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Nidoking (Revamp) [QC 3/2] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jorgen, Mar 27, 2013.

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  1. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking is the quintessential blue-collar Pokemon. It evolves from one of the earliest Pokemon you encounter in RBY, its stats aren't flashy—the best it gets is base 92 Attack—and its typing is a strange Poison / Ground mixture that you wouldn't expect to be great defensively. Regardless of these reasons for humility, though, Nidoking has all the right tools to get the job done as the premier mixed attacker of GSC. For starters, its movepool gives it a fairly strong STAB Earthquake coupled with solid super effective coverage moves for physical walls and Pokemon that resist it. Nidoking's immunities to Toxic and Thunder and its base 85 Speed, which is particularly fast by GSC standards, are also nice advantages that Nidoking totes over other attacking threats. However, that's not all Nidoking has to offer, for if that were the case, it would still be outclassed by Pokemon with flashier stat spreads such as Tyranitar and Dragonite. Access to Lovely Kiss is Nidoking's ace in the hole, allowing it to instantly take one of its chief counters out of the game, something the other mixed sweepers can't do.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Sweeper
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Lovely Kiss
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunder / Thunderbolt
    item: Leftovers

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set allows Nidoking to threaten as wide an array of opponents as possible. STAB Earthquake running off a decent Attack stat is Nidoking's main attacking move, and it does solid damage to most threats. However, it does run short of hitting relevant KO thresholds against certain walls, such as Snorlax, Miltank, and Umbreon; Earthquake will shave off roughly 25-30% of these threats' HP, which is well short of a 3HKO and just short of even a 4HKO after Leftovers. That's where Lovely Kiss comes in. With a well-timed Lovely Kiss, one of these walls can be indefinitely incapacitated, allowing Nidoking to go for the KO itself by spamming Earthquake or permitting a teammate to switch in and start setting up. As for the other two moves, these are for hitting foes that resist or are immune to Earthquake for super effective damage. Ice Beam is a must to 3HKO Zapdos, as otherwise Nidoking cannot touch it even with Lovely Kiss since most Zapdos run Sleep Talk. Ice Beam also allows Nidoking to 3HKO Exeggutor and, when all else fails, to play for the freeze against Miltank. The last moveslot is a bit more flexible, although Thunder is the preferred option because it guarantees a 2HKO against Starmie and Skarmory, can 3HKO Suicune and Vaporeon, and has a 21% paralysis chance, factoring accuracy, to facilitate these KOs. However, Thunderbolt is an option if you don't want to chance a miss against a Cloyster, Skarmory, or weakened Suicune in KO range. However, Nidoking will miss out on the KO thresholds that Thunder achieves, and furthermore it will do more damage to Vaporeon with Earthquake than it would with Thunderbolt.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Nidoking is a bit easier to get to work than other heavy hitters in GSC because of its good Speed stat, access to Lovely Kiss, immunity to Electric moves and Toxic, and defenses that, while not great, are passable. However, just as with any mixed attacker, Nidoking will require a bit of prediction to be able to use appropriately. It should be switching in whenever you anticipate an opponent switching to a Pokemon that does not want to be put to sleep or that cannot afford to take a super effective attack. Being able to double-switch effectively or, alternatively, to predict Thunders from Electric-types to prevent Nidoking from taking damage or status on the switch will go a long way toward keeping Nidoking healthy enough to still pose a threat. To facilitate these double-switches, Nidoking appreciates Rapid Spin support from Starmie, Cloyster, or Forretress to keep Spikes off the field. Spikes support from Cloyster and Forretress can also be helpful to Nidoking, especially since it struggles to KO the likes of Snorlax and Umbreon without such help. However, since Nidoking already has Lovely Kiss to deal with the Pokemon it struggles to outright kill, and because one of the more common switch-ins to Nidoking is Zapdos, Spikes don't help Nidoking as much as you might expect.</p>

    <p>While Nidoking is, for the most part, self-sufficient offense, there are Pokemon that pair well with Nidoking by KOing or weakening its counters. Selfdestruct Snorlax can bait and explode on these threats, in addition to Suicune and Miltank, to make Nidoking's life easier. Exeggutor is a fine partner as well, since it can bait Zapdos and Explode on it to allow Nidoking to aim for a better sleep target with Lovely Kiss. Tyranitar with Rock Slide and Pursuit can help Nidoking chip away at Zapdos to put it in Ice Beam KO range to prevent it from switching in to absorb Lovely Kiss. Tyranitar also helps to weaken Exeggutor so that Nidoking does not have to be concerned with its inability to 2HKO it. Steelix can bait and Explode on Miltank, Suicune, and even Zapdos to make life easier for Nidoking as well.</p>

    <p>Other good partners for Nidoking are those that can capitalize off Nidoking's ability to weaken their counters or put them to sleep. CurseLax generally works well with Nidoking's ability to target Charm Umbreon and opposing CurseLax with Lovely Kiss. Marowak and Quagsire appreciate Nidoking's ability to target opposing Water-types with Lovely Kiss. Cloyster and Machamp can take advantage of Nidoking's ability to target Starmie with Lovely Kiss or Thunder paralysis. Vaporeon can capitalize off Nidoking's ability to weaken Zapdos, Snorlax, and Roar Suicune.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Fire Blast is an attacking option that allows Nidoking to cleanly 2HKO Steelix and Exeggutor while granting it an OHKO against Forretress and a 3HKO against Heracross. However, Fire Blast must go over either Ice Beam, which leaves Nidoking unable to touch Zapdos, or Thunder/Thunderbolt, which leaves Nidoking unable to do as much damage to Water-types, especially Suicune. Using Fire Blast over Thunder/Thunderbolt also makes Nidoking unable to significantly damage Charizard, which, while uncommon, can then threaten to set up Belly Drum and sweep. Counter is an interesting option for surprise KOs. Morning Sun can be used to allow Nidoking to last longer and heal off potential Hidden Powers from Zapdos and Raikou, but it cannot be used with Lovely Kiss. Counter even works against special Hidden Powers in GSC, so it allows Nidoking to bounce back Hidden Powers from Zapdos for major damage, in addition to attacks from Snorlax and Miltank. However, Counter requires careful use to ensure the opponent is definitely in KO range before it is revealed, and ultimately makes Nidoking less effective as a mixed attacker by taking away one of its attacking moveslots.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>RestTalk Suicune, Heracross, and Snorlax are probably the most complete Nidoking counters in existence. All three of these Pokemon can absorb Lovely Kiss and can tank whatever attacks Nidoking can use. Suicune must watch out for the 3HKO from the inaccurate Thunder, Heracross must watch out for the rare Fire Blast 3HKO, and Snorlax, being slower than Nidoking and taking more from Earthquake than the other two counters, must be wary of switching in, especially with Spikes down. Zapdos is also a fine switch-in to Nidoking, although Ice Beam is very common, averages a 3HKO against Zapdos, and, unlike Thunder against Suicune, is 100% accurate. However, unlike the other counters, Zapdos is guaranteed to outspeed Nidoking, is immune to Earthquake and Spikes, and can 3HKO Nidoking with a super effective Hidden Power.</p>

    <p>When Nidoking has used Lovely Kiss, many more options for countering it open up. Suicune and Snorlax without RestTalk can switch in to sponge hits and scare it out. Miltank is a fantastic switch-in when Sleep Clause is active, as Nidoking is slower and cannot penetrate its defenses with its attacks. Miltank can also force Nidoking to switch out with the threat of Body Slam paralysis. However, if Sleep Clause is not active, Miltank balks at the prospect of being put to sleep, since it is then unable to cure its teammates of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is also a solid check that outspeeds Nidoking, gets Recover to shrug off its attacks, and 2HKOes it in return. Starmie is also often common sleep bait to offer against Nidoking on teams without a Sleep Talk user. However, Starmie is 2HKOed by Thunder. Umbreon is slower than Nidoking, which makes switching into Earthquakes difficult at times, but otherwise it is a stellar wall that avoids even being 4HKOed by any of Nidoking's attacks. Umbreon, however, does struggle to threaten Nidoking in return; it can pass Mean Look to another counter that can threaten to KO Nidoking, or it can use Charm to weaken Nidoking's Earthquake to allow an easier switch to another counter. </p>

    <p>Aside from the checks listed above, Sleep Talk Vaporeon also makes a somewhat decent answer to Nidoking. It is slower than Nidoking, is 4HKOed by Earthquake unlike Umbreon and Snorlax, and is even 3HKOed by Thunder, so it is, admittedly, a very shaky check. However, it can absorb Lovely Kiss with a Sleep Talk set and can threaten to 2HKO Nidoking in return. Other slower Pokemon that can nonetheless threaten Nidoking include Quagsire and Porygon2. Unlike Vaporeon, these Pokemon cannot absorb Lovely Kiss, but on the other hand, they are not 3HKOed by any of Nidoking's moves, either. Quagsire gets to guarantee a 2HKO in return with Earthquake, whereas Porygon2 gets access to Recover instead of relying on Rest to stay healthy.</p>

    <p>Other slower Pokemon that struggle to switch into or threaten Nidoking are Forretress and even Blissey. Forretress generally does not have a good way to threaten Nidoking and fears the possible Fire Blast, but otherwise tanks Nidoking with ease and can even attempt to stall it out if it runs the uncommon Rest. Obviously, it wants to switch in only after Nidoking has used Lovely Kiss so that it is not rendered unable to lay Spikes. Blissey, on the other hand, is generally a cleric and so obviously wants to avoid taking a Lovely Kiss, but otherwise avoids being 2HKOed by Earthquake, which permits the use of Softboiled to attempt to stall Nidoking. In addition, Ice Beam can threaten to 3HKO Nidoking while Growl and even the odd Reflect (which cannot be used along with Heal Bell) can make tanking Earthquakes a lot easier.</p>
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yes, Jorgen's back :D

    You pretty much have everything covered, but I would add about the bit on Fire Blast how it scores a solid 2HKO on Exeggutor, which Ice Beam (or Flamethrower) doesn't, not even with Spikes.

    I would also note in OO its access to Dynamic Punch which is probably it's only chance to get past the likes of Snorlax, Umbreon, Blissey, Porygon2, and even Miltank (especially if it's paralyzed by Thunder, etc beforehand). Roar is also OO-worthy in conjunction with Spikes to wear down bulky Water- or Normal-types that try to tank hits from Nidoking.
  3. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    No longer a WiP, I writ this up. I took all of your suggestions into account, Pocket, except for Roar in OO because it's honestly pretty bad.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I trust your judgment, champ

    Worth mentioning two other mons it misses out on - Slowbro & Charizard. I am not sure if Slowbro is too retro to be note-worthy, but being prime set-up bait fro BD Zard is never good if you can help it ;x
    You should break this sentence into two imo
    you truly have a knack for this ;d - APPROVED (1/2)
  5. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Implemented Pocket's suggestions. Slowbro wasn't mentioned in the main set comments, but it was briefly discussed with Pgon2 and Quagsire in Checks & Counters.
  6. Borat

    Borat

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    I really wouldn't call miltank the most "complete" nidoking counter. Miltank is generally the LAST pokemon you'd want to get slept, and if I were playing king, I'd probably fish for the freeze a couple times.

    ST cune is probably #1, followed by ST hera -- FB variants are just so stupidly rare (and for a good reason). Then I'd make a case for miltank, but I think umbreon is in the running too. Either way, miltank is only good against a nidoking "without" LK, which I think is rather unfair, because you can start making cases for Pgon2 and stuff.

    Forretress can pack rest/reflect, in which case I'd give the matchup advantage to forretress.

    Does IB really average a 3hko on Zapdos? For some reason I don't remember that being the case.
  7. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    An attack needs to average 143 damage/turn to 3HKO Zapdos with 383 HP. Ice Beam ranges from 134-157 damage per turn. 143 is actually a little bit on the lower end of that damage range.
  8. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    I don't know if Fire Blast is good enough to be slashed. Maybe it is, but then I think Rest on Marowak is more slashable IMO, but you didn't slash it. (rest marowak has a niche in certain stall teams, but Fire Blast on Nidoking is mostly an inferior Thunder(bolt). Well, I guess it is your choice, I'm yet to find my Nidoking walled by a ST Heracross :P

    I don't know, from my experience, people never let their Miltank get slept. Maybe when they are short of other options, but even in that case, it's usually better to let something else take the sleep and reserve Miltank to check Nidoking later. I think that the Growl Miltank mention is very situational.

    I have always found Vaporeon to be a good Nidoking partner, as it appreciates Nidoking's ability to cripple/wear down Zapdos and Snorlax. They also are walled by a different Suicune set which is nice. Anyway I think we could make a case for every offensive pokemon being a good Nidoking partner then, so ultimately, it's obviously your choice.

    If we are talking about Nidoking's best counter it'd either be ST Snorlax or ST Suicune (also ST Heracross, but it's a less common pokemon). I know Snorlax could be vulnerable to untimely wake ups, but when it comes to contering Nidoking when the threat of LK is there, I think it can't get any better than with these two/three. I'm with Borat that Miltank shouldn't be listed first and listed as the most complete Nidoking counter IMO. Don't forget that LK is what separates Nidoking from other mixsweepers for the most part.
  9. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Updated the analysis taking into account everybody's feedback, especially the bit about Miltank being the best counter. Idk what I was thinking there, I guess I was getting ahead of myself and thinking about what I'd most like to switch in after goading Nidoking into using LK.
  10. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    Approved, not much to say
  11. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    Shouldn't "Nidoking" go between "and" and "will"? Or does that sentence mean that you will end up doing more damage to Vaporeon with Earthquake? In any case replace the "you"s with "Nidoking"s I guess; the sentence just looks a bit weird to me haha.

    Otherwise, consider this Approved (3?/2). Great job as usual ;)
  12. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I edited that sentence Crystal, hopefully it reads better now. If not, GP people can hopefully straighten me out.
  13. sirndpt

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    1/2


    general comments for all four~

    note that things like sleep (usually, as in 'sleep absorber', 'put to sleep'), phaze (also phazing, phazer etc), special/ physical wall etc aren't capitalized

    other than that it was mostly pokegrammar stuff (water-types and electric-types, not waters / electrics; Selfdestruct; xHKOes being the present tense verb and xHKOs being the plural noun) - and very minimal stuff at that, so i did copypastable versions instead.

    your prose was really good, made all this very easy to check -- props :) thanks again for doing so many of these!
  14. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    First GP check implemented. Sorry it took as long as it did, and thanks sirndpt!
  15. Oglemi

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    [Overview]

    <p>Nidoking is the quintessential blue-collar Pokemon. It evolves from one of the earliest Pokemon you encounter in RBY, its stats aren't flashy—the best it gets is base 92 Attack—and its typing is a strange Poison / Ground mixture that you wouldn't expect to be great defensively. Regardless of these reasons for humility, though, Nidoking has all the right tools to get the job done as the premier mixed attacker of GSC. For starters, its movepool gives it a fairly strong STAB Earthquake coupled with solid super effective coverage moves for physical walls and Pokemon that resist it. Nidoking's immunities to Toxic and Thunder and its base 85 Speed, which is particularly fast by GSC standards, are also nice advantages that Nidoking totes over other attacking threats. However, that's not all Nidoking has to offer, for if that were the case, it would still be outclassed by Pokemon with flashier stat spreads such as Tyranitar and Dragonite. Access to Lovely Kiss is Nidoking's ace in the hole, allowing it to instantly take one of its chief counters out of the game, something the other mixed sweepers can't do.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Sweeper
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Lovely Kiss
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunder / Thunderbolt
    item: Leftovers

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set allows Nidoking to threaten as wide an array of opponents as possible. STAB Earthquake running off a decent Attack stat is Nidoking's main attacking move, and it does solid damage to most threats. However, it does run short of hitting relevant KO thresholds against certain walls, such as Snorlax, Miltank, and Umbreon; Earthquake will shave off roughly 25-30% of these threats' HP, which is well short of a 3HKO and just short of even a 4HKO after Leftovers. That's where Lovely Kiss comes in. With a well-timed Lovely Kiss, one of these walls can be indefinitely incapacitated, allowing Nidoking to go for the KO itself by spamming Earthquake or permitting a teammate to switch in and start setting up. As for the other two moves, these are for hitting foes that resist or are immune to Earthquake for super effective damage. Ice Beam is a must to 3HKO Zapdos, as otherwise Nidoking cannot touch it even with Lovely Kiss since most Zapdos run Sleep Talk. Ice Beam also allows Nidoking to 3HKO Exeggutor and, when all else fails, to play for the freeze against Miltank. The last moveslot is a bit more flexible, although Thunder is the preferred option because it guarantees a 2HKO against Starmie and Skarmory, can 3HKO Suicune and Vaporeon, and has a 21% paralysis chance, factoring accuracy, to facilitate these KOs. However, Thunderbolt is an option if you don't want to chance a miss against a Cloyster, Skarmory, or weakened Suicune in KO range. However, Nidoking will miss out on the KO thresholds that Thunder achieves, and furthermore it will do more damage to Vaporeon with Earthquake than it would with Thunderbolt.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Nidoking is a bit easier to get to work than other heavy hitters in GSC because of its good Speed stat, access to Lovely Kiss, immunity to Electric moves and Toxic, and defenses that, while not great, are passable. However, just as with any mixed attacker, Nidoking will require a bit of prediction to be able to use appropriately. It should be switching in whenever you anticipate an opponent switching to a Pokemon that does not want to be put to sleep or that cannot afford to take a super effective attack. Being able to double-switch effectively or, alternatively, to predict Thunders from Electric-types to prevent Nidoking from taking damage or status on the switch will go a long way toward keeping Nidoking healthy enough to still pose a threat. To facilitate these double-switches, Nidoking appreciates Rapid Spin support from Starmie, Cloyster, or Forretress to keep Spikes off the field. Spikes support from Cloyster and Forretress can also be helpful to Nidoking, especially since it struggles to KO the likes of Snorlax and Umbreon without such help. However, since Nidoking already has Lovely Kiss to deal with the Pokemon it struggles to outright kill, and because one of the more common switch-ins to Nidoking is Zapdos, Spikes don't help Nidoking as much as you might expect.</p>

    <p>While Nidoking is, for the most part, self-sufficient offense, there are Pokemon that pair well with Nidoking by KOing or weakening its counters. Selfdestruct Snorlax can bait and explode on these threats, in addition to Suicune and Miltank, to make Nidoking's life easier. Exeggutor is a fine partner as well, since it can bait Zapdos and Explode on it to allow Nidoking to aim for a better sleep target with Lovely Kiss. Tyranitar with Rock Slide and Pursuit can help Nidoking chip away at Zapdos to put it in Ice Beam KO range to prevent it from switching in to absorb Lovely Kiss. Tyranitar also helps to weaken Exeggutor so that Nidoking does not have to be concerned with its inability to 2HKO it. Steelix can bait and Explode on Miltank, Suicune, and even Zapdos to make life easier for Nidoking as well.</p>

    <p>Other good partners for Nidoking are those that can capitalize off Nidoking's ability to weaken their counters or put them to sleep. CurseLax generally works well with Nidoking's ability to target Charm Umbreon and opposing CurseLax with Lovely Kiss. Marowak and Quagsire appreciate Nidoking's ability to target opposing Water-types with Lovely Kiss. Cloyster and Machamp can take advantage of Nidoking's ability to target Starmie with Lovely Kiss or Thunder paralysis. Vaporeon can capitalize off Nidoking's ability to weaken Zapdos, Snorlax, and Roar Suicune.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Fire Blast is an attacking option that allows Nidoking to cleanly 2HKO Steelix and Exeggutor while granting it an OHKO against Forretress and a 3HKO against Heracross. However, Fire Blast must go over either Ice Beam, which leaves Nidoking unable to touch Zapdos, or Thunder/Thunderbolt, which leaves Nidoking unable to do as much damage to Water-types, especially Suicune. Using Fire Blast over Thunder/Thunderbolt also makes Nidoking unable to significantly damage Charizard, which, while uncommon, can then threaten to set up Belly Drum and sweep. Counter is an interesting option for surprise KOs. Counter even works against special Hidden Powers in GSC, so it allows Nidoking to bounce back Hidden Powers from Zapdos for major damage, in addition to attacks from Snorlax and Miltank. However, Counter requires careful use to ensure the opponent is definitely in KO range before it is revealed, and ultimately makes Nidoking less effective as a mixed attacker by taking away one of its attacking moveslots.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>RestTalk Suicune, Heracross, and Snorlax are probably the most complete Nidoking counters in existence. All three of these Pokemon can absorb Lovely Kiss and can tank whatever attacks Nidoking can use. Suicune must watch out for the 3HKO from the inaccurate Thunder, Heracross must watch out for the rare Fire Blast 3HKO, and Snorlax, being slower than Nidoking and taking more from Earthquake than the other two counters, must be wary of switching in, especially with Spikes down. Zapdos is also a fine switch-in to Nidoking, although Ice Beam is very common, averages a 3HKO against Zapdos, and, unlike Thunder against Suicune, is 100% accurate. However, unlike the other counters, Zapdos is guaranteed to outspeed Nidoking, is immune to Earthquake and Spikes, and can 3HKO Nidoking with a super effective Hidden Power.</p>

    <p>When Nidoking has used Lovely Kiss, many more options for countering it open up. Suicune and Snorlax without RestTalk can switch in to sponge hits and scare it out. Miltank is a fantastic switch-in when Sleep Clause is active, as Nidoking is slower and cannot penetrate its defenses with its attacks. Miltank can also force Nidoking to switch out with the threat of Body Slam paralysis. However, if Sleep Clause is not active, Miltank balks at the prospect of being put to sleep, since it is then unable to cure its teammates of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is also a solid check that outspeeds Nidoking, gets Recover to shrug off its attacks, and 2HKOes it in return. Starmie is also often common sleep bait to offer against Nidoking on teams without a Sleep Talk user. However, Starmie is 2HKOed by Thunder. Umbreon is slower than Nidoking, which makes switching into Earthquakes difficult at times, but otherwise it is a stellar wall that avoids even being 4HKOed by any of Nidoking's attacks. Umbreon, however, does struggle to threaten Nidoking in return; it can pass Mean Look to another counter that can threaten to KO Nidoking, or it can use Charm to weaken Nidoking's Earthquake to allow an easier switch to another counter. </p>

    <p>Aside from the checks listed above, Sleep Talk Vaporeon also makes a somewhat decent answer to Nidoking. It is slower than Nidoking, is 4HKOed by Earthquake unlike Umbreon and Snorlax, and is even 3HKOed by Thunder, so it is, admittedly, a very shaky check. However, it can absorb Lovely Kiss with a Sleep Talk set and can threaten to 2HKO Nidoking in return. Other slower Pokemon that can nonetheless threaten Nidoking include Quagsire and Porygon2. Unlike Vaporeon, these Pokemon cannot absorb Lovely Kiss, but on the other hand, they are not 3HKOed by any of Nidoking's moves, either. Quagsire gets to guarantee a 2HKO in return with Earthquake, whereas Porygon2 gets access to Recover instead of relying on Rest to stay healthy.</p>

    <p>Other slower Pokemon that struggle to switch into or threaten Nidoking are Forretress and even Blissey. Forretress generally does not have a good way to threaten Nidoking and fears the possible Fire Blast, but otherwise tanks Nidoking with ease and can even attempt to stall it out if it runs the uncommon Rest. Obviously, it wants to switch in only after Nidoking has used Lovely Kiss so that it is not rendered unable to lay Spikes. Blissey, on the other hand, is generally a cleric and so obviously wants to avoid taking a Lovely Kiss, but otherwise avoids being 2HKOed by Earthquake, which permits the use of Softboiled to attempt to stall Nidoking. In addition, Ice Beam can threaten to 3HKO Nidoking while Growl and even the odd Reflect (which cannot be used along with Heal Bell) can make tanking Earthquakes a lot easier.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  16. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Got the second check implemented. This should be done.
  17. LonelyNess

    LonelyNess PK FLASH
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    Why is there no mention of Morning Sun at all in the analysis when it's pretty much the best option to replace Lovely Kiss on the mixed set?
  18. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Honestly replacing LK is a bad idea but I can toss in a quick mention.

    EDIT: done, Morning Sun is the second OO.
  19. LonelyNess

    LonelyNess PK FLASH
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    To say that Nidoking's only use is for Lovely Kiss is pretty dumb... its mixed attacking set is already great even without sleep, and when you already have a sleeper on your team (Exeggutor for example), Morning Sun is a huge benefit, giving it basically infinite chances to come in and fish for super effective hits / Thunder paras. Morning Sun also makes Zapdos / Raikou into non-threats because neither of them 2HKO with Hidden Power Ice. When you lack recovery one bad switchin and suddenly your Nidoking can no longer come in on them (which is the main reason to use him anyway).
  20. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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