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Ninjask Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by The Reptile, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. The Reptile

    The Reptile CELEBRATE
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    [​IMG]
    Ninjask


    61 HP / 90 Atk / 45 Def / 50 SpA / 50 SpD / 160 Spe

    Speed Boost: Speed increases at end of the turn.
    Infiltrator:The Pokemon bypasses the foe's Light Screen, Reflect, Mist, and Safeguard. (DW) (Not Available)

    Level Up Moves: (Notable Moves in Bold)
    Show Hide

    - Bug Bite
    - Scratch
    - Harden
    - Leech Life
    - Sand-Attack
    5 Leech Life
    9 Sand-Attack
    14 Fury Swipes
    19 Mind Reader
    20 Double Team
    20 Fury Cutter
    20 Screech
    25 Swords Dance
    31 Slash
    38 Agility
    45 Baton Pass
    52 X-Scissor

    Unique Nincade Level-up moves
    25 False Swipes
    31 Mud-Slap
    38 Metal Claw
    45 Dig


    TM/HM Moves: (Notable Moves in Bold)
    Show Hide

    - Hone Claws
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power
    - Sunny Day
    - Hyper Beam
    - Protect
    - Frustration
    - SolarBeam
    - Return
    - Dig
    - Shadow Ball
    - Double Team
    - Sandstorm
    - Aerial Ace
    - Facade
    - Rest
    - Attract
    - Thief
    - Round
    - False Swipes
    - Giga Impact
    - Flash
    - Sword Dance
    - Struggle Bug
    - X-Scissor
    - Swagger
    - U-Turn
    - Substitute
    - Cut


    Egg Moves: (Notable Moves in Bold)
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    - Bug Bite
    - Bug Buzz
    - Endure
    - Faint Attack
    - Final Gambit
    - Gust
    - Night Slash
    - Silver Wind


    Ninjask is known for one thing and one thing only - Baton Passing. He's a key player in Baton Pass teams, being able to pass down Speed Boost along side with Attack Boosts. This is all thanks to his gigantic 160 base speed, being outsped by only Deoxys-S, who is in Ubers. He also has a usable base 90 attack, but it's not that great. He is VERY stealth rock weak, losing 50% of his HP every time he switches in. Not only that, but he's very fragile, with 61/45/50 defenses, although he can sponge some fighting-type attacks if he has to.


    Sets

    Baton Pass
    248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SpA)
    Leftovers/Focus Sash
    - Substitute/Protect
    - Sword Dance/Hone Claws/Agility
    - Baton Pass
    - X-Scissor

    Probably Ninjasks best set. I prefer Leftovers and Substitute over Focus Sash and Protect mainly because I like getting multiple boost out of my ninjask, and sub grants the chance to pass down a substitute. However, Protect prevents priority from ruining your day, and focus sash is best if you want a for sure +2 Atk up. Sword Dance should be what you're running for this, unless you run a bunch of pokemon that have low accuracy moves. Agility if you REALLY want to go fast, but pretty redundant with Speed Boost. Keep in mind that you don't need to pass down an attack boost in order to be successful. There are many pokemon that can outright destroy everything with a speed boost, such as Absol. X-Scissor just in-case you need to kill something. 248 HP just because that gives you an odd numbered HP value, letting you switch in twice if rocks are up.

    Choice Band
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    Choice Band
    - U-Turn
    - X-Scissor
    - Aerial Ace/Return
    - Night Slash/Metal Claw

    Uses decent base 90 Atk, and with a godly base 160 base Spe, you make for an interesting revenge killer. U-Turn for scouting, X-Scissor for main STAB. Aerial Ace is secondary STAB, but you should be spamming X-Scissor anyways. Return can be used for 102 BP attack. Night Slash because you have no other options. Metal Claw can be used for Rock-type, but 50 BP is underwhelming. No HP to keep HP odd. Not the best set, but it is viable.

    Final Gambit
    252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SpA)
    Leftovers
    - Final Gambit
    - Protect
    - Aerial Ace/Return
    - X-Scissor

    Can deal 326 damage to any pokemon, and thanks to it's amazing speed, it's most likely going to land it. Protect if a scarfer is out in order to get a Speed Boost. Rest of the moves are filler, really, as you shouldn't be using them. Choice Scarf can be used instead always get a Final Gambit, but Protect usually gives you enough speed anyways. REALLY gimmicky set.
  2. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
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    I've found Ninjask to be pretty mediocre tbh. Final Gambit is admitted interesting, and actually so is CB, but for either to work even close to effectively (due to Final Gambit and U-turn being the main moves) you need reaaally reliable rapid spin support. Of course as Shedinja's one and only proponent I really shouldn't complain. The other problem is that he really can't come in on anything, save fighting attacks, but even Sawk carries Stone Edge. Obviously as a lead, both these issues are solved, but he's so predictably obvious there that he can't do any real damage.
  3. TROP

    TROP *tips fedora*
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    I'll be honest on this one,never thought someone besides me would even try to use a FG Ninjask.

    Also doubt band is even worth using when something like Pinsir does it better.
  4. The Reptile

    The Reptile CELEBRATE
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    What smith said is veeeeeery true, spin support is a must for Ninjask, and sadly our spinners are less than stellar. However, I disagree slightly with Sawk, you can switch on one that is locked into CC. Sadly, Stone Edge does rape his face off.

    As for the lead position, it is very predictable, sadly. However, I do think he is definitely at least decent in the tier, even if he doesn't pass a sword dance or hone claws, he can pass down +1 Speeds, which is godly on certain pokemon (i.e. Absol).

    CB Ninjask is an ok revenge killer. Definitely not something that should be used, but it is something that he can do.

    EDIT: Also, how good do you think Ninjask is as a Sun-Setter? I haven't used him as a sun setter at all, but I would imagine he would be a good lead for Sunny Day teams. The only thing I think keeps it back is it's 4x Steath Rock weakness.
  5. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    This thing gets Final Gambit? LOL.

    Anyway, Ninjask atm is pretty underwhelming, especially since everything is designed to remove stat boosts to beat Gorebyss. Having a 4x SR weakness definitely doesn't help Ninjask's case at all
  6. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Honestly Ninjask is really annoying but a lot of people are carrying Roar or Whirlwind or Dragon Tail so even if you SD up you're going to lose your boosts (since you're not OHKOing Lickilicky or Camerupt with just X-scissor unless your opponent plays like a twat and lets you get to +6 before attempting to do SOMETHING). It's best if you don't use it as a lead, and soften up your opponent's obvious checks for BP with other Pokemon, then pass and sweep mid-game. However at that point why not just use a normal team instead of relying on gimmicky pass teams. If I'm going to run BP, I'd much rather run something like Leafeon who can actually use SD boosts and the pass them off to other things if a Weezing or the like shows up.
  7. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    my current team is raped hard by ninjask rn, ngl

    But yeah, phazers + SR are so common lately that I'm really wondering about any effectiveness that Ninjask is going to have at all. I've actually seen stuff like Golem carrying Rock Blast simply for Ninjask, so that's something to watch out for. Maybe it's just me but it seems really hard to get a BP off, especially early game when the opponent still has every trick in their bag still. CB Ninjask is fairly lolworthy, and I've never seen a Final Gambit Ninjask but I wouldn't expect much out of that either.

    Is it just me, or is anyone else more afraid of the Speed boosts that this can pass moreso than the SDs and such? I mean, there have been a few matches where I was like "pfft I can handle him BPing to Emboar" but then they go to say Jynx on the Waterfall and then my team is wrecked because +1 Jynx outspeeds my only Choice Scarf user. ~_~
  8. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    Whenever Ninjask is seen in team preview, any decent player is going to be on their toes. Ninjask really isnt that great especially as it loses any element of surprise, esecially if your team has some slow powerhouses like Emboar. Most teams have a phazer so it isnt really that hard to remove Ninjask and force stealth rock on it next time it switches in.
    The CB and FG sets are much more gimmicky and I dont really see either having much use apart from maybe a one off kill.
  9. Sabinfrost

    Sabinfrost

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    Ninjask is an annoying lead if you're unprepared,

    Really there is only one viable Ninjask set, and it's the most annoying.

    Sash

    Protect
    SD
    X-Scissor
    Baton Pass


    Lead off against common threats, protect and instantly pass out the speed boost if you can't deal with it, otherwise SD and hand out some extra boosts. You can sub over x-scissor, but after a SD you can demolish mespirit/musharna/gardevoir who are all relatively common with x-scissor.
  10. Axa

    Axa

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    Metal Claw shouldn't even be an option on the CB set IMO, since a neutral X-Scissor is more powerful. It's only an option against, what, Deliberd and Articuno?
  11. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    hazards and priority destroys you with this set, thus showing even more that ninjask is hard to use, just use the standard lefties substitute+protect set, batonpass was really strong when smeargle was still down here
  12. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

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    In theory CB Ninjask should be good, but it is destroyed by rocks, phasing, phasing+rocks and anything with a decent defense that resists both its STABS.

    BP is predictable, and easily countered, though its good at what it does, and is one of the best speed/atk passers in NU.
  13. Sabinfrost

    Sabinfrost

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    In theory. It is fast with decent attack.
  14. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

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    Yes. but the fact that it is 4x weak to rocks means that the opponent can switch in something that resists, and Ninjask is pretty much in a pickle, because it cannot really switch out due to the fact it loses that seccond 50% when it switch in next. Good choice mons should be able to switch in and out relatively easily, ninjask can't really, at all.
    Unless revenge killing, but with rocks, it gets one revenge kill.

    Reliable spinner helps with this obv.
  15. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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    I knew there was a reason I'm still using Roar on my Camerupt...

    Yeah, I hate this guy, and I've had more than one experience in the past where I've been completely swept because I didn't have anything to phaze out/revenge the 'mon he BP'd to (that's really more of my bad playing than my opponent's good playing though).
    On the flip side, there was one hilarious time where I used Ninjask in conjunction with Chioce Banded Emboar. Ever seen a Pokemon have over 2000 Atk? Good times. (again this only happened during a match against a terrible player, but hey, it's still discussion)

    He's definitely something that we should all be somewhat prepared for, although I mean that only towards the Baton Passer; the Choice Band and Final Gambit sets aren't common enough. Then again, just having Stealth Rock and a decent priority user is probably enough to kill this thing off.
  16. voidzone

    voidzone

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    I think BP Ninjask recieves a bit more punishment in this thread, than
    it deserves.

    Yep, 4x SR Weak is a bad thing, really , which means you either have
    a decent and reliable Rapid Spinner on the team or you have to lead with the Ninjafly. Both are not impossible things to do.

    Ninjasks biggest downside is its predictability, since it screams Baton Pass to the face of every opponent and pulls out phazers like a magnet, the two other sets mentoined might catch someone by suprise, but I wouldn't expect them to be overly effective. But perhaps I'm wrong on that

    The key to BP successfully with Jask is to play around its weaks :

    - dedicate your team to BP. Throw in Jask "just because" on a "normal"
    Team and expect it to be effective is somewhat stupid
    See the advantage : Ninjask immediately pulls out your opponents
    BP counter, handle it and then keep up your strategy with your
    other BPers

    - BPing to someone that can't be forced out (such as Suction-Cups Cradily)
    this will most likely have your opponent waste a turn trying to phaze
    the switch out

    - don't overdo it, trying to get multiple SDs or stuff like that only
    gives your opponent more opportunities to counter what you're doing

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think Jask is an excellent Pokemon or
    BP in general is an outstanding strategy, but it isn't that bad/easy to counter either, if a bit of
    planning is done before.
  17. Brammi

    Brammi

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    Ok honestly, why have I been seeing so many of them?
  18. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    ^ not every team runs a phazer or a taunter so getting a free speed or even a sword dance boost is nice and a way way to sweep.
  19. Brammi

    Brammi

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    But it sucks SOOOOOO Bad. It's like not good at all.
  20. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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    You realize the NU ladder on PO has about 20 good players on it (30 at the most), and you rarely battle any of them, right? The chances of you seeing things that suck are very high.
    O_o

    I've seen a lot of Ninjask as well, some even used on Baton Pass chain teams, which are annoying as hell if you lose your phazer.
  21. DestinyUnknown

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    ChaoticaMortis is right at that. Top 30 on NU ladder is mostly the few good players there are and their alts.

    The good thing about ninjask is that whenever i see it i assume my opponent has no skill whatsoever, so even if not carrying a taunter/phazer i get the win easily.

    However, if its used right against a team without roar it can wreck shit, but i agree with tennisace that i will use a normal team instead. If Smeargle was down here BP would be more viable but to be honest, bp teams are very lame.
  22. Lady Shinki

    Lady Shinki

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    This thing is why I run Rock Blast on my SR setter. Frankly, that's often enough to stop Ninjask right in its tracks since passing a speed boost vs. any of the Sturdy Rockers in the tier is useless (They all have Rock Blast and the bulk to tank unboosted hits from any of the physical pokemon in the tier and hit back for a lot of damage, and Sturdy lets them get in a nice Earthquake vs. the Gorebyss/Jynx/whatever they pass to). Ninjask is just not threatening at all as it needs to get the SD+Speed combo to pass, and there are offensive ways to deal with Ninjask that don't require phazing that are just plain better.
  23. Zarco

    Zarco

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    You think an SD sweeper set would work on ninjask?
  24. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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    Most offensive Ninjask aren't going to be doing much... Yeah, they have a ton of speed, and have a solid Atk stat after a boost, but their coverage amounts to Aerial Ace, X-Scissor, Dig, Double-Edge/Return, Metal Claw, and Night Slash. And it's not like people are going to leave something in that's weak to Ninjask when it first comes out, which means it will probably have to muscle its way past something that resists its attacks or has a large Def stat before it can cut away at the rest of the team. Why try sweeping with that when you can pass to something with amazing coverage like Emboar?
  25. Sabinfrost

    Sabinfrost

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    It's really weak to priority with some huge coverage holes and 4x rock weak. Offensively it wont be doing a lot, you may be able to get a kill with it, but if you're lucky enough to manage that you'll likely be forced to pass the boost out to another team mate. Not saying it's impossible to sweep with Ninjask, it's fast and has a powerful set up move with decent attack, it just has a lot of checks.

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