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Ninetales (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by zdrup15, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Credits to Rhys DeAnno for getting this past QC!

    GP Approvals: Fatecrashers and Zystral

    [Overview]

    <p>Though Ninetales is an average Pokemon in many respects, its access to the Drought ability gives it an important role in OU play. Drought is what allows Ninetales to support its entire team with perpetual sun and somewhat patch up its previously lackluster offense and its rather poor defensive typing. Ninetales will take a starring role on any team wishing to exploit the sunlight, and is even quite useful on less weather-centered teams for its ability to remove the more ubiquitous sand and rain from the battlefield.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hypnosis / Protect
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    Nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set sacrifices Ninetales's offensive capabilities to improve efforts to keep it alive. Ninetales's poor defensive typing leaves it weak to both parts of the EdgeQuake combination, making efforts at significant physical defensiveness shaky indeed, but with Will-O-Wisp support Ninetales can at least take neutral physical hits fairly well. Ninetales fares much better on the special side, with its Water weakness negated by Drought and its lack of vulnerabilities to other common special attacking types.</p>

    <p>Flamethrower still has decent power under the sun with no investment, and the given Speed EVs allow Ninetales to reliably revenge kill Excadrill. Will-O-Wisp lets Ninetales harass the many bulky Fire resists that switch into it and allows it to punish Tyranitar for starting a sandstorm and forcing Ninetales out. Substitute eases prediction for Ninetales, letting it burn Tyranitar or others safely as its Substitute is broken. Substitute also allows Ninetales to deal with Balloon Heatran more safely, managing a 3HKO with Hidden Power Fighting after Stealth Rock. Hidden Power Fighting also gives Ninetales an attack to damage Tyranitar with in an emergency, but it is usually only suitable for finishing off an already-weakened one.</p>

    <p>One may choose to use Hypnosis to shut down the many Pokemon that would otherwise wall Ninetales, but its high miss rate and the status conflict with Will-O-Wisp makes it a dubious option. Protect is another option on this set in the fourth slot to facilitate stalling with Substitutes and accumulating burn damage on the enemy while healing Ninetales with Leftovers. Beware that Protect is dangerous to use when a weather inducer has switched into Ninetales, because if they switch out on Protect, Ninetales may be left facing a weather sweeper with its sweeping weather up. With Protect and Will-O-Wisp Ninetales is completely unable to touch Fire-types, meaning Flash Fire users are free to switch in to set up or try to catch boosts. Ninetales can use Toxic with Protect instead and only be entirely walled by Heatran, but it will have more trouble with physical attackers, especially Tyranitar, if it chooses this option.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Chesto Berry can be used with Rest in lieu of Substitute to get some immediate recovery for Ninetales to frustrate an opponent who is close to finishing it off. Since weather inducers predictably switch right into Ninetales upon its appearance, Ninetales will have many chances to use Rest safely and heal up. Energy Ball can be used in the fourth slot to harass bulky Waters and revenge kill Rain Dance-supported Kabutops and Omastar, but is generally less useful due to the this set's lack of offensive power. The Special Defense EVs could be put into Defense or Special Attack instead, should you want your Ninetales to take physical attacks better or hit a bit harder. In particular, if you fear Excadrill with some HP investment, or wish to 3HKO Heatran without Stealth Rock up, then you would be well advised to put those EVs into Special Attack.</p>

    <p>This Ninetales is especially suited to selflessly supporting sun sweepers, especially ones that can damage other weather inducers for switching in. Since Ninetales lacks the power to punish other weather inducers itself, it relies on entry hazards support to limit their switches, wearing them down over the course of the match. Conversely, its Leftovers healing and more defensive EV spread make it somewhat better at dealing with hazards than the other sets, and it is not as dependent on Rapid Spin or Wish support. Teammates with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to wake it up from Rests are especially helpful. Roserade and Blissey deserve special mention for the ability to both wake up Ninetales and lay Spikes and Stealth Rock respectively to sabotage other weather inducers.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground / Hypnosis
    Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    Nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though it sports a mediocre Special Attack stat of 81, Ninetales is well suited to an offensive set due to the power of its Fire Blast in the sunshine. Offensive Ninetales can land powerful hits on many common tanks with Fire Blast: it is almost certain to OHKO 252/0 Gliscor, and it can manage 120/136 Conkeldurr as well with a layer of Spikes. With a Life Orb hastening Ninetales's death however, it might be unwise to use this set as the lynchpin of a heavily sun-dependent team; this version of Ninetales tends to be more useful individually, and does well supporting weather-neutral teams by overriding rain and sand while also acting as a decent artillery piece.</p>

    <p>Though the presence of such an overwhelming move such as sun-boosted Fire Blast makes coverage rather redundant in many situations, weather inducers such as Tyranitar and Politoed are able to ruin Ninetales's fun by switching in and taking the resisted Fire Blast as they change the weather. Energy Ball can batter both of them for respectable damage, and Will-O-Wisp can threaten to cripple Tyranitar on the switch or at least mitigate the impressive bulk of Politoed and Hippowdon. Hidden Power Fighting can 2HKO Balloon Heatran after Stealth Rock and at least wound Tyranitar, though one might use Hidden Power Ground instead if you wish to Speed tie Jirachi and other Ninetales or fear being walled by Chandelure. Hypnosis is an option to cripple durable special attackers, such as Latias, who like to switch into Ninetales, but if you use it over a Hidden Power then this low accuracy move will be Ninetales's only option against Heatran.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A player wishing to be a bit more conservative with Ninetales can run Leftovers on this set, but Ninetales will struggle to cripple tanks and get important KOs. In particular, Hidden Power Fighting no longer has a chance to even 2HKO Heatran, so Ninetales must be careful lest it grants Heatran a possible Flash Fire boost on the switch. When using Leftovers, the consistency of Flamethrower becomes much more attractive than before, because Ninetales will miss many important OHKOs anyway.</p>

    <p>A number of dangerous sun sweepers such as Venusaur and Shiftry are supported by Drought, but the less obvious advantage of negating both rain and sand along with the general individual competence of this set allows Ninetales to partner well with weather-neutral Pokemon. Fast Scarfers, Dragon Dance sweepers, and Agility users especially appreciate this weather-cancelling effect as it prevents them from being easily revenged by Excadrill. With a Life Orb, Ninetales will die quickly and appreciates Magic Bounce, Rapid Spin, and Wish support even more than usual.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Overheat / Fire Blast
    move 2: Energy Ball
    move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
    move 4: Flamethrower / Hypnosis
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Drought
    Nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Specs Ninetales should be played aggressively, predicting weather inducer switch-ins and using the appropriate move to damage them. Ninetales does well revenging slower Pokemon, threatening them with powerful Fire moves and tempting the opponent to predict and send in a weather inducer. Be wary though, since if Ninetales makes a kill with a Fire move it can easily be trapped and clobbered by Pursuit Tyranitar for large amounts of damage or even eliminated by Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>Drought, STAB, and Choice Specs together power up Ninetales's Fire attacks to nigh-unbelievable levels, making the Specs set a fearsome force. Overheat and Energy Ball are the bread and butter of the set, with Overheat threatening massive damage should the opponent not send in a resist, and Energy Ball threatening many of those resists in turn. Specs Ninetales boasts some impressive OHKOs with Overheat, such as Reuniclus, all but the very specially-bulkiest versions of Conkeldurr, and even an outside shot at Salamence after Stealth Rock damage. Hidden Power Fighting is especially good for taking pieces out of Tyranitar, but requires an imperfect Speed IV and Ninetales will lose ties with other base 100 Speed Pokemon. Hidden Power Ground on the other hand allows a perfect Speed IV but is generally less useful and can cause difficulties considering the ubiquity of Air Balloons on many Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Though Choiced Hypnosis may seem questionable, on Ninetales specifically it can be quite useful; it allows Ninetales to cripple bulky Dragons such as Latias on the switch, who would otherwise counter Ninetales with impunity and set up on it. Fire Blast can be used instead of Overheat with Hypnosis if you want a repeatable and consistent Fire attack, but shouldn't be used with Flamethrower for obvious reasons.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Will-O-Wisp is usually Ninetales's best support move, but it obviously has issues on the Choice set. Even so, it can be useful for wearing down specially-defensive Tyranitar, who Ninetales only has a chance to 2HKO with HP Fighting with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Dark Pulse might seem useful for threatening Latios and Latias, but Overheat does almost as much damage in the sun, and Ninetales is immediately threatened out anyway, making Dark Pulse superfluous.</p>

    <p>Because Specs Ninetales is both easy to trap, and requires great prediction to use effectively, a team dependent on sunlight should pack a reserve Sunny Day user or two while using this Ninetales. Sunny Day Bronzong resists both Rock and Ground and is an effective counter for many sand sweepers as well. On the other hand, Chansey and Blissey with Sunny Day are very good at reining in rain teams and might be able to occasionally pass Ninetales a Wish in spite of poor synergy. Sunny Day Jirachi has a problematic Fire weakness exacerbated by the sun as well as a Ground weakness sabotaging any synergy with Ninetales, but deserves consideration due to its good bulk and ability to threaten Tyranitar.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Drought
    Nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Nasty Plot is the ace up Ninetales's sleeve, and this set is well-suited for surprising incoming weather inducers. With hazard support, +2 Ninetales has a good chance of OHKOing Hippowdon, Politoed, and Tyranitar with Fire Blast, Energy Ball, and Hidden Power Fighting respectively, though it will be unable to deal with specially-bulky versions of Tyranitar or Politoed. If Ninetales has the weather under its sole control, then +2 Fire Blast will be quite powerful indeed, and will likely OHKO Latios after Stealth Rock, as well as 2HKO Wish Blissey.</p>

    <p>This set experiences problems when the opposing weather inducer immediately switches out to a resisting, faster Pokemon, and some very dangerous prediction with Fire Blast may be required. For example, if Tyranitar switches into Nasty Plot and Ninetales uses Hidden Power in response, Latios could switch into it taking minimal damage and threaten Ninetales out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>While Hidden Power Fighting is strongly preferred for the increased damage on Tyranitar, Hidden Power Ground is an acceptable alternative if you wish to tie base 100 Speed Pokemon. While it's tempting to use a Modest nature to put the hurt on specially-defensive weather inducers, it is unwise to do so because a Modest nature allows Jolly Excadrill to outspeed and easily OHKO Ninetales even in the sun.</p>

    <p>Because of the shaky nature of Ninetales's KOs in a metagame infested with specially-defensive Tyranitar and Politoed, heavy hazard support is a virtual requirement for this set. A Wobbuffet to eliminate common fast Dragon switch-ins such as Specs Latios is also useful, as these foes will be able to switch into boosted attacks aimed at weather abusers fairly easily and threaten Ninetales out with OHKOs. Wobbuffet can also trap Scarf versions of Tyranitar and Politoed, which avoid taking boosted attacks by outspeeding Ninetales.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Psyshock seems tempting but is actually fairly useless, as Fire Blast hits even targets like Blissey and Conkeldurr much harder in the sun. Dark Pulse is theoretically available as a Dream World move, and can be paired with Hidden Power Fighting if you desire coverage for Chandelure, but is otherwise underwhelming. Solarbeam is a more powerful alternative to Energy Ball, but Tyranitar, Politoed, and Hippowdon are all very important targets, and, if they switch in while Ninetales starts to Solarbeam, it will be trapped for a turn and possibly OHKOed by any of them. Though Solarbeam is useful once the enemy weather inducer is eliminated, this often doesn't happen until late in the match, and is all the more difficult to achieve without Energy Ball.</p>

    <p>Other setup moves are available to Ninetales as well, though they have limited use. Nitro Charge is surprising on Life Orb sets and allows Ninetales to beat Deoxys-S, preventing it from laying more than one layer of Spikes on the field. However, many of the speedy switch-ins to Ninetales are Dragons, which Ninetales would have probably been better off maiming with Fire Blast on the switch. Calm Mind is an option as well, but Ninetales is easy to threaten out physically and many of the problems of the Nasty Plot set are only magnified.</p>

    <p>Ninetales could theoretically take advantage of a Choice Scarf, but it already outspeeds most of the other weather inducers that love to switch into it, and without a Life Orb or Choice Specs Ninetales would have trouble damaging the common speedy Dragon switch-ins. An Air Balloon to avoid Earthquakes for switching could be useful, but many Earthquaking Pokemon might opt instead to use Stone Edge and obliterate Ninetales. This option is more palatable if Ninetales is supported by Pokemon weak to Ground, especially Wish Jirachi, or if you especially fear being trapped by Dugtrio.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Blissey and Eviolite Chansey wall Ninetales pretty well, and specially-bulky Water-types such as Jellicent and especially Tentacruel will cause massive problems even in the sun. All of these Pokemon will have problems dealing with Nasty Plot, so if they are specifically troublesome that may be a set to consider. Thick Fat Snorlax is also an issue but very much dislikes being burned by Will-O-Wisp, though Ninetales itself very much dislikes taking Earthquakes from Snorlax, sometimes being 2HKOed by aggressive sets such as Choice Band even if Snorlax is burned.</p>

    <p>Sadly for Ninetales, enemy weather inducers tend to be very good counters to it as well. With the weather turned in their favor, Tyranitar and Politoed will take relatively low damage even from Energy Ball or Hidden Power Fighting and can easily OHKO in return. Physically-bulky Hippowdon designed to take on Excadrill is a much shakier counter, but specially-defensive versions may be able to come in and wall Ninetales with Slack Off or KO back with Earthquake if they are in good health.</p>

    <p>Faster Dragons attempting to counter Ninetales must be wary of the power of Drought Fire Blast, which can do moderate damage through resistances to threats such as Choice Specs Latios. Defensive Latias can mostly shrug this off however and makes a strong counter. Flash Fire users such as Heatran and Chandelure must be handled by Ninetales with care, as allowing them to unleash the power of a Flash Fire Drought STAB Fire Blast is a scary prospect indeed. Most versions of Ninetales carry Will-O-Wisp, so Wobbuffet should not attempt to trap it unless Ninetales is Choiced, and even then must be wary of the intensity of Ninetales's Fire STAB in sunlight. Dugtrio can trap and eliminate almost any Ninetales easily and it's only foiled by Air Balloon or Choice Scarf versions.</p>
  2. BubaOReally?

    BubaOReally?

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    Ninetails makes a good anti meta poke just for the sole fact it stops sandstorm. With Doryzuu (spelling?) sand storm is going to become a top team, it also stop prominate thunder users. Also it boost Morning sun and Moonlight so Cresala (also anti meta) is a good teammate. i am trying to think how to use her but it is hard with her fragile stats and fire typing...still good though.
  3. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Shouldn't Solarbeam get a mention somewhere, at least in the optional changes? Sure, it may not be as reliable as Energy Ball, but it pairs well with Drought. It would take some prediction skills, but the power increase over Energy Ball could play very well in the right player's hands.
  4. MixedCalibur

    MixedCalibur

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    I agree. Even if you're not running a Sunny Day team, Solarbeam should always get a slash.
  5. iDunno

    iDunno

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    Solarbeam should never get a slash because Politoed, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon exist and will get rid of Sun thereby trapping and destroying it.
  6. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Solarbeam shouldn't be completely ignored, though. It deserves a mention somewhere. The simple power difference is too great to ignore. The right person could get in and obliterate with it. Not every team has Tyranitar, Politoed, or Hippowdown waiting in the wings. Besides, what happens when your opponent's "weather-check" has been eliminated and Ninetales still lives? Would you rather fire off Solarbeams, or Energy Balls?
  7. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Weather is HUGE from what I've seen, though it could very well be where I am on the ladder. Still, most teams do have their weather changer waiting, though it's obviously not as prevalent on "OU" Rain (since there's only Politoed.) Sandstorm teams generally have T-Tar and Hippo, so they'll come in, halve Solarbeam's power/force it to need a charge turn, possibly survive (I'd have to calc to make sure, but I'm sure neither would like a +2 Solarbeam), and kill Ninetales.

    Also, rhys, I'm not entirely sure I like this sentence: "Pokemon such as Growth Skymin and SD/Growth Venusaur maintain a lot of speed outside the Sun and can make weather changers pay dearly for switching in." It obviously doesn't apply to Shaymin-S, but, unless you're running max speed scarf (which is obviously incredibly retarded on a setup sweeper Venu), Venusaur won't be outspeeding much without the sun.
  8. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Look, I'm not saying that Solarbeam should be the main option over Energy Ball. I'm just saying that because of the power difference and Drought, that it at least deserves a mention. You can't honestly sit there and say with one-hundred percent certainty that it isn't usable. Sure, it is situational, but on the right teams and in the right hands, it could easily have superiority over Energy Ball, so it deserves a mention in the "Other Options" section.
  9. Erebyssial

    Erebyssial

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    I completely disagree with Solarbeam not even getting a slash. Don't forget that previewable teams means that you know beforehand whether or not your opponent has a weather inducer, so you can play accordingly to that. Also, +2 Timid LO Energy Ball fails to OHKO bulky Waters like Vappy and Suicune while Solarbeam is a clean OHKO. I'm sure there are more relevant damage calcs.. but just some things to consider.
  10. Gabe

    Gabe

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    Solarbeam is terrible, sorry. It should never be the main option on Ninetales when it has Energy Ball, especially when Politoed or Ttar are often switched into Ninetales.
  11. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    Solarbeam will geta mention in OO shortly, but I dont think it deserves a slash in the meta right now, full of weather changers which are incidentally the targets the grass move is most important for. I'd honestly completely forgotten it even existed.

    @Dr Cossack: Venu has 80 base speed, which is more than Hippo, Poli or Ttar, so unless theyre running scarf (lol Wobb says hi) it will outspeed them and get a free +2 STAB Power Whip or something. If they come in and then switch out, then at the least you're getting to hit something on the switch. Ill rephrase it to make that more clear.

    I know I should split the sets into Set Comments and Additional Comments, but I'll get around to it in a bit and probably try to add some more detailed content there.
  12. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Solarbeam is not terrible, it's just very situational and needs the right skills to pull off properly over Energy Ball.
  13. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Protect needs to be an option on the defensive set to scout CBTar's Pursuit attempts. Tyranitar can OHKO with Crunch/Stone Edge if you stay in, and with Pursuit if you switch out. Since that will permanently remove the sun and virtually cost you the game you need to be able to have some means of standing up to it. I've never personally used Ninetales but I've Pursuit'd more of them than I care to count and the only ones that escaped with their lives were the ones that used Protect + WoW.

    To be frank, Ninetales primary duty on a sun team is simply to stay alive. Also consider some means of dealing with Shandera.
  14. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    I'd actually like to see Ttar's usage stats (are any of those coming out for our server anytime soon?), as I have seen like no CB anywhere while laddering. I think most of them are too afraid to be trapped by Wobb after anything but Crunch to go choiced. WoW+Protect is nifty stalling though so I might give it a sentence and a slash in the last spot next revision, especially since itll be more useful once Wobb is banned and we see more choicetar again.
  15. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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  16. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    I meant the Smogon server, not the alternate meta with Skymin, Darkrai, and Manaphy banned (not to mention wobb usage apparently way lower than it is on Smogon).
  17. HART4FLOON

    HART4FLOON

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    lol

    Anyway, just because something is "uncommon" doesn't mean you shouldn't acknowledge it as a threat. Besides, I'm pretty sure most people realize that CBTar is good by now. So regardless of what is banned or not CBTar wrecks shit.
  18. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    I generally cleaned this up, added stuff, and made changes based on some experience I gained with Ninetales in the first suspect test. The defensive set in particular was revamped entirely based on metagame conditions and the invention of Chestorest weather induction. Mentions of pokemon that were rare in the first set such as Roserade and Snorlax were made/left in since they may become more common in the second test with Skymin and Darkrai gone.

    The majority of my play was with LO and Leftovers with the Offensive set, but I've also tried Specs and various Defensive configurations. Nasty Plot is pure theorymon, and imo its the shakiest set.
  19. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    Minor nitpick, but always expand Hidden Power, and don't spell it as HP. On the first set, the slash for move 4 should be Hypnosis / Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground.

    The correct sentence would read as ''Ninetales appreciates Rapid Spin or Magic Mirror support''

    There are a few other grammatical errors. Otherise, this is a solid analysis. Good luck.
  20. Kyuzeth

    Kyuzeth

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    ...Bite? You must mean Crunch.
  21. Iconic

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    Yeah from what I've seen on PO you definitely know what you're doing with Ninetales. Good stuff.

    QC Approved 1/2
  22. PooF

    PooF

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    Maybe i just didn't notice it, but i believe you never mentioned balloon in your analysis. I think it's excellent item on Ninetales as it gives him a lot more switch-in opportunities, particulary against Hippowdon who often only runs earthquake. When facing sand team with only hippo as their weather inducer, balloon Ninetales has major advantage and will often be able to win the "weather-war". Balloon also prevents Abomasnow from nailing Tales on the switch with Earthquake (although that's minor).
  23. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    Regarding Defensive Ninetales, I have a couple of issues with its moveslot slashes. The one I run on all of my Drought teams employs the use of Sub/HP Ground in the place of your other options for beating as many of its common switch-ins as possible. While you're safely behind a Sub, Tyranitar can't Pursuit you and has no choice but to either switch out or get burned. Also, depending on whether or not it goes first, you can scout for its set and take the appropriate countermeasure.

    Letting Heatran in for free is going to be a problem because its boosted Fire attacks will put some serious hurt on any sun team. This is an issue you'll notice even in teambuilder when you have your team of Grass/Fire/miscellaneous then realize no one can take a Fire type attack. :/ HP Fighting works too for Balloon users and beating Tyranitar easier.

    Also, most bulky Water types can be worn down by passive damage via Will-o-Wisp and immediate pressure from your Grass types. I think choosing a good HP is more important than Energy Ball for Defensive Tales. I feel slashing in Substitute and Hidden Power Fighting or Ground would be appropriate.
  24. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    Good point about sub. I like sub a lot more than protect for foiling Tyranitar, since it eases prediction which is always troublesome for Ninetales.

    However, I don't at ALL like the pairing of HP Ground+Flamethrower because you're in the awkward situation of being entirely unable to even break Heatran's Balloon. With 0 SpA HP Fighting is a 3HKO with rocks an leftoverless Heatran. If you sub and Heatran comes in, he's doing 51.4%-60.6% with Earth Power, so you will survive three hits to kill him if you subbed in good health (above 63.9%-73.1% when you make the sub, counting lefties recovery). This means if you come into rocks and sub you can still beat Heatran, unless at has lefties in which case you probably need those 92 spare EVs to be in SpA to get the 3HKO. If Heatran is scarf, then you'll notice after the first EP busts your sub and can switch to a flier anyway, so its a pretty foolproof plan.

    At the end of the day I think the two viable builds are ChestoRest with Energy Ball and SubLefties with HP Fighting, so I'll make some notes in the set to that effect.
  25. Kyuzeth

    Kyuzeth

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    I'd suggest SolarBeam on any set. It might be unreliable with Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Politoed out there, but consider it an option.

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