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Nidoking(QC 2/2 GP 3/3)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Biosci, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    [​IMG]
    We Nidoking right away!!

    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking finds great strength in his Dream World ability, Sheer Force, which not only boosts the power of moves that have secondary effects, but also negates recoil damage from Life Orb when said moves are used. Base 85 Speed isn't the greatest for a sweeper, but with enough investment, it suffices for Nidoking's purposes. To add to this, Nidoking has an amazing special movepool, which includes powerful moves such as Thunderbolt and Ice Beam; one can even use Nidoking on a weather team in order to use moves such as Blizzard and Thunder. However, Nidoking is fairly frail, and will fold to nearly any attack that comes its way. This is huge drawback of using Nidoking, but if you can work around its issues, you will clearly see how much of a monster he can be for your opponent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Sludge Bomb / Flamethrower
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    ability: Sheer Force
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At Level 50, Modest Nidoking has a Special Attack stat of 150. With Sheer Force, STAB, and Life Orb boosting most of his moves, Nidoking is a force to be reckoned with. Earth Power, Nidoking's main STAB move, is put into the first moveslot. Earth Power hits almost everything that isn't up in the air for great damage. Ice Beam is needed so Nidoking can eliminate Dragon-type threats, such as Latios and Garchomp, who easily OHKO him. However, Ice Beam only helps KO these threats when you have either Tailwind or Trick Room up, as otherwise, Latios and Garchomp will outspeed Nidoking. The third slot is reserved for a secondary STAB move, Sludge Bomb; it hits a number of opponents very hard, but lacks coverage due to Nidoking's poor offensive typing. Sludge Bomb can OHKO Ludicolo, another Pokemon that Nidoking doesn't like to be around, as Ludicolo can easily tear through Nidoking Scald or Ice Beam. Flamethrower is also a worthy move for the set, as it hits Pokemon such as Scizor, Abomasnow, and Escavalier for incredible damage. However, its coverage overlaps with Earth Power, which often renders it useless. Protect is just a general staple for nearly every VGC Pokemon: it can help stall, prevent Nidoking from taking damage from Fake Out, or simply allow Nidoking to live for another turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To abuse Sheer Force to its full potential, Life Orb is the item of choice. A Modest nature is recommended for Nidoking, as he misses out on some key KOs otherwise. Sheer Force is obviously the best ability for Nidoking, as it provides his moves with much-needed boosts, and negates Life Orb recoil damage. The EV spread is a simple special sweeper build; it ensures that Nidoking is as fast and strong as possible. In terms of moves, Shadow Ball is an option for coverage against Psychic-type threats, but it struggles to find itself a moveslot among Nidoking's other excellent coverage moves.</p>

    <p>Thunder Wave and Helping Hand support is greatly appreciated; the former allows Nidoking to outspeed naturally faster opponents, while the latter gives him even more power. Cresselia is an excellent teammate, as it can provide this support and set up Trick Room for Nidoking. Steel-type partners are nice, as they are able to sponge most attacks that Nidoking is weak to. Bronzong stands out, as it can also use Hypnosis to cripple an opponent in addition to providing key resistances. Latios and Garchomp are major problems for Nidoking, as they can outspeed and OHKO with Psychic and Earthquake, respectively. Nidoking also doesn't like rain very much, as rain teams tend to include Pokemon that pose threats to him, such as Ludicolo, Politoed, and Kingdra. Some great Pokemon that can help beat rain for Nidoking are Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Ludicolo; as an added bonus, most of them have excellent synergy with Nidoking. Out of these, Scizor is most likely the best choice, as it can beat Latios that don't carry Hidden Power Fire. Latias can be very helpful to Nidoking, as she is able to set up dual screens as well as use Helping Hand; she can also help rid Nidoking of Latios.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Nidoking can definitely make use of a physical set that takes advantage of Head Smash and Sucker Punch, but his physical movepool is too small to abuse Sheer Force properly. If you want more power, you could try and use moves such as Fire Blast, Blizzard, and Thunder, but the accuracy is off-putting. However, Thunder and Blizzard will be perfectly accurate in rain and hail respectively, making them good choices with the right team support. Thunder and Thunderbolt aren't good choices in general though, as they only hit two of the Pokemon commonly seen on rain teams, such as Politoad and Jellicent, for super effective damage. Sludge Wave is a decent STAB spread move, but it requires a Steel-type teammate, as hitting an ally won't be enjoyable. If you're worried about Nidoking getting outsped, a Timid nature can work, but again, he misses out on significant KOs. The same set with a Quiet nature and 0 Speed IVs could work on a Trick Room team, but his base 85 Speed might be too fast. A Choice Scarf can be used to help Nidoking outspeed threats such as Latios and Garchomp, but the significant power drop is discouraging.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As mentioned before, Nidoking has issues with Psychic-types, such as Latios and Cresselia, as most of them can either outspeed and OHKO Nidoking or take a hit and KO him. Rain and sandstorm are problematic weathers for Nidoking, as rain teams include many Water-type Pokemon, who can easily KO Nidoking with rain-boosted STAB attacks, while sandstorm activates the abilities Sand Force and Sand Rush, allowing some Pokemon to take a hit and retaliate full force, or easily outspeed Nidoking and take him out. Again, Latios and Garchomp are major threats to Nidoking, as both of them outspeed and KO. While Abomasnow is normally easily dispatched by Nidoking, Choice Scarf variants are good counters, as they can outspeed and OHKO Nidoking with Blizzard. Nidoking's defenses are not great, so a majority of Pokemon that outspeed him will KO him as well.</p>
  2. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    Ready for QC, have it
  3. Solace

    Solace swing from the chandelier
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    with base 85 speed it could probably go for TR when given a speed iv of 0, which is worth an OO mention.
  4. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    i think sludge bomb / thunderbolt / flamethrower should be move 2. sludge wave only works if you have a very specific teammate. flamethrower is there for scizor and ferrothorn, but has a little overlapping coverage with earth power, so tbolt goes before it. sludge wave and blizzard in oo. they can work, but only with help like bronzong (add to teammates) and abomasnow respectively.

    edit: move timid to oo as well, the power drop costs too many kos
  5. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    Sludge Wave only works with with a steel type Pokemon, so idk if it needs a slash. Also, since Nidoking has this wierd Speed Tier, an EV spread of EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spe helps it outspeed base 80's with a Timid nature, so maybe use that spread instead if using max speed.

    EDIT- also, you contradict youself

    Why would you have Sludge Wave as the 1st Slash in the 2nd Moveslot when you say it lacks general coverage. It also hits weaker most of the time and you need either a steel type Pokemon or Protect every time you use it, and your opponent can eventually predict you.
  6. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    I added it, but Nidoking only gets 81 speed when it has a Quiet nature and 0 speed IV.
    Alright added
    Like Muffinhead said, and I've seen for myself, Nidoking misses a lot of kills it needs with Timid nature. That "contradiction" was taken out so yeah.

    Thanks guys.
  7. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    expand on team options a little bit. add pokemon that can beat latios and/or swift swimmers.

    after that qc 1 / 2
  8. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    Added and Thanks for the check
  9. GARCHOMPZILLA

    GARCHOMPZILLA

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    I'm suprised nobody mentioned shdow ball(or did they?). It gets a powerful 135 power after sheer force, its good against gengar who avoids earth power and laughs at sludge bomb/wave, and it kills pyschic types such as reiniclus (its misspelled I know)ESPECIALLY. If nidoking ever has to go against reuniclus, who are used often to set up trick room, shadow ball is the ONLY move nidoking can use to kill it or at least cripple it immensly before pyschic OHKO's you. Same goes with cresselia, and focus blast might be needed to take down really bulky(sp.def wise) tyranitars or chansey/blissey. I wouldnt use him in sun in addition to rain, sand and hail because most fire types used in sun are faster than nidoking and and can OHKO him with a sun-boosted flamethrower/fire blast (i.e. modest valcorona with flamethrower and ninetales itself with fire blast).
  10. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    the problem with shadow ball is giving up coverage on too many things, oo at best.
  11. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    I'll add Shadow in oo. He doesn't really need Focus Blast to kill many other things. He can easily use Earth Power and KO Tyranitar, Chansey and Blissey wall Nidoking no matter what you do. Plus the low accuracy isn't very appealing.

    I only suggest the weather to make abuse of the moves, and quite frankly a lot of weather is common for VGC, so he might as well take abuse of it.
  12. GARCHOMPZILLA

    GARCHOMPZILLA

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    Ill admit FB isnt reliable, but when i said bulky i meant REALLY bulky, like a certain battle subway tyranitar with rock slide and thunder wave, who doesnt even get 2KO'd from a max sp.atk valcorona's bug buzz. Also it might be a good idea to see if nidoking could go with rash or mild, and then make use of sheer force in physical attacks, or have sucker punch as a last resort to cripple fast pyschic types like latios or alakazam, as while it doesnt get SC boost life orb gives it 104 power to maybe kill alakazam. Also surf is reasonable to help it mix in with rain (though it doesn't really work).
  13. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    Nidoking is just too weak without full investment in either Special Attack or Attack. I did mention before, the physical set in OO with Sucker Punch and Head Smash. Thanks though
  14. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    talked this over with biosci on irc, told him what changes to make, with those done QC 2/2
  15. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    Thanks for that, also this is now ready for GP Checks
  16. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    GP Placeholder.

    The tool I'm using glitched and spat out a rather ugly check, so I'm just going to give you an edited version for you to c/p back in. For that reason and the fact that there were a large amount of fixes here, I'm going to request that this analysis goes through three GP checks.

    Comments are in (bold and parentheses)

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking finds great strength in his Dream World ability, Sheer Force. It not only gives an increase to moves that have secondary effects but also negates recoil damage from Life Orb (Sheer Force does not negate recoil from Head Smash...?). Base 85 Speed isn't the greatest for a sweeper like Nidoking, but it suffices with enough investment. Nidoking has an amazing special movepool, with access to powerful moves such as Thunderbolt and Ice Beam; one can even use Nidoking on a weather team in order to use moves such as Blizzard and Thunder.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Sludge Bomb / Flamethrower
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    ability: Sheer Force
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At Level 50, Modest Nidoking has an essential Special Attack stat of 150. With Sheer Force, STAB, and Life Orb boosting most of the moves, Nidoking is a force to be reckoned with. Earth Power, Nidoking's main STAB move, is put into the first moveslot. Earth Power hits almost everything that isn't up in the air fairly hard. Ice Beam is needed so Nidoking can eliminate Dragon-type threats, such Latios and Garchomp, as they easily OHKO him (If they OHKO and Nidoking is slower, how does Ice Beam help?). The third slot is reserved for a secondary STAB move, Sludge Bomb; it hits some Pokemon very hard, but lacks coverage due to its poor offensive typing. Sludge Bomb can OHKO Ludicolo, another Pokemon that Nidoking doesn't like to be around, as it can OHKO Nidoking as well. Flamethrower is also a worthy move for the set, as it hits for super effective damage against Pokemon such Scizor, Abomasnow, and Escavalier. However, its coverage overlaps with Earth Power's, which may render it useless sometimes. Protect is just a general staple for nearly every VGC Pokemon. It can help stall, prevent Nidoking from taking damage from Fake Out, or simply allow Nidoking to live another turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To take advantage of Sheer Force as much as possible, Life Orb is the item of choice. A Modest nature is recommended for Nidoking, as he misses out on some key KOs otherwise, some of which are desperately needed. Sheer Force is obviously the best ability for Nidoking, as it provides much-needed boosts to its moves and his other abilities are much more inferior. In addition, it negates recoil damage from Life Orb. The EV spread is a simple special sweeper build; it ensures that Nidoking is as fast and strong as possible.</p>

    <p>Thunder Wave and Helping Hand support is greatly appreciated; the former allows Nidoking to outspeed naturally faster opponents, while the latter gives him even more power. Cresselia is an excellent teammate, as it can provide the above and set up Trick Room for Nidoking in the scenario in which he is slower than all of his opponents. A Steel-type partner is nice, as they are able to sponge most attacks that Nidoking is weak to; Bronzong stands out, as it can also use Hypnosis to cripple an opponent. Latios and Garchomp are major problems for Nidoking, as they can outspeed and OHKO with Psychic and Earthquake, respectively. Nidoking also doesn't like rain very much, as it tends to bring out Pokemon that pose threats to him, such as Ludicolo, Politoed, and Kingdra. Some great Pokemon that can help beat rain for Nidoking are Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Ludicolo; as an added bonus, most of them have excellent synergy with Nidoking; out of these, Scizor is most likely the best choice, as it can beat Latios that don't carry Hidden Power Fire. Latias can be very helpful to Nidoking, as she is able to set up dual screens as well as use Helping Hand; she can also help get rid of Latios. Shadow Ball is an option to help with other Psychic-type threats, but it struggles to find itself a moveslot among the other excellent coverage moves.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Nidoking can definitely make use of a physical set that takes advantage of Head Smash, Sucker Punch, and a few other physical moves he gets, but he doesn't have as big of a physical movepool that abuses Sheer Force properly. If you want Nidoking to get more power, you could try and use moves such Fire Blast, Blizzard, and Thunder, but the accuracy may be off-putting. However, Thunder and Blizzard in rain and hail, respectively, will be perfectly accurate, making them a good choice with the right team support. However, Thunder and Thunderbolt aren't the best choices, as they only hit like two of the Pokemon commonly seen on rain teams for super effective damage. Sludge Wave is a decent STAB spread move that Nidoking gets; however, it requires a Steel-type teammate, as hitting an ally won't be enjoyable. If you're worried about Nidoking getting outsped, a Timid nature can work, but again, he misses out on significant KOs if you choose to do so. The same set with a Quiet nature and 0 Speed IVs could work on a Trick Room team, but his base 85 Speed may be considered too fast for use. A Choice Scarf can be used on Nidoking to help with outspeeding threats such Latios or Garchomp.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As mentioned before, Nidoking has issues with Psychic-types, such as Latios and Cresselia, as most of them can either outspeed and OHKO Nidoking or take a hit and KO him. Rain and sand are problematic weathers for Nidoking, as the former brings Water-type Pokemon that can easily KO him with rain-boosted STAB attacks, while the latter activates abilities such as Sand Force and Sand Rush, allowing Pokemon to OHKO him. Again, Latios and Garchomp are major threats to Nidoking, as both of them outspeed and OHKO. While Abomasnow is normally easily dispatched by Nidoking, Choice Scarf variants are pretty good counters, as they can outspeed and OHKO Nidoking with Blizzard.</p>

    really ugly check (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking finds great strength that was given in his Dream World ability of Sheer Force. It not only gives an increase to moves that have secondary effects, but also negates recoil damage from things like Head Smash or even Life Orb. Base 85 Speed isn't the greatest to come off of for a sweeper like Nidoking, but you find to manage most of the time with full investment. Nidoking has an amazing Special Attacking movepool, with access to cool things like Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, or put it on weather abusing team for use of moves like Blizzard and Thunder.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Sludge bomb / Flamethrower
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    ability: Sheer Force
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Modest Nidoking has a Special Attacking stat of 150 at level 50. With Sheer Force, STAB, and Life Orb boosts for most of the moves makes Nidoking a force to be reckoned with. The first slot covers the main Special STAB move it gets is Earth Power. Earth Power hits nearly anything hard that isn't up in the air. Ice Beam is needed so Nidoking can get rid of Dragon-type threats, like Latios and Garchomp, seeing as how they can easily OHKO. The third slot for a STAB move Nidoking can take advantage of, is Sludge Bomb. It can hit very hard against some Pokemon, but finds itself having very little coverage to many others due to poor typing. Sludge Bomb can OHKO Ludicolo, which is something that Nidoking doesn't like to be around due to its ability to OHKO Nidoking. Flamethrower is also a worthy move for set, seeing how it adds super effective coverage against Pokemon like Scizor, Abomasnow, and Escavalier. However, it has over lapping coverage with Earth Power sometimes. Protect is just a general staple for nearly every VGC Pokemon. It can help stall, keep Nidoking from getting Fake Out damage, or just surviving to live another turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To take as much advantage of Sheer Force as possible, Life Orb is the item of choice. A Modest is the nature of choice for Nidoking because otherwise he's not getting many kills he so desperately needs. Sheer Force is obviously the choice ability for Nidoking as it gives him much needed power, at only the cost of side effects of the moves you use. In addition, it takes away recoil damage from Life Orb. The EVs are simple common Special sweeper build, they make it so Nidoking is as fast and strong as possible.</p>

    <p>Thunder Wave and Helping Hand support is appreciated from things like Cresselia. Cresselia could also set up Trick Room for Nidoking when he underspeeds all of the opponents on the field. A Steel-type partner like Bronzong is nice to have because practically every weakness Nidoking has is able to be easily sponged by Bronzong. He can also be very supportive with Hypnosis. Latios tends to be problematic because it can outspeed and hit hard with Psychic to KO. Same with Garchomp with the ability to outspeed and KO with Earthquake. Rain is a weather that typically is unappreciated for Nidoking, as it brings out more Pokemon that he's weak to like Ludicolo, Politoad, and Kingdra. Some great Pokemon to help beat rain for Nidoking would be Scizor, Ferrothorn, or Ludicolo and for the most part all of these Pokemon can usually synergize well with Nidoking. Scizor could be a better choice as is helps beat Latios that don't carry Hidden Power Fire. Latias can be very helpful and supportive to Nidoking by possibly putting up screen support and using Helping Hand. It can also help get rid of Latios as a big threat. Shadow Ball is an option to help with other Psychic-type threats. Though trying to fit it in for coverage on so many other things is very difficult.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Nidoking can definitely make use of a physical set that takes advantage of Head Smash, Sucker Punch, or a few other physical moves he gets. However, Nidoking doesn't have a big physical movepool that abuse Sheer Force properly. If you want Nidoking to get more power at the cost of less accuracy you could try and use moves like Fire Blast, Blizzard, and Thunder. However, Thunder in rain or Blizzard in hail will be 100% accurate making them a somewhat good choice with the right team support. However, Thunder and Thunderbolt aren't the best choices because even in rain, they only hit like 2 of the common rain Pokemon super effectively. Sludge Wave is a decent spread move that Nidoking gets and uses as STAB. Though is requires Steel-type teammates, or else Nidoking isn't doing much damage to your opponent with just that one move. If you're worrying about Nidoking underspeeding other Pokemon, try a Timid nature to help with that. However, Nidoking loses power for many significant kills that a Modest can pull off. Nidoking could possibly work the same above set with a Quiet nature and 0 Speed IV for Trick Room use. Though, Nidoking only gets to a Minimum 81 Speed Stat, which is pretty "slow" for Trick Room use but still has uses. A Choice Scarf variant can be used on Nidoking to help with outspeeding threats like Latios or Garchomp.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Like said earlier, Nidoking has issues with Psychic-types, like Latios and Cresselia. They usually tend to be problems with being able to outspeed or take a hit from Nidoking and KO with a good Psychic-type attack. The weathers that Nidoking has to watch out for is rain and sand. In rain, he finds many Water-type Pokemon that can KO with strong attacks. He finds problems with sand because most abusers of sand get boosts in Attack or Speed giving them and easy KO on Nidoking. Latios and Garchomp bring problems to Latios with being able to outspeed and OHKO most of the time. Choice Scarf Abomasnow is a pretty decent counter due to it being able to outspeed and use Blizzard to OHKO
    in his Dream World ability, Sheer Force. It not only gives an increase to moves that have secondary effects but also negates recoil damage from Life Orb (Sheer Force does not negate recoil from Head Smash...?). Base 85 Speed isn't the greatest for a sweeper like Nidoking, but it suffices with enough investment. Nidoking has an amazing special movepool, with access to powerful moves such as Thunderbolt and Ice Beam; one can even use Nidoking on a weather team in order to use moves such as Blizzard and Thunder.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Sludge Bomb / Flamethrower
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    ability: Sheer Force
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At Level 50, Modest Nidoking has an essential Special Attack stat of 150. With Sheer Force, STAB, and Life Orb boosting most of the moves, Nidoking is a force to be reckoned with. Earth Power, Nidoking's main STAB move, is put into the first moveslot. Earth Power hits almost everything that isn't up in the air fairly hard. Ice Beam is needed so Nidoking can eliminate Dragon-type threats, such Latios and Garchomp, as they easily OHKO him (If they OHKO and Nidoking is slower, how does Ice Beam help?). The third slot is reserved for a secondary STAB move, Sludge Bomb; it hits some Pokemon very hard, but lacks coverage due to its poor offensive typing. Sludge Bomb can OHKO Ludicolo, another Pokemon that Nidoking doesn't like to be around, as it can OHKO Nidoking as well. Flamethrower is also a worthy move for the set, as it hits for super effective damage against Pokemon such Scizor, Abomasnow, and Escavalier. However, its coverage overlaps with Earth Power's, which may render it useless sometimes. Protect is just a general staple for nearly every VGC Pokemon. It can help stall, prevent Nidoking from taking damage from Fake Out, or simply allow Nidoking to live another turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To take advantage of Sheer Force as much as possible, Life Orb is the item of choice. A Modest nature is recommended for Nidoking, as he misses out on some key KOs otherwise, some of which are desperately needed. Sheer Force is obviously the best ability for Nidoking, as it provides much-needed boosts to its moves and his other abilities are much more inferior. In addition, it negates recoil damage from Life Orb. The EV spread is a simple special sweeper build; it ensures that Nidoking is as fast and strong as possible.</p>

    <p>Thunder Wave and Helping Hand support is greatly appreciated; the former allows Nidoking to outspeed naturally faster opponents, while the latter gives him even more power. Cresselia is an excellent teammate, as it can provide the above and set up Trick Room for Nidoking in the scenario in which he is slower than all of his opponents. A Steel-type partner is nice, as they are able to sponge most attacks that Nidoking is weak to; Bronzong stands out, as it can also use Hypnosis to cripple an opponent. Latios and Garchomp are major problems for Nidoking, as they can outspeed and OHKO with Psychic and Earthquake, respectively. Nidoking also doesn't like rain very much, as it tends to bring out Pokemon that pose threats to him, such as Ludicolo, Politoed, and Kingdra. Some great Pokemon that can help beat rain for Nidoking are Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Ludicolo; as an added bonus, most of them have excellent synergy with Nidoking; out of these, Scizor is most likely the best choice, as it can beat Latios that don't carry Hidden Power Fire. Latias can be very helpful to Nidoking, as she is able to set up dual screens as well as use Helping Hand; she can also help get rid of Latios. Shadow Ball is an option to help with other Psychic-type threats, but it struggles to find itself a moveslot among the other excellent coverage moves.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Nidoking can definitely make use of a physical set that takes advantage of Head Smash, Sucker Punch, and a few other physical moves he gets, but he doesn't have as big of a physical movepool that abuses Sheer Force properly. If you want Nidoking to get more power, you could try and use moves such Fire Blast, Blizzard, and Thunder, but the accuracy may be off-putting. However, Thunder and Blizzard in rain and hail, respectively, will be perfectly accurate, making them a good choice with the right team support. However, Thunder and Thunderbolt aren't the best choices, as they only hit like two of the Pokemon commonly seen on rain teams for super effective damage. Sludge Wave is a decent STAB spread move that Nidoking gets; however, it requires a Steel-type teammate, as hitting an ally won't be enjoyable. If you're worried about Nidoking getting outsped, a Timid nature can work, but again, he misses out on significant KOs if you choose to do so. The same set with a Quiet nature and 0 Speed IVs could work on a Trick Room team, but his base 85 Speed may be considered too fast for use. A Choice Scarf can be used on Nidoking to help with outspeeding threats such Latios or Garchomp.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As mentioned before, Nidoking has issues with Psychic-types, such as Latios and Cresselia, as most of them can either outspeed and OHKO Nidoking or take a hit and KO him. Rain and sand are problematic weathers for Nidoking, as the former brings Water-type Pokemon that can easily KO him with rain-boosted STAB attacks, while the latter activates abilities such as Sand Force and Sand Rush, allowing Pokemon to OHKO him. Again, Latios and Garchomp are major threats to Nidoking, as both of them outspeed and OHKO. While Abomasnow is normally easily dispatched by Nidoking, Choice Scarf variants are pretty good counters, as they can outspeed and OHKO Nidoking with Blizzard
    .</p>

    [​IMG]

    GP [1/3]
  17. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    Okay thanks for your check, about your comments. Yes, Sheer Force takes recoil from even Head Smash, as the recoil is the side effect and any side effect becomes null with Sheer Force. To your second comment I added this sentence right after where you commented "However, Ice Beam only helps KO these threats when you have either Tailwind or Trick Room up, then Nidoking can outspeed and KO."

    Thanks again
  18. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking finds great strength in his (Nidoking is a he, so I'm assuming that the pronoun used throughout the analysis will be "he" instead of "it". Make sure any of these that I miss get changed) Dream World ability, Sheer Force. It not only gives an increase to moves that have secondary effects, (comma) but also negates recoil damage from Life Orb. Base 85 Speed isn't the greatest for a sweeper like Nidoking, but he suffices with enough investment. Nidoking has an amazing special movepool, with access to powerful moves such as Thunderbolt and Ice Beam; one can even use Nidoking on a weather team in order to use moves such as Blizzard and Thunder.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Sludge Bomb / Flamethrower
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    ability: Sheer Force
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At Level 50, Modest Nidoking has an essential Special Attack stat of 150. With Sheer Force, STAB, and Life Orb boosting most of his moves, Nidoking is a force to be reckoned with. Earth Power, Nidoking's main STAB move, is put into the first moveslot. Earth Power hits almost everything that isn't up in the air fairly hard. Ice Beam is needed so Nidoking can eliminate Dragon-type threats, such Latios and Garchomp, as they easily OHKO him. However, Ice Beam only helps KO these threats when you have either Tailwind or Trick Room up, then Nidoking can outspeed and KO. The third slot is reserved for a secondary STAB move, Sludge Bomb; it hits some Pokemon very hard, but lacks coverage due to its poor offensive typing. Sludge Bomb can OHKO Ludicolo, another Pokemon that Nidoking doesn't like to be around, as it can OHKO Nidoking in return as well. Flamethrower is also a worthy move for the set, as it hits for super effective damage against Pokemon such Scizor, Abomasnow, and Escavalier. However, its coverage overlaps with Earth Power's, which sometimes may renders it useless sometimes. Protect is just a general staple for nearly every VGC Pokemon: (colon) it can help stall, prevent Nidoking from taking damage from a Fake Out, or simply allow Nidoking to live another turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To take advantage of Sheer Force as much as possible, Life Orb is the item of choice. A Modest nature is recommended for Nidoking, as he misses out on some key KOs otherwise, some of which are desperately needed. Sheer Force is obviously the best ability for Nidoking, as it provides much-needed boosts to his moves and his other abilities are generally much more inferior. In addition, it negates recoil damage from Life Orb. The EV spread is a simple special sweeper build; it ensures that Nidoking is as fast and strong as possible. (A lot of the things said here are just taken directly from the introduction, so I would consider maybe editing those parts out and adding a little more about the set)</p>

    <p>Thunder Wave and Helping Hand support is greatly appreciated; the former allows Nidoking to outspeed naturally faster opponents, while the latter gives him even more power. Cresselia is an excellent teammate, as it can provide the above and set up Trick Room for Nidoking in the scenario in which if he is slower than all of his opponents. A Steel-type partner is nice, as they are able to sponge most attacks that Nidoking is weak to. (period) Bronzong stands out, as it can also use Hypnosis to cripple an opponent in addition to providing those key resistances. Latios and Garchomp are major problems for Nidoking, as they can outspeed and OHKO with Psychic and Earthquake, respectively. Nidoking also doesn't like rain very much, as it tends to bring out Pokemon that pose threats to him, such as Ludicolo, Politoed, and Kingdra. Some great Pokemon that can help beat rain for Nidoking are Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Ludicolo; as an added bonus, most of them have excellent synergy with Nidoking. (period) Out of these, Scizor is most likely the best choice, as it can beat Latios that don't carry Hidden Power Fire. Latias can be very helpful to Nidoking, as she is able to set up dual screens as well as use Helping Hand; she can also help get rid Nidoking of Latios. Shadow Ball is an option to help with other Psychic-type threats, but it struggles to find itself a moveslot among the other excellent coverage moves.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Nidoking can definitely make use of a physical set that takes advantage of Head Smash, Sucker Punch, and a few other physical moves he gets, but he doesn't have as big of a physical movepool that abuses Sheer Force properly. If you want Nidoking to get more power, you could try and use moves such Fire Blast, Blizzard, and Thunder, but the accuracy may be off-putting. However, Thunder and Blizzard in rain and hail, respectively, will be perfectly accurate, making them a good choice with the right team support. However, Thunder and Thunderbolt aren't good the best choices in general, as they only hit like two of the Pokemon commonly seen on rain teams for super effective damage. Sludge Wave is a decent STAB spread move that Nidoking gets, (comma) ; however but, (remove comma) it requires a Steel-type teammate, as hitting an ally won't be enjoyable. If you're worried about Nidoking getting outsped, a Timid nature can work, but again, he misses out on significant KOs if you choose to do so. The same set with a Quiet nature and 0 Speed IVs could work on a Trick Room team, but his base 85 Speed may be considered too fast for use. A Choice Scarf can be used on Nidoking to help with outspeeding threats such Latios or Garchomp, but the significant power drop is discouraging.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As mentioned before, Nidoking has issues with Psychic-types, such as Latios and Cresselia, as most of them can either outspeed and OHKO Nidoking or take a hit and KO him. Rain and sand are problematic weathers for Nidoking, as rain the former brings out Water-type Pokemon that can easily KO him with rain-boosted STAB attacks, while sand activates the abilities such as Sand Force and Sand Rush, allowing Pokemon to outspeed Nidoking and take him out. Again, Latios and Garchomp are major threats to Nidoking, as both of them outspeed and KO. While Abomasnow is normally easily dispatched by Nidoking, Choice Scarf variants are pretty good counters, as they can outspeed and OHKO Nidoking with Blizzard
    . Nidoking's defenses are not great, so a majority of Pokemon that outspeed him will KO him as well.</p>
  19. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    implemented, except for this little bit where you told me to take out "the above and set up" I changed it to "can provide this support and set up" otherwise it sounded like you weren't even making reference to Cresselia as being a supporter with Helping Hand and Thunder Wave.
  20. Shame That

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    Not bad at all, though I'd really like to see those overview changes.

    [​IMG]

    GP 2/3
  21. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    @biosci: that sounds good, glad that it's all sorted out in the end

    shame that, you seem to be following my checks around :p
  22. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    Thanks for the check Shame That. I added some more in the overview about the downsides of Nidoking.
  23. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    do make changes carefully! there were several spacing errors, and strangely, quite a few cases of simply "such" which should have been "such as".

    [​IMG]

    copypastable format - take note of comments inside (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking finds great strength in his Dream World ability, Sheer Force, which not only boosts the power of moves that have secondary effects, but also negates recoil damage from Life Orb when said moves are used. Base 85 Speed isn't the greatest for a sweeper, but with enough investment, it suffices for Nidoking's purposes. To add to this, Nidoking has an amazing special movepool, which includes powerful moves such as Thunderbolt and Ice Beam; one can even use Nidoking on a weather team in order to use moves such as Blizzard and Thunder. However, Nidoking is fairly frail, and will fold to nearly any attack that comes its way. This is huge drawback of using Nidoking, but if you can work around its issues, you will clearly see how much of a monster he can be for your opponent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Sludge Bomb / Flamethrower
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    ability: Sheer Force
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At Level 50, Modest Nidoking has a Special Attack stat of 150. With Sheer Force, STAB, and Life Orb boosting most of his moves, Nidoking is a force to be reckoned with. Earth Power, Nidoking's main STAB move, is put into the first moveslot. Earth Power hits almost everything that isn't up in the air for great damage. Ice Beam is needed so Nidoking can eliminate Dragon-type threats, such as Latios and Garchomp, who easily OHKO him. However, Ice Beam only helps KO these threats when you have either Tailwind or Trick Room up, as otherwise, Latios and Garchomp will outspeed Nidoking. The third slot is reserved for a secondary STAB move, Sludge Bomb; it hits a number of opponents very hard, but lacks coverage due to Nidoking's poor offensive typing. Sludge Bomb can OHKO Ludicolo, another Pokemon that Nidoking doesn't like to be around, as Ludicolo can easily tear through Nidoking with what?. Flamethrower is also a worthy move for the set, as it hits Pokemon such as Scizor, Abomasnow, and Escavalier for incredible damage. However, its coverage overlaps with Earth Power, which often renders it useless. Protect is just a general staple for nearly every VGC Pokemon: it can help stall, prevent Nidoking from taking damage from Fake Out, or simply allow Nidoking to live for another turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To abuse Sheer Force to its full potential, Life Orb is the item of choice. A Modest nature is recommended for Nidoking, as he misses out on some key KOs otherwise, some of which are desperately needed such as? if not, remove this. Sheer Force is obviously the best ability for Nidoking, as it provides his moves with much-needed boosts, and negates Life Orb recoil damage. The EV spread is a simple special sweeper build; it ensures that Nidoking is as fast and strong as possible. In terms of moves, Shadow Ball is an option for coverage against Psychic-type threats, but it struggles to find itself a moveslot among Nidoking's other excellent coverage moves.</p>

    <p>Thunder Wave and Helping Hand support is greatly appreciated; the former allows Nidoking to outspeed naturally faster opponents, while the latter gives him even more power. Cresselia is an excellent teammate, as it can provide this support and set up Trick Room for Nidoking. Steel-type partners are nice, as they are able to sponge most attacks that Nidoking is weak to. Bronzong stands out, as it can also use Hypnosis to cripple an opponent in addition to providing key resistances. Latios and Garchomp are major problems for Nidoking, as they can outspeed and OHKO with Psychic and Earthquake, respectively. Nidoking also doesn't like rain very much, as rain teams tend to include Pokemon that pose threats to him, such as Ludicolo, Politoed, and Kingdra. Some great Pokemon that can help beat rain for Nidoking are Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Ludicolo; as an added bonus, most of them have excellent synergy with Nidoking. Out of these, Scizor is most likely the best choice, as it can beat Latios that don't carry Hidden Power Fire. Latias can be very helpful to Nidoking, as she is able to set up dual screens as well as use Helping Hand; she can also help rid Nidoking of Latios.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Nidoking can definitely make use of a physical set that takes advantage of Head Smash and Sucker Punch, but his physical movepool is too small to abuse Sheer Force properly. If you want more power, you could try and use moves such as Fire Blast, Blizzard, and Thunder, but the accuracy is off-putting. However, Thunder and Blizzard will be perfectly accurate in rain and hail respectively, making them good choices with the right team support. Thunder and Thunderbolt aren't good choices in general though, as they only hit two of the Pokemon commonly seen on rain teams—<name the pokemon here>—for super effective damage. Sludge Wave is a decent STAB spread move, but it requires a Steel-type teammate, as hitting an ally won't be enjoyable. If you're worried about Nidoking getting outsped, a Timid nature can work, but again, he misses out on significant KOs. The same set with a Quiet nature and 0 Speed IVs could work on a Trick Room team, but his base 85 Speed might be too fast. A Choice Scarf can be used to help Nidoking outspeed threats such as Latios and Garchomp, but the significant power drop is discouraging.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As mentioned before, Nidoking has issues with Psychic-types, such as Latios and Cresselia, as most of them can either outspeed and OHKO Nidoking or take a hit and KO him. Rain and sandstorm are problematic weathers for Nidoking, as rain teams include many Water-type Pokemon, who can easily KO Nidoking with rain-boosted STAB attacks, while sandstorm activates the abilities Sand Force and Sand Rush, allowing some Pokemon to take a hit and retaliate full force, or easily outspeed Nidoking and take him out. Again, Latios and Garchomp are major threats to Nidoking, as both of them outspeed and KO. While Abomasnow is normally easily dispatched by Nidoking, Choice Scarf variants are good counters, as they can outspeed and OHKO Nidoking with Blizzard. Nidoking's defenses are not great, so a majority of Pokemon that outspeed him will KO him as well.</p>
  24. Biosci

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    Okay I made changes to the comment that were made. As for the spacing issue, I know I checked it last time and I found no spacing issues before I entered in the post. Idk how this keeps happening =/
  25. Solace

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