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Ninjask (BW2 Revamp) [QC 4/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by col49, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. col49

    col49 what.
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    sup. so basically what i want to do in this analysis is make a point of stressing where and how ninjask should be used in a pretty decent amount of detail, and put a little less focus on the standard stuff. it's kinda unorthodox, but ninjask is a pretty unorthodox 'mon, and in a tier as priority-heavy as ru, i feel as though it should be made clear in the analysis that you don't just lead with it and pass off, etc. also i was planning on approaching this on the basis of using it as a quick-passer, but if anybody has a strong case for dedicated bp teams, then feel free to bring it up (otherwise i'll probably just give a nod to them in oo / ac mention mental herb). oh yeah, and offensive sd's out,

    Code:
    [I]To-Do List:[/I]
    [LIST]
    
    [*]Verify item / nature / move slashes+EV spread (why Jolly w/near-max speed, sash is practically useless, pretty sure grabbing an SD w/Ninjask is a little too optimistic most times, etc.) [✓]
    [*]Incorporate more relevant partners, threats, etc., pretty old tbh (dtail steelix tho)  [✓]
    [*]Stress how to play, really [✓]
    [*]chek [✓]
    [*]writ [✓]
    [*]chek2 [✓]
    [/LIST]

    [​IMG]
    buggin'

    [Overview]

    <p>Despite its unique role, Ninjask struggles in RU for reasons both inherent to itself and to the tier as a whole. Ninjask's ability to passively acquire Speed boosts and Baton Pass them, along with any other secondary buffs acquired in the process, though not necessarily a simple task, immediately establishes a niche in the tier. Bug / Flying is a very unappealing typing defensively, possessing a series of weaknesses to common attacking types (as well as a dangerous Stealth Rock weakness), and 61 / 45 / 50 defenses aren't doing much to mitigate this issue. The inherently bulky nature of the metagame means that Speed boosts often aren't enough for a Pokemon to consistently sweep, meaning that Ninjask often has to either prioritize passing Swords Dance boosts (a role it doesn't perform nearly as well as that of a Speed passer) to a partner for it to apply the offensive pressure necessary to wear down the common defensive cores of the tier, or resign itself to use in the mid- to late-game in order to find a window in which its abilities become pertinent for a sweeper to effectively clean up.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, the omnipresence of priority users, such as Entei, Kabutops, and Spiritomb, make both passing and receiving boosts a much more difficult task, forcing the Ninjask user to carefully plan their Baton Pass. Even after all that, there are still multi-hit move users and phazers that can almost completely stop any given Ninjask setup, often forcing it to reserve itself until mid-game to have any impact on the match. Ninjask is a very capable supporter of a plethora of potent Pokemon in RU, but in order to excel in this role, it requires significant support, proper prediction and judgment on the part of the user, and just a pinch of patience.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Base 160 Isn't Enough IMO
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Swords Dance / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Strictly speaking, this is the only set Ninjask should be running competitively. The concept behind this set is very simple on paper: utilize Protect and Substitute to safely acquire Speed boosts, then proceed to pass them off to the appropriate sweeper. Substitute serves a secondary purpose on this set as a buffer for both Ninjask and the recipient, protecting them from becoming compromised by status or Dragon Tail and Circle Throw, while also reducing the necessity for either to take strong hits. With that in mind, it is very rare that Ninjask has either the opportunity or the necessity to use anything other than its first three moves. However, the fourth move does offer Ninjask a degree of additional utility, and does somewhat affect how it plays. In terms of sheer potency, Swords Dance is far and away the most dangerous option&mdash;while it is very rare that Ninjask finds the opportunity to both set up a Swords Dance and bring in the proper recipient safely, the results can be devastating. On the other hand, while not nearly as threatening, Toxic is a useful and self-sufficient option for Ninjask. The cumulative chip damage Toxic provides not only synergizes nicely with the cycles of Substitute and Protect Ninjask commonly undergoes but can, at times, even force the opponent to switch out to preserve the poisoned Pokemon, which can open up a free turn for Ninjask to effectively pass off its boosts to a teammate safely.</p>

    <p>As straightforward as this process appears in theory, it requires substantially more prediction on the part of the Ninjask user in practice. While you can very well get up to +6 Speed by constantly using Protect and Substitute in succession, this not only wastes much more of Ninjask's HP than probably necessary but is also incredibly predictable and very exploitable by a knowledgeable opponent. A very simple and effective method of keeping opponents on their toes is to avoid setting up to +6 except for in the most dire situations&mdash;it might sound odd to not acquire as many boosts as possible, but once Ninjask acquires all the Speed boosts it possibly can, it's left with nothing much else to do but attempt to Baton Pass, which makes it all the easier for the opponent to nail the switch-in with a powerful attack. It is very rare that a Pokemon needs all of those Speed boosts to outpace the entirety of the opponent's team; simply boosting to the necessary level both saves PP and HP for Ninjask and makes predicting the Baton Pass all the more difficult.</p>

    <p>Moreover, it is important to note that having a Substitute up when Ninjask attempts the Baton Pass should hold priority over almost everything else, even if this means sacrificing an extra Speed boost or two in doing so. Having a Substitute active not only completely protects the Baton Pass recipient from everything barring multi-hit attacks and certain non-attacking moves that it might have otherwise struggled to switch into, but also gives it assurance against priority users and particularly fast Choice Scarf users afterwards, which effectively mitigates any Speed boosts the sweeper might have "lost" by forgoing the extra turns of boosting with Ninjask. While it isn't necessarily easy to maintain a Substitute, by mixing up the use of Protect and Substitute, rather than simply alternating between the two, Ninjask can do its recipient a much bigger favor than any extra one or two Speed boosts ever will. However, it should be noted that without users of phazing or multi-hit moves already disposed of, these boosts are practically forfeit, as such Pokemon can quickly neutralize Ninjask or its recipient.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Ninjask's physical bulk in order for it to better take on priority attacks, with a Timid nature and 16 Speed EVs ensuring that it outpaces Aerodactyl without a boost, as well as Unburden Hitmonlee at +1. In terms of item choice, Leftovers is often preferable, as the passive recovery not only allows Ninjask to produce more consecutive Substitutes, but also helps put it just outside the KO range of priority attacks, such as Entei's ExtremeSpeed, by using Protect when necessary. However, due to the fact that Ninjask very often only gets a single chance to set up, other items that can open up more opportunities aren't outside the realm of possibility. Lum Berry is one such example, as this allows Ninjask to more comfortably switch into defensively-inclined Pokemon, such as Clefable, Poliwrath, and Uxie, and proceed to accumulate boosts. Mental Herb gives Ninjask a chance to neutralize a single Taunt, allowing it to pick up a few more boosts against Pokemon such as Qwilfish, though the limited pool of effective Taunt users makes this a less consistently useful option than either Leftovers or Lum Berry.</p>

    <p>As elaborated upon earlier, Ninjask has very little use for much beyond its first three moves, so its final moveslot can be effectively tinkered with to achieve different results depending on individual necessities. A STAB move, such as X-Scissor or Aerial Ace, while not realistically making Ninjask any less vulnerable to Taunt, does offer Ninjask a method of dealing damage, which can at times prove useful for picking off weakened Grass- and Fighting-types it can occasionally switch into. Roost is also technically a possibility, as it could potentially increase Ninjask's lifespan to the point where it could attempt to pass boosts a second time, but typically teams utilizing Ninjask are too fast-paced and offensive to want to extend the match this long.</p>

    <p>Because Ninjask is almost entirely support-based in terms of its role, it is more important to focus on what benefits the most from its abilities first and foremost, rather than supporting it, when picking partners. The most appropriate partners for this role are those with high immediate power and the natural bulk and/or resistances necessary to comfortably stomach a priority move or even a weaker attack when switching in, with Ninjask's Speed boosts putting them comfortably outside the range of most Speed-reliant revenge killers. Ideally, these Pokemon should possess good defensive synergy with Ninjask in addition to possibly resisting common coverage options, as this makes predicting the Baton Pass more difficult and thereby dangerous. There are many options for this, which include Aggron, Crawdaunt, Druddigon, Durant, and Emboar, and it would be in one's best interest to utilize multiple recipients in order to diversify the potential threats to best suit various different match-ups. Kabutops should be given special acknowledgment in this role, as it provides the option of Rapid Spin to give Ninjask a bigger window to set up mid-game. Lastly, and while it might seem excessive, dual screens support is a very realistic option for Swords Dance variants of Ninjask&mdash;passing a Swords Dance boost in addition to the standard Speed boosts can very often be game-ending if executed properly, and thus very much worth the investment in dual screens. Uxie is the ideal partner for this role, as it can quickly set up screens, provide Stealth Rock support, and get out of the way via Memento, efficiently setting the stage for Ninjask to set up safely.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With a Pokemon as single-minded and linear as Ninjask, expecting it to do anything more than its one designated job is optimistic to say the least. Options to try to make use of its abilities in an offensive manner, such as a Choice Band or offensive Swords Dance set, could be utilized to some extent, though in the end, Ninjask makes for a very mediocre sweeper on its own. Essentially, the one other option worth considering would be more a matter of context rather than a different move or set, and that would be using Ninjask on a dedicated Baton Pass team. While Ninjask is generally better off serving as a means of supporting a powerful sweeper, it does remain the single best Speed booster for dedicated Baton Pass teams, which makes it a staple on such formats. However, due to a variety of factors, including a noticeable lack of strong Baton Pass support and teammates, this strategy is typically inadvisable under most circumstances.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Ninjask wears itself down to the point where it can be picked off by nearly anything while fulfilling its role, Pokemon that are capable of inhibiting it from successfully passing its boosts are the best counters. The most solid, as well as the most obvious, are phazers, as Pokemon such as Steelix and Mandibuzz are capable of completely preventing Ninjask from supporting its teammates. Contact-based phazing moves from Pokemon such as Druddigon and Poliwrath fall into this category, but their low PP, imperfect accuracy, and inability to phaze through Substitute make them substantially less effective. What's more, Haze Cryogonal can similarly neutralize Ninjask's boosts while also threatening it with a STAB Ice Beam, though its susceptibility to Toxic and inability to remove Substitute without attacking makes it possible to be played around. Qwilfish, being the premier Taunt user of the tier, is capable of restricting the number of boosts Ninjask can accumulate, as well as threatening to cripple the Baton Pass recipient with Thunder Wave if Ninjask fails to acquire a Substitute beforehand. Multi-hit move users, such as Cinccino, Crustle, Piloswine, and Rhydon, are capable of circumventing Substitute and hitting both Ninjask and the recipient hard. Stealth Rock is naturally inhibiting to Ninjask, as it shaves off half of its HP upon every switch-in, restricting it to only one opportunity to set up at best. Moreover, by simply applying consistent offensive pressure to Ninjask, it is put in a very difficult position to safely pass off its boosts to a sweeper.</p>

    skelli (open)
    [Overview]
    • passes speed boosts, yes sir
    • though dedicated baton pass isn't a very effective strat in ru (mr.mime's the only anti-phazing option, your best bet at pressuring haze cryo is mawile, etc.), passing speed to a sweeper can still be pretty threatening if executed properly
    • too bad priority is everywhere =(
    • 4x sr weakness+the fact that nobody is going to give it free turns makes it rather difficult for ninjask to get a sub-protect cycle going to begin racking up speed boosts, and getting your recipient in safely is even worse (not hit by tspikes tho, which is cool, 'cuz that'd be awful for it '-' )
    • if something had to be said for it, it would be that phazing isn't all that common (steelix, some torterra / drudd, 'wrath is takin' 50-50's for a while, lesser stuff like drap / mandibuzz), which means that it can pass boosts a little more liberally. oh, taunt is rare too
    • definitely usable, but doing so requires tactful play, a solid amount of prediction, and a little patience

    [SET]
    name: Base 160 Isn't Enough IMO (Don't make me change this pls ;-; )
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Toxic / Swords Dance
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • my name is ninjask, i am the fastest
    • essentially ninjask's role is to come in, acquire as many speed boosts as necessary (stressing it doesn't need to exhaust 50+% of its HP to get to +6 when +2 or +3 will be sufficient), and pass them off, ideally with as little risk to the designated sweeper as possible (again, a short bit stating that continually protecting and subbing in loops is incredibly obvious and exploitable, better to mix it up and risk not assuredly getting your safe lefties recovery from protect when you could possibly be grabbing a free sub, etc.)
    • toxic allows ninjask to get some secondary benefits from it's sub-protect cycles, getting some nice residual damage on a reasonable sum of 'mons
    • sd is cool in that you could theoretically make a pretty ridiculous pass if given a free turn, though in application it isn't often that ninjask acquires enough opportunities for that

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • The EV spread is pretty straightforward. 240 HP minimizes SR damage (idk why 248 was being used, it still puts it at 325, so it was taking the same amount from basically everything but super fang '~' ), a timid nature+16 speed evs outpaces aerodactyl, +1 base 80's (notably 'tops, though occasional adamant medicham as well), etc. without a boost and outpaces hitmonlee post-unburden at +1 (so that it can come in after it activates its gem, protect for the boost, then sub down to pp stall stone if no return or simply incentivize it to go for non-stab attacks to make it riskier to try to predict when it'll pass), with the rest pooled into defense in order to buff it out against priority a little bit more (gives it a pretty good shot to survive 2 CB Entei ESpeeds after lefties recovery from a turn of protect, lo 'tops aqua jet hits for 33-40%, cb tomb's shadow sneak hits for about the same, etc.)
    • item choice: lefties is typically better, only because the recovery it offers helps it jump just outside the ko range of some fairly relevant priority attacks (sub recovery isn't super important since it's uncommon that ninjask will get 2 set-up opps), lum berry is pretty clutch in that it gives ninjask a more comfortable switch into grass-types, in addition to giving it the option to switch into defensively-inclined 'mons like clefable and momo without getting compromised to a twave or toxic (though twave is way more important obv.). also, mental herb is cute is that in can grab ninjask an extra cycle of sub-protect v.taunt users if need be, though qwilfish is basically the only pertinent one
    • if you're really feeling that ninjask needs to have some method of dealing damage, aerial ace is an option in the fourth slot (using a jolly nature > timid), since it hits grass- and fighting-types (ie.the most prominent things ninjask might have a chance of switching immediately into) for decent damage, but still pretty weak overall. also x-scissor, because honestly the extra bp is a pretty big deal with something as weak as ninjask :[
    • ok, so partners. basically the ideal choices for this are just strong 'mons with enough natural bulk to be able to take on priority decently; having them be physically-based is also nice should you be running sd, and if can capitalize on the fact that the opposing 'mon is hard-pressed not to go for a fighting-, grass-, or ground-type attack, then that's all the better, since it makes predicting the pass (or rather not predicting it) significantly riskier
    • durant, druddigon, crawdaunt, aggron, emboar etc. are all good. kabutops gets special acknowledgement at doing this fairly well in addition to offering spin support
    • it can be a bit of a stretch at times, but screens support is nice if you're insistent on running sd, since passing something like a +2 / +3 to a drudd or something is just the game right there. usually uxie is optimal for this, since it just gets up sr and a screen or two and memento's out of the way
    [Other Options]
    • ah
    • use in a bp chain
    • offensive set
    • cb
    • like, flash or something, make roar / random attacks less accurate?

    [Checks and Counters]
    • basically this means stopping / hindering it from passing, koing it just happens at one stage or another
    • phazing is the obvious one, 'mons like steelix and whatnot sorta just inhibit it from doing things while they're still around. soft-phazing move users like poliwrath and druddigon are in the same boat, though the 90% acc. can ruin them at the worst times, and on top of that 'wrath has to constantly play 50-50's to make sure it doesn't circle throw on a sub and let something in for free
    • in a similar boat, haze cryogonal can neutralize boosts ez while applying secondary pressure through ibeam. it can occasionally let a free sub-pass through assuming good prediction on the ninjask user's part
    • multi-hit move users, cincinno, rhydon, and piloswine being noteworthy examples, can really inhibit ninjask, limiting ninjask to only a couple boosts and making it hard for the recipient to come in very safely
    • qwilfish is capable of putting ninjask in a tough position, either taunting, and thereby totally incapacitating, ninjask, or simply crippling it or the proceeding switch-in with thunder wave
    • sr is limiting it to, at best, 1 opportunity to pass, as well as putting in a much more comfortable range for priority users to pick it off
    • constant offensive pressure can both limit ninjask's opportunities to switch in and restrict its ability to get its intended pass recipient in safely, which can ruin its entire strat
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2013
  2. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    The only viable thing with Taunt that I can think of is Qwilfish.
    • I'd mention something other than Crawdaunt as a recipient as it isn't that great of a Pokemon (emboar is a slow strong mon that is good)
    • I don't think I've ever been able to status a Ninjask to be honest. Even if you switch into a Grass-type since you don't have any attacking moves they really shouldn't be scared and can just HP Fire or HP Rock you. I think Leftovers is the best option, and I don't even think Lum Berry should be a slash when the leftovers recovery is just so crucial.
    • Speaking of attacking moves, I'd add X-Scissor to AC. It's cool to at least have an attacking move but its pretty hard to fit it in... I've done it before.
    • Maybe it's just me but I think that Swords Dance is better than Toxic by a long shot. In the case that you manage to set up a Swords Dance (instead of Protecting or something) and then pass to something like Golurk, you pretty much win with enough boosts, unless the opponent has some priority.
    I'll stamp once this is implemented or discussed (these aren't many changes but some involve the set itself :/)
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  3. col49

    col49 what.
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    ah, cool tapes, thanks for a quick reply n_n

    to address individual points:
    • kinda dumb of me to overlook qwilfish tbh, i'll be sure to mention it then haha
    • while i can understand where you're coming from with the point about crawdaunt, and i do recognize that in a general manner it certainly isn't the greatest 'mon overall, i feel as though in this instance in particular it is worth noting. the extra speed that ninjask is able to pass off to crawdaunt mitigates that whole "still too slow after a boost" issue for him nicely, it can circumvent it's defensive answers a lot more comfortably than a lot of similar 'mons via sub, and resistances to aqua jet and sucker punch, as well as taking ESpeed moderately well, are all pertinent to allow it mention. i'll definitely mention emboar as well (aqua jet weak, but still good), but i'd like to hold onto crawdaunt for now if that's ok '~'
    • oh yeah, x-scissor is a thing lol. i'll put that alongside aerial ace in ac then :P
    • the whole toxic v.sd is somewhat of a weird point for me tbh :/ while sd is really nice in theory, i've only managed to pull it off once in application (and the opp wasn't that great tbh), whereas the ability to grab consistent residual damage has actually proved surprisingly useful in contrast. noted that toxic isn't anything stellar, but it was actually accomplishing something at a much higher frequency than sd, which is why i put it as the primary slash. however, i'm shaky on it, so as you mention it'd definitely be nice to get some discussion on that haha
  4. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    yeah that's fine, I forgot it resisted those two priority moves tbh :p

    I'm still unsure about the Lum Berry slash since I still think the Lefties recovery is pretty much required, but toxic v swords dance i guess isn't too major admittedly since both have their occasional use.

    QC Approved 1/3
  5. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    This looks pretty good to me, agree with all of Swamp-Rocket's changes, nice job with toning down the overview and stuff too.

    QC Approved 2/3
  6. col49

    col49 what.
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    ayte, thanks gaiz, I'll get on writing dis. On my phone, so im not even gonna try makin' edits to op, but having gotten a couple more hours of play testing in, I'm leaning towards relegating Lum to AC myself, so that'll be a thing. I'll try to get on irc today so we can get the sd vs toxic thing ironed out too.
  7. col49

    col49 what.
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    ok, so this is written. i went into a decent amount of detail with this one, including a "users manual" sorta segment, but if people feel as though it's excessive, then i'll see what i can do to trim it down.
  8. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Looks p. good. Clearly states how one should go about using Ninjask and that just leading with it isn't enough in RU with stuff like Rhydon and Cinccino on quite a few teams and carrying Rock Blast.

    QC Approved 3/3
  9. col49

    col49 what.
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    rad, thanks man =)
    fix my bad grammar pls
  10. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    amcheck, here we go

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    [Overview]

    <p>Despite its potency, Ninjask struggles as a Pokemon in RU, for reasons both inherent to itself and to the tier as a whole. Ninjask's ability to passively acquire Speed boosts and Baton Pass them, along with any other secondary buffs acquired in the process, immediately establishes it a niche in the tier, though this doesn't necessarily make it a simple task. Bug / Flying is a very unappealing typing defensively, retaining a series of weaknesses to common attacking types (as well as a dangerous Stealth Rock weakness), and 61 / 45 / 50 defenses aren't doing much to mitigate this issue. Moreover, due to the nature of the Pokemon itself, very few opponents will be willing to give Ninjask the window to comfortably set up or pass its boosts to a partner without significantly risk to both Ninjask and the recipient, which makes proper prediction crucial in order to successfully pass off boosts. What's more, the inherently bulky nature of the metagame means that Speed boosts often aren't enough for a Pokemon to consistently sweep, meaning that Ninjask often has to either prioritize passing Swords Dance boosts (a role it doesn't perform nearly as well as that of a speed passer) to a partner for it to apply the offensive pressure necessary to wear down the common defensive cores of the tier (I feel that this is unnecessary, as I assume readers have basic knowledge of the tier, but feel free to leave it in) or resign itself to use in the mid- to late-game in order to find a window in which its abilities become pertinent for a sweeper to effectively clean up. What's more, the plethora of common and potent priority users, including Entei, Kabutops, and Spiritomb among many others, put additional pressure on it and the recipient itself, making it much more difficult to realistically sweep with your stereotypical glass cannon. RU even hosts a moderate amount of multi-hit move users, ranging from Cincinno to Rhydon, all of whom are capable of applying pressure to both Ninjask and its recipient of choice regardless of Substitute. If anything were to be said in Ninjask's defense, the limited pool of phazers in RU works to Ninjask's advantage, as not as many teams can simply neutralize its boosts without any need to predict.</p>

    <p>Despite all these factors, Ninjask is by no means a "bad Pokemon" (unnecessary); on the contrary, it is perhaps one of the most potent support Pokemon in the tier by certain definitions. Despite all the issues Ninjask encounters with distinguishing features of the RU metagame, there are also huge boons to be found from effectively overcoming these issues. RU supports an impressive amount of powerful tanks, including Aggron, Druddigon, Emboar, and more, all of whom are not only complete monsters with their Speed mitigated by Ninjask, but also retain the nautral natural bulk to circumvent issues with priority attacks quite nicely. In fact, successfully passing a Swords Dance boost in addition to a few Speed boosts to the appropriate sweeper can very well seal a game right then and there. However, in case it hasn't been made perfectly clear thus far, such a situation is very difficult to set up, and cannot simply be accomplished by leading off with Ninjask and boosting like a mad(remove space)man. Ninjask has the capacity to completely turn a game on its head, but in order for it to do so it requires significant support, proper prediction and judgment on the part of the user, and just a pinch of patience.</p>
    [SET]
    name: Base 160 Isn't Enough IMO
    (not sure what set name requirements are on smogon >_>)
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Toxic / Swords Dance
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Strictly speaking, this is the only set Ninjask should be running competitively. The concept behind this set is very simple on paper
    ,(RC) : (add colon) utilize Protect and Substitute to safely acquire Speed boosts, then proceed to pass them off to the appropriate sweeper. Substitute serves secondary purpose on this set as a buffer for both Ninjask and the recipient, protecting them from becoming compromised to status or contact-based phazing moves, such as Dragon Tail or Circle Throw, while also reducing the necessity for either to take strong hits. With that in mind, it is very rare that Ninjask has either the opportunity or the necessity to use anything other than its first three moves. That being said, Toxic is generally the most "useful" (unnecessary) move in the final slot; the cumulative chip damage Toxic provides not only synergizes nicely with the cycles of Substitute and Protect Ninjask commonly undergoes, but it can at times even force the opponent to switch out of necessity to preserve the poisoned Pokemon, which can open up a free turn for Ninjask to effectively pass off its boosts to a teammate safely. However, in terms of sheer potency, Swords Dance is far and away the most dangerous option; while it is very rare that Ninjask finds the opportunity to both set up a Swords Dance and bring in the proper recipient safely, the results can be devastating.</p>

    <p>A As straightforward as this process appears in theory, in practice it requires substantially more prediction on the part of the Ninjask user. While you can very well get up to +6 Speed by constantly using Protect and Substitute in succession, this not only wastes much more of Ninjask's HP than probably necessary, but it is also incredibly predictable, and that level of predictability which is very exploitable by a knowledgable knowledgeable opponent. A very simple and effective method of keeping the opponent on their toes is to avoid setting up to +6 under all but the most dire situations; it may sound odd to not acquire as many boosts as possible, but once Ninjask acquires all the Speed boosts it possibly can, it's left with nothing much else to do but attempt to Baton Pass, which makes it all the easier for the opponent to nail the switch-in with a powerful attack. It is very rare that a Pokemon needs all of those Speed boosts to outpace the entirety of the opponent's team, simply boosting to the necessary level both saves PP and HP for Ninjask and makes predicting the Baton Pass all the more difficult. Moreover, it is important to note that having a Substitute up when Ninjask attempts the Baton Pass should hold priority over almost everything else, even if this means sacrificing an extra Speed boost or two in doing so. Having a Substitute active not only completely protects the Baton Pass recipient from everything barring multi-hit attacks and certain non-attacking move that I might have otherwise struggled to switch in to (what is this? whatever it is, try to avoid first person. I would write a suggestion, but I don't really know what you're trying to say), but also gives it assurance against priority users and particularly fast Choice Scarf users afterwards, which effectively mitigates any Speed boosts that sweeper may have "lost" by forgoing the extra turns of boosting with Ninjask. While it isn't necessarily easy to find such an opportunity to set up and maintain a Substitute, by mixing up the use of Protect and Substitute, rather than simply alternating between the two, and setting up a Substitute immediately on Pokemon Ninjask could be potentially forcing out, such as Choice Specs Tangrowth and Choice Band Druddigon, Ninjask can do its recipient a much bigger favor than any extra one or two Speed boosts ever will be doing. While it might not be easy to set up and maintain a Substitute, using a random mixture of Protect and Substitute or setting up a Substitute immediately on a Pokemon Ninjask forces out means Ninjask will be able to do a lot more for its recipient than a few Speed boosts ever could. (this was really hard to rephrase, and my suggestion isn't exactly elegant either. Think it over?)</p>
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Ninjask's physical bulk in order for it to better take on priority attacks, with a Timid nature and 16 Speed EVs ensuring that it outpaces Aerodactyl without a boost, as well as Unburden Hitmonlee at +1. In terms of item choice, Leftovers is often preferable, as the passive recovery not only allows it to produce more consecutive Substitutes than it would otherwise, but also helps put it just outside the KO range of priority attacks, such as Entei's Extremespeed, by using Protect when necessary. However, due to the fact that Ninjask can very often only get a single opportunity to set up, other items that can open up more opportunities to set up aren't outside the realm of possibility. Lum Berry is one such example, as this allows Ninjask to more comfortably switch into defensively-inclined Pokemon, such as Clefable, Poliwrath, and Uxie, and proceed to accumulate boosts. Mental Herb gives Ninjask a chance to neutralize a single Taunt, allowing it to pick up a few more boosts against Pokemon such as Qwilfish, though the limited pool of effective Taunt users makes this a less consistently useful option than either Leftovers or Lum Berry. As elaborated upon prior, Ninjask has very little use for much beyond its first three moves, though this does mean its final moveslot can be effectively tinkered with to achieve different results depending on individual necessity. A STAB move, such as X-Scissor
    and or Aerial Ace, while not realistically making Ninjask any less vulnerable to Taunt, does offer Ninjask a method of dealing damage, which can at times prove useful for picking off weakened Grass- and Fighting-types it can occasionally switch into. Roost is also technically a possibility, as the ability to it could potentially increase Ninjask's lifespan to the point which it could attempt to pass boosts once more, though typically teams utilizing Ninjask are too fast-paced and offensive for the need to extend the match further.</p>
    <p>Since Ninjask is almost entirely support-based in terms of its role, it is more important to focus on what benefits the most from its abilities first and fore-(remove hyphen)most, rather than supporting it, when picking partners for it. The most appropriate partners for this role are those with high immediate power and the natural bulk and / or resistances necessary to comfortably stomach a priority move or even a weaker attack when switching in, with Ninjask's Speed boosts putting them comfortably outside the range of most Speed-reliant revenge-killers. Ideally, these Pokemon should retain good defensive synergy with Ninjask, in addition to possibly resisting common coverage options, as this makes predicting the Baton Pass more difficult, and thereby dangerous. There are many options for this, which include Aggron, Crawdaunt, Druddigon, Durant, and Emboar, and it would be in ones best interest to utilize multiple recipients in order to diversify the potential threats to best suit various different match-ups. Kabutops should be given special acknowledgment in this role, as it provides the option of Rapid Spin to give Ninjask a bigger window to set up mid-game. Lastly, and while it may seem excessive, Dual Screens support is a very realistic option for Swords Dance variants of Ninjask; passing a Swords Dance boost in addition to the standard Speed boosts can very often be game-ending if executed properly, and thusly very much worth the investment in Dual Screens. Uxie is the ideal partner for this role, as it can quickly set up screens, provide Stealth Rock support, and get out of the way via Memento, efficiently setting the stage for Ninjask to set up safely.</p>
    [Other Options]

    <p>With a Pokemon as single-minded and linear as Ninjask, expecting it to do anything more than its one designated job is optimistic to say the least. Options to try to make use of its abilities in an offensive manner, such as a
    CB Choice Band or offensive SD Swords Dance set could be utilized to some extent, though in the end Ninjask makes for a very mediocre sweeper on its own. Essentially, the one "other option" worth considering would be more a matter of context, rather than a different move or set, and that would be its use in a dedicated Baton Pass team. While Ninjask is generally better off serving as a means to supporting a powerful sweeper in the RU tier, it does remain the single best Speed booster for dedicated Baton Pass teams, which makes it a staple on such formats. However, due to a variety of factors, including a noticable noticeable lack of strong Baton Pass support and teammates, this strategy is typically inadvisable under most circumstances.</p>
    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Ninjask wears itself down to the point where it can be picked off by nearly anything while fulfilling its role, Pokemon that are capable of inhibiting it from successfully passing its boosts are the most accurate examples of counters. The most solid, as well as the most obvious, is phazing, as Pokemon such as Steelix and Mandibuzz are capable of completely preventing Ninjask from supporting its teammates. Contact-based phazing moves from Pokemon such as Druddigon and Poliwrath fall into this category, but their low PP, imperfect accuracy, and inability to phaze through Substitute makes
    it them substantially less effective. What's more, Haze Cryogonal can similarly neutralize Ninjask's boosts, while threatening it with a STAB Ice Beam, though its susceptibility to Toxic and inability to remove Substitute without attacking makes it possible to be played around. Qwilfish, being the premier Taunt user of the tier, is capable of restricting the number of boosts Ninjask can accumulate, as well as threatening to cripple the Baton Pass recipient with Thunder Wave if Ninjask failed fails to acquire a Substitute beforehand. Multi-hit move users, such as Cincinno, Piloswine, and Rhydon, are capable of circumventing Substitute and hitting both Ninjask and the recipient hard. Stealth Rock is naturally inhibiting to Ninjask, as it shaves off half of its HP upon every switch-(remove hyphen)in, restricting it to only one opportunity to set up at best. Moreover, by simply applying consistent offensive pressure to Ninjask, it is put in a very difficult position to safely pass off its boosts to a sweeper.</p>
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  11. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Woah why is the overview so long for such a bad mon? Anyways I have some additional changes before this gets GP'd.

    [Overview]
    • Ninjask isn't potent in any tier and hasn't ever been iirc.
    • It should just be describing how Ninjask's only niche is Baton Pass, but it struggles greatly with succeeding due to many factors which you have mentioned.
    • You keep saying "what's more" xD so make it sound kinda less like a list.
    • Basically the second paragraph oversells the mon, and you can get rid of it entirely and probably add 1 sentence (2 max) to the first paragraph. Recipients can be listed in AC instead of the overview.
    [SET]
    • I've never seen Toxic on Ninjask. Swords Dance should definitely be in the first slot and Toxic probably in AC. As you said in the Overview, you can't do much in RU with just Speed boosts, so I think it's crucial the SD is the first move in slot 4.
    • You need to say something to the effect of "don't use this mon until you eliminate phazers, priority, multi hitters, etc. or it won't do anything."

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Crustle

    In the future for overviews, don't format it like: para 1 - the good, 2 - the bad, "...despite this you should still consider x..." Simply just describe the Pokemon's role in the meta while implying how good or bad it is.
  12. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    col49
    Not QC, but like what Dittocrow said, the revamp was also supposed to reduce the hype that the original ninjask overview had. ffs it's not even RU, and it should be toned down imo :)
    I'd implement piikachuuu's check.
    Also,
    Imo this should go first. While it is true that Ninjask leads, the reason it is a lead is that later on it isn't nearly effective BECAUSE of stealth rock, and something like that should be applied imo.
  13. col49

    col49 what.
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    Sorry for being so slow to respond to stuff, been taking on a lot of extra hours recently and other issues irl just keep rolling in =( Anyway, thanks for the input DC, I was a bit iffy on some of the stuff as it was tbh, but I didn't get any feedback 'til now that said otherwise upon asking, so meh. I'll rephrase the Overview to be a little more concise, the whole "what's more" repetition is probably due to me arbitrarily snipping down sections beforehand lol. Personally I appreciate Toxic much more than SD in application, and would like to at least keep it as a main slash, but I'll definitely swap it with SD. Also, I'm inclined to disagree with your last point, at least on the matter of priority users; considering that I both stress that the Ninjask user should be prioritizing setting an intact sub and state that most recipients should be able to handle priority moderately well, with priority attacks being one of the more significant reasons, I believe that's covered to the point that priority isn't an issue to the extent where it "won't do anything" without it gone. The other two I definitely agree with, idk why I didn't mention it honestly (well, DTail and Circle Throw users are easy to beat, but other instances are still a thing :> ). Also added Crustle to the multi-hit users section of C&C. Sorry for the overview coming across as very "the good, the bad", like I said, I did a lot of snipping w/out taking into account the end result, and it turned out pretty gross x_x

    As for the point about SR, while I definitely understand where it's coming from, I'm somewhat against moving it up. Basically, the presence of SR, while definitely hindering Ninjask, doesn't necessarily prevent it from completing its job nearly as effectively as any of the 'mons listed; Ninjask already is only getting about 1 opportunity to set up anyway, the only thing SR does is put a "physical limit" on it. If other people want to chime in on this, I'm always open to input, though in my experiences with Ninjask I haven't really felt the need to list it so high.

    Oh, and lastly, I did my best to salvage what parts of piiiikachuuu's check that were still applicable, since who am I to let all that hard work go to waste (seriously GP gaiz, I luv you all for putting up with my atrocious writing and / or grammar <3 ). Also sorry if I spelled your name wrong, something about all those "i"'s disagreed with one disorder or another x_x

    Think I covered everything there, be sure to follow up with me either here, in pm / vm, or maybe on irc (think I actually have "free time" atm :O ) if you have any issues you wish to discuss n_n
  14. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    QC Approved 4/3 I guess lgi GP
  15. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Amcheck ^_^
    Additions
    Removals
    Comments


    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Despite its unique role as a Pokemon, Ninjask struggles as a Pokemon in RU, for reasons both inherent to itself and to the tier as a whole. Ninjask's ability to passively acquire Speed boosts and Baton Pass them, along with any other secondary buffs acquired in the process, immediately establishes a niche in the tier, though this doesn't necessarily make it a simple task. Bug / Flying is a very unappealing typing defensively, retaining a series of weaknesses to common attacking types (as well as a dangerous Stealth Rock weakness), and 61 / 45 / 50 defenses aren't doing much to mitigate this issue. The inherently bulky nature of the metagame means that Speed boosts often aren't enough for a Pokemon to consistently sweep, meaning that Ninjask often has to either prioritize passing Swords Dance boosts (a role it doesn't perform nearly as well as that of a speed passer) to a partner for it to apply the offensive pressure necessary to wear down the common defensive cores of the tier or resign itself to use in the mid- to late-game in order to find a window in which its abilities become pertinent for a sweeper to effectively clean up. Furthermore, the omnipresence of priority users, such as Entei, Kabutops, and Spiritomb, make both passing and receiving boosts a much more difficult task, forcing the Ninjask user to carefully plan their Baton Pass. Even after all that, there are still multi-hit move users and phazers that can almost completely stop any given Ninjask set-(remove hyphen; no space)up, forcing to often reserve itself until mid-game to have any impact on the match. Ninjask is a very capable supporter of a plethora of potent Pokemon in RU, but in order it to excel in this role, it requires significant support, proper prediction and judgment on the part of the user, and just a pinch of patience.</p>

    [SET]
    (line break)
    name: Base 160 Isn't Enough IMO
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Swords Dance / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Strictly speaking, this is the only set Ninjask should be running competitively. The concept behind this set is very simple on paper: utilize Protect and Substitute to safely acquire Speed boosts, then proceed to pass them off to the appropriate sweeper. Substitute serves secondary purpose on this set as a buffer for both Ninjask and the recipient, protecting them from becoming compromised to status or contact-based phazing moves, such as Dragon Tail or Circle Throw, while also reducing the necessity for either to take strong hits. With that in mind, it is very rare that Ninjask has either the opportunity or the necessity to use anything other than its first three moves. In terms of sheer potency, Swords Dance is far and away the most dangerous option&mdash; while it is very rare that Ninjask finds the opportunity to both set up a Swords Dance and bring in the proper recipient safely, the results can be devastating. In contrast, while not nearly as threatening as Swords Dance, Toxic is a useful and self-sufficient option for Ninjask. The cumulative chip damage Toxic provides not only synergizes nicely with the cycles of Substitute and Protect Ninjask commonly undergoes, but it can at times even force the opponent to switch out of necessity to preserve the poisoned Pokemon, which can open up a free turn for Ninjask to effectively pass off its boosts to a teammate safely.</p>

    <p>As straightforward as this process appears in theory, in practice it requires substantially more prediction on the part of the Ninjask user. While you can very well get up to +6 Speed by constantly using Protect and Substitute in succession, this not only wastes much more of Ninjask's HP than probably necessary, but it is also incredibly predictable, which is very exploitable by a knowledgeable opponent. A very simple and effective method of keeping the opponent on their toes is to avoid setting up to +6 under all but the most dire situations&mdash; it may sound odd to not acquire as many boosts as possible, but once Ninjask acquires all the Speed boosts it possibly can, it's left with nothing much else to do but attempt to Baton Pass, which makes it all the easier for the opponent to nail the switch-in with a powerful attack. It is very rare that a Pokemon needs all of those Speed boosts to outpace the entirety of the opponent's team, simply boosting to the necessary level both saves PP and HP for Ninjask and makes predicting the Baton Pass all the more difficult. Moreover, it is important to note that having a Substitute up when Ninjask attempts the Baton Pass should hold priority over almost everything else, even if this means sacrificing an extra Speed boost or two in doing so. Having a Substitute active not only completely protects the Baton Pass recipient from everything barring multi-hit attacks and certain non-attacking move that it might have otherwise struggled to switch in to, but also gives it assurance against priority users and particularly fast Choice Scarf users afterwards, which effectively mitigates any Speed boosts that sweeper may have "lost" by forgoing the extra turns of boosting with Ninjask. While it isn't necessarily easy to maintain a Substitute, by mixing up the use of Protect and Substitute, rather than simply alternating between the two, Ninjask can do its recipient a much bigger favor than any extra one or two Speed boosts ever will be doing. However, it should be noted that without users of phazing or multi-hit moves already previously disposed of, these boosts are practically forfeit, as such Pokemon can quickly neutralize Ninjask or its recipient.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Ninjask's physical bulk in order for it to better take on priority attacks, with a Timid nature and 16 Speed EVs ensuring that it outpaces Aerodactyl without a boost, as well as Unburden Hitmonlee at +1. In terms of item choice, Leftovers is often preferable, as the passive recovery not only allows it to produce more consecutive Substitutes than it would otherwise, but also helps put it just outside the KO range of priority attacks, such as Entei's Extremespeed, by using Protect when necessary. However, due to the fact that Ninjask can very often only get a single opportunity to set up, other items that can open up more opportunities to set up aren't outside the realm of possibility. Lum Berry is one such example, as this allows Ninjask to more comfortably switch into defensively-inclined Pokemon, such as Clefable, Poliwrath, and Uxie, and proceed to accumulate boosts. Mental Herb gives Ninjask a chance to neutralize a single Taunt, allowing it to pick up a few more boosts against Pokemon such as Qwilfish, though the limited pool of effective Taunt users makes this a less consistently useful option than either Leftovers or Lum Berry. As elaborated upon prior, Ninjask has very little use for much beyond its first three moves, though this does mean its final moveslot can be effectively tinkered with to achieve different results depending on individual necessity. A STAB move, such as X-Scissor or Aerial Ace, while not realistically making Ninjask any less vulnerable to Taunt, does offer Ninjask a method of dealing damage, which can at times prove useful for picking off weakened Grass- and Fighting-types it can occasionally switch into. Roost is also technically a possibility, as it could potentially increase Ninjask's lifespan to the point which it could attempt to pass boosts once more, though typically teams utilizing Ninjask are too fast-(space)paced and offensive for the need to extend the match further.</p>

    <p>Since Ninjask is almost entirely support-based in terms of its role, it is more important to focus on what benefits the most from its abilities first and foremost, rather than supporting it, when picking partners for it. The most appropriate partners for this role are those with high immediate power and the natural bulk and / (never use slashes for this sort of stuff) or resistances necessary to comfortably stomach a priority move or even a weaker attack when switching in, with Ninjask's Speed boosts putting them comfortably outside the range of most Speed-reliant revenge-(space)killers. Ideally, these Pokemon should retain good defensive synergy with Ninjask, in addition to possibly resisting common coverage options, as this makes predicting the Baton Pass more difficult, and thereby dangerous. There are many options for this, which include Aggron, Crawdaunt, Druddigon, Durant, and Emboar, and it would be in ones best interest to utilize multiple recipients in order to diversify the potential threats to best suit various different match-(remove hyphen and no space)ups. Kabutops should be given special acknowledgment in this role, as it provides the option of Rapid Spin to give Ninjask a bigger window to set up mid-game. Lastly, and while it may seem excessive, Ddual Sscreens support is a very realistic option for Swords Dance variants of Ninjask&mdash; passing a Swords Dance boost in addition to the standard Speed boosts can very often be game-ending if executed properly, and thus very much worth the investment in Ddual Sscreens. Uxie is the ideal partner for this role, as it can quickly set up screens, provide Stealth Rock support, and get out of the way via Memento, efficiently setting the stage for Ninjask to set up safely.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With a Pokemon as single-minded and linear as Ninjask, expecting it to do anything more than its one designated job is optimistic to say the least. Options to try to make use of its abilities in an offensive manner, such as a Choice Band or offensive Swords Dance set could be utilized to some extent, though in the end Ninjask makes for a very mediocre sweeper on its own. Essentially, the one other option worth considering would be more a matter of context, rather than a different move or set, and that would be its use in a dedicated Baton Pass team. While Ninjask is generally better off serving as a means to supporting a powerful sweeper in the RU tier, it does remain the single best Speed booster for dedicated Baton Pass teams, which makes it a staple on such formats. However, due to a variety of factors, including a noticeable lack of strong Baton Pass support and teammates, this strategy is typically inadvisable under most circumstances.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Ninjask wears itself down to the point where it can be picked off by nearly anything while fulfilling its role, Pokemon that are capable of inhibiting it from successfully passing its boosts are the most accurate examples of counters. The most solid, as well as the most obvious, is phazing, as Pokemon such as Steelix and Mandibuzz are capable of completely preventing Ninjask from supporting its teammates. Contact-based phazing moves from Pokemon such as Druddigon and Poliwrath fall into this category, but their low PP, imperfect accuracy, and inability to phaze through Substitute makes them substantially less effective. What's more, Haze Cryogonal can similarly neutralize Ninjask's boosts, while threatening it with a STAB Ice Beam, though its susceptibility to Toxic and inability to remove Substitute without attacking makes it possible to be played around. Qwilfish, being the premier Taunt user of the tier, is capable of restricting the number of boosts Ninjask can accumulate, as well as threatening to cripple the Baton Pass recipient with Thunder Wave if Ninjask fails to acquire a Substitute beforehand. Multi-hit move users, such as Cincinno, Crustle, Piloswine, and Rhydon, are capable of circumventing Substitute and hitting both Ninjask and the recipient hard. Stealth Rock is naturally inhibiting to Ninjask, as it shaves off half of its HP upon every switch in, restricting it to only one opportunity to set up at best. Moreover, by simply applying consistent offensive pressure to Ninjask, it is put in a very difficult position to safely pass off its boosts to a sweeper.</p>

    By the way, is it agreed to be 'contact-based' or contact based?
    Since the grammar says
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  16. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    Contact-based, no hyphen if it's an adverb only

    Not a complete check, just going over this. Anything I haven't commented upon, please implement that change. Also do remember that &mdash; has no space after it (it should be "Swords Dance is far and away the most dangerous option&mdash;while it is very rare")

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Despite its unique role as a Pokemon, Ninjask struggles as a Pokemon in RU, for reasons both inherent to itself and to the tier as a whole. Ninjask's ability to passively acquire Speed boosts and Baton Pass them, along with any other secondary buffs acquired in the process, immediately establishes a niche in the tier, though this doesn't necessarily make it a simple task. Bug / Flying is a very unappealing typing defensively, retaining a series of weaknesses to common attacking types (as well as a dangerous Stealth Rock weakness), and 61 / 45 / 50 defenses aren't doing much to mitigate this issue. The inherently bulky nature of the metagame means that Speed boosts often aren't enough for a Pokemon to consistently sweep, meaning that Ninjask often has to either prioritize passing Swords Dance boosts (a role it doesn't perform nearly as well as that of a speed passer) to a partner for it to apply the offensive pressure necessary to wear down the common defensive cores of the tier or resign itself to use in the mid- to late-game in order to find a window in which its abilities become pertinent for a sweeper to effectively clean up. Furthermore, the omnipresence of priority users, such as Entei, Kabutops, and Spiritomb, make both passing and receiving boosts a much more difficult task, forcing the Ninjask user to carefully plan their Baton Pass. Even after all that, there are still multi-hit move users and phazers that can almost completely stop any given Ninjask set-(remove hyphen; no space)up, forcing to often reserve itself until mid-game to have any impact on the match. Ninjask is a very capable supporter of a plethora of potent Pokemon in RU, but in order it to excel in this role, it requires significant support, proper prediction and judgment on the part of the user, and just a pinch of patience.</p>

    [SET]
    (line break)
    name: Base 160 Isn't Enough IMO
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Swords Dance / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Strictly speaking, this is the only set Ninjask should be running competitively. The concept behind this set is very simple on paper: utilize Protect and Substitute to safely acquire Speed boosts, then proceed to pass them off to the appropriate sweeper. Substitute serves secondary purpose on this set as a buffer for both Ninjask and the recipient, protecting them from becoming compromised to status or contact-based phazing moves, such as Dragon Tail or Circle Throw, while also reducing the necessity for either to take strong hits. With that in mind, it is very rare that Ninjask has either the opportunity or the necessity to use anything other than its first three moves. In terms of sheer potency, Swords Dance is far and away the most dangerous option&mdash; while it is very rare that Ninjask finds the opportunity to both set up a Swords Dance and bring in the proper recipient safely, the results can be devastating. In contrast, while not nearly as threatening as Swords Dance, Toxic is a useful and self-sufficient option for Ninjask. The cumulative chip damage Toxic provides not only synergizes nicely with the cycles of Substitute and Protect Ninjask commonly undergoes, but it can at times even force the opponent to switch out of necessity to preserve the poisoned Pokemon, which can open up a free turn for Ninjask to effectively pass off its boosts to a teammate safely.</p>

    <p>As straightforward as this process appears in theory, in practice it requires substantially more prediction on the part of the Ninjask user. While you can very well get up to +6 Speed by constantly using Protect and Substitute in succession, this not only wastes much more of Ninjask's HP than probably necessary, but it is also incredibly predictable, which is very exploitable by a knowledgeable opponent. A very simple and effective method of keeping the opponent on their toes is to avoid setting up to +6 under all but the most dire situations&mdash; it may sound odd to not acquire as many boosts as possible, but once Ninjask acquires all the Speed boosts it possibly can, it's left with nothing much else to do but attempt to Baton Pass, which makes it all the easier for the opponent to nail the switch-in with a powerful attack. It is very rare that a Pokemon needs all of those Speed boosts to outpace the entirety of the opponent's team, simply boosting to the necessary level both saves PP and HP for Ninjask and makes predicting the Baton Pass all the more difficult. Moreover, it is important to note that having a Substitute up when Ninjask attempts the Baton Pass should hold priority over almost everything else, even if this means sacrificing an extra Speed boost or two in doing so. Having a Substitute active not only completely protects the Baton Pass recipient from everything barring multi-hit attacks and certain non-attacking move that it might have otherwise struggled to switch in to, but also gives it assurance against priority users and particularly fast Choice Scarf users afterwards, which effectively mitigates any Speed boosts that sweeper may have "lost" by forgoing the extra turns of boosting with Ninjask. While it isn't necessarily easy to maintain a Substitute, by mixing up the use of Protect and Substitute, rather than simply alternating between the two, Ninjask can do its recipient a much bigger favor than any extra one or two Speed boosts ever will be doing. However, it should be noted that without users of phazing or multi-hit moves already previously disposed of, these boosts are practically forfeit, as such Pokemon can quickly neutralize Ninjask or its recipient.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Ninjask's physical bulk in order for it to better take on priority attacks, with a Timid nature and 16 Speed EVs ensuring that it outpaces Aerodactyl without a boost, as well as Unburden Hitmonlee at +1. In terms of item choice, Leftovers is often preferable, as the passive recovery not only allows it to produce more consecutive Substitutes than it would otherwise, but also helps put it just outside the KO range of priority attacks, such as Entei's Extremespeed, by using Protect when necessary. However, due to the fact that Ninjask can very often only get a single opportunity to set up, other items that can open up more opportunities to set up aren't outside the realm of possibility. Lum Berry is one such example, as this allows Ninjask to more comfortably switch into defensively-inclined Pokemon, such as Clefable, Poliwrath, and Uxie, and proceed to accumulate boosts. Mental Herb gives Ninjask a chance to neutralize a single Taunt, allowing it to pick up a few more boosts against Pokemon such as Qwilfish, though the limited pool of effective Taunt users makes this a less consistently useful option than either Leftovers or Lum Berry. As elaborated upon prior, Ninjask has very little use for much beyond its first three moves, though this does mean its final moveslot can be effectively tinkered with to achieve different results depending on individual necessity. A STAB move, such as X-Scissor or Aerial Ace, while not realistically making Ninjask any less vulnerable to Taunt, does offer Ninjask a method of dealing damage, which can at times prove useful for picking off weakened Grass- and Fighting-types it can occasionally switch into. Roost is also technically a possibility, as it could potentially increase Ninjask's lifespan to the point which it could attempt to pass boosts once more, though typically teams utilizing Ninjask are too fast-(space)paced DON'T implement this and offensive for the need to extend the match further.</p>

    <p>Since Ninjask is almost entirely support-based in terms of its role, it is more important to focus on what benefits the most from its abilities first and foremost, rather than supporting it, when picking partners for it. The most appropriate partners for this role are those with high immediate power and the natural bulk and / (never use slashes for this sort of stuff) DON'T implement this or resistances necessary to comfortably stomach a priority move or even a weaker attack when switching in, with Ninjask's Speed boosts putting them comfortably outside the range of most Speed-reliant revenge-(space)killers. Ideally, these Pokemon should retain good defensive synergy with Ninjask, in addition to possibly resisting common coverage options, as this makes predicting the Baton Pass more difficult, and thereby dangerous. There are many options for this, which include Aggron, Crawdaunt, Druddigon, Durant, and Emboar, and it would be in ones best interest to utilize multiple recipients in order to diversify the potential threats to best suit various different match-(remove hyphen and no space)ups. Remove the hyphen, but keep it as one word Kabutops should be given special acknowledgment in this role, as it provides the option of Rapid Spin to give Ninjask a bigger window to set up mid-game. Lastly, and while it may seem excessive, Ddual Sscreens support is a very realistic option for Swords Dance variants of Ninjask&mdash; passing a Swords Dance boost in addition to the standard Speed boosts can very often be game-ending if executed properly, and thus very much worth the investment in Ddual Sscreens. Uxie is the ideal partner for this role, as it can quickly set up screens, provide Stealth Rock support, and get out of the way via Memento, efficiently setting the stage for Ninjask to set up safely.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With a Pokemon as single-minded and linear as Ninjask, expecting it to do anything more than its one designated job is optimistic to say the least. Options to try to make use of its abilities in an offensive manner, such as a Choice Band or offensive Swords Dance set, (AC) could be utilized to some extent, though in the end Ninjask makes for a very mediocre sweeper on its own. Essentially, the one other option worth considering would be more a matter of context, rather than a different move or set, and that would be its use in a dedicated Baton Pass team. While Ninjask is generally better off serving as a means to supporting a powerful sweeper in the RU tier, it does remain the single best Speed booster for dedicated Baton Pass teams, which makes it a staple on such formats. However, due to a variety of factors, including a noticeable lack of strong Baton Pass support and teammates, this strategy is typically inadvisable under most circumstances.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Ninjask wears itself down to the point where it can be picked off by nearly anything while fulfilling its role, Pokemon that are capable of inhibiting it from successfully passing its boosts are the most accurate examples of counters. The most solid, as well as the most obvious, is phazing, as Pokemon such as Steelix and Mandibuzz are capable of completely preventing Ninjask from supporting its teammates. Contact-based phazing moves from Pokemon such as Druddigon and Poliwrath fall into this category, but their low PP, imperfect accuracy, and inability to phaze through Substitute makes them substantially less effective. What's more, Haze Cryogonal can similarly neutralize Ninjask's boosts, while threatening it with a STAB Ice Beam, though its susceptibility to Toxic and inability to remove Substitute without attacking makes it possible to be played around. Qwilfish, being the premier Taunt user of the tier, is capable of restricting the number of boosts Ninjask can accumulate, as well as threatening to cripple the Baton Pass recipient with Thunder Wave if Ninjask fails to acquire a Substitute beforehand. Multi-hit move users, such as Cincinno, Crustle, Piloswine, and Rhydon, are capable of circumventing Substitute and hitting both Ninjask and the recipient hard. Stealth Rock is naturally inhibiting to Ninjask, as it shaves off half of its HP upon every switch-in, restricting it to only one opportunity to set up at best. Moreover, by simply applying consistent offensive pressure to Ninjask, it is put in a very difficult position to safely pass off its boosts to a sweeper.</p>

    My changes+kinglers+piikachuu's can bring this to 1/2. Kingler's check by itself is not 1/2 though

    1/2
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  17. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    GatoDelFuego should there be a space between [SET] and the set itself? i've been removing those spaces >_>
  18. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

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    there shouldn't be a space
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  19. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    May 29, 2011
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    col49 let's keep this moving along!
  20. col49

    col49 what.
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    ugh, sorry for taking forever guys, irl stuff boggin' me down a ton :[ implemented everything, let's get this done haha
  21. Lukie

    Lukie

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    [Overview]

    <p>Despite its unique role as a Pokemon, Ninjask struggles as a Pokemon in RU, for reasons both inherent to itself and to the tier as a whole. Ninjask's ability to passively acquire Speed boosts and Baton Pass them, along with any other secondary buffs acquired in the process, immediately establishes a niche in the tier, though this doesn't necessarily make it a simple task. Bug / Flying is a very unappealing typing defensively, retaining a series of weaknesses to common attacking types (as well as a dangerous Stealth Rock weakness), and 61 / 45 / 50 defenses aren't doing much to mitigate this issue. The inherently bulky nature of the metagame means that Speed boosts often aren't enough for a Pokemon to consistently sweep, meaning that Ninjask often has to either prioritize passing Swords Dance boosts (a role it doesn't perform nearly as well as that of a speed passer) to a partner for it to apply the offensive pressure necessary to wear down the common defensive cores of the tier or resign itself to use in the mid- to late-game in order to find a window in which its abilities become pertinent for a sweeper to effectively clean up. Furthermore, the omnipresence of priority users, such as Entei, Kabutops, and Spiritomb, make both passing and receiving boosts a much more difficult task, forcing the Ninjask user to carefully plan their Baton Pass. Even after all that, there are still multi-hit move users and phazers that can almost completely stop any given Ninjask setup, forcing it to often reserve itself until mid-game to have any impact on the match. Ninjask is a very capable supporter of a plethora of potent Pokemon in RU, but in order it to excel in this role, it requires significant support, proper prediction and,(AC) judgment on the part of the user, and just a pinch of patience.</p>




    [SET]
    (remove line break)

    name: Base 160 Isn't Enough IMO
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Swords Dance / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Strictly speaking, this is the only set Ninjask should be running competitively. The concept behind this set is very simple on paper: utilize Protect and Substitute to safely acquire Speed boosts, then proceed to pass them off to the appropriate sweeper. Substitute serves a secondary purpose on this set as a buffer for both Ninjask and the recipient, protecting them from becoming compromised to status or contact-based phazing moves, such as Dragon Tail or Circle Throw, while also reducing the chanecessity ("Necessity" isn't the correct word to use here; correct me if you think I misunderstood something) for either to take strong hits. With that in mind, it is very rare that Ninjask has either the opportunity or the necessity to use anything other than its first three moves. In terms of sheer potency, Swords Dance is far and away the most dangerous option&mdash;(remove space) while it is very rare that Ninjask finds the opportunity to both set up a Swords Dance and bring in the proper recipient safely, the results can be devastating. In contrast, while not nearly as threatening as Swords Dance, Toxic is a useful and self-sufficient option for Ninjask. The cumulative chip damage Toxic provides not only synergizes nicely with the cycles of Substitute and Protect Ninjask commonly undergoes, but it can,(AC) at times,(AC) even force the opponent to switch out of necessity to preserve the poisoned Pokemon, which can open up a free turn for Ninjask to effectively pass off its boosts to a teammate safely.</p>

    <p>As straightforward as this process appears in theory, in practice it requires substantially more prediction on the part of the Ninjask user in practice. While you can very well get up to +6 Speed by constantly using Protect and Substitute in succession, this not only wastes much more of Ninjask's HP than probably necessary, but it is also incredibly predictable, which is very exploitable by a knowledgeable opponent. A very simple and effective method of keeping the opponent on their toes is to avoid setting up to +6 under all but the most dire situations&mdash;(remove space) it mayight sound odd to not acquire as many boosts as possible, but once Ninjask acquires all the Speed boosts it possibly can, it's left with nothing much else to do but attempt to Baton Pass, which makes it all the easier for the opponent to nail the switch-in with a powerful attack. It is very rare that a Pokemon needs all of those Speed boosts to outpace the entirety of the opponent's team, simply boosting to the necessary level both saves PP and HP for Ninjask and makes predicting the Baton Pass all the more difficult. Moreover, it is important to note that having a Substitute up when Ninjask attempts the Baton Pass should hold priority over almost everything else, even if this means sacrificing an extra Speed boost or two in doing so. Having a Substitute active not only completely protects the Baton Pass recipient from everything barring multi-hit attacks and certain non-attacking moves(add s) that it might have otherwise struggled to switch in to, but also gives it assurance against priority users and particularly fast Choice Scarf users afterwards, which effectively mitigates any Speed boosts that the sweeper mayight have "lost" by forgoing the extra turns of boosting with Ninjask. While it isn't necessarily easy to maintain a Substitute, by mixing up the use of Protect and Substitute, rather than simply alternating between the two, Ninjask can do its recipient a much bigger favor than any extra one or two Speed boosts ever will be doing. However, it should be noted that without users of phazing or multi-hit moves already previously disposed of, these boosts are practically forfeit, as such Pokemon can quickly neutralize Ninjask or its recipient.</p>



    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Ninjask's physical bulk in order for it to better take on priority attacks, with a Timid nature and 16 Speed EVs ensuring that it outpaces Aerodactyl without a boost, as well as Unburden Hitmonlee at +1. In terms of item choice, Leftovers is often preferable, as the passive recovery not only allows it to produce more consecutive Substitutes than it would otherwise, but also helps put it just outside the KO range of priority attacks,(RC) such as Entei's ExtremesSpeed,(RC) by using Protect when necessary. However, due to the fact that Ninjask can very often only get a single opportunity to set up, other items that can open up more opportunities to set up aren't outside the realm of possibility. Lum Berry is one such example, as this allows Ninjask to more comfortably switch into defensively-inclined Pokemon, such as Clefable, Poliwrath, and Uxie, and proceed to accumulate boosts. Mental Herb gives Ninjask a chance to neutralize a single Taunt, allowing it to pick up a few more boosts against Pokemon such as Qwilfish, though the limited pool of effective Taunt users makes this a less consistently useful option than either Leftovers or Lum Berry. As elaborated upon prioearlier, Ninjask has very little use for much beyond its first three moves, though this does mean its final moveslot can be effectively tinkered with to achieve different results depending on individual necessityies. A STAB move, such as X-Scissor or Aerial Ace, while not realistically making Ninjask any less vulnerable to Taunt, does offer Ninjask a method of dealing damage, which can at times prove useful for picking off weakened Grass- and Fighting-types it can occasionally switch into. Roost is also technically a possibility, as it could potentially increase Ninjask's lifespan to the point which it could attempt to pass boosts once more, though typically teams utilizing Ninjask are too fast-paced and offensive for the need to extend the match further.</p>

    <p>Since Ninjask is almost entirely support-based in terms of its role, it is more important to focus on what benefits the most from its abilities first and foremost, rather than supporting it, when picking partners for it. The most appropriate partners for this role are those with high immediate power and the natural bulk and(remove space) /(remove space) or resistances necessary to comfortably stomach a priority move or even a weaker attack when switching in, with Ninjask's Speed boosts putting them comfortably outside the range of most Speed-reliant revenge killers. Ideally, these Pokemon should retain good defensive synergy with Ninjask,(RC) in addition to possibly resisting common coverage options, as this makes predicting the Baton Pass more difficult, and thereby dangerous. There are many options for this, which include Aggron, Crawdaunt, Druddigon, Durant, and Emboar, and it would be in ones best interest to utilize multiple recipients in order to diversify the potential threats to best suit various different match -(hyphen)ups. Kabutops should be given special acknowledgment in this role, as it provides the option of Rapid Spin to give Ninjask a bigger window to set up mid-game. Lastly, and while it mayight seem excessive, dual screens support is a very realistic option for Swords Dance variants of Ninjask&mdash;(remove space) passing a Swords Dance boost in addition to the standard Speed boosts can very often be game-ending if executed properly, and thus very much worth the investment in dual screens. Uxie is the ideal partner for this role, as it can quickly set up screens, provide Stealth Rock support, and get out of the way via Memento, efficiently setting the stage for Ninjask to set up safely.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With a Pokemon as single-minded and linear as Ninjask, expecting it to do anything more than its one designated job is optimistic to say the least. Options to try to make use of its abilities in an offensive manner, such as a Choice Band or offensive Swords Dance set, could be utilized to some extent, though in the end,(AC) Ninjask makes for a very mediocre sweeper on its own. Essentially, the one other option worth considering would be more a matter of context, rather than a different move or set, and that would be its use in a dedicated Baton Pass team. While Ninjask is generally better off serving as a means to supporting a powerful sweeper in the RU tier, it does remain the single best Speed booster for dedicated Baton Pass teams, which makes it a staple on such formats. However, due to a variety of factors, including a noticeable lack of strong Baton Pass support and teammates, this strategy is typically inadvisable under most circumstances.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Ninjask wears itself down to the point where it can be picked off by nearly anything while fulfilling its role, Pokemon that are capable of inhibiting it from successfully passing its boosts are the most accurate examples of counters. The most solid, as well as the most obvious, is phazing, as Pokemon such as Steelix and Mandibuzz are capable of completely preventing Ninjask from supporting its teammates. Contact-based phazing moves from Pokemon such as Druddigon and Poliwrath fall into this category, but their low PP, imperfect accuracy, and inability to phaze through Substitute makes them substantially less effective. What's more, Haze Cryogonal can similarly neutralize Ninjask's boosts, while also threatening it with a STAB Ice Beam, though its susceptibility to Toxic and inability to remove Substitute without attacking makes it possible to be played around. Qwilfish, being the premier Taunt user of the tier, is capable of restricting the number of boosts Ninjask can accumulate, as well as threatening to cripple the Baton Pass recipient with Thunder Wave if Ninjask fails to acquire a Substitute beforehand. Multi-hit move users, such as Cincinno, Crustle, Piloswine, and Rhydon, are capable of circumventing Substitute and hitting both Ninjask and the recipient hard. Stealth Rock is naturally inhibiting to Ninjask, as it shaves off half of its HP upon every switch-in, restricting it to only one opportunity to set up at best. Moreover, by simply applying consistent offensive pressure to Ninjask, it is put in a very difficult position to safely pass off its boosts to a sweeper.</p>


    Great job col49, if you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
  22. col49

    col49 what.
    is a Contributor to Smogon
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    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,059
    Alright, thanks for the am check Lukie, implemented a fair sum of it (some edits conflict with prior checks and what I believe to be the current GP standards, so I'd like some additional input on those :> ). As for the necessity bit, the idea is that without Substitute, both Ninjask and its recipient will undoubtedly be put in a position where there would have to sponge an attack or two, therefore such a scenario can hardly be considered as just a "chance". Hope that makes sense haha
    Lukie likes this.
  23. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple
    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Despite its unique role as a Pokemon, Ninjask struggles as a Pokemon in RU, (remove comma) for reasons both inherent to itself and to the tier as a whole. Ninjask's ability to passively acquire Speed boosts and Baton Pass them, along with any other secondary buffs acquired in the process, though not necessarily a simple task, immediately establishes a niche in the tier, though this doesn't necessarily make it a simple task. Bug / Flying is a very unappealing typing defensively, retaining possessing a series of weaknesses to common attacking types (as well as a dangerous Stealth Rock weakness), and 61 / 45 / 50 defenses aren't doing much to mitigate this issue. The inherently bulky nature of the metagame means that Speed boosts often aren't enough for a Pokemon to consistently sweep, meaning that Ninjask often has to either prioritize passing Swords Dance boosts (a role it doesn't perform nearly as well as that of a speed Speed passer) to a partner for it to apply the offensive pressure necessary to wear down the common defensive cores of the tier or resign itself to use in the mid- to late-game in order to find a window in which its abilities become pertinent for a sweeper to effectively clean up. Furthermore, the omnipresence of priority users, such as Entei, Kabutops, and Spiritomb, make both passing and receiving boosts a much more difficult task, forcing the Ninjask user to carefully plan their Baton Pass. Even after all that, there are still multi-hit move users and phazers that can almost completely stop any given Ninjask setup, often forcing it to reserve itself until mid-game to have any impact on the match. Ninjask is a very capable supporter of a plethora of potent Pokemon in RU, but in order it to excel in this role, it requires significant support, proper prediction and judgment on the part of the user, and just a pinch of patience.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Base 160 Isn't Enough IMO
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Swords Dance / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Speed Boost
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Strictly speaking, this is the only set Ninjask should be running competitively. The concept behind this set is very simple on paper: utilize Protect and Substitute to safely acquire Speed boosts, then proceed to pass them off to the appropriate sweeper. Substitute a serves a secondary purpose on this set as a buffer for both Ninjask and the recipient, protecting them from becoming compromised to by status or contact-based phazing moves, such as Dragon Tail or and Circle Throw, while also reducing the necessity for either to take strong hits. With that in mind, it is very rare that Ninjask has either the opportunity or the necessity to use anything other than its first three moves. (add some sort of transition between here and talking about the choices for fourth moves; maybe something like "However,the move used in the fourth slot does affect yada yada yada...") In terms of sheer potency, Swords Dance is far and away the most dangerous option&mdash;while it is very rare that Ninjask finds the opportunity to both set up a Swords Dance and bring in the proper recipient safely, the results can be devastating. In contrast On the other hand, while not nearly as threatening as Swords Dance, Toxic is a useful and self-sufficient option for Ninjask. The cumulative chip damage Toxic provides not only synergizes nicely with the cycles of Substitute and Protect Ninjask commonly undergoes, (remove comma) but it can, at times, even force the opponent to switch out of necessity to preserve the poisoned Pokemon, which can open up a free turn for Ninjask to effectively pass off its boosts to a teammate safely.</p>

    <p>As straightforward as this process appears in theory, it requires substantially more prediction on the part of the Ninjask user in practice. While you can very well get up to +6 Speed by constantly using Protect and Substitute in succession, this not only wastes much more of Ninjask's HP than probably necessary, (remove comma) but it is also incredibly predictable, which is and very exploitable by a knowledgeable opponent. A very simple and effective method of keeping the opponent opponents on their toes is to avoid setting up to +6 under all but the most dire situations&mdash;it might sound odd to not acquire as many boosts as possible, but once Ninjask acquires all the Speed boosts it possibly can, it's left with nothing much else to do but attempt to Baton Pass, which makes it all the easier for the opponent to nail the switch-in with a powerful attack. It is very rare that a Pokemon needs all of those Speed boosts to outpace the entirety of the opponent's team, simply boosting to the necessary level both saves PP and HP for Ninjask and makes predicting the Baton Pass all the more difficult. Moreover, it is important to note that having a Substitute up when Ninjask attempts the Baton Pass should hold priority over almost everything else, even if this means sacrificing an extra Speed boost or two in doing so. Having a Substitute active not only completely protects the Baton Pass recipient from everything barring multi-hit attacks and certain non-attacking moves that it might have otherwise struggled to switch in to into, (remove comma) but also gives it assurance against priority users and particularly fast Choice Scarf users afterwards, which effectively mitigates any Speed boosts the sweeper might have "lost" by forgoing the extra turns of boosting with Ninjask. While it isn't necessarily easy to maintain a Substitute, by mixing up the use of Protect and Substitute, rather than simply alternating between the two, Ninjask can do its recipient a much bigger favor than any extra one or two Speed boosts ever will be doing. However, it should be noted that without users of phazing or multi-hit moves already previously disposed of, these boosts are practically forfeit, as such Pokemon can quickly neutralize Ninjask or its recipient.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Ninjask's physical bulk in order for it to better take on priority attacks, with a Timid nature and 16 Speed EVs ensuring that it outpaces Aerodactyl without a boost, as well as Unburden Hitmonlee at +1. In terms of item choice, Leftovers is often preferable, as the passive recovery not only allows it Ninjask to produce more consecutive Substitutes than it would otherwise, (remove comma) but also helps put it just outside the KO range of priority attacks, such as Entei's ExtremeSpeed, by using Protect when necessary. However, due to the fact that Ninjask can very often only get gets a single opportunity chance (opportunity is repeated twice very close together) to set up, other items that can open up more opportunities to set up aren't outside the realm of possibility. Lum Berry is one such example, as this allows Ninjask to more comfortably switch into defensively-inclined Pokemon, such as Clefable, Poliwrath, and Uxie, and proceed to accumulate boosts. Mental Herb gives Ninjask a chance to neutralize a single Taunt, allowing it to pick up a few more boosts against Pokemon such as Qwilfish, though the limited pool of effective Taunt users makes this a less consistently useful option than either Leftovers or Lum Berry. As elaborated upon earlier, Ninjask has very little use for much beyond its first three moves, though this does mean so its final moveslot can be effectively tinkered with to achieve different results depending on individual necessites necessities. A STAB move, such as X-Scissor or Aerial Ace, while not realistically making Ninjask any less vulnerable to Taunt, does offer Ninjask a method of dealing damage, which can at times prove useful for picking off weakened Grass- and Fighting-types it can occasionally switch into. Roost is also technically a possibility, as it could potentially increase Ninjask's lifespan to the point which where it could attempt to pass boosts once more a second time, though but typically teams utilizing Ninjask are too fast-paced and offensive for the need to want to extend the match further this long.</p>

    <p>Since Because Ninjask is almost entirely support-based in terms of its role, it is more important to focus on what benefits the most from its abilities first and foremost, rather than supporting it, when picking partners for it. The most appropriate partners for this role are those with high immediate power and the natural bulk and/or resistances necessary to comfortably stomach a priority move or even a weaker attack when switching in, with Ninjask's Speed boosts putting them comfortably outside the range of most Speed-reliant revenge killers. Ideally, these Pokemon should retain possess good defensive synergy with Ninjask in addition to possibly resisting common coverage options, as this makes predicting the Baton Pass more difficult, (remove comma) and thereby dangerous. There are many options for this, which include Aggron, Crawdaunt, Druddigon, Durant, and Emboar, and it would be in ones best interest to utilize multiple recipients in order to diversify the potential threats to best suit various different match ups match-ups. Kabutops should be given special acknowledgment in this role, as it provides the option of Rapid Spin to give Ninjask a bigger window to set up mid-game. Lastly, and while it might seem excessive, dual screens support is a very realistic option for Swords Dance variants of Ninjask&mdash;passing a Swords Dance boost in addition to the standard Speed boosts can very often be game-ending if executed properly, and thus very much worth the investment in dual screens. Uxie is the ideal partner for this role, as it can quickly set up screens, provide Stealth Rock support, and get out of the way via Memento, efficiently setting the stage for Ninjask to set up safely.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With a Pokemon as single-minded and linear as Ninjask, expecting it to do anything more than its one designated job is optimistic to say the least. Options to try to make use of its abilities in an offensive manner, such as a Choice Band or offensive Swords Dance set, could be utilized to some extent, though in the end, Ninjask makes for a very mediocre sweeper on its own. Essentially, the one other option worth considering would be more a matter of context, (remove comma) rather than a different move or set, and that would be its use in using Ninjask on a dedicated Baton Pass team. While Ninjask is generally better off serving as a means to of supporting a powerful sweeper in the RU tier, it does remain the single best Speed booster for dedicated Baton Pass teams, which makes it a staple on such formats. However, due to a variety of factors, including a noticeable lack of strong Baton Pass support and teammates, this strategy is typically inadvisable under most circumstances.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Ninjask wears itself down to the point where it can be picked off by nearly anything while fulfilling its role, Pokemon that are capable of inhibiting it from successfully passing its boosts are the most accurate examples of best counters. The most solid, as well as the most obvious, is phazing are phazers, as Pokemon such as Steelix and Mandibuzz are capable of completely preventing Ninjask from supporting its teammates. Contact-based phazing moves from Pokemon such as Druddigon and Poliwrath fall into this category, but their low PP, imperfect accuracy, and inability to phaze through Substitute makes make them substantially less effective. What's more, Haze Cryogonal can similarly neutralize Ninjask's boosts, (remove comma) while also threatening it with a STAB Ice Beam, though its susceptibility to Toxic and inability to remove Substitute without attacking makes it possible to be played around. Qwilfish, being the premier Taunt user of the tier, is capable of restricting the number of boosts Ninjask can accumulate, as well as threatening to cripple the Baton Pass recipient with Thunder Wave if Ninjask fails to acquire a Substitute beforehand. Multi-hit move users, such as Cincinno Cinccino, Crustle, Piloswine, and Rhydon, are capable of circumventing Substitute and hitting both Ninjask and the recipient hard. Stealth Rock is naturally inhibiting to Ninjask, as it shaves off half of its HP upon every switch-in, restricting it to only one opportunity to set up at best. Moreover, by simply applying consistent offensive pressure to Ninjask, it is put in a very difficult position to safely pass off its boosts to a sweeper.</p>


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  24. col49

    col49 what.
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    awesome, thanks melvni :)
  25. Oglemi

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