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Nidoking [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by masterful, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. masterful

    masterful

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    QC: (Chou Toshio, Heysup, Delta 2777) GP: (,)
    [​IMG]

    Nidoking

    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking has always made up for its less-than-stellar stats with an enormous movepool and useful resistances. Now, with boosted power from its new ability, Sheer Force, Nidoking can finally abuse its wide coverage to great effect. With a unique defensive typing, packing resistances to both Rock- and Fighting-type moves, the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, and an immunity to Thunder Wave, Nidoking can also be useful in a supporting role despite its weakness to Ground-type attacks. The ability to avoid common status moves also contributes to its offensive effectiveness, keeping it from being shut down by Thunder Wave or worn down by Toxic. Overall, the combination of a fantastic movepool, huge power, and great defensive typing make Nidoking a good choice for many teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Fire Blast / Sludge Wave / Focus Blast
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take advantage of Nidoking's expansive special movepool, now boosted in both power and by Sheer Force. With a free 1.3x boost in conjunction with the lack of Life Orb recoil, Nidoking can spam its powerful special moves to deal great amounts of damage to the opponent's team. Besides all-out attacking, this set also functions as a fantastic Baton Pass receiver, as Nidoking's only true weakness is its low Speed stat. Earth Power is Nidoking's primary STAB attack, dealing super effective damage to Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon. Fire Blast ensures important OHKOes on Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Escavalier. Sludge Wave is also usable in this slot, as it receives a STAB boost while still hitting Grass-type Pokemon super effectively, although Fire Blast has better coverage in general. Focus Blast is also usable, as it can 2HKO Snorlax and Umbreon after Stealth Rock damage, and hits Rotom-H reasonably hard. It also has the added benefit of 2HKOing Chansey if Nidoking is passed a +2 boost to its Special Attack, although hitting twice in a row with Focus Blast is never something you want to rely on. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are used in conjunction for their fantastic coverage, hitting most common Pokemon for at least neutral damage. These two moves, alongside Earth Power, hit a large portion of the metagame for super effective damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Nidoking's Speed and Special Attack stats so it can hit as hard and fast as possible. Substitute can be used in the third or fourth moveslot, as it takes advantage of the switches Nidoking forces to ease prediction and bypass Nidoking's relatively low Speed. As this set uses only special attacks, it stands to reason that specially defensive Pokemon such as Chansey will be able to take its hits with ease. Therefore, Pokemon such as Gallade and Heracross, which can easily deal with special walls, make great partners for Nidoking. An especially useful teammate is Dugtrio, which can trap specially defensive Pokemon and ensure a KO, clearing the field for Nidoking to spam its powerful special attacks. Rotom-H is one of this set's biggest counters, as it resists every move except Sludge Wave and can dispatch Nidoking with a powerful Choice Specs-boosted hit. For this reason, Pokemon that can reliably set up Stealth Rock, such as Blastoise or Hitmontop, work well with Nidoking, minimizing the number of times Rotom-H can switch in and absorb Nidoking's attacks. Finally, Gorebyss and Huntail make excellent partners as well, since Nidoking becomes virtually unstoppable with a Shell Smash passed to it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Sludge Wave / Fire Blast
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set abuses the power boost from Sheer Force while bypassing Nidoking's relatively low Speed through the use of a Choice Scarf. With the pseudo-Life Orb boost from Sheer Force, Nidoking can use Choice Scarf without fear of a steep drop in power. Earth Power is Nidoking's best STAB option, hitting Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon super effectively. Fire Blast does the most damage to Grass-type Pokemon that resist Earth Power, such as Abomasnow and Shaymin. Sludge Wave can be used over Fire Blast for double STAB, as it still hits Grass-type Pokemon super effectively, and the boost in power can compensate somewhat for the reduced coverage. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt form the infamous BoltBeam combo, and have great coverage in conjunction with each other.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Nidoking the greatest power along with the Speed to abuse the Choice Scarf. Choice Scarf Nidoking is easily walled by specially defensive Pokemon such as Chansey. Therefore, Pokemon that can easily deal with specially defensive walls, such as Escavalier and Mamoswine, make excellent partners for Nidoking, as they can clear the field for Nidoking to spam its powerful special attacks without worry. Dugtrio makes one of the best teammates for Nidoking, as it can trap and guarantee a KO on these specially defensive Pokemon. Since Choice Scarf Nidoking relies entirely on the power boost from Sheer Force to do significant damage, bulky attackers such as Rotom-H can take a few hits from Nidoking and likely KO in return with their own powerful attacks. In terms of nature, a Timid nature allows Nidoking to outpace Pokemon such as Jolly Choice Scarf Mamoswine and tie with Pokemon such as Jolly Choice Scarf Heracross, while a Modest Nature gives Nidoking the most power, while still allowing it to outspeed all Pokemon with base 130 Speed and lower not holding a Choice Scarf.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Sucker Punch can be used on the Special Attacker set, as even with no Attack investment and only a neutral nature Nidoking can do good damage to Pokemon such as Victini and Mew, and even revenge kill them if they are significantly weakened. Other options are outclassed by Nidoking's normal movesets.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Nidoking is primarily a special attacker, specially defensive walls such as Chansey can take its hits with ease and KO it with repeated attacks. A strong attacker that outspeeds Nidoking and carries a super effective attack, such as Azelf or Mew, can usually OHKO it. Flygon is one of the best checks to Nidoking, as it resists all of Nidoking's common moves outside of Ice Beam and can KO it with Earthquake. Rotom-H is also a strong check to Nidoking, as it can switch in on any of Nidoking's moves besides Sludge Wave and get off a free attack. Nidoking can also be trapped and KOed by Dugtrio for a revenge kill.</p>
  2. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    two sets i can think of are scarf and life orb 4 attacks. just mention Rotom-h walling the lo 4 attacks set if its running earth power, fire blast, ice beam, thunderbolt
  3. masterful

    masterful

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    The big guy's ready for qc
  4. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    The first set's not mixed at all, change the name. I think you could combine the 2 sets (since they're the exact same) and explain the uses of Life Orb and Choice Scarf. An actual mixed set would be nice.
  5. masterful

    masterful

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    Mixed really isn't usable, as EQ still does nothing to Chansey and Superpower is illegal with Sheer Force. The two sets operate really differently, so I wouldn't want to lump them together. Locking yourself into one move is very different than being slow but versatile. Also, Substitute is usable on the first set, but not with Scarf, so I see little reason to actually combine them.
  6. Steel Tyranitar

    Steel Tyranitar

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    In the Option Changes section, why don't you change Sludge bomb to Sludge Wave? They both have the same power points, accuracy, and Sludge bomb's extra chance of poisoning is removed by Sheer Force anyways. Sludge Wave still gets the boost because it normally has a 10% percent chance of poisoning.
  7. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Mention Sucker Punch in OO. It's useful against Psychic-types, such as Azelf, Espeon, offensive Mew and to revenge Victini.
  8. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    A few things to mention:

    -On the LO set, mention that this is one of the best Baton Pass targets in UU, being a monster after receiving Shell Pass or Quiver Dance, and its T-Wave immunity plays well here.

    -Don't mention Dragon Pulse or Surf at all-- neither of these attacks receive the Sheer Force boost, and are thus pathetically weak.

    -Slash Sludge Wave straight onto the sets with Fire Blast. Fire Blast's added coverage is minimal, and Sludge Wave's sheer power can be brutal.

    -Rock Slide deserves an OO mention for hitting Rotom-H for super effective and getting the Sheer Force boost.
  9. breh

    breh ⁰ ゝ⁰
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    Sludge Wave is actually more powerful than Surf on Rotom-H. It's also roughly as powerful as Rock Slide (if you have more SpA investment than Attack, it is more powerful).

    It's all you need for Rotom-H; other options seem inferior.
  10. Camisado

    Camisado

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    Is Water Pulse legal on a Sheer Force set? A LOSF Water Pulse does more than a LO Surf, right?
  11. breh

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    no, actually it doesn't.

    Just use sludge wave.
  12. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Perhaps Focus Blast deserves a slash over Fire Blast on the LO set? It lets you 2HKO even the most specially defensive Snorlax and Umbreon (Snorlax requires SR factoring in Lefties.) and is boosted by Sheer Force. You're still not getting past Chansey and its very inaccurate sure, but it narrows down your counter list even more and it still covers Abomasnow, plus it hits Rotom-H very hard.

    Focus Blast also lets you 2HKO Chansey if Nidoking is somehow passed 2 Quiver Dances or a Nasty Plot. :P
  13. Foster

    Foster

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    Would a physical set be viable? Mostly for surprise value and it has an easier time getting past Chansey and Snorlax. It has a worse movepool on the physical side, but it probably isn't that bad

    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Poison Jab
    move 4: Fire Punch / Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
  14. masterful

    masterful

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    Changes have been made. I completely forgot about Sludge Wave...

    As for a physical set, I feel it's more of a gimmick, as Nidoking's physical movepool is far inferior to its special movepool, and despite the surprise value, it still has a rough time breaking through Pokemon like Chansey, so the benefit is minimal.
  15. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Pretty much no and the pure physical set suggestion-- the reason is that Chansey is simply way too physically bulky for that to be an effective surprise. If Mamo can't 2HKO Chansey, physical Nidoking just isn't worth looking at.

    Looks good dude

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved (1/3)
  16. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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  17. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    QC Approved (2/3)

    Mixed Hone Claws was approved for the OU analysis, you could get away with adding that if you'd like, but if not it's no big deal since it's probably its "least viable yet still viable" set.
  18. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Your counters section is really weak. Milotic is hardly a counter because a combination of Earth Power + Thunderbolt will usually KO standard Milotic if SR is on the field. How is Rotom-H the best Nidoking counter when its obliterated by Sludge Wave? Milotic is a check at best but shouldn't deserve a mention. Rotom-H is a strong check not a counter. I'd recommend replacing Milotic with strong checks. Flygon for example is an excellent Nidoking check because it can switch into a majority of Nidokings moves, outspeed and OHKO with EQ.

    A tad nitpicky, but Nidoking isn't frail (81/77/75 defenses with that typing is pretty good) you probably want to re-word it like so: A fast Pokemon who carries a strong super effective attack can easily revenge kill Nidoking.
  19. masterful

    masterful

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    Thanks. I've made the changes, and this set is ready for gp
  20. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    Sludge wave is better than fire blast as the only thing fire blast hits is literally escavalier. Every other steel is destroyed by earth power and sludge wave is an excellent "what to do move" as it never misses, doesnt get bypassed by flying types, and all steel types that can come in on it are brutally massacred.

    I blame delta for horrible qc checking

    Edit: and I would much rather have a move for rotomh rather than a move for escavalier (who you can hit neutrally, unlike rotom)
  21. Honko

    Honko
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    Nidoking so boss.

    Unofficial Proofread (open)
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    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking has always made up for its less-than-stellar stats with an enormous movepool and useful resistances. Now, with boosted power from its new ability, Sheer Force, Nidoking can finally abuse its wide coverage to great effect. Along with its new-found power boost, Nidoking still possesses the same typing that allows it to find a place on nearly any team. With a unique defensive typing, packing resistances to both Rock- and Fighting-type moves, in conjunction with its the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes,(comma) and an immunity to Thunder Wave, Nidoking can also be useful in a supporting role despite its weakness to Ground-type attacks. The ability to avoid common statuses also contributes to its offensive effectiveness, keeping it from being shut down by Thunder Wave or worn down by Toxic. Overall, the combination of a fantastic movepool, huge power, and a great defensive typing make Nidoking a good choice for many teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Sludge Wave / Fire Blast / Focus Blast
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take advantage of Nidoking's expansive special movepool, now boosted in both power and survivability by Sheer Force. With a free 1.3x boost in conjunction with the lack of Life Orb recoil, Nidoking can spam its powerful special moves to deal great amounts of damage to the opponent's team. Besides all-out attacking, this set also functions as a fantastic Baton Pass receiver, as Nidoking's only true weakness is its low Speed stat. Earth Power is Nidoking's primary STAB attack, dealing super effective damage to Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon. Fire Blast hits Pokemon such as Abomasnow for super effective damage, ensuring important OHKOs. (like what? examples please) Sludge Wave is also usable in this slot, as it receives a STAB boost while still hitting Grass-type Pokemon super effectively, although Fire Blast has better coverage in general. Focus Blast is another option, as it can 2HKO Snorlax and Umbreon after Stealth Rock damage,(remove comma) and hits Rotom-H reasonably hard. It also has the added benefit of being able to 2HKO Chansey if Nidoking is passed a +2 boost to its Special Attack, although hitting twice in a row with Focus Blast is never something you want to rely on, as the drop in accuracy can be very significant. However, as a Poison-type move, it does not have quite as good coverage as Fire Blast. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are used in conjunction for their fantastic coverage, hitting all but Rotom-H for at least neutral damage. These two moves, alongside Earth Power, hit a large portion of the metagame for super effective damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Nidoking's Speed and Special Attack stats,(remove comma) so it can hit as hard and fast as possible. Substitute can be used in the third or fourth moveslot, Substitute can be used, as it takes advantage of the switches Nidoking forces to ease prediction and bypass Nidoking's relatively low Speed. Seeing As this set uses only special attacks, it stands to reason that specially defensive Pokemon such as Chansey will be able to take its hits with ease. For this reason, Pokemon such as Gallade and Heracross, which can easily deal with special walls, make great partners for Nidoking. An especially useful teammate is Dugtrio, which can trap those specially defensive Pokemon and ensure a KO, clearing the field for Nidoking to spam its powerful special attacks. Rotom-H is one of this set's biggest counters, as it resists every move except Sludge Wave and can hit Nidoking with a powerful Choice Specs-boosted hit. For this reason, Pokemon that can reliably set up Stealth Rock, such as Donphan, work well with Nidoking, minimizing the number of times Rotom-H can switch in and absorb Nidoking's attacks. (Donphan shares a lot of weaknesses and resistances with Nidoking. I think Hitmontop and Blastoise would be better examples.) For supporting Nidoking, Gorebyss and Huntail make excellent partners, as Nidoking becomes virtually unstoppable with a Shell Smash passed to it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Sludge Wave / Fire Blast
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set abuses the power boost from Sheer Force while bypassing Nidoking's relatively low Speed through the use of a Choice Scarf. With the pseudo-Life Orb boost from Sheer Force, Nidoking can use Choice Scarf without fear of a steep drop in power. As with the Special Attacker set, (try not to reference other sets in comments) Earth Power is Nidoking's best STAB option, hitting Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon super effectively. Fire Blast hits Pokemon such as Abomasnow for super effective damage,(remove comma) and does the most damage to Grass-type Pokemon that resist Earth Power, such as Celebi, who resist Earth Power. Sludge Wave can be used over Fire Blast for the double STAB, as it still hits those Grass-type Pokemon super effectively, and the boost in power can compensate somewhat for the reduced coverage. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt form the infamous BoltBeam combo, which is resisted only by Rotom-H.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Nidoking the greatest power along with the Speed to abuse the Choice Scarf. Much like the Special Attacker set, Choice Scarf Nidoking is easily walled by specially defensive Pokemon such as Chansey. Therefore, Pokemon that can easily deal with specially defensive walls(spelling), such as Gallade and Heracross, make excellent partners for Nidoking, as they can clear the field for Nidoking(spelling) to spam its powerful special attacks without worry. Dugtrio makes one of the best teammates for Nidoking, as it can trap and guarantee a KO on these specially defensive Pokemon. Rotom-H makes one of Nidoking's best counters, as it resists all four of its moves. For this reason, Pokemon that can reliably set up Stealth Rock, such as Donphan, work well with Nidoking, minimizing the number of times Rotom-H can switch in and absorb Nidoking's attacks.</p>

    (This is pretty much a carbon copy of the teammates and counters for the other set. I understand that they will be similar, but at least use different Pokemon as examples. Scarf should probably also focus more on walls it has trouble dealing damage to, while the LO attacker should be more concerned with fast attackers with super effective STABs, like Azelf/Mew/Victini/Celebi, which can outspeed and probably OHKO.)

    [Other Options]

    <p>(remove space)Sucker Punch can be used on the Special Attacker set, as,(remove comma) even with no Attack investment and only a neutral nature,(remove comma) Nidoking can do good damage to Pokemon such as Espeon, Victini, and Mew, and even revenge kill them if they are significantly weakened. Rock Slide is also an option, as, even with a low Attack investment, it hits Rotom-H super effectively and receives a boost in power from Sheer Force, giving it respectable power. (Do the calcs for this one. Does it OHKO? How much Attack investment do you need for it to hit harder than Sludge Wave?)</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Nidoking is primarily a special attacker, specially defensive walls such as Chansey can take its hits with ease and KO it with repeated attacks. A strong attacker that outspeeds Nidoking and carries a super effective attack, such as Azelf or Mew, can usually OHKO it. A good example of this is a Pokemon such as Azelf or Mew. Flygon is one of the best checks to Nidoking, as it resists all of Nidoking's common moves outside of Ice Beam and can KO it with Earthquake. Rotom-H is also a strong check to Nidoking, as it can switch in on any of Nidoking's moves besides Sludge Wave and get off a free attack.</p>


    Not bad, but there was a lot of repetition throughout. You mention Chansey three times and Heracross and Gallade twice as teammates to beat her; those are good observations, but Chansey is not the only special wall in the tier, and Heracross and Gallade are not the only Pokemon that beat her, so there's no reason to have the exact same comments for both sets.
  22. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Honko's doing it right

    [​IMG]

    1/2

    Looking at it again though, Modest probably deserves a slash on the scarf set.
  23. Boarbaque

    Boarbaque

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    Fire Punch isn't legal with SF yet.

    Stone Edge isnt boosted by Sheer Force but Rock Slide is.
    Earthquake isnt boosted by Sheer Force but Bulldoze is.
  24. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    GP 2/2
  25. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    Make sure you remove mention of Espeon. Try to add Taunt in Other Options too, and mention that it helps in beating Chansey by keeping from recovering.

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