UU Nidoking


Nidoking

QC:
[3/3] - Amaroq / dodmen /Bouff
GP: [1/1] - Kris

[OVERVIEW]

* Nidoking is a powerful wallbreaker with a wide array of coverage options.
* Sheer Force is an amazing ability that boosts Nidoking's wallbreaking abilities.
* A decent defensive typing in Poison / Ground gives Nidoking useful resistances to Fairy and Fighting, as well as an immunity to Electric-type moves.
* Base 85 Speed allows Nidoking to outpace Pokemon in the crowded base 80 Speed tier such as Chandelure and Togekiss.
* Nidoking lacks significant bulk, and its Speed tier is still considered average, which can leave it weak to many fast offensive Pokemon.

[SET]
name: All-out Attacker
move 1: Sludge Wave
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Taunt / Superpower
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Sludge Wave is Nidoking's most powerful STAB move and should always be used over Sludge Bomb, as Sludge Wave has higher Base Power.
* Earth Power provides Nidoking with a secondary STAB move that is also bolstered by Sheer Force, unlike Earthquake.
* Ice Beam provides Nidoking with excellent coverage against the likes of Crobat, Mega Aerodactyl, and Gliscor.
* Taunt allows Nidoking to heavily pressure bulky Pokemon such as Mew, Gastrodon, and Slowbro by disabling their recovery options.
* Superpower allows Nidoking to 2HKO Blissey after it takes Stealth Rock damage, which would otherwise shut down all of its options.
* Sucker Punch can be used in the last slot to give Nidoking a way to hit fast Psychic-type Pokemon like Latias and Alakazam for good damage.
* Thunderbolt is a special coverage option for Nidoking's last move, as it pefectly rounds out Nidoking's neutral coverage against the majority of the metagame, including being able to heavily damage Mantine. However, this leaves it unable to pressure other special walls the way that Taunt can.
* Flamethrower can be a useful option to allow Nidoking to hit Bronzong harder, threaten Magnet Rise Klefki, and OHKO Scizor.

Set Details
========

* Maximum investment in Special Attack and Speed maximizes Nidoking's offensive presence.
* Life Orb is Nidoking's item of choice to bolster the Base Power of its attacks.
* Sheer Force should always be Nidoking's ability, as the boost stacks in conjunction with Life Orb with the added benefit of negating Life Orb recoil from Sheer Force-boosted attacks.
* A Timid nature ensures that Nidoking will outspeed non-Choice Scarf variants of Pokemon like Scizor, Togekiss, Volcanion, Chandelure, and Magneton.
* A Naive nature should be used in conjunction with Superpower or Sucker Punch to increase their damage output. 12 Attack EVs with also guarantee that Nidoking OHKOes Alakazam with Sucker Punch.

Usage Tips
========

* The main reason to use Nidoking over its counterpart Nidoqueen is the higher Speed stat. As such, teams that need to outspeed Pokemon like Togekiss or Volcanion should use Nidoking.
* Nidoking should be used to deal heavy damage to the foe as often as possible, so you should predict aggressively to attempt to bring Nidoking in, as well as using moves such as U-turn and Volt Switch.
* Nidoking needs to be played with a fair amount of aggression to allow it the most room to open holes in the foe's Defense, so making good predictions while using Nidoking will help bring out its full potential.
* Nidoking lacks the ability to invest into bulk as Nidoqueen does. As such, avoid bringing Nidoking directly in on strong attacks as often as possible.
* Be sure to account for the slight lack of power Nidoking has compared to Nidoqueen. Nidoking absolutely needs the increased Speed and cannot afford to run a Modest nature.

Team Options
========

* Nidoking makes a good partner for many offensive Water- and Flying-types that appreciate its ability to stop Electric-type moves while not being overly passive like Hippowdon, such as Mega Aerodactyl and Starmie. Nidoking must be wary of switching directly into most Electric-types, as they commonly carry Hidden Power Ice, which can cleanly 2HKO Nidoking.
* Volt Switch and U-turn users such as Hydreigon and Raikou make good teammates for Nidoking, as they can utilize those moves to give Nidoking more free switches.
* Dragon-types like Hydreigon, Latias, and Haxorus make good teammates for Nidoking, as they all appreciate Nidoking's ability to beat Fairy- and Steel-types to allow them to spam their powerful Dragon-type moves.
* Pokemon that resist or are immune to Ground such as Latias and Togekiss cover Nidoking's Ground-type weakness well.
* Teammates like Scizor and Bisharp can alleviate the pressure that powerful Psychic-types like Alakazam and Latias apply to Nidoking.
* Pokemon such as Celebi, Gastrodon, and Volcanion make for good checks to Water-types that threaten Nidoking with their strong Water-type moves like Keldeo and Starmie.
* As Nidoking causes the bulkiest of special walls such as Mew and Blissey to switch in, powerful physically oriented wallbreakers such as Bisharp and Scizor can make good partners for Nidoking.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Nidoking can use Focus Blast to hit bulky Normal-types such as Porygon2 and Snorlax more consistently, as well as scoring a significant OHKO on Hydreigon and Bewear, which its other coverage moves are unable to do.
* Nidoking can provide Stealth Rock for a team, but it should only be done if absolutely necessary, as Nidoking is hurt by losing out on a coverage move.
* Shadow Ball is an option that Nidoking can use to compress its super effective coverage against Psychic-types such as Slowbro, Cresselia, and Bronzong.
* Poison Jab is a decently powerful option that Nidoking can use to heavily damage Clefable that have acquired multiple Calm Mind boosts.
* Choice Scarf is an alternative item that Nidoking can use to surprise many common offensive checks to it, such as Krookodile and Starmie. However, Nidoking loses a large amount of power without Life Orb, so Choice Scarf should only arise as an option when absolutely necessary for a team.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Pokemon**: There are a myriad of fast offensive Pokemon that can outpace Nidoking's somewhat average base 85 Speed and threaten to hit it with strong attacks, such as Hydreigon, Zygarde-10%, and Celebi.

**Psychic-types**: Fast offensive Psychic-types such as Latias and Alakazam are extremely threatening to Nidoking, as they possess the ability to easily pick Nidoking off with super effective Psychic-type moves.

**Ground-types**: Nidoking's Poison typing leaves it susceptible to strong Ground-type moves, allowing Pokemon like Krookodile and Zygarde-10% to easily threaten it.

**Water-types**: Faster Water-type attackers such as Keldeo and Starmie threaten to easily take Nidoking out with super effective Water-type moves.

**Special Walls**: Extremely bulky special walls such as Blissey, Porygon2, Bronzong, and Snorlax all take pitiful damage from Nidoking's attacks, regardless of the varying coverage. However, Bronzong must be wary of taking a large amount of damage from Flamethrower, while Blissey must be wary of switching into Superpower.

**Cresselia**: Cresselia is the most effective check to Nidoking, as it can threaten it with super effective Psychic STAB and can take repeated attacks from any Nidoking variant throughout a match.
 
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Why does no one use physical nidoking with like poison jab, earthquake, thunder punch, and sucker punch? It seems like it would be more powerful. Thunder punch and poison jab are both boosted by sheer force and its similarly useful coverage. It's attack stat is pretty high so I was just wondering.
 

Lord Wallace

Hentai Connoiseur
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Why does no one use physical nidoking with like poison jab, earthquake, thunder punch, and sucker punch? It seems like it would be more powerful. Thunder punch and poison jab are both boosted by sheer force and its similarly useful coverage. It's attack stat is pretty high so I was just wondering.
Because it generally has a better special movepool with more moves of higher base power that also get the sheer force boost. That's the simple reason why special >>>> physical Nidoking. Also Intimidate and Burns don't bother Special King
 
I actually just ran the calculations and Poison Jab and Earthquake with max attack are both like 1% more powerful than Sludge Wave and Earth Power with max special attack. Also, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, and Fire Punch with max attack are exactly as powerful as Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Flamethrower with max special attack, respectively. So, it seems like its really more of a question of what category of attack you need. It's so similar that you can really just choose. Personally, I'll be using mine to break special walls like Mantine and Blissey, so I'll go with a physical set. Also, sucker punch is a perk on physical, but like you said, burn and intimidate are a problem, too. I just really don't think special is any better than physical. It's really amazing how versatile Nidoking has the potential to be.
 
I actually just ran the calculations and Poison Jab and Earthquake with max attack are both like 1% more powerful than Sludge Wave and Earth Power with max special attack.
252 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 179-212 (52.4 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-222 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 187-222 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 199-234 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, and Fire Punch with max attack are exactly as powerful as Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Flamethrower with max special attack, respectively.
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 117-139 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 117-139 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 117-139 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 125-148 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 125-148 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 125-148 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


I don't know what kind of calculator YOU'RE using, but Special Nidoking is outright more powerful than physical Nidoking in every regard. The only advantage you gain from max attack is a stronger Sucker Punch if you decide to run it.
 
252 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 179-212 (52.4 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-222 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 187-222 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 199-234 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 117-139 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 117-139 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 117-139 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 125-148 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 125-148 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 125-148 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


I don't know what kind of calculator YOU'RE using, but Special Nidoking is outright more powerful than physical Nidoking in every regard. The only advantage you gain from max attack is a stronger Sucker Punch if you decide to run it.
Sorry man, you're right! I tried to do it on my own, but it's good to know that Mew is a good solid average to do calculations with. I didn't know what mon to use for the other side of the calculation. However, I think the damage differences are still relatively small and that physical Nidoking could be listed in OO for dealing with special walls like Clefable and Mantine. It can be pretty useful for that.
 

Amaroq

Cover me.
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Overview

Mention that Nidoking's access to Superpower enables it to break through targets like Blissey more effectively than Nidoqueen.

All-Out Attacker

The set should look like this:

name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Sludge Wave
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Taunt / Superpower
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Taunt and Superpower allow Nidoking to pressure bulkier builds much more effectively than Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, and Sucker Punch should all receive bullet points in the Moves section, but no slashes on the main set. Add a bullet point in Set Details explaining that a Naive nature should be used with Superpower.

Elaborate more on how to use Nidoking in Usage Tips. Right now, all the Usage Tips section does is explain how Nidoking differs from Nidoqueen. Explain how Nidoking wallbreaks in more detail.

In Team Options, include a bullet point for Pokemon that use U-turn and Volt Switch and provide examples. Add a bullet point for physical wallbreakers that can take advantage of Nidoking's tendency to attract special walls.

Other Options

Other Options should be revamped in accordance with the changes to the main set. Move the Taunt, Superpower, and Sucker Punch bullet points to the main set as discussed previously. Add bullet points for Focus Blast and Shadow Ball. Focus Blast should be above Stealth Rock. Shadow Ball should be above Choice Scarf.

Checks and Counters

Add a section for Ground-types and move Krookodile there. Add a section for Water-types and move Keldeo there. Add a section for Psychic-types and move Alakazam and Latias there. Keep the Faster Pokemon section and include more examples there. Make Blissey the first Pokemon mentioned in the Special Walls section.

Let me know when this is implemented and I'll look over it again.

Edit: QC 1/3.
 
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Specify some Taunt targets in Moves: Mew, Suicune, Slowbro, Gastrodon, and Mandibuzz. Also mention that Stealth Rock is required to guarantee the 2HKO on Blissey with Superpower.

Nice work, 2/3
 
This is a good analysis overall, so I don't have a lot to add.

Mention Nidoking's Electric immunity in the defensive typing part in the Overview.

I feel like the speed tier doesn't really hinder its defensive capabilities, more like it just allows it to be outsped by a lot of offensive Pokemon, so adjust the point to reflect that.

A Naive nature should be used with Superpower. Also note that Blissey is only guaranteed to be 2HKOed if it takes Stealth Rock damage prior to Superpower.
12 Attack EVs with a Naive Nature should be used to guarantee the OHKO on Alakazam.

Move these things to Set Details, fits more in there, barring the Superpower + SR part.


QC 3/3, but again pls space out ur C&C
 

dhelmise

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[OVERVIEW]
(add blank line)
* Nidoking is a powerful wallbreaker with a wide array of coverage options.
* Sheer Force is an amazing ability that boosts Nidoking's wallbreaking abilities.
* A decent defensive typing in Poison (space) / (space) Ground give gives Nidoking useful resistances to Fairy, (RC) and Fighting, and as well as an immunity to Electric-type moves.
* Base 85 Speed allows Nidoking to outpace Pokemon in the crowded base 80 Speed tier such as Chandelure or and Togekiss.
* Nidoking lacks significant bulk, (AC) and 85 its Speed tier is still considered an average Speed tier, which can leave it weak to many fast offensive Pokemon.

[SET]
name: All-out Attacker
move 1: Sludge Wave
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Taunt / Superpower
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Sludge Wave is Nidoking's most powerful STAB move and should always be used over Sludge Bomb, as Sludge Wave has higher Base Power but both secondary poison effects are removed by Sheer Force.
* Earth Power provides Nidoking with a secondary STAB move that is also bolstered by Sheer Force, as Earthquake is not boosted by the ability unlike Earthquake.
* Ice Beam provides Nidoking with excellent coverage against the likes of Crobat, Mega Aerodactyl, and Gliscor.
* Taunt allows Nidoking to heavily pressure bulky Pokemon such as Mew, Gastrodon, and Slowbro by disabling their recovery options.
* Superpower allows Nidoking to 2HKO Blissey after it takes Stealth Rock damage, which would otherwise shut down all of Nidoking's its options. Note that Blissey is only guaranteed to be 2HKOed if it takes Stealth Rock damage prior to Superpower. (RC)
* Sucker Punch can be used in the last slot to give Nidoking a way to hit fast Psychic-type Pokemon like Laitas Latias and Alakazam for good damage.
* Thunderbolt is a special coverage option for Nidoking's last move, as it pefectly rounds out Nidoking's neutral coverage against the majority of the metagame, including being able to heavily damage Mantine. However, this leaves it unable to pressure other special walls the way that Taunt can.
* Flamethrower can be a useful option to allow Nidoking to hit Bronzong harder, threaten Magnet Rise variants of Klefki, and OHKO Scizor.

Set Details
========

* Maximum investment in Special Attack and Speed maximizes Nidoking's offensive presence.
* Life Orb is Nidoking's item of choice to bolster the Base Power of its attacks.
* Sheer Force should always be Nidoking's ability, as the boost stacks in conjunction with Life Orb with the added benefit of negating Life Orb recoil damage from Sheer Force-boosted attacks.
* A Timid nature ensures that Nidoking will outspeed non-Choice Scarf variants of Pokemon like Scizor, Togekiss, Volcanion, Chandelure, and Magneton.
* A Naive nature should be used in conjunction with Superpower or Sucker Punch to increase their damage output. 12 Attack EVs with also guarantee that Nidoking OHKOs OHKOes Alakazam with Sucker Punch.

Usage Tips
========

* The main reason to use Nidoking over its counterpart Nidoqueen is the higher Speed stat. As such, teams that need to outspeed such Pokemon as like Togekiss or Volcanion should use Nidoking.
* Nidoking should be used to deal heavy damage to the opponent foe as often as possible, so it should be attempted you should predict aggressively to attempt to bring Nidoking in with agressive predictions, as well as using moves such as U-turn and Volt Switch.
* Nidoking needs to be played with a fair amount of aggression to allow it the most room to open holes in the opponent's foe's Defense, so making good predictions while using Nidoking will help bring out its full potential.
* Nidoking lacks the ability to invest into bulk as Nidoqueen does. As such, avoid bringing Nidoking directly in on strong attacks as often as possible.
* Be sure to account for the slight lack of power Nidoking has compared to Nidoqueen. Nidoking absolutely needs the increased Speed and cannot afford to run a Modest nature.

Team Options
========

* Nidoking makes a good partner for many offensive Water- and Flying-types that appreciate its ability to stop Electric-type moves while not being overly passive like Hippowdon, (AC) such as Mega Aerodactyl and Starmie, (RC) that appreciate Nidoking being able to stop Electric-type moves while not being overly passive likes Hippowdon. Nidoking must be wary of switching directly into most Electric-types, as they commonly carry Hidden Power Ice, (AC) which that can cleanly 2HKO Nidoking.
* Volt Switch and U-turn users such as Hydreigon and Raikou make good teammates for Nidoking, as they can utilize these those moves to give Nidoking more free switch ins switches.
* Dragon-types like Hydreigon, Latias, and Haxorus make good teammates for Nidoking, (AC) as they all appreciate Nidoking's ability to beat Fairy- and Steel-types to allow them to spam their powerful Dragon-type moves.
* (space) Pokemon that resist or are immune to Ground such as Latias and Togekiss cover Nidoking's Ground-type weakness well.
* Teammates like Scizor and Bisharp can alleviate the pressure that poweful powerful Psychic-types like Alakazam and Latias apply to Nidoking.
* Pokemon such as Celebi, Gastrodon, and Volcanion make for good checks to Water-types that threaten Nidoking with their strong Water-type moves like Keldeo or and Starmie that threaten Nidoking with strong Water-type moves.
* As Nidoking invites causes the bulkiest of special walls such as Mew and Blissey to switch in, powerful physically oriented (RH) wallbreakers such as Bisharp and Scizor can make good partners for Nidoking.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Nidoking can use Focus Blast to hit bulky Normal-types such as Porygon2 and Snorlax more consistently, as well as can score scoring a significant OHKO on Hydreigon and Bewear, which its other coverage moves are unable to do.
* Nidoking can provide Stealth Rock for a team, but it should only be done if absolutely necessary, as Nidoking is hurt by losing out on a coverage move.
* Shadow Ball is an option that Nidoking can use to compress its super effective coverage against Psychic-types such as Slowbro, Cresselia, and Bronzong.
* Poison Jab is a decently powerful option that Nidoking can use to heavily damage Clefable that have acquired multiple Calm Mind boosts.
* Choice Scarf is an alternative item that Nidoking can use to surprise many common offensive checks to it, such as Krookodile and Starmie. However, Nidoking loses a large amount of power without Life Orb, so Choice Scarf should only arise as an option when absolutely necessary for a team.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Pokemon**: There are a myriad of fast offensive Pokemon that can outpace Nidoking's somewhat average base 85 Speed and threaten to hit it with strong attacks, such as Hydreigon, Zygarde-10%, and Celebi.

**Psychic-types**: Fast offensive Psychic-types such as Latias and Alakazam are extremely threatening to Nidoking, as they posses possess the ability to easily pick Nidoking off with super effective Psychic-type moves.

**Ground-types**: Nidoking's Poison typing leaves it susceptible to strong Ground-type moves, allowing Pokemon like Krookodile and Zygarde-10% to easily threaten it.
(add blank line)
**Water-types**: Faster Water-type attackers such as Keldeo and Starmie threaten to easily take Nidoking out with super effective Water-type moves.

**Special Walls**: Extremely bulky special walls such as Blissey, Porygon2, Bronzong, or and Snorlax all take pitiful damage from Nidoking's attacks, regardless of the varying coverage. However, Bronzong must be wary of taking a large amount of damage from Flamethrower, while Blissey must be wary of switching into Superpower.

**Cresselia**: Cresselia is the most effective check to Nidoking, as it can threaten it with super effective Psychic STAB and can take repeated attacks from any Nidoking variant throughout a match.
GP 1/1
 

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