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Ninjask (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by smashlloyd20, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    STATUS: Written

    APPROVALS:
    QC 2/2 [Iconic] [Bloo]
    GP 3/3 [Calm Pokemaster] [Fatecrashers] [Chew Toshio]
    [​IMG]
    Ninjask

    [Overview]

    <p>In the past, Ninjask was known for one thing and one thing only: Baton Passing. In the fifth generation, Ninjask does exactly the same thing. Its massive 160 base Speed almost always allows it to get a Substitute up before its opponent can attack it, and with Swords Dance in its arsenal it can easily pass both Attack and Speed boosts to another Pokemon, priming it for a sweep. However, the new generation also heralded the biggest threat to Ninjask thus far—the dreaded ability known as Prankster. Wielders of this ability, such as Whimsicott and Thundurus, can switch in on Ninjask before it can Baton Pass and stop the little cicada dead in its tracks with a priority Taunt. Don't underestimate Ninjask's abilities though. It still outspeeds all of OU after one Speed Boost, and Prankster users can be Baton Passed out of with correct prediction. All in all, if you're building a Baton Pass team, it's a great idea to give Ninjask a shot.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: X-Scissor / Protect
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ninjask's infamous Baton Pass set makes its return for the third time, completely and utterly unchanged. The way this set works is by creating multiple Substitutes, stalling for time while Ninjask accumulates Speed boosts. Its Speed Boost ability and massive base 160 Speed allows it to perform this feat with ease, and when the time is right, Ninjask can Baton Pass to a teammate before the opponent can make a move. This set can easily transform slow, heavy hitters into insanely fast wrecking balls.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance is the move that makes this set work, boosting Attack to secure the offensive power the pass receiver will need to break through the enemy team. secure the offensive power the pass receiver will need to break through the enemy team. The biggest decision for the set is choosing between X-Scissor and Protect. X-Scissor prevents Ninjask from being completely shut down by Taunt, and can deal heavy damage to certain key Pokemon such as Whimsicott and Deoxys-S. However, one cannot ignore Protect's awesome benefits to this set-- scouting for priority attacks and Taunt, securing more Leftovers recovery to make more Substitutes, and stalling for more turns (and thus, more precious boosts to Speed).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The item choice on this set is fairly straightforward, allowing Ninjask to produce five Substitutes in conjunction with 176 HP EVs as opposed to four. As for the rest of its EV spread, maximum Attack EVs let Ninjask hit as hard as possible with X-Scissor, especially after a few Swords Dances. The remaining 80 EVs are placed in Speed. The EVs and nature are set to allow Ninjask to outspeed 130 base Speed foes. As an aside, the 252 Attack EVs should be moved to Defense when not using X-Scissor. This will allow Ninjask to better weather blows from powerful priority moves like Dragonite and Deoxys-S's ExtremeSpeed and Scizor's Bullet Punch.</p>

    <p>Ninjask doesn't need a lot of support on its own, as its role is mainly to support its team. It does appreciate a consistent Rapid Spin user such as Tentacruel to alleviate its crippling weakness to Stealth Rock, but that's about it. A more important teammate for Ninjask is the receiver of the Baton Pass. Bulky, powerful Pokemon that could use a boost to their Speed stat fit the bill well. Metagross is a noteworthy pass target, owner of a 135 base Attack, as well as resistances to Ninjask's Ice- and Rock-type weaknesses.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ninjask doesn't have a lot of other options to consider. The most noteworthy alteration one could make to the standard set would be to replace Leftovers with Mental Herb. In BW, Mental Herb blocks both Taunt and Encore for a turn, making it impossible for Prankster users to stop Ninjask's Baton Pass. With Mental Herb and Protect, even in a lead match up against a Prankster user, Ninjask is guaranteed to at least make one pass of +1 Speed to a teammate. If the Prankster user has to switch into Ninjask, it will get to pass 2 Speed boosts (with Protect), and likely an intact Substitute as well! While the loss of Leftovers seriously diminishes Ninjask's long-term abilities, its 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, general frailty and heavy reliance on Substitute often mean its strategy will only be a "one-shot wonder" in many games anyway. Mental Herb can help ensure that "one-shot" goes off well. It can run Aerial Ace as its attacking move over X-Scissor to hit opposing Fighting-types such as Conkledurr hard. Bug Bite is another option to consider, as it renders any berry held by its opponent useless. However, both of these moves are inferior to the sheer power of X-Scissor.</p>

    <p>Ninjask can also run a simple Life Orb or Choice Band attacking set. However, these sets are poor options because of Ninjask's mediocre base 90 Attack and shallow movepool. In addition, it is forced to run Dig in order to hit the extremely common Steel-type Pokemon in the metagame.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>There aren't many ways to attack Ninjask before it can set up a Substitute or use Baton Pass, rendering most common attackers useless against the ninja cicada. However, any attack that successfully hits Ninjask has a high probability of heavily damaging or outright KOing it due to its frail defenses. Priority attacks ignore Ninjask's enormous Speed, making common users of priority such as Scizor and Azumarill good checks to Ninjask.</p>

    <p>Another good way of stopping Ninjask from doing its job is the move Taunt, which prevents it from using Baton Pass, Substitute, and Swords Dance, basically rendering Ninjask useless. As Ninjask can always Baton Pass out at the first sign of a Taunt, Prankster users such as Thundurus are the most effective. Whimsicott also has access to a priority Taunt, but will take heavy damage from X-Scissor. It should be noted that even without Taunt, Whimsicott's priority Encore will absolutely shut down a Ninjask that had previously used Swords Dance or Substitute. On the other hand, Mental Herb can go a long way in alleviating issues with Taunt and Encore, so one should be weary of relying on these moves should Ninjask lack Leftovers recovery.</p>

    <p>An even greater issue for Ninjask is phazing. Phazing has always been the biggest problem for any Baton Pass strategy, and this is unchanged in the fifth generation. Phaze will blow away Ninjask's boosts whether it passes or not, and can't be stopped by Substitute. Unlike with Taunt and Encore, there's no magic item Ninjask can throw on to alleviate its problems with Whirlwind and Roar. The most common phaze users in OU are Skarmory, Gyarados and Hippowdon. It would be wise for any Ninjask user to bring teammates that can deal with these Pokemon.</p>

    <p>As a final measure of desperation, one could always throw out an extremely powerful offensive Pokemon against Ninjask. The most vulnerable point in Ninjask's strategy is the turn it passes to the Baton Pass target. As long as you can prevent Ninjask from getting up a Substitute intact somewhere, you should get a free shot to attack the Baton Pass target directly as it is switched in. With Team Preview on your side, you also will likely know in advance what the likely pass targets will be. If you can get a powerful offensive Pokemon in front of Ninjask that OHKOes or otherwise cripples/defeats Ninjask's potential pass targets, you will likely come out advantageous against Ninjask's team.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Ninjask gets the ability Infiltrator from the Dream World; this makes all of Ninjask's attacks ignore Reflect and Light Screen. This ability is completely useless when compared to Speed Boost, as it takes away Ninjask's only niche in the metagame.</p>
  2. Bloo

    Bloo
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    Okay, so Ninjask basically stayed the same as it did in DPP, so there isn't much to suggest here. I do, however, have a couple of recommendations for you to take into consideration.

    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe shouldn't be listed as the main EV choice. 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe is the preferred choice since it enables Ninjask to produce more Substitutes, thus, giving it an opportunity to grab more Speed Boosts. With that EV spread, get rid of Focus Sash as an item option. Substitute + Focus Sash doesn't mesh well for reasons I hope are obvious. Since Swords Dance is the boosting move you're trying to pass, get rid of Protect as a slash and shift it down to Optional Changes. As for Ninjask's attacking options, Aerial Ace needs a slash alongside X-Scissor.

    Also the order of your moves should be listed in order of importance, meaning that Baton Pass should be mentioned second, not last, and so on. Here's what it should look like (the below includes format changes as well).

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: X-Scissor / Aerial Ace
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe

    Anyway, mention Borutorosu as a Mischievous Heart user that troubles Ninjask. It is resistant to Ninjask's STABs and can Taunt it, preventing set-up, and proceed to annihilate it with Thunderbolt.

    Lastly:

    Marowak and Rampardos are completely nonexistent in Gen. 5 OU (and will likely stay that way). As such, they should not be mentioned as recipients. Mention Pokemon that actually fare well in OU / are bulky and appreciate Speed Boosts. Garchomp is a good example of this since it resists Ninjask's Fire weakness and and is immune to his Electric weakness as well. Metagross is also a good choice as it can switch-in on Ince moved and has all around good bulk, coverage, and loves receiving a boost in Speed / Attack. Heck, you can even mention Roobushin; it's monstrous with a Swords Dance / a couple Speed Boosts under its belt.

    That's that. Will approve of this once these changes are rectified.
  3. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    I'll stamp this analysis as soon as these changes are made.
  4. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Perhaps you should mention in teammates that Ninjask likes having Rapid Spin support if one plans on using Baton Pass several times; otherwise, Stealth Rock owns him.
  5. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Mention Bug Bite as that berry boost might be useful.
  6. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Ninjask basically NEEDS one of its STAB moves to deal with Erufuun, and it can't even hit Voltolos with those. I see Ninjask falling way out of use with all the MH Taunters running around. :0
  7. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Oddly I am seeing really no MH Taunters, although Borotorosu does tend to priority T-Wave.

    Anyway, the changes have been made. Apologies for the long wait.
  8. PooF

    PooF

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    You only mention MH taunters while pretty much any taunter can stop Ninjask from doing it's job (or at least force him to baton pass early).

    More importantly, phazers laugh at ninjask, as even if it baton passes, recipient will be forced out and lose all the boosts. Most common phazers are also pretty bulky and don't fear X-scissor. And if stealth rock is present, ninjask will have difficult time trying to setup and baton pass again.
  9. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Is Dream World Sableye released from Dream World? If not, it should be removed from the Counters section, since the analysis' are supposed to reflect Standard OU.
  10. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Editing now, although I find spinning is extraordinarily easy in Gen 5 as the only common spinbloker is Buruungeru.

    I think it is.

    EDIT: changes made. Added a fewthings like Taunt to AC and such.
  11. Iconic

    Iconic
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    yaaaaaaay ninjask

    QC Approved 1/2

    edit: Oooops I thought the slash on X-Scissor was actually Protect, so I definitely agree with Delta that Protect needs a slash. In terms of the spread, I don't think it really makes a big deal where the extra EVs go because you're probably not going to be taking a hit anyways since firstly Ninjask is fast as hell and secondly it'd be stupid to switch in on anything. You should probably mention a spread of 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 Speed if Protect is used instead of X-Scissor to keep your HP odd and to give Ninjask a bit of extra bulk.
  12. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    I know Bloo suggested it but doesn't 252 Atk EVs seem a tad unnecessary when Ninjask's primary goal is getting off a successful pass? If I were you I'd delegate those EVs into bulk, but you might want other opinions.

    You should also mention Protect to gain additional speed boosts as well as Leftovers recovery.
  13. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Thing is, what does all that bulk do? Ninjask is still frail like a wet paper towel, even with defensive EV investment. Ninjask might as well hit a few things before going down, or take advantage of the Swords Dance boost. Attack EV investment is pretty usable.
  14. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    ...So basically you guys just said that as long as Ninjask has enough Speed to outspeed pretty much everything, it's basically fine.

    Ninjask, I find, is an underrated cleaner. There have been several times where I've led off with Ninjask, passed to Roob, swept 3-4 Pokemon, and switched back to Ninjask, who then proceeded to Swords Dance and run through an opponent's team with its surprisingly decent base 90 Attack. And as Accidental stated Ninjask is about as bulky as a tissue anyway.

    Anyways, changes made. Kept the existing EV spread with a mention of Iconic's alternative one.
  15. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    You should probably mention what kind of "Baton Pass targets" Ninjask should pass to. Roopushin obviously doesn't like using Payback if it's passed some Speed Boosts, so maybe it can use a Flame Orb set or something. If it's passing to an attacker, normally it shouldn't have a setup move (most likely an all-out attacker). Basically, just mention that the recipient needs to have good coverage and acceptably powerful moves (otherwise it gets walled by ridiculous things like a Dragon or Nattorei or Berungeru).

    On topic, what kind of Roobushin/recipient do you use, Lloyd? I would imagine if Roobushin is a passer-only guy, it doesn't run Payback.
  16. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Added in a mention of Accidental's point.

    It was a 252 atk/252 spd jolly. It really doesn't lose a lot of power especially with a Swords Dance, and Mach Punch rips anything that outspeeds Roob at +3 or so to shreds.

    My normal recipient is generally Metagross. I use the Ninjask version of Protect over Swords Dance which usually gets me up to +4 or so, and if I can try to pass a Sub on the switch. Meteor Mash does the rest.
  17. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Last time I checked, it can...but only when its HP is odd.
  18. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Right, sorry. Fixed. I sort of assumed that Ninjask will always create a Sub at least once before switching, so then it gets 2HKO'd by Stealth Rock.
  19. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Oh, small tidbit, but Ninjask doesn't learn Taunt, easy fix (if it did run Taunt, it'd be the one of the most overused Baton Passers hands down).
  20. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Ugh, fix'd. That sucks hard. Although Ninjask is already one of the most used BP'ers.
  21. Bloo

    Bloo
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    All the changes look good. Approving now.

    QC APPROVED (2/2)
  22. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Thanks Bloo, will begin writing up.
  23. packman1

    packman1

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    This is my first post here but I have been lurking for a while.

    I am surprised that dig has not been mentioned. In the place of protect so that instead of only preventing them from hurting you or breaking your sub, you damage them OR force a switch to a pokemon with levitate or x/Flying typing. The best part of all of this is that Ninjask being Bug/Flying means that even if they manage to perfectly predict your move (unlikely, as you will always get the initial dig off with that base speed) and use earthquake or lol-magnitude it won't have any effect unless they managed to use gravity before.

    Feel free to flame/correct me I am not actually sure the sub becomes invulnerable during the dig but I can't find a mention anywhere.
  24. Xav

    Xav

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    Dig is generally a bad option as it gives the opponent a free turn to switch or set-up. For example Dig -> Opponent switches to Skarmory -> takes no damage from dig -> Baton Pass or further set up while Skarmory Whirlwinds.

    Protect is far superior as it can scout your opponent's move and grants a extra speed boost.
  25. Iceydude168

    Iceydude168

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    Thundurus/Borutorosu is a great partner to Ninjask, you should add that. Taunt down hazard setters, and kill them / paralyze them with Thunder Wave. If you can get a clean KO on them, Taunt / Thunder Wave their switch. Because they're Taunted, they can't Taunt Ninjask. Then, let Ninjask take over and use their paralysis to set up Subs and boost its stats, netting you a very successful Baton Pass. And because they're Taunted, you don't need to run an attacking move, meaning you can invest more into Defenses and HP. Some notable team-combos are:
    Breloom-Octillery
    Marowak-Octillery
    Escavalier-Octillery
    Golurk-Octillery


    All these Pokemon will resist/are immune to Ninjask's weaknesses, making it easy to boost and Baton Pass to them, and they have a fairly good chance of surviving. You're probably wondering: why Octillery? The answer is its ability, Suction Cups. This means that phazers will have no effect on it. In addition, it also gets Rock Blast to bust down Subs that will have accumulated when Ninjask is boosting. Octillery's Base 105 Attack may not seem like much, but it can be very hard to deal with when you accumulate the proper boosts. If you don't want to run Octillery, run Azumarill, as its bulk is good, and it already has amazing Attack.

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