won't stay in with a victini against them even in rain. However if ferrothorn leech seeds and predicts well and with hazards, you never know.
  17. ogasian

    ogasian

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    Please don't use prediction for an argument. That's based on the players skill. Rate the Team, not the player. Also, because it forces it out, it beats it. With your reasoning, Palkia doesn't beat Zekrom because the player switches out. Victini beats Ferrothorn. Period.
  18. Sweep

    Sweep
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    This is a sun team. 4 of its 6 members have fire moves.

    Ferrothorn can indeed annoy this team with good prediction (as it can with almost any team with rain up), but it really isn't a major threat.

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